This game has the biggest freaking grind!

OMFG! This game has the biggest grind ever. Why cant i unlock all of the skills like beta! It takes foever to level! etc. etc.

Well people im sick and tired of hearing these kind of people as well as many others will agree with me. But there is NO grind. A grind is something like where its takes 1 week just to get from lvl 1-2 then about a year to get from 74-75. Sure i may be making those a bit high but thats what a grind is. If you think getting from lvl 1-20 within a month, or even a couple days, of gameplay is a grind, or unlocking all the skills. No your not a noob your not a crybaby... YOURE LAZY. Theres a difference between grinding and laziness!

I think anet has done a great thing and held true to there promise about the "no grind" cause there is no grind. O well thats just a kitties opinion.

I would like a source, is this from dictionary.com? urbandictionary.com? Or just your own values which don't agree with other people?

Who are you to call people names? I didn't know you became the Starkfist of Reality, let alone the creator himself. People have different lives, different values, different perspectives. Bill Gates wipes his behind with thousands, but a hobo on the street would kill for it. Does that make either one of them wrong?

Not really, grinding is doing something that you don't like to achieve something you want, that is the definition without giving specific values. Laziness is the exact same thing, only that in our society, laziness is viewed as bad because of how our society it setup in that you have to do what you have to do to survive.

Indeed, just an opinion.

I think this topic has been done to death and doesn't need yet another thread dedicated. Not only I'm I tired of hearing people bitch about the "grind", I'm tired of hearing people bitch about the people who bitch about the "grind".

You must be one very very lazy boy

I'm torn between thinking your just making joke threads, or that your serious. Neither are a good thing.

They are called trolls. Please do not feed the trolls.

Ahem, ok... I'm just going to delete this I think,

Must love sarcasm in the title then the actual content, but...

This is another one that is just going to bring out the arguments again...

I know my own commentary below is not going to help...

And for that, I do apologize... -_-;

The problem lies in that most of his posts are similar in perspective, leading me to think he might be serious.

anyone who crys over grinding needs to play FFXI seriously.

PARALAX, my friends. Paralax.

Oh yes on a random note, in my opinion, and final word on this subject...

I believe an offical statement by Arena Net on this issue to clarify meaning of the advertisements that were pointed out to me in another topic may help this a bit.

Who knows, either side of the argument may be wrong, but it would be better than squabbling over it more, and forgive me if this has done nothing but make it worse, please, I implore you, don't rant and rave due to what I have stated, its just a suggestion...

Agreed. I came to this game from FFXI and I'm finding the game nice and simple.

Chill out.

Hey, sometimes even real life has some grind. For example, finding a good job may take a while. More than 100 hours? Probably. So looking for a job good be considered grinding.

I'm going to open a thread and bitch about this. It's outrageous.

And hey, I'm still a Town Dweller. The qualification under my nick will change only if I post a lot. It's a grind again.

On a second thought, I'm going to open a thread and bitch about this before bitching about anything else.

Hey, know what? Writing means I have to type one letter at a time, its friggin boring. Arenanet didnt warn me about this on GW's box. Actually I think it can be considered grinding as well.

On a third thought, I'm going to open a thread and bitch about this before bitching about other stuff.

Oh, and one last thing. Whining could be considered grind, so be careful you whiners! Grind is always around the corner, you never know!

Heh.

Wow... I must say... wow... o_o;

I have to also say cute, and interesting points...

It is all a matter of how you look at what you do, if you feel it is tedious, it may be considered a 'grind', as you pointed out above... Very unique, Kudos o_o;

Do people play other MMO before this game? come on.. There is little grind here.
FFXI it take 2week to gain one level. GW takes 2 weeks to reach lvl 20.
FFXI takes 62 people in group to gain access to one of the big boss area. People perpare and setup for several days before they do quest like this in FFXI.
Please don't tell me GW is hard to form a group.
It is not difficult. If you can't get invited you create your party. I'm sure most people are heading in similar direction. Just be more social and make friends.

About the "grind". Until this game came out "grinding" was always known as going to the same places and camping monsters/clearing out the same monsters to increase your XP/Level. It was about finding the places with the most and/or easiest monsters and killing them for days on end for the pure pursuit of getting your character to the level cap as quickly as possible.

