UPDATE: My completed E/Me Air/Domination Build

Ibanezgtrsst07

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

Omicron 5

Seekers of Sanctuary

E/Me

29 May 2005 at 22:13 - 1

I know I've posted a couple threads about this. However, I think this build I made is extremely balanced. Please make some comments of what you think.

Here's the equipment
Air Wand 11-22 Dmg (20% faster skill recovery using air magic skills)

Storm Artifact +12 NRG (20% Faster skill recovery using air magic skills, 20% Faster Cast using air magic skills)

Stats:

Air Magic: 11+2
Energy Storage: 10
Domination Magic: 10
1 Pt leftover

Skills:
1. Enervating Charge
2. Lightning Orb
3. Lightning Surge (Elite)
4. Air Attunement
5. Glyph of Lesser Energy
6. Blinding Flash
7. Backfire
8. Guilt

Now here's the advantages..

1. 25% armor penetration (air magic)

2. Enervating Charge causes weakness for 18 seconds ---> much less damage by warriors/rangers

3. Lightning Surge knocks enemies down after 3 seconds. It also has a large range and only costs 10 energy to cause 90+ damage. So enemies can't escape.

4. Air Attunment gives 30% of the energy back, a big +

5. Glyph of Lesser Energy causes the next spell to cost 15 less energy. However since the max energy cost in this skill bar is 15 (backfire, blinding flash, or lightning orb) it's basically a free cast. Also, with 40% chance of instant skill recharge, about 30-50% of the skills casted will cost 0 energy.

6. Blinding Flash blinds the enemy for 9 seconds. I use this on melee classes of course. Usually I'm the first target in a PvP battle. This is the 3rd skill i cast (Air attunement + Glyph of Lesser Energy + blinding Flash = only less than 10 energy to cast) and whenever I'm low on health, I usually just cast this on everyone by me, then after I cast blinding flash, I cast lightning surge and make my great escape to regenerate health. A BIG LIFESAVER.

7. Backfire - the infamous Mesmer skill. Pretty self-explanitory. Destroys spellcasters or keeps them out of the battle for about 10 seconds. 10 Seoncs can mean win or lose. A must for any Me/x or x/Me.

8. Guilt steals 11 (with my level)to ? energy when enemy attempt to cast an offensive skill. The spell that the enemy tries to cast also fails and then guilt ends. So the enemy has x less energy, has to wait for their skill to recharge, lost the mana required to cast the spell, and is more vulnerable for attack.

Congrats to whoever is still reading to this. Here's a general summary of Pro's and Con's.

Pros:
*TONS of Hexes that tear down enemies both melee and ranged.
*DAMAGE and lots of it, many people also don't have Aeromancer armor because Pyromancers are extremely popular. So they don't have much (if any) air defense.
*EXTREMELY fast and low skill recharge and casting time. This makes for quick spamming for easy killing.
*EXCELLENT, STABLE ENERGY USAGE. I rarely ever ran out of energy. Usually by then I will be able to cast the big three (Air attunement, Glyph of Lesser energy + blinding flash). Usually when I do run out of energy, I cast Guilt and it all comes back due to 4 pip energy regeneration.
*EXTREMELY EASY TO ESCAPE. Blinding flash + Lightning Surge blinds melee characters and knocks them down, giving more than enough time to escape or making the warrior change their mind for the target.
*INTERUPTS SPELLS. Guilt and Lightning Surge interupt enemy spells.
*WORKS EXCELLENT FOR BOTH PVP AND PVE

Cons: Honestly, there aren't really cons to this build as I am really consistent in both PVP and PVE. But as we all know there is no such thing as perfection in Guild Wars. So here's the cons I've come up with.

*Lightning Surge is an exhaustion skill. Although E/x or x/E usually have at least one, this really isn't that big of a deal provided that noone's stupid and spams this spell.
*No AoE spells. Air Magic is mostly for single target elimination, However we're supposed to be calling targets anyways right?
*Could be some problems when you have no energy. Of course just sidestep (DON'T RUN. Running causes constant critical hits. Sidestep's don't). Usually I'll wait for 10 energy to cast lightning surge or if I have Glyph of Lesser Energy, I cast that and then blinding flash and I'll wait for reinforcements.
*Only 3 Offensive Straight-out damage skills. To those damage freaks this may be a problem for you. However the hexes really balance/overcome that problem, and the 40% faster skill recharge really comes in handy for this.
*No Resurrection Signet (The Main Con). As we all know Resureccting makes or breaks a PvP battle. So we don't have a rez skill so the party members may get a little pissed off.

Hope you enjoy it. This is my current skill rig right now, and it is extremely successful. Please leave some comments and if you want leave suggestions. I HIGHLY RECCOMEND YOU PEOPLE TRY THIS SKILL SETUP OUT WITH THE GEAR I LISTED. It really does wonders.

MadeInChina

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

Maryland, USA

GNYU

W/E

29 May 2005 at 22:20 - 2

Even though I don't have the game yet, by reading all your pros and cons it sounds amazing to me. I am really interested in making a ele/mes and your build so far, with all the explanations, sounds the best and, as you said, the most well-balanced character.

One question: What level are you and how easy is it for you to train solo?

Gratz on the build, I will most likely try it out!

Ibanezgtrsst07

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

Omicron 5

Seekers of Sanctuary

E/Me

29 May 2005 at 22:26 - 3

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadeInChina

Hey no prob. I'm at the max level (Level 20). Don't worry if that sounds extreme. The game isn't about leveling at all. Anyways thanks for your comment. It will take you a long time to complete the build though, as Lightning Surge can only be stolen from The Signet of Elements in The Dragon's Lair (fairly later in the game), and I bought Guilt at Drokar's Forge (After the Dragon's Lair mission.)

I don't train solo, other than the beginning of the game. Elementalist's aren't really the classes that one can really solo with. I usually get in groups with people or get henchmen.

I got to level 20 pretty early in the game (Most people do anyways), and if you don't, don't worry about it. Later in the game you'll do a series of missions (I won't spoil anything for you) and you'll automatically reach the max level if you didn't already.

Anyways thanks for the comment man.

mikeydavison

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

30 May 2005 at 15:13 - 4

I was looking to start an Aeromancer build, and this looks as good as any. I wasn't sure about a secondary profession, but you make a pretty good case for a Mesmer. Thanks for this comprehensive and thoughtful discussion of your build.

Minwanabi

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2005

Michigan

30 May 2005 at 15:29 - 5

Ok, I'm going to give this build a blow by blow, and keep in mind that this will be in regards to competitive PvP (such as Tombs and GvG)

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2. Enervating Charge causes weakness for 18 seconds ---> much less damage by warriors/rangers

This will cause weakness for no longer than 2-3 seconds, as it will be removed near instantaneously.

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3. Lightning Surge knocks enemies down after 3 seconds. It also has a large range and only costs 10 energy to cause 90+ damage. So enemies can't escape.

Builds know there's going to be a spike air ele somewhere, and therefore as soon as a surge is shouted over voice chat, the prot monk will instantly do one of two things, if not both. First, drop protective spirit, your damage is reduced to ~50 per spell. Next, they'll use reversal of fortune, your surge will do no damage, that character will be healed, and therefore even more ready for your next spells.

Quote: . Blinding Flash blinds the enemy for 9 seconds. I use this on melee classes of course. Usually I'm the first target in a PvP battle. This is the 3rd skill i cast (Air attunement + Glyph of Lesser Energy + blinding Flash = only less than 10 energy to cast) and whenever I'm low on health, I usually just cast this on everyone by me, then after I cast blinding flash, I cast lightning surge and make my great escape to regenerate health. A BIG LIFESAVER. Read above. No group worth anything will leave a physical damage doer blinded or weak faster than it takes to hotkey their name and press number 1.

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7. Backfire - the infamous Mesmer skill. Pretty self-explanitory. Destroys spellcasters or keeps them out of the battle for about 10 seconds. 10 Seoncs can mean win or lose. A must for any Me/x or x/Me. Yawn. Will be removed instantly if it matters. Any half retarded group will either remove it, or be winning by enough that 10s doesn't matter.

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8. Guilt steals 11 (with my level)to ? energy when enemy attempt to cast an offensive skill. The spell that the enemy tries to cast also fails and then guilt ends. So the enemy has x less energy, has to wait for their skill to recharge, lost the mana required to cast the spell, and is more vulnerable for attack. Far too situational of a spell. In 90% of the cases, the mage targeted by this will wait the few seconds for it to wear off. The rest of the time it will be removed in seconds after being called over voice chat.

All in all, you're trying to do way too much. You don't have enough damage to spike anyone, and you don't have enough caster shut down, no energy denial, no interrupts. Too many of your skills are defensive, you need to rely on your team. Next, you need to decide what the heck you want to do in a fight. Either play a mesmer, and run with more caster shutdown, energy denial, interrupts, etc, or play a spike air ele, and run with surge, orb, strike, do so with 2-3 other spike air eles, coordinate your attacks and watch them fall.

CareBearPK

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

30 May 2005 at 16:39 - 6

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minwanabi

Ok, I'm going to give this build a blow by blow, and keep in mind that this will be in regards to competitive PvP (such as Tombs and GvG)

This will cause weakness for no longer than 2-3 seconds, as it will be removed near instantaneously.

Builds know there's going to be a spike air ele somewhere, and therefore as soon as a surge is shouted over voice chat, the prot monk will instantly do one of two things, if not both. First, drop protective spirit, your damage is reduced to ~50 per spell. Next, they'll use reversal of fortune, your surge will do no damage, that character will be healed, and therefore even more ready for your next spells.

Read above. No group worth anything will leave a physical damage doer blinded or weak faster than it takes to hotkey their name and press number 1.

Yawn. Will be removed instantly if it matters. Any half retarded group will either remove it, or be winning by enough that 10s doesn't matter.

Far too situational of a spell. In 90% of the cases, the mage targeted by this will wait the few seconds for it to wear off. The rest of the time it will be removed in seconds after being called over voice chat.

All in all, you're trying to do way too much. You don't have enough damage to spike anyone, and you don't have enough caster shut down, no energy denial, no interrupts. Too many of your skills are defensive, you need to rely on your team. Next, you need to decide what the heck you want to do in a fight. Either play a mesmer, and run with more caster shutdown, energy denial, interrupts, etc, or play a spike air ele, and run with surge, orb, strike, do so with 2-3 other spike air eles, coordinate your attacks and watch them fall. Owned.

Also, consider running Gale. It cant be removed or anything and it does slow them down. I love this spell to keep warriors off me for a bit or just have fun in relic games where I can knock the runner down every few seconds (I have 40% faster reocvery aswell). Its a staple imo in any air build.

And you have no other attacks really. Most damage your going to hit for is about 125, if you surge+orb. Try and get strike or javalin in there.

Go farm and get a superior rune of air. That will help a lot.

Another thing; after reading that post above and you decide what you want to do, if you chosoe damage I would drop the mesmer and get monk. And just use ressurect as your only skill. This will free up tons if attrib points also, so maybe consider bring along a ward with around a lvl 8 or so earth atrib.

Minwanabi

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2005

Michigan

30 May 2005 at 16:47 - 7

Quote:

Also, consider running Gale. It cant be removed or anything and it does slow them down. I love this spell to keep warriors off me for a bit or just have fun in relic games where I can knock the runner down every few seconds (I have 40% faster reocvery aswell). Its a staple imo in any air build.

Yeah, gale is a fantastic snare, only thing to watch for is that you have two exhaustion spells, those can stack up really quickly.

Quote:

Another thing; after reading that post above and you decide what you want to do, if you chosoe damage I would drop the mesmer and get monk. And just use ressurect as your only skill. This will free up tons if attrib points also, so maybe consider bring along a ward with around a lvl 8 or so earth atrib. Definitely. Another great skill from the monk line is Essence bond, it'll help a lot with your energy management, and either bring that, or stick with /me and bring inspiration energy recovery moves.

Oh, and thanks...

Quote:

Owned.

CareBearPK

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

30 May 2005 at 17:17 - 8

Quote:

Definitely. Another great skill from the monk line is Essence bond, it'll help a lot with your energy management, and either bring that, or stick with /me and bring inspiration energy recovery moves. True. I think they can get into that essecne/life bond combo thing. I dont really know what it does, but I heard it was good. Someone from your guild was in a half guild/half PUG with me and he showed us that, though I didnt really understand it.

Ibanezgtrsst07

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

Omicron 5

Seekers of Sanctuary

E/Me

30 May 2005 at 21:37 - 9

First off, 99% of people don't even realize that they're Lightning Surged I've never had the spell fail before. Second of all, the only disadvantage this skill has against is a ranger due to their high elemental resistance.

Guilt being far too situational?? Are you on crack?? The game is all about using skills. 90% of battles involve a spellcaster.

Putting Gale in there may be a good snare, but it will take up another skill slot which is where Lightning Surge compromises by having both high damage (Least I've done is 50 damage and it was against a ranger, and it knocks them down so the allies take care of them.)

By the way, blinding flash does last 9 seconds in battle, I was able to blind several warriors/rangers and was able to stand still.

Monks are usually the first targeted enemies anyways, so they're far too busy trying to save their own asses than others, backfire backs it up and forces them to be more sparingly of their skill usage whentheyre being under attack.

With the 40% faster skil recovery, I'm able to frequently cast these spells you consider "weak" even though I can pop in 80-90 damage from lightning orb or lightning surge regardless of a full set of infused aeromancer armor.

Having two exhaustion spells, especially spells that do practically the same thing is pointless.

I appreciate your time for bashing my build, but I have never had a problem with this build during PvP matches or tournaments.

I will look into maybe changing the enervating charge for lightning javelin, what's the range on it?

CareBearPK

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

30 May 2005 at 22:33 - 10

Quote:

Nor have I. LSurge is a good spell, keep it. No one said to remove it.

Quote:

Guilt being far too situational?? Are you on crack?? The game is all about using skills. 90% of battles involve a spellcaster.

Is an entire spot on your skill bar with 8 mana every 32+ seconds?

Not on mine, but use it if you want...

Quote:

Putting Gale in there may be a good snare, but it will take up another skill slot which is where Lightning Surge compromises by having both high damage (Least I've done is 50 damage and it was against a ranger, and it knocks them down so the allies take care of them.) Yes. Replace LSurge with Gale. (Sarcasm). Use them both. Sometimes you just need a instant snare, not 3 seconds later.

Quote: Monks are usually the first targeted enemies anyways, so they're far too busy trying to save their own asses than others, backfire backs it up and forces them to be more sparingly of their skill usage whentheyre being under attack. If there a good team, they will be spamming remove hex on the targetted monk; and there will be 1-2 other monks healing him. Backfire is a good skill, but in the time it takes to cast it you could have surged and orbed the monk to hit for like 150+ dmg, which if he was at lower than half life probaly would have killed him.

Quote: With the 40% faster skil recovery, I'm able to frequently cast these spells you consider "weak" even though I can pop in 80-90 damage from lightning orb or lightning surge regardless of a full set of infused aeromancer armor. Who said surge and orb were weak?

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Having two exhaustion spells, especially spells that do practically the same thing is pointless. Not really. One has a 3 second delay with damage and 1 that just knocks down are different. Who usees Surge to knock someone down? I dont think anyone does really. If you want to just knock them down most people use Gale. Less energy, faster cast, and no "wait 3 seconds".

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I appreciate your time for bashing my build, but I have never had a problem with this build during PvP matches or tournaments. Congrats. But I think it could be better. =/ Your trying to do 2 things, dont.

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I will look into maybe changing the enervating charge for lightning javelin, what's the range on it? Personally I like strike better, a little less damage but less energy.

Ibanezgtrsst07

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

Omicron 5

Seekers of Sanctuary

E/Me

30 May 2005 at 23:12 - 11

Quote:

Originally Posted by CareBearPK

Not really. One has a 3 second delay with damage and 1 that just knocks down are different. Who usees Surge to knock someone down? I dont think anyone does really. If you want to just knock them down most people use Gale. Less energy, faster cast, and no "wait 3 seconds".

Personally I like strike better, a little less damage but less energy. I completely agree with you. However, I have a low amount of damaging spells as is.

But for the remove hex, what if I replace Guilt with Shame. Of course, that's taking a big risk considering I won't be able to know when they cast that spell since it only affects the first spell casted. A monk will probably realize that they're hexed and would probably cast an instant cast spell such as healing breeze or orison of healing and will cancel the spell out. However, I will still steal 10-11 energy from them which may not do much in the beginning, but towards the middle-end it can be crucial. Guilt has saved mine and my allies' butts several time from nukers. Anyways I am still going to revise this skill set but mostly the mesmer skills and how I can create more efficient combos.

Usually in PvP, depending on the character (lets go with a monk for example because thsi seems to be the factor which is breaking this build) I would cast Glyph Of LE, and would probably either cast Lightning Orb or Backfire for 0 energy. Let's say that in this round I decide to use backfire first. Now, if I replace Guilt with Shame. I'll cast that and unless the monk has great (most probably do) reflexes, it would probably be successful. If they decide to wait for Shame/Backfire to end, I usually would cast LSurge and Lightning Orb, which could possibly get them into some danger. Provided that my team sticks to the called target (usually the monk), this can be pretty frustrating.

