Deity vs. Deity instead of Country vs. Country

In an earlier post here i summed up some of the things that bothered me most with GW, one of the things that bothered me is the Country vs. Country HoH competition, now Goonter made a pretty swell suggestion that i think everyone should take a look at (especialy Anet)


So what do you think about this? Would you rather have this then C vs C?

If you have any other ideas feel free to post 'em of course.

I was actually thinking about simply giving the winning Guild the favor of the gods instead of their entire server, i mean, they won, not the server.

Since it is PvP guilds who unlock the favour of the gods, and PvE players who benefit from it..there is no way that would work.

I can see how some people may have problems with the Country V Country side of this game, but I myself am yet to run into anyone openly making racist comments because of it.

However, if it is a problem then changing the names to those of the Guild Wars gods may be a wise decision.

The Deieties in GW are linked to your class.
Necro / water elemental = Grenth
Warrior/ Fire elemental = