Love'em or hate'em we need monks

But they dont need us.

So I have a few "wishful" suggestions.

Before you jump to any flaming or counter arguements, here me out.

Of course monks need other classes to round them out, right? Sure.

The thing is, if a monk is on a team, a large portion of his skills are relivent for any situation in pvp or pve - heal the team.
The other classes have builds that work in favor of one situation or another. The classes that are more situational are often less needed. For example, 3 monks on a team an people are happy. 3 rangers and people get upset. (its this a balance issue?)

A ranger can set up to lure and trap, to distrupt, to condition the field for everyone, do excellent damage, to survive, and whatever else really well, one build at a time. Each one of this things in the right situation is very helpful. Suddenly, when the right situation comes about, "Man, your a good ranger. Thats rare"
Mesmers face the same problem. They can take out a monk easy with an anticaster build, but when there is just rangers and warriors...that mez will be sort of useless.


Ive read here a situation in where a team of 8 was wailing on monk boss and he would not die. Ive experanced this also. Of course the team wasnt prepared for him. There are skills that would take him out with no problem. The thing is, a slap together team of 8 would not have to prepare to wail on a boss of any other class to eventually take him out.

I feel as if this is a precievable problem. Be it, not a "hugh" problem, but an issue none the less.

My hopeful suggestion, and it can go any which other way to solve this, is to make bosses of other classes harder.
Mez bosses could cast faster and select the targets that would benifit him most.
Ranger bosses could evade more and know when to run (and fast) and take less time to set up traps.
Elementist bosses cast could combo easier and do great damage while adding to his defence
Warrior bosses could block more.
Necro bosses could..well do whatever it takes to make them stay alive longer. (sorry necros, I dont understand you class to well, but I do know nec bosses fall when teamed up on)

So the idea here is to make each boss as situational as the monk boss is. They are very beatable, but if you dont plan for it, it will take much more time, if not all day to take down, just like monk bosses.

Now, as Ive added to the defenive capablities to the classes bosses. It could be also added to the class for players themselves.
The other way around it would be to make the monk boss more defeatable, but then to also "nerf" the monk class.

In pve, it can be easier to prepare your class for the situation you know your about to encounter. In pvp, its much more random.

Another idea would be to instead make skills and attribution points interchangable during the count down in pvp. Also during this time you can have a list of all the players and there classes on entering battle. Thereby helping you prepare yourself for a fairly random encounter.

ok, whatcha think?

i agree that the monk is not "over powered" but over used i guess i could say. i think that lowering the monks abillity to heal or the monks "armmor class" would be the best thing to do. there for when the mezmar is at 5al, the monk would be at 0al, and it might progress from there.

"We don't like monks! They're over powered! Everyone has a monk primary or secondary!!! NERF MONKS! NERF NERF NERF Monk primaries by shitting on their armor!!!"

Wtf is wrong with you guys?

Lower my ARMOR LEVEL???? Are you serious? Because I don't seem to take enough agro and punishment when healing my team, let's make it HARDER FOR ME.

Screw you guys...

Edit: I chose a monk secondary on my necro so I could solo with her and heal my minions. And I do just that. You want to know what balances this though? I have to spend points in healing. I have to grab skills that heal me when instead, I could be picking up curses or blood skills for other purposes.

One thing i'd like to see is monk armor that has weaknesses to shadow (dark) damage and possibly chaos damage. Seems only fair considering the necros have armor that has weakness to holy.

But necros get an extra defense bonus with that armor. If they make a monk armor have weakness vs shadow/chaos damage, they'd have to make it have some other benefit, or else it'd be pretty unfair.

Maybe like:

75 AL
Less defense against shadow/chaos damage
-25 AL while attacking

That would encourage healers to wear it, but other monks (attackers) to stick to standard armors.

While modifing the monks armor would make for some intresting changes to how a monk playes the game. I was going along the idea of adding some sort of addtions to the other classes to make them more self sefichant.

But then again. Like I was saying earlier. A monk that heals is always in situation that helps, for either his team, or even himself. So make a monk more situational like the other classes (like your armor ideas) could add to the same effect of balancing them out against the other classes.