Then, along came guild wars - a game that was so bold as to say that there is no grind. Anyone who's came from games like Diablo/Everquest/any other game of this nature should easily be able to identify that there is no "grind" in any sense of the original meaning as the levelling in this game just "happens" as you play through it. At no point should anyone feel compelled to go to any hunting grounds and fight to level up...it's just not necessary. Play through the story and you'll level up without much thought - and, hell, once you hit a certain point you're automatically levelled to the level cap anyways.

What Guild Wars also brought was a bunch of PvP only people who wanted to just get into the arena's and fight. Since the game misrepresented itself these PvPers thought that they could jump right in and use all the skills in the game right from day one. The PvPers didn't like this and started calling the action of collecting skills a "grind". The word "grind" was picked up so quickly because it is a convenient way to attack Anet for putting this system in place and a way to use it as leverage to "compel" them to change it - due to "false advertising". While it is a considerable effort for people who don't want to even look at the PvE game to collect these skills, it still doesn't excuse the misuse of the word "grind".

If any existing term matches the action of getting all the skills - the elite skills that is, it's FARMING. Farming has always been known as going to the same locations and hoping that the right equipment drops from the monsters you kill. Over and over again, going to the same regions, killing the same things, just hoping that the random drops you get are suitable for your character or suitable to sell. The reason this term kinda matches the quest for elite skills is because you're going back to the same regions hoping that the right boss appears. Same kind of concept - just to a different end.

-----

Also of note. When Anet opened up all the skills for the beta they made it pretty clear that it was just a measure to allow them to test the balance of all the skills. It was obvious that they never intended to leave it that way. Plus, anything that they do in the beta should not be used as comparison in the final product.

Dear Kitty,

Cute avatar...

But for the love of God why the hell did you have to make another thread dealing with this crap? One of these days I'll be safe, where nobody can find me, nobody and their goddam grind threads!

Synncial77, you're just arguing semantics about slang. Grinding seems fairly interchangeable with farming at this point in terms of speaking about Guild Wars.

I highly doubt that anyone who really has gotten themselves fully ready for pvp is saying that the grind doesn't exist :-/

Oh well, Gaile said that there were a lot more than the listed changes coming up in the next update which would reduce pvp grind considerably. Hopefully that's true.

There is no point whatsoever creating threads about this. Numerous people with opposing PoV had already been there and done it, and all its going to do is keep the fire burning, so cool it.

*yawn*

yes of course there is a grind. btw why make a thread that says how horrible the grind is if you yourself do not realize how horrible the grind us? not exactly being honest with your thread titles there

anyhow since i have already addressed this issue in another thread on this site, i shall now quote myself since the comments there about Guild Wars' grind is applicable to this thread also

I came to this game from Lineage 2, this game is a nice relaxing stroll in the park in terms of grinds :P

So if people don't play that game, they are not entitled to voice their opinions? That's almost as bad as racism.

Link please.

Which is why the advertisement of a grindless game makes people buy the game?

Not true, it is the rather blatant lame distribution of skills and runes that makes PVPers mad. The fact that elites are only post-ascenscion, the fact that sometimes they are random, and the fact that runes are an important part of the game yet remain a random drop at chance really pisses people off. You didn't see PVPers whine about grind when riverside was alive. Rather, you pissed them off by nerfing if. Farming is never a problem, because like the kiddies say, the process is quick. PVPers accept that they have to put up with some work. But when you do 50 runs for only a chance to get a superior rune, you might as well pack your bags and hope HoH gives you one. Explorables and such have "upgraded" drops, but anyone who wants to be competitive will call bullshit. A focused area of high chance drops is always desired over that percent spread over the whole god damn world.

You can make a horse go to a lake, you can even force the horse to drink water, but if it's dumb, it'll still die from being thirsty. But hey, you try anyways.

^ Xellos has some good points. Anyway, I'd have to say the GW system is not perfect, and definitely needs some changes. That's all I have to say.

No one expects the game to be flawless, but when the developers start listening to people who have no idea how the game truely is, there is a problem. The game must cater to casual players, but to do that, you must first cater to the hardcore players, because the hardcore players, are the players that won't take anything less then perfection as satisfyable. Satisfy the thirst of the hardcore players, and the casual players needs will be easily visible as long as you make your changes based on benefitting everyone as a whole. You must take your perspectives from those who understand the game, and then use that knowledge to help every group in the community.