Anyways, one of the main reasons why I also use LSurge is becuase of fleeing enemies. Although Gale can do the same, and immediately, LSurge allows time to catch up and use say Lightning Orb. So once the enemy is knocked down, they immediately get smacked with a lightning Orb. By then, lightning Surge will be ready to use once again (gale would too, but I'll be dealing consistant damage).

So if I replace some skills. It would be Enervating Charge with Jav., and maybe Guilt/Shame with Gale.

I understand that I may be trying to do too much, but the more diverse the character is, the harder they are to counter. Maybe I am stretching the boundaries a little too much with attempting to be more "well-rounded."

And yes, I still have slots for runes and will probably farm for a superior Air rune, then maybe a minor energy storage and a minor domination just so I don't lose anymore health.

Please keep finding ways to prove me wrong, it only motivates me to balance this out more.

Red Locust

Site Contributor

Join Date: May 2005

31 May 2005 at 02:08 - 12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minwanabi

Ok, I'm going to give this build a blow by blow, and keep in mind that this will be in regards to competitive PvP (such as Tombs and GvG)

This will cause weakness for no longer than 2-3 seconds, as it will be removed near instantaneously.

Builds know there's going to be a spike air ele somewhere, and therefore as soon as a surge is shouted over voice chat, the prot monk will instantly do one of two things, if not both. First, drop protective spirit, your damage is reduced to ~50 per spell. Next, they'll use reversal of fortune, your surge will do no damage, that character will be healed, and therefore even more ready for your next spells.

Read above. No group worth anything will leave a physical damage doer blinded or weak faster than it takes to hotkey their name and press number 1.

Yawn. Will be removed instantly if it matters. Any half retarded group will either remove it, or be winning by enough that 10s doesn't matter.

Far too situational of a spell. In 90% of the cases, the mage targeted by this will wait the few seconds for it to wear off. The rest of the time it will be removed in seconds after being called over voice chat.

All in all, you're trying to do way too much. You don't have enough damage to spike anyone, and you don't have enough caster shut down, no energy denial, no interrupts. Too many of your skills are defensive, you need to rely on your team. Next, you need to decide what the heck you want to do in a fight. Either play a mesmer, and run with more caster shutdown, energy denial, interrupts, etc, or play a spike air ele, and run with surge, orb, strike, do so with 2-3 other spike air eles, coordinate your attacks and watch them fall. Yes, and in the ideal world you play in, your team will be stacking hexes on your target and interrupting/shutting down the monks, so all those conditions and hexes won't get removed.
Seriously, it works both ways, if you're gonna assume that the enemy team is so well prepared, you have to assume your team is equally well organized. If not, you're bound to lose anyways.

Otherwise, that is a solid build. I would ditch domination for inspiration so that I could maintain my energy and deal out constant dmg with those air spells.

Eonwe

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

New Jersey

Idiot Savants

31 May 2005 at 03:15 - 13

If you're running a surge build like that you want 16 in air, not 14.

Minwanabi

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2005

Michigan

31 May 2005 at 06:09 - 14

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If you're running a surge build like that you want 16 in air, not 14.

thanks nubsauce Justin =P very helpful...

Seriously though,

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Maybe 99% of people don't realize they're surged in random arena or something, but you should never make a build around assuming a failure in your enemies. What happens when you hit that 1%? Do you just lose, and say, well, if they were worse... What you should say is, well, how can we cover 100%?
A good team *will* recognize and respond to surge in time.

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uilt being far too situational?? Are you on crack?? The game is all about using skills. 90% of battles involve a spellcaster.

The problem your build has with guilt is that it doesn't mesh with any other skills. Rather than being 1/8 of a team build, you have half the skill bars from two seperate members. This build really isn't doing anything, at the core, and that's the problem. Guilt simply doesn't fit, because you can't squeeze the caster to make him cast against you or a party member of yours.

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By the way, blinding flash does last 9 seconds in battle, I was able to blind several warriors/rangers and was able to stand still. You misunderstand. Blind spells don't last longer than 3 seconds, at the most, because there are always between 1 and 3 condition removals on a good team, and they'll be using them, especially on conditions that matter like blind. It. Will. Get. Removed. To think otherwise is deluding yourself, and you will lose the moment you depend on wars and rangers standing around with their thumbs up their asses blind.

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Monks are usually the first targeted enemies anyways, so they're far too busy trying to save their own asses than others, backfire backs it up and forces them to be more sparingly of their skill usage whentheyre being under attack. Like I said, if it's a heated battle, backfire will be removed, end of story. It's nothing more than hex removal bait. You can try and stack it up, you can try to sneak it in, but it will be singly removed, or converted, and the only time it isn't removed is when the battle is won or lost.

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I will look into maybe changing the enervating charge for lightning javelin, what's the range on it? Javelin is a very bad skill, but that's neither here nor there.

In the end, you have the beginning of the standard air ele spike build, but throwing in spells like backfire and guilt is a waste of cast time, skill bar slots, and energy. Bring actual damage, and spike a target. You say you do 80-90 damage a pop, when you're lucky enought to get a fast recharge/cast time. You're depending on luck to do a pittance of damage.

Oh, and on a side note, the infusion status of armor is irrelevant in PvP, it affects spectral agony only.

Sarus

Ministry of Technology

Join Date: Feb 2005

Washington D.C.

Idiot Savants

Mo/

31 May 2005 at 16:38 - 15

Okay time to bash my fellow guildie (well sort of) =)

Quote:

We do this all the time Min. You can't make a counter all build. That's the point of the game. Thus you design a build to be as robust as possible and to counter as many situations as you can forsee and cross your fingers that nobody on your run to the Halls is gonna be running your anti-build. Yes, a good team WILL respond to a surge in time. That is however assuming that the surge is the only thing going on. What if you have two surge/orb spikers? What if you have 3 other team members stacking hexes? At some point something slips through the cracks of even the best team. A chink in the armor and then down they go. Some teams have bigger chinks and weaker armor (figuratively speaking). You can't just assume that every hex you stack, every damage you spike is going to be countered ... it's not. What you do have to do though is give the other team so much to worry about that things like backfires stay on for 6-8 seconds instead of 2, that things like surge go unnoticed etc. This obviously can't be done with a single character out of 8. It's something that requires an entire team build.

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By the way, blinding flash does last 9 seconds in battle, I was able to blind several warriors/rangers and was able to stand still.

I have to agree with Min here. Condition removal is infintely more spammable than hex removal. No decent team will let their warriors/rangers operate with blind on them for more than a few seconds. The second any of our warriors have blind they start yelling it out on vent like their pants are on fire. If you're using it to save your butt well then you're going to die against a decent team.

Quote:

Like I said, if it's a heated battle, backfire will be removed, end of story. It's nothing more than hex removal bait. You can try and stack it up, you can try to sneak it in, but it will be singly removed, or converted, and the only time it isn't removed is when the battle is won or lost.

I have to disagree with Min here. If you get enough hexes covering that backfire so the monk can't smite it themselves then they need a convert. Convert has a 2 second cast time. Usually what happens is you cast backfire. If the monk is good the monk will just smite the backfire themselves. In this case the backfire was nearly worthless. However, if you manage to cover the backfire with something then the monk will need a convert. The backfire will usually be up for ~5 seconds. Although not ideal you did keep a monk occupied for 5 seconds waiting for hex removal. Furthermore, one of the other monks had to waste time and energy to convert hexes. If you do this often enough it can put a serious crimp in a monks ability to heal. The key however is hex stacking. If you just throw a backfire up there and leave it all alone and naked don't expect it to do anything.

Quote:

In the end, you have the beginning of the standard air ele spike build, but throwing in spells like backfire and guilt is a waste of cast time, skill bar slots, and energy. Bring actual damage, and spike a target. You say you do 80-90 damage a pop, when you're lucky enought to get a fast recharge/cast time. You're depending on luck to do a pittance of damage. Here I agree with Min. If you want to have a spike damage elementalist you need to base your entire build around that. Don't try to do too many different things or you won't do any of them well. On this note, you don't want to have surge and gale. Gale is a great knockdown but someone else on your team should run it who isn't trying to do spike damage. If a target is running you want someone else to knock the target down so you can kill it with the spike damage. In addition, the exhaustion will kill you. Running 2 exhaustion spells that you plan on using regularly is going to be very very tough on your energy management.

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If you're running a surge build like that you want 16 in air, not 14. That is correct. No spike damage build should ever run with anything other than 16.

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Monks are usually the first targeted enemies anyways, so they're far too busy trying to save their own asses than others, backfire backs it up and forces them to be more sparingly of their skill usage whentheyre being under attack. Monks aren't very good at saving their own asses. On a good team with good monks the monks rely on each other to save their asses. As a monk you can heal someone else for a lot more than you can heal youself. This is why hex stacking a single monk or using surge on a single monk won't do anything. If you can't shut down all the monks at once or at least 2 out of 3 you will only very rarely get a kill.

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I appreciate your time for bashing my build, but I have never had a problem with this build during PvP matches or tournaments. You shouldn't take it personally when people "attack" the builds you post. Afterall, isn't that the whole point of posting your build? To get feedback? Shoot, if I posted a build and all anyone said was "Great build it's 100% perfect" I would be kind of upset since I know they're lying. I don't think Min was trying to bash you're build. He was just trying to point out what he considered the weaknesses to be from his experience playing PvP.

Ensign

Just Plain Fluffy

Join Date: Dec 2004

Berkeley, CA

Idiot Savants

31 May 2005 at 17:28 - 16

The thing that bugs me about this build is this: Enervating Charge, Blinding Flash, Guilt. Just what are you trying to do with this build? It looks like you're just trying to annoy their entire team instead of really hammer someone, and if that's the case I really don't think there's much to say. I mean if I see an Air Elementalist on the opposing team blasting one of my Warriors with Enervating Charge and Blinding Flash I'm just going to pump the fist.

Also there's a misunderstanding about how Guilt works. Basically if they try to cast an offensive skill it is countered *immediately* but doesn't have to recharge. So in reality it doesn't cost them any time at all, just the energy cost of the skill in question plus what is stolen. If you want to break Guilt or Shame just tap one of your 5 energy skills, lose that 5 energy plus whatever is stolen, and go about your business. Not that you should do that often, but the option is there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minwanabi

Builds know there's going to be a spike air ele somewhere, and therefore as soon as a surge is shouted over voice chat, the prot monk will instantly do one of two things, if not both. My experience with Lightning Surge is that it's going to hit more than it misses, even against good teams. If you can't remove it yourself with Smite / Inspired you need to just up and brace yourself because calling for it isn't going to get removal in time. Couple your reaction time (to Surge) with the reaction time of your other Monk (to your call for a Smite), plus the time it takes to call for it, plus vent lag, plus the one second cast time of the removal - if they were already casting a spell when you make the call, the remaining cast time + aftercast comes into play as well. So in my experience you need to be calling for Protective Spirit / incoming spike, to get everyone a second or so warning to deal with that spike before it hits.

When Surge does get removed, it's usually because it's coming from a hex-light team where there aren't a lot of purple arrows, and consequently the Monks kill them on sight. Then there's no vent lag, no communication to take place, they just see the arrow and nuke it.

The thing I've noticed about Surge is that most people run Surge + Orb instead of Surge + Chain, so there's a nice little self solution to their combo - running. This is a simple abuse of how projectiles work - basically they look at the target's current movement and fire at where that target should be if they keep moving in that direction. So if you just start running in a stright line with Surge on you, they'll fire the Orb at where you'll be if you kept running - except that .25 seconds after the Orb is fired, you get knocked down by Surge, stopping you in your tracks but also making the Orb fly off target. One missed Orb can easily be enough to stop the spike.

I'm still a fan of Backfire, but don't look at it as a skill to deal damage as one that shuts someone down until it's removed. How long that'll be will again depend on what type of build you're running - if your team is hex light, you're looking at maybe two seconds of shutdown before Backfire comes right off, but if there's a good amount of hex spammage going around then you'll likely get 4-5 seconds of inaction from a Monk while he stands around with Backfire on him. Now personally those 5 seconds, plus the time another Monk has to spend removing the Backfire is all that I want out of the skill, but if you're looking for a bit more then I wouldn't run it. Personally I don't think it's worth it on a secondary Mesmer as it just takes too long to cast.

Peace,
-CxE

Ibanezgtrsst07

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

Omicron 5

Seekers of Sanctuary

E/Me

31 May 2005 at 19:52 - 17

Alright, once again thank you all for your contributions and advice.

So what should I replace jav, backfire, and guilt with? Should I stay as just one strongpoint build rather than numerous, mediocre one?

Now that I'm going to become more air-spike based. I'm going to invest the last points + a superior rune into air magic to get it to 16. I only used 13 becuase I only had a minor air rune and wanted to balance out the other skills. But since it is now reccommended to play one good role instead of many decent ones, I'll obviously max that out, as well as energy storage.

Question is, where should the remaining points go?

Illusion is pretty much out of the question since I'm going to be hex-light.

Domination we've just solved. So that's out.

Perhaps inspiration may be good to invest some points in, for backup energy conservation. If I do go with inspiration, I could most likely get rid of Glyph of Lesser Energy for another air skill or inspiration skill.

Or, I could give the remaining points into water magic considering air magic does extra damage when the opponent is under a water hex such as ice prison. But this is where the "remove hex" skill comes in and makes this somewhat of a problem.

By the way, thanks Ensign for going into detail about Guilt. You saved me a skill slot.

How much do Superior runes usually run for anyways? I gotta buy me one, lol.

stumpy

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2005

Canucklehead BC, Canada

Advanced Necro Undead Society

31 May 2005 at 19:59 - 18

Also, in the chance that you do try out your initial build ... your gonna have to aim Guilt at an 'offensive' target ... usually these are dead first and fastest rendering this skill less than medeocre. I would rather drop in Shame as you are more likely to encounter longer living monks and paladins (ressurects). team builds are often more geared towards defensive offensive appoach and you will likely get more use from this ...

that being said I'm gonna bash the both of these skills now (as a mesmer) and say for a 30 second recharge this skill is utterly useless ... your job is not to interrupt ... your job is to deal high air damage ... replace it with a low cost channeling (as all of your skills are spells) or another spell of your desire.

stumpy

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2005

Canucklehead BC, Canada

Advanced Necro Undead Society

31 May 2005 at 20:15 - 19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibanezgtrsst07

Stats:

Air Magic: 11+2
Energy Storage: 10
Domination Magic: 10
1 Pt leftover

Skills:
1. Enervating Charge
2. Lightning Orb
3. Lightning Surge (Elite)
4. Air Attunement
5. Glyph of Lesser Energy
6. Blinding Flash
7. Backfire
8. Guilt

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibanezgtrsst07

How much do Superior runes usually run for anyways? I gotta buy me one, lol. Okay you just replied while I was writing and never had the oppotunity to comment on this ... guilt is solved ... jav is the least to consider ... but if you are considering removal of the last 2 ... go with another strong point to aid your team ... either Earth wards if needed (then again this is doubling up and is not your job either), or you could add Shock or Windborne Speed for only defensive purposes (to give you an extra second from the warrior).

EDIT --- Superior Runes rune for alot and Air Runes especially are hot right now. You likely wont get an Air Superior for less than 30K.

Ensign

Just Plain Fluffy

Join Date: Dec 2004

Berkeley, CA

Idiot Savants

31 May 2005 at 22:18 - 20

I don't think you neccessarily need to dump Domination and Backfire, just that you need to understand that the really good shutdown hexes are not going to last their duration. Backfire keeps someone from Healing for around 5 seconds, Shame rips up energy a bit later on. I think they can be an effective part of a spike. For example, cast Backfire on a Monk. If they're any good that Monk won't cast through it, and will probably be calling for removal, but you have a good five seconds during which they won't heal themselves. Sounds like a good time for a Surge / Orb combo, eh? Even in that case it's likely that the removal will hit the Surge, not the Backfire, giving you more time to pound on them unopposed.

Granted a good Mesmer can do the same thing, but usually they're chasing around off Monks, not the called one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibanezgtrsst07

So what should I replace jav, backfire, and guilt with? Should I stay as just one strongpoint build rather than numerous, mediocre one?

I think that you can have a real strongpoint in addition to covering other roles, you just have to build smart. Enervating Charge is solid in PvE where you're hammering on dangerous boss monsters and conditions stick, but in PvP spending 10 energy to slap a condition on a Warrior (which will be removed quickly) in addition with a bit of incidental damage that won't be backed up simply doesn't matter.

Consider a build like:

Lightning Strike
Lightning Orb
Lightning Surge
Conjure Lightning
Air Attunement
Ward Against Melee
Backfire
Shame

12+4 Air Magic
9 Domination
8+1 Energy Storage
5+1 Earth Magic

With this you slap a power hex on your target to make him scramble for removal, then back that up with heavy air spike damage. Between spikes you just keep hammering with Lightning Strike, Orb, and Conjure + Wand. If you see Warrior trains just slap down a Ward and let the Monks run around in it.

The important part is to be good at what you're supposed to do (crazy single target spike damage), and fill in the rest with support or whatever else your team needs - just make sure that said support is actually effective.

Quote: Originally Posted by Ibanezgtrsst07 Or, I could give the remaining points into water magic considering air magic does extra damage when the opponent is under a water hex such as ice prison. That's just Lightning Touch. Other Air spells don't care about Water hexes at all.

Quote: This makes sense in 8v8, but I wonder if this build might actually work in 4v4. (The 4v4 arena seems to be getting more popular, by the way, and I find it quite fun as a change of pace.) In 4v4, I find that each teammate has to take on additional roles; you can't specialize as much. In that situation, I think it might make sense for a caster to take on the role of spiker + warrior shutdown, or spiker + warrior shutdown + quick knockdown. Also, hex removal is not going to be as fast in 4v4 simply because they were will be fewer monks on a team.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibanezgtrsst07

How much do Superior runes usually run for anyways? I gotta buy me one, lol. Anywhere from 10,000 to 50,000 gold depending on the attribute, and even higher for Vigor / Absorption runes. Air runes fall somewhere in the middle, around 25,000-30,000.

Peace,
-CxE

Vashna

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

31 May 2005 at 22:23 - 21

This is a very interesting discussion. I'm still new to PvP, but am interested in having any of my gross errors in judgment fixed as fast as possible

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

" I mean if I see an Air Elementalist on the opposing team blasting one of my Warriors with Enervating Charge and Blinding Flash I'm just going to pump the fist."

"The thing I've noticed about Surge is that most people run Surge + Orb instead of Surge + Chain, so there's a nice little self solution to their combo - running. This is a simple abuse of how projectiles work - basically they look at the target's current movement and fire at where that target should be if they keep moving in that direction. So if you just start running in a stright line with Surge on you, they'll fire the Orb at where you'll be if you kept running - except that .25 seconds after the Orb is fired, you get knocked down by Surge, stopping you in your tracks but also making the Orb fly off target" I have run into this problem a lot with lightning orbs, actually. I've tried freezing opponents with ice prison and then using repeat lightning orbs (with arcane echo), which seems to work decently, although of course you don't get the surge spike. I didn't think about using Surge + Chain, which seems like a good way around it, but doesn't the double exhaustion hurt bad?

Ibanezgtrsst07

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

Omicron 5

Seekers of Sanctuary

E/Me

31 May 2005 at 23:28 - 22

Quote:

Originally Posted by stumpy

I thought I mentioned this before, but that build I have I have used it in TONS of PvP matches, and it works wonders against Warriors and spellcasters. It doesn't do that great of damage to rangers because of their high magic defense, but I've taken down spellcasters without a problem and took down some warriors in a matter of seconds.

I should've mentined that this IS in fact a 4v4 Build. But let's also take both sides and try to build an 8v8 build. Sorry I should've mentioned that before.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign With this you slap a power hex on your target to make him scramble for removal, then back that up with heavy air spike damage. Between spikes you just keep hammering with Lightning Strike, Orb, and Conjure + Wand. If you see Warrior trains just slap down a Ward and let the Monks run around in it.

I tried using conjure lightning in pvp and really didn't get that much more damage. (I think about 6-10 more damage with a 11-22 wand).

[Quote=Ibanezgtrsst07]
Or, I could give the remaining points into water magic considering air magic does extra damage when the opponent is under a water hex such as ice prison.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

That's just Lightning Touch. Other Air spells don't care about Water hexes at all. Thanks for reminding me about that. Haha, I'm losing my mind.

Sorry about not mentioning that thsi was 4v4. However, once we finish building this 4v4 pvp character, Perhaps we can continue on the 8v8 build. (Unless these suggestions were for 4v4).

Of course I'm going to have to change things up a bit when I start doing 8v8.

By the way, there's no point in having shock in an LSurge build; shock causes exhaustion and much less damage, it does the exact same thing as LSurge but is worse.

So as an update, for a 4v4 PvP battle,let's take out lightning jav for lightning strike for easy, low cost damage.

1. Lightning Strike
2. Lightning Orb
3. Lightning Surge (E)
4. Air Attunement
5. Glyph of Lesser Energy
6. Blinding Flash
7. Backfire
8. Guilt/Shame once again. (Monks aren't as common in 4v4 in the PvE PvP arenas.)

For 8v8 PvP, let's start with something basic and general

1. Lightning Strike
2. Lightning Orb
3. Lightning Surge (E)
4. Air Attunement
5. Glyph of lesser Energy
6. Insert Skill Here
7. Insert Skill Here
8. Insert Skill Here

Edit: what if in 8v8 (or even 4v4) I equip Shatter Hex and use it on a hexed warrior or someone who is surrounded or trapped? That may be playing an extra role as not only an E/Me but also a Mo with the hex removal, but it can do some pretty good damage to adjacent foes. Just a thought.

Ensign

Just Plain Fluffy

Join Date: Dec 2004

Berkeley, CA

Idiot Savants

01 Jun 2005 at 00:10 - 23

Are we talking arranged arena or random arena? In random arena just play whatever / experiment. If you want to just mop up in random arena play a Monk - 1 Monk + 3 random guys = 10 game win streak.

In arranged arena you're looking at a bunch of fun 1½ Monk strategies and even more fun with buff stacking since the removal just isn't going to be there.

Um...yeah.

Peace,
-CxE

Vashna

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

01 Jun 2005 at 01:43 - 24

Was talking arranged 4v4 arena. Well, still fun for me, at least for now.

ipierago

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Apr 2005

02 Jun 2005 at 18:23 - 25

Long time reader, first time poster.

Ibanezgtrsst07

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

Omicron 5

Seekers of Sanctuary

E/Me

02 Jun 2005 at 19:32 - 26

Quote:

Originally Posted by ipierago

Long time reader, first time poster.

What about running Energy Burn and Energy Surge {Elite} on your E/Me for a PvP monk killer? These two skills ignore armor for an (almost) guaranteed 72 points of damage with domination at 12.

If a damage spike is so important, keep Lightning Surge {Elite} and use Energy Burn as the follow-up?

Thanks,
Ian Not a bad idea, however since I have my air at 16 and my energy storage at 10+1, I won't have enough points for a level 12 domination. My dom is at 10 right now. Energy burn would probably work, but it has the same charge time as backfire (I think, haven't used it in so long.)

I would like to have at least one mesmer spell that either interupts or causes damage when an enemy does x action. Then a mana recovery/stealing skill to help conserve energy.

Usually in the 4v4 arenas, I cast Backfire then Shame on the monk. So their spell gets interupted, I steal 11 energy, and they take 100+ damage from at least one backfire move. When they choose to do nothing, that' when I surge and spike them with orb and strike.

Apocalyptic Touch

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

06 Jun 2005 at 01:50 - 27

this may be minorly off topic, but it does pertain to pvp air eles

im relatively inexperienced with eles, and i was just wondering why chain lightning is seldom mentioned in pvp builds

thx--apoc

Minwanabi

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2005

Michigan

06 Jun 2005 at 03:37 - 28

Quote:

im relatively inexperienced with eles, and i was just wondering why chain lightning is seldom mentioned in pvp builds It's mentioned occasionally, but you run into the double exhaustion problem - surge is almost always included on an air ele build, so some people feel the need to avoid chain lightning. At the same time, for spiking a single target, it's no better than an org or a surge. Of course, I usually run it myself, it just may not be as mainstream.

Oh, and on an offnote, at 16 air magic, conjure lightning adds 17 damage.

Apocalyptic Touch

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

06 Jun 2005 at 14:46 - 29

alrighty, thanks

Ibanezgtrsst07

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

Omicron 5

Seekers of Sanctuary

E/Me

06 Jun 2005 at 22:31 - 30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minwanabi

It's mentioned occasionally, but you run into the double exhaustion problem - surge is almost always included on an air ele build, so some people feel the need to avoid chain lightning. At the same time, for spiking a single target, it's no better than an org or a surge. Of course, I usually run it myself, it just may not be as mainstream.
Yeah, Chain Lightning is just as good as orb or surge. I don't like the double exhaustion especially after around 10+ calls it can get pretty frustrating with mana usage. It is still a very good spell and LSurge builds seem to be mentioned a little more than chain lightning builds.

As for 8v8 PvP, I have a new build that perhaps you guys can help edit with me. Here it is:

Air Magic: 12+4
Energy Storage: 10+1
Domination: 9
5 Points leftover

Skills:
1. Chain Lightning or Lightning Strike
2. Lightning Orb
3. Lightning Surge
4. Glyph of Lesser Energy
5. Air Attunement
6. Blinding Flash
7. Shame
8. Shatter Hex

Skills 7 and 8 work unusually well in 8v8 pvp. When my team is battling and someone in hexed, the person just says it on teamspeak and they walk towards the called target or monks and I use shatter hex and deal 95 damageto anyone by that which can be the chain lightning replacement skill although chain does more damage and isn't a situational skill.

Shame is used to prevent a dying monk or called target from healing. Since healing spells are commonly used from the monks, it's basically an instant stealing of 10 energy.

I could probably replace blinding flash with another air magic or a domination skill.

Falconer

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2005

06 Jun 2005 at 23:26 - 31

Count me as one of the people who doesn't mind the double exhaustion possibility of surge + chain.

Put simply, if you're playing an elementalist... energy management is your middle name. It is your life blood to do anything. Exhaustion is merely another variable in that equation. You just need to exhibit the appropriate level of self control and know when and when not to inflict the double exhaustion penalty.

I have to agree... you lack a lot of focus in the build.
There's a lot of other domination skills I'd consider instead.
Shatter enchant, wastrels maybe, Panic*, Diversion would all be better picks IMO.

FengShuiBundi

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

Blue State

K A R M A

Mo/Me

06 Jun 2005 at 23:43 - 32

The creators added exhaustion for eles because they have the most energy in the game. Use it, abuse it. I always run double exhaustion and I do fine (maybe it's double attunements covering it up) 90% of the time, the other 10% it's because I made a judgement error and wasted an earthquake. That's about it. It should be fairly easy for a good ele to manage two light exhaustion spells.

Just watch when you cast, not that hard.

Ibanezgtrsst07

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

Omicron 5

Seekers of Sanctuary

E/Me

07 Jun 2005 at 02:28 - 33

Quote:

Originally Posted by FengShuiBundi

Ibanezgtrsst07

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

Omicron 5

Seekers of Sanctuary

E/Me

07 Jun 2005 at 02:31 - 34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falconer

Razorcraft

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jun 2005

07 Jun 2005 at 20:32 - 35

I've been running Energy Surge + Lightning Strike. With Orb as a backup.

I really really miss Energy Drain. With surge on there... :/ That only leaves me with Tap. That doesnt give me nearly enough of a return in energy to be useful.

EDIT: Oh yeh. There is a counter to the surge. Not sure I want to spoil it tho

Hint: it breaks hexes... (runs)

Silver_47

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jan 2006

No Found Results

E/Me

03 Jan 2006 at 00:21 - 36

I've been so far using this build and i think it has worked out rather good:

1:Lightning Javelin
2:Lightning Strike
3:Lightning Orb
4:Gale
5:Spirit Of Failure
6:Physical Resistance
7:Air Attunemente
8:Elemental Attunement [Elite]

Attributes:
Inspiration:10
Air:11
Energy:10
--------------------------------
Air Attunemente and Elemental Attunement works excelente together, giving me almost no energy loss at all as they stack and gives me 80% of the energy i spend on air skills back. and that 20% that i lose usualy Spirit of Failure takes care of. (Hex spell, 25% miss and every miss gives me 4 energy)

Physical Resistance works well together with Spirit Of failure against Warrior, but if i want to swap something for another skill it's usually this skill. (Gives me 40+ armor against physical but -18 against elemental. It's also a instant cast spell!)

Gale speaks for itself, knockdown is never wrong and the rest is just for nuking.

What does y'all think?