And also, the armor ideas can directlly relate to other classes too. Warrors can get sheilds +other gear that automatically chance blocking, it could stack, but at the price of something else. Rangers could get gear that chance evasion. etc etc.

Another insight Ive had. Mesmers are the softest target in the game.

They dont have the defences with armor or with skills. (once again, the defenive skills they have are situational) Added they dont get the respect that a monk gets and therefor arent aided as well in battle.

As such, it seems like a good solution to me would be to add to thier illussion skill set some skills that counfuse players.

For instance, have the mez disappear for a short time, or have phantom targets around the mez, or make the appear like a pet or minon (which often take less priority as a target)

With some spamable illusion skills the mez would be a wonderful addition as he would be a hassle to fight while still being able to do what he does best, support the team by hassling everyone else.

Something along those lines seems reasonable. Give them armors that make them more powerful at keeping their allies alive, but make them more vulnerable personally.

I'm thinking that gear that increases chances to block, would give a weakness to elements (including holy, dark, chaos, etc)?

OR

Chances to block, BUT, health or energy degen?


Rangers, yes, they should be swift. This is what I think when I think about rangers. They're wily. I agree that they should get gear that increases evade chances. Maybe a reduced AL though (not talking drastic reduction). I mean, if you want armors that are lighter and easier to move in, you're going to sacrifice effectiveness of damage reduction on those armors, right?

Or maybe give them increased defense, such as evade or block, against projectiles (magic and arrows). But with a hit on attack speed by a %.


Necros... I think they're good. Don't they end up with 70 AL armor (I have a lvl 19 necro, but nowhere near the final gear)? Reduced holy for increased def. I like that.


What about boots for a warrior that give a % for knockdown resistance. But you lose AL on them of course.


I'd like to see more gear combinations for each class. Adds a whole new level of strategy. If one piece of gear gives high base defense (but no special attributes), and one gives a chance to block (maybe you get an attack speed penalty... since your char is busy blocking), or one has immunity to burn condition (but ice attacks have less resistance), or whatever!!!!

The options on this are unlimited and make strategy insanely more fun to work out.

"Geee, these guys are mez'ers, maybe I should switch from my physical armor gear and switch to '5% chance not to be interupted' gloves"

Or

"I know that all these guys are ranged fighters. Archers, wand users, single target magic. Maybe I should bring my projectile resistance gear."

Every class is self-sufficient. All of the classes have some type of healing, and the monk sacrifices their damage for a stronger healing than other classes. Monks are not overpowered.

Players do not like having more than one Ranger because they are redundant. If one player sets up traps around the monk, poisons, bleeds, cripples, and sets an enemy on fire, what's the point in having another person to do the same?

Please, do not weaken monks...

Both in PvE AND PvP, we are the first to die. Everything starts to wail on us, and we get taken down. Please, leave my **** armour alone.

Do you think 3 monks is redunant or a welcoming sight? Do you find yourself on teams that wants at least 2 monks to go to an arean or a mission?

No class is as self sufficient as the monk. And im not saying that monks are overpowered because of this. Im saying monks are too important because of this. (but I guess thats just saying the same, huh?)

Again...a monk that heals is good in every situation. (generally) If the defencive advantages for the other classes where more relable then a weak healing monk would be understandable needed for support, and 3 weak healing monks would be thought of as sucide becuase the team would have to protect all of them.

This treatment is often givin to other classes. If it where given to them all, Id think the game has found some sort of balance.

On the one hand i agree with you goonter, in that all the classes should be more self-sufficient. On the other, it seems pretty obvious that a.net wanted to focus 'healing' into one class since the other classes options are pretty crappy (save for the necro and thats personal healing as well as being a lot less mana effecient).

If you look at it one way, this does simplify anti-healing since your targets are pretty explicitely shown.

Well again lazarous, having a healing class and the other classes not as good at healing is good. To me, it makes rpg and gaming since.
I was suggesting on something along the lines of making the other classes have there own unique form of survial. Warriors block, mesmers cast illusions, rangers evade, elementist and necs get whatever they need to survive like monk bosses do in pve. The monk bosses Im talking about in pve dont really do any offencive anything. But it should be a viable option for a player to survive completely or damage completely or somewhere inbetween.

I play a ranger mostly, but I do have a healer monk character that I use due to a monks necessity. And I think you brought up a point that Ive noticed before. The team bar which shows all of your teammates heal is useful for the team and extremely useful for a monk. Imagine what it would be like if there wasnt one. A monk would have to have to watch the battlefield and cycle through players to find where he needed to use skills and when. Imagine the skill you would need to be able to support a team this way. Thats whats its like playing a disrupter class and build.

A helpful solution - add a enemy bar window that shows multible enemies health/energy (maybe)/ and actions. A person could cycle through and select the targets that he wants to keep an eye on.
And the actions taking place in the skill monitor should look more clearly as to whether it is an action taking place or an action taken.
Maybe clear and quick blinking icon for an action in progress, followed by a bright and still icon for action taken.

All these people who complain about monks are obviously pro (whatever class they are rooting for in their post)

Let's try to play monk before we bash them, shall we? That's what I did. I tried Elementalist, Warrior, then finally Monk.

Lower monk armor? You've got to be kidding me. Even the ranger that you're saying is not getting enough love (original poster) has higher armor than the monk. On top of that, players and monsters a like have a tendency to auto-target monks.

Sure, rangers are cool, effective, and as a whole, a damn good class. But you have to remember the reason it's "Ah man, a ranger!" is because that party's survival comes first. What increases chances of survival? A ranger or a monk?

Lower the monk's healing abilities? Are you crazy? Monk is the only class that can even think of efficiently healing other teammates. In fact, healing may as well be considered the main attribute of monks (aside from Protection builds for PvP) If you lower the monk's healing ability, then he/she becomes an useless healer. Then not only would monks get no invites, but every single profession would be on this forum complaining that they die too frequently. As you've said, the strength of rangers is their diversity. Rangers are too diverse! Why don't we lower their bow damage, or take away their varieties of skills? Doesn't seem right in that context, now does it? Leave the monks alone. They are just as essential as any other class. It is simply that people would rather play without a ranger or mesmer if it means they get to play with a monk.

EDIT: Ugh, sorry. I missed the last few paragraphs of your post. Also, I tried not to sound like I was flaming, but you did spark something in my mind, and reading my post does make me sound like a jerk.

Unfortunately, I still feel the need to present a counter-argument to your suggestions. Monks are not too strong; you are simply just not analyzing all available data. Even if monks were overpowered, it is not a good idea to increase the strength of the other classes (even if it's just for monsters)

Face it, a party will never be prepared for everything, UNLESS they are going through the area a second, or third time after their first was a failure. Likewise, increasing the strength in such a way (such as warriors have increased block) makes it impossible to hit them. My level 19 monk landed 2 hits out of 10 attempts on a level 9 warrior boss. That's just crazy. And even more blocking? Wow.

I do see where you're coming from in that monks are getting all the attention, but I hope you know that monk is a taxing profession to play, and with any online RPG with a healer class, either the healer will be completely useless because of underpowered healing ability, or they will be too in-demand, even if their healing ability is not exactly outrageous. I see no problem in the monk's healing ability, because as I've progressed through the game, I see that sometimes two monks is necessary. When one warrior can tank the Underworld, but it takes two monks to heal a party of 8 (four people per monk) then it's hard to say that monks are overpowered.

True. True.

If Ive lost my mind then Ive lost my mind.

For all of the tweeking Im told has taken place balance is achived in this game.
Im just dont except that hype. I believe balance is in constant flux, perfection is impossable but if seeked constantly we just get closer to something perfect, even a form of perfection we didnt know could ever exist.

As in the case here, (devils advocate) Id say, if your lvl 19 monk had the skills to smite him, the lvl9 warrior would have went out quick. Youd have had to prepared to fight him.

So no, I dont think its crazy. No more than I think its sane for a group of 8 lvl20 players attacking a monk boss with little or no success.

It should be up to the player to decide, "Am I going to sacrifice survial to do damage?"
As it stands, even though any other class can survive well, there clock is ticking when if any group of characters just decide to hit the attack button and wait it out. You cant do that to a monk. Im suggesting the end of this. It would make the game much harder, but at the benift for the classes.

In the end, monks need to heal. But if a team has no monks or wants no monks, they should have there own means to expect to survive. Unless they find themselves in the situation that counters thier ultimate defence.

Also, monks could have used some instances where they are forced to play the situation and not just "always be helpful" Like attributions in skills that heal others only, and then and attribute that heals himself, and maybe a few skills that are a combonation of both. Hell, monks might come off the proity target list then. People would be like, "screw the monk his only healing himself, get that frickin necro, he's killing us!"
Its a little to late for that though. Just wishful thinking.

Additionally, I think this could help monks as well as other classes out. Like you said. It takes 2 monks for a party of 8. Now, it would only take 1 because you dont have to worry about everyone dieing so fast, if they built themselves up defensively. If everyone on the team decided to focus on offence, then 2 healer monks could be there to pick up the slack. (Id like to say the disadvantage to this is that 2 healer monks cant heal themselves but can heal each other. So you would have to protect 2 monks instead of one.)

I think thats a better way to look at it, if im a lvl 20 warrior i should have the ability to do any mission alone, without help, if i cant acomplish this, then somthing is wrong. this i think is whare the problem is. is the fact that the monk, is the only profession that can remotly hold there own, and so i beleave the solution might be to add skills or less healing time to the other classes

LOL.

Every tried soloing with a healing monk? No? I didn't think so.

I do think some of this could be contributed to some of the extreme challanges in pve. I can imagine people testing the game wanting more challanges and then also to balance the weight of the challenge making the healing class a nesscary element. As far as doing any mission alone, I think thats asking much. But doing any mission with the aid of other classes and no monk, that would most exceptable.

You've got to be joking when you say a Monk can hold their own in PVE combat. As a level 12 Monk/Mesmer, with all of my points into divine favor and healing prayers (I'm a solid support build), I am LITERALLY unable to defeat some level 7 or 8 enemies if they are able to heal themselves. Sure, they can't defeat me, but the fact remains I can't do the mission by myself. But, in a group I'm an EXCELLENT healer, and everybody loves to have me around.

To say that Monk's shouldn't be able to heal themselves if they focus on others is, no offense, ridiculous as well. When I'm in groups, my heals draw TONS of aggro, and if I can't heal myself, who can? Another monk? That would mean a group of 4 would need 2 monks to be "sufficient". So what, you suggest we give other classes healing abilities? So they can heal AND fight.

Now, what I feel DOES need some rethinking is the healing ability of a monk as a secondary profession. Too many people seem to pick up monk as a secondary, and are able to heal at nearly the same proficiency as a monk primary. I've seen groups that don't even need monk primaries if they have plenty of members with monk secondaries.

Basically, it looks like you want to turn monks into an unarmored healing class that can't heal themselves. In EVERY MMORPG I've played, a group was incomplete without a healer, and that is the way it should be. Don't cry out for nerfs because you don't like the fact that you need a healer to survive.

You don't need a real monk to do missions. I've sucessfully done thirsty river with a random PUG with Alesia only (1 try with the group too). I've done Thunderhead keep with a random PUG, no monks or warriors, just Mhenlo and Lina for the healz (1 try). Now with the new update henchmen are infused with 3 pieces of armor, so you shouldn't even need real monks as a necessary part of the mission anymore =P

Just be glad monks in this game are not overpowered like they are in RO. (High Priests in RO can tank better than Lord knights while maintaining max heal and party buffs. They also dominate pvp because they can usually take on 3+ other characters)

Basically, monks are fine as they are.

i beleave i may have posted wrong ( my fault ), but what i ment was that insted of taking a way from the monks make the other classes able to heal them selves, at the very least. i did not mean that the monk was able to solo, and was king of the school yard.

[quote=Loxguard]Basically, it looks like you want to turn monks into an unarmored healing class that can't heal themselves.[/q]
this is not what i want to do, in fact this is the last thing i want to do. what i would like to do is not have the monk play the most important role in the game. i want to balance the game.

If youve ever been to some of the tougher missions (underworld) or even try pvp and ever been a team of 8 with no monk they (or maybe you will if your not a monk) well complain. "What no, monk?" alot of times Ive seen, "What only one monk?" No other class gets this reaction.
Another example, Ive seen (and maybe some of you have too) monks offering to join a team if the team paid them x about of gold. This is balanced?

They are always essentual, there skills are always for the right situation.

So no Loxguard.
I know I said that it would have been cool to have healers with a lot of skills that heal others and not himself. But then I added, a healer should then have skills that heal and protect him but not others. This would mean the healer would have to balance his skill set like other professions do, for the situation. Remember, a healing monk is always good in any situation with a team. Other classes dont have this benefit. The other classes can be suited for most situtions. However once they are built it makes them even more situational. This makes the most diverse classes suck at random or unknowable encounters.

But anyhow, whats done is done. Monks are how they are and I think "nerfing" them would create a hugh outcry in the community.

Im sort of repeating myself, but what Ive been suggesting this whole thread is not nerfing monks. Im saying it would help all classes if the other classes raised thier defencive standard.

I play monk. When im in a group and see another monk, I get insulted. When I see 2 more monks including me, I leave. Those are the most underpowered inneficient groups around.

So I take it you never PvP, where you really want to have at least a pair of monks, if not a trio if you can get them?

Monks aren't supermen. In an eight person group, being responsible for healing 7 people is a bit of a strain. Its hard to support that level of healing as just one person, with a relatively limited energy supply.

Also, do you still get insulted if the other monk is a Protection Monk and you're a healer? Since they're filling a completely different niche?

Moral: Don't confuse inefficiency with practicality. a six man group can (and does quite well) run on one monk, but 8 is an unnecessary strain.

have the people that complain about monks ever tried really playing one? Probably not, they are not the easiest class to play and yes if we do good then people say so, but the same goes for if we do something bad we get yelled at or told we suck etc...its gotta be one of the most stressful posiotions to play in any game. Even if for some reason (which happens alot) that the mob the group is taking out hits the warrior 3 times with crits then warrior goes down, often I hear why didnt you heal me, well its really hard sometimes to pull off a heal in 2 seconds so again its the monks fault. Oh and soloing with a healing monk is completely out of the question, now Im talking about a pure healing monk, not one with smite and healing. Therefore the monk is not as "self sufficient" as people make them out to be. There are no healing druids, clerics, shamans, or any other type of priest class in this game, just one and that is the monk, so of course you hear alot of people asking for them...duh. In pvp and what seems like pve the monk is 1st on the hitlist and if the group isnt paying attention then bye bye healer, so ontop of watching out for yourself tremendously you're constantly looking at HP bars of others and have to be quick on the reflexes, plus our ability to heal ourselves isnt that great at all, so that is why it is more or less a necessity to have a 2nd or 3 rd monk in the group so they can help heal other monks. Monks are not played by just everyone, it takes a certain person I think IMO to play a pure healing class, and if you were to nerf a monk then we would start getting, "monks cant heal worth a crap and my party keeps dying" So I say before we start thinking monks are over powered and all that, go roll yourself a monk and play with him, Im not just talking a low level one, play him past ascending and in tombs then come back and state your post. I'll bet your attitude will have changed about them by then lol

It doesnt matter how many monks you have in PvP, you are always the first target, and the first to die. And the first to die after you get rezed.


In PvE, you need 1 monk and thats it.



Im going to level up my monk and elementalist character on PvE, and im gonna get every elite skill I can find. And try to unlock every rune. Then im going to create a PvP E/Mo, with knockdown air skills, heal party, and maximum energy storage. Then Im gonna kick some PvP butt. Im gonna stay way back, spam heal party, and if any warrior comes after me, Im gonna knock em down or take them out. Or i'll use water skills and slow theyr movement so I can run away.

Primary monks in PvP are just useless because of enemy tactics.

- oh, well...if you can tell me who go through hells precipe without primary monk or two, just note me

there are missions which can be go through without primary monks if you are stronger than mobs there, but in long run at least one healer is must have on teams (dont have to argue the fact)

"Basically, monks are fine as they are"

agreed

Actually, as a ranger I can go through hells precipe with another ranger, an elementist and henchmen. (of course 2 of them are monks).

And I do play a monk. Yes it is taxing and challenging. No, we should not take away from there ablities.

Primehealer, I think you would support my stance then. Other classes could use to have there own defensics as to help you control the damage in team of 8.

Lets consider again the monk boss I was talking about. He could heal himself, but the couldnt take us out. So whats happening here is a class that can completely defence or completley use offence.

Apply that to a warrior. A warrior could turtle into a defence. Here he can block with great success. But he cant attack. If he does, then he cant block. In another stance (mirror shield) he redirects elemental damage back to the caster at half the damage, but while its activated, he cant attack. How to get around this? A smiting monk attacks could go around his armor and stances completely. As well as some other tricks that necros or mesmers may have. But long as warrior doesnt fight, he should at least survive.

Rangers the same but with evasion. He's in an evasive stance that he cant use any skills in, just basic attacks or a run that increases the time to set a trap by 33% while in the stance but the next trap takes 50% longer to do. How do I get around it? Hit em with moves that cant be evaded.

...and another thing. Have that charm animal skill taking up a slot do something for you. Like calling your animal swiftly to your postion and not attacking at all. As long as hes in this "stance" he's in rest mode and his health bar will eventually go back up. (you know, like everyone elses does went they arent fighting) How do I stop it? Hit the pet once do prevent the regen, or continue to attack the pet and kill him.

Mesmers the same but with illusions, ...Ive already list some examples of that earlier.

But you get my drift.

In the end, these things dont make them impossable to stop or get around. It just means you have to know your enemy and adjust to the unexpected.

These are just random brainstorming ideas. Someone earilier mention that adding these defence capablities to armor istead would be neat. Ok, maybe. Whatever gets the job done to make it possable. The idea is to allow monks to be a most helpful addition and not a neccesary asset.

And I already know that they are not as needed as some would generally assume. (like I said, it is possable to do hells precipe without'em, cuz I did) However, the general assumtion is a reflection of the games balance. I think my example about the monk boss is too.

In PvP if there are 2 or 3 monks then you could stand the chance of being the second or third person to be targetted. Allowing you time to heal the first or second targetted monk.

AMEN. Lower my armour any more than it already is, and we won't last 2 seconds. As it is I'm always the first target, and I can't heal my team if I'm dead.

I'm also think that monks are a bit to important for a team in the game.

I see a few reasons for this
PvE and PvP
1. Monks are basically essencial as most other classes are not capable of self heal on a suffecient level (unless they are /mo ofcourse). The primary monks on the other hand compensates for this bigtime. I don't know how many times a whole party dies only a short time after the monk has been slain.

PvP.
Usually the monk is the number one target to kill, because even if there're other targets, anyone that gets killed will be up and running around 7-11 seconds after he's been slayed if the other teams monk is alive and kicking.

I'm not saying that they're overpowered, but other classes are not really good enough att self healing, meaning that a monk is basically mandatory for any team. I think that it's ok that a team needs one monk, but I don't like that adding another monk into a team is a safer card then gambling on a crappy <insert any class here other then monk>.

The balance between the monks single target healing capabilities vs. other classes self healing could use some adjustements.
If it was up to me, I'd increase the recharge time for monk single target monk healing spells but maybe strengthen the mass healing spells (and improve self healing for other classes).

every party needs a monk. it is to survive. there is no complex reason to why people need monks. it is not that they are overpowered. it is that when someone is a monk it is EASY to find a party because they can HEAL eveyone.

as for comparing to a ranger; a ranger benefits a team less. rangers are a great soloing class due to their ability to have a pet, their quick speed, their self healing, their stances and their high damaging arrows. i don't see mesmers getting shafted in parties so i don't see why you'd mention this. actually most parties will take any class as long as they have a warrior or 2 and a monk. if you're getting left out of parties maybe its because the people don't like you ..

Ok, I understand now You've only played Arena PvP, judging by this statement. The depth of tactics in the Arena is essential "OMGWTF a Monk rush him kill kill kill!" and then the entire enemy team pours over the hill at you. Yes, the Monk tends to get murdered this way, generally because his teammates suck and aren't doing anything to prevent it. Primary Monks are the lifeblood of any good team, and sometimes you get people who don't understand that.

Secondly, your Elem/Mo build isn't going to do you much better as a healer. Heal Party is an incredibly inefficient way to do healing, as most likely your whole party won't be damaged at once, and furthermore, since you don't have Divine Favor, you can only heal for a whopping 67 points of damage per cast. Add that to the fact that it costs 15 energy, and you're already in the hole for energy because you're spamming attack skills (Including Gale, which causes Exhaustion) in an attempt to peel people off you, and you'll see you're probably in even more trouble than you were if you're a primary Monk. Being an Elementalist, you're still a priority target, after all.

Sounds like to me you're just disillusioned. Don't give up, is all I can say, and don't take a no brained bum rush to be the end all be all of PvP.

I hope this doesnt turn into a "monks are powerful and need to be nerfed" thread.

I'll reinterate my main points so you can understand and not think that, that was ever my point or reason for posting this.

- A healing monks skills are relivent for any situation when he is on a team, no other class has this benefit.
- The monks class in general has a offencive and defencive balance. He can spam skills for attack or spam skills to survive. No other class has this benefit.


I dont think we can help the fact that healing monks are perfect for any situation. That would nerf the class, and its to late for that.

I do think we can beef the other classes so people dont feel like they need a monk if they dont want one.

(Also, Ive given suggestions here as to help those more situational class prepare for or work within a given situation.)

I see what some of you are saying to a point. Though a offensive monk is not a good a healer as a pure healing monk. To be a big heals healer you need to have all your points in Divine Favor and Healing Prayers, now unless you sunk tons of hours into acuiring enough skills points to have Smite and the other 2 at full capabilities (which most people dont have) then youve got to choose whether or not you want to big a big heals healer or a backup smite healer. I for one play a pure healing monk, meaning I hae no offensive skills in my lineup, so If Im being attacked I depend on others to save me, I cannot spam protection or smite skills due to the fact I only heal.
Now If you beef up other classes so if they dont want to have a monk in their party they dont need one, then what is the point in having monk class at all? As it is now not enough people want to play monks. For all you people that say (and I hear this alot in game) El/mo or Mes/mo can heal better than a primary monk, I think that is a false statement, due to the lack of Divine favor skills if you go monk secondary then you cannot "big heals" party members (Divne Boon) yea you may have more energy but that doesnt mean much in the long run especially if you are being drained and just healing people as your energy regens itself, you need big heals to keep parties alive. As for monk bosses they can easily be killed with mesmers or just enough damage dealers, Ive seen many monk bosses go down real quick without much resitance.I guess I just dont understand what the big deal is with this "monk" issue. The class is probably one of the hardest to play therefore not alot of people play them, they are the ones who get yelled at and called names for not doing thier jobs, pure healers cannot save themselves they depend on others, monks all around have a very insufficent way of healing themselves and again depend on others, our armor is pretty weak and a few hits and we are down. We are all in this game together and there is only one healing class, if anything break up the monk into different healing classes (maybe a regen monk, direct heals monk, and some kind of wards monk) but I doubt that would happen. So maybe we do get a lttle bit if a "reward" for playing a monk, but if we get one we get one for doing our work as one, not just being some godly character that can do whatever he wants and get into any group that we want.

There's nothing wrong having a healing class in GW. Just like there's nothing wrong with having doctor as a profession in real life. Those who complain monks being too important and should be eliminated, when was the last time you went to see your family doctor? Don't doctors deserve to get respect for what they do and pressure they're under? If you see your doctor often, you deserve to live longer than those who don't seek medical attention, agree? Hence the football team with team physician present can stay longer on the field, that's just common sense. Why are their skills important in every situation? Because we all can get sick and injured, that's why. Anyone objects this simple logic?

Before I get on topic i'd like to say that the people whining that secondary monks are as good as primary monks are very very wrong. I've played both an E/Mo(81 power) and a primary monk up past ascenion and there is no comparison; monks heal better.

Anyway, I think the problem in PVE (And PVP but less so) is that the monk bosses are balanced against 8 players. They have WAY too much endurance. They just never run out of power. They can keep themselves alive FOREVER. If after 2 minutes of chain healing themselves they were down to 3 energy like a player would be it wouldn't be a problem.

Goonter is mainly talking about how monk bosses in PvE are extremely difficult compared to other profession bosses and he would like other profession bosses to have the endurance or tactics of a monk boss.