This game is celebrated for PvP and for its Skill System. Every review on earth has underlined that. I'm persuaded the "blatant lame" distribution of skills Xellos is talking about is totally false. The point is: skills are extremely balanced, so that its nearly impossible to build the perfect nuker/tanker/healer. There is always a "counter". If this is "a blatant lame" distribution of skills, then be it. I hope we're going to find this blatantlamery in many games to come.

Talking about Elite Skills, you would be astonished in knowing how little some major guilds use them and win anyway

Advertised. Not celebrated. Are you a hardcore PVP player? Are you even someone who plays enough to win tombs? Do you understand the game mechanics like Ensign, Blackace, Rex? If not, how do you know the game has achieved this advertisement. The game is great, sure, but standards rise very quickly in this age.

If you believe reviews of idiots who get paid to play a game and not even beat it over people who paid to play the game and even researched the game to the point where they understand the game in terms of gameplay better then the developers themselves, you seriously have issues.

I'm persuaded that you have no idea what your talking about.

And OBVIOUSLY that was exactly what I was talking about.

Pride doesn't help your arguement.

Major guilds? Haha. You don't even know who I am. Don't try to use the old "THEY can do it" card, because if you don't belong to "THEY", and as a plus, you don't even know if I'm part of "THEY", you need to seriously stop trying to argue. You'll get humilated if I happen to be one of these "Major" guild members. Status means nothing in a forum, your logic dictates your position.

I dont have issues, and hope youre mature enough not to offend people in public forums.

Secondly, basing on your answer, it seems you're whining about the game being too balanced? And then you bitch (in your last ten posts or so) about the fact that this game wont last because everybody grinds and builds unbalanced characters? Make up your mind my dear! That's hilarious. Keep it going man, it's gonna be fun.

Third, I'm not in a "major" (maybe you dont like this term, do you?) guild but of course I know someone who is, and I prevent you from saying some crap like "yeeeeeeaaaahh..of course". I dont care if you believe or not, that's my word in a public forum, feel free to make your choice.

Cheers, and please, be more polite next time, will you? Thanks.

[QUOTE=Xellos]So if people don't play that game, they are not entitled to voice their opinions? That's almost as bad as racism.
I was compairing a game I thought people would know,I'm not trying to flame anyone-think of it as pointing out game with actual grinding to GW.and how the hell is compairing a game as bad as racism,bashing a game is nothing as bad as bashing a person so don't tell me I'm bad over a simple compairison. If you don't understand what I mean I'll try to break it down alittle FFXI=very slow paced game,every class has to play the same way:example-every paladin is forced to sub warrior regardless of any other sub,the leveling takes WAY longer,I don't know how much better I can explain that-in GW you can get lv20 in a week easy if you try.
so basicly you got slow game Vs GW,if you like FFXI by all means enjoy FFXI,this isn't a flame just a suggestion that playing FFXI might show you how easy GW is. (I can pretty much guarentee,if they tried FFXI they would agree,not that they HAVE to but it would definatly show them what a real grind is)

if in any way your still offended or think I'm being as disrespectful as a racist I expect a detailed reply

Then don't undermine people's intelligence and opinions. Using reviews as your support has as much credibility as a 16 year old shopping girls credit card. 0.

Like I said, reading comprehension. Honestly, just read over it and tell me phrase by phrase what you interpret. I can't translate everything for you.

Ah, so I lost you. Want a step-by-step guide to my arguement or something?

Yeah, it is. Because your showing the whole forum you can't follow point A to point B then back to point A. Nice going.

Knowing someone means squatt, you haven't given a name, nor has this person supported you apparently. Secondly, how do you prevent me from saying YEAAAHH OF COURSE, even though I have no idea what the heck that means, since it's not really in context with the post.

Before I begin, indents and paragraphs are your friends.

Does that mean people have to play it? Does that mean if some hobo had to live in poverty, a family on welfare has no right to complain about their own financial state? Please, everything is a scale of reference. Stop giving defined variables, that's the biggest arrogance anyone can show.

If you tried, you would've been warned. Secondly, who said you were flaming. I don't even see the point of what you said, I simply stated that if that's how you view it, your basically a racist in gamer culture.

No, but telling people that your game is the standard of grinding and that people should all refer and agree to this is bullshit. I don't give a damn if you decided to play FF 11 and took a year to realize it sucked, that doesn't mean I can't complain that Guild Wars has problems of it's own. Would you go up to Mario Tennis and not complain at all just because it's alot better then Pong?

Say you killed someone. I killed a hundred people. Does that make you any less of a murderer? Sorry, you still killed someone. You still have to deal with the law. The sentence might not be the same, but you still have to deal with it. Same with fixing grind. Small amounts of grind still must be fixed. Unless you like killers running around your streets.

Yeah, your right. Basketball is easy, since I can beat a kid at his fisherprice hoop. Obviously I'm good, even though I can't even touch Yao Mings head.

I wouldn't have it any other way.

Well, it's kind of late now, and I'm not interested in the conversation anymore. You're aggressive and quite rude, frankly. Maybe you're nervous for something. I'm sorry for you, man. Really.

Your answer was not even an answer, was a 360 degrees attack versus anyone who didnt share your personal (very personal, I'd rather say) opinion.

Chill out, my dear.

Bye

Just had to say: Best post ever..

Noone forces you to play GW either.. If you think it's boring/irritating/'grind-ish', than don't play it.. Simple..

Don't know if it's been said before.. Haven't read all the posts here.. This issue is.. Unbelivable..

You really want to know what a grind is?

Reading posts like this that all anyone does is Bitch and Whine about nothing and there is no construction criticism and no one seems to be putting any goo dpoints down on what can be done to resolve issues or make the game more playable than it already is.

I say, "Move along People, Nothing else to be seen here".

Meaning? The Quote?..

Find these debates quite hillarious.. Had to kill some time, read down to that post.. Thought it was quite good.. Just wanted to qoute it!..

I'm not interested in any personal attacks.. Don't know how your post was meant.. But I'm not interested in any fighting..



Nope.. Will say nothing more.. Moving along..

wtf is a racist in game culture? If ffxi and WOW wern't pay to play who knows I might of kept them. Games have flaws,FFXIs were obvious example not being able to level unless you find partys,problem if you play late when noones on you sit around LFG forever and if you like being LFG for hours then fine be my guest and call me a ****ing racist. It's like take a bad game as in the quality sucks:example shit graphics,horrible econimy (FFXI had that,I sat for 30hours waiting on a Argus spawn that a japanese player beat me to because they had a faster connection). In other words you have to love shitty games to not be a game racist right,I'm suposed to pay monthly for a game I don't enjoy playing,I need to feel forced to play (I felt forced to play WorldOfWarcraft,god forbid me doing anouther million molten core runs,that my guild basicly foreced everyone to do-and don't say "who's making you farm this shit" because items were unbalanced,get a warrior in his epic MC shit with some free action potions-he'll kill whatever,whereas I didn't feel like farming 24/7 I'd be screwed. WOW and FFXI were both good games with flaws and if your somehow openminded enough to enjoy being lfg forever,or farming nonstop all the time than I guess your not a racist. If you want to keep digging at how bad grinding is or whatever your gonna say,I'll let ya know I got to level60 twice in WOW and had fun up untill the end where it became item based.
Now go play some god awfull game since you love all games,nomatter how flawed they are.
Btw I forgot to mention how bad pvp gets in WOW,you'll be doing a mission or whatever and abunch of people will kill you and sit on your corpse so you cant respawn, but your gonna say I'm suposed to like zerg pvp right-who needs skill,skill is for losers like me,go waste your time sitting on some corpse of a player,or better yet start over because I know you wont get that far,thanks to the honor system you now got gank squads that run around for the sole purpose of ganking anything in sight.

edited:afew typos but being the anal retintive bitch that you are you'll give me shit over them anyways.

Check out Spooky's new thread about grind and forum talking. Should raise some eyebrows and bring the hostility down a bit about grinds and people fighting about it over and over instead of discussing and proposing useful ideas and tips.

Actually, my point is very valid. The reason that "grinding" has become interchangable with "farming" is purely because of the Guild Wars PVP community. It's a way for the PvPers to say "you lied about there being no grind so you have to change it or we'll quit the game forever". Clearly the developers believed that "grind" applied to only gaining XP because in their advertisement they said [paraphrased] "no endless grinding to level up your character" [I can't find the original source for this but it's pretty much the idea].

Anyways, as for "constructive suggestions" I truely believe that the best solution would be to make a "Unlock All Skill" PvP Only Ladder where you could hop into the game from day 1 and have access to all the skills/weapons/runes/and so on. This specific type of character could ONLY play with this type of character and would have no contact with normal PvP or PvE players other than in chat. This way you'd have the normal server that we're used to and this UAS server for all the people who want to jump in and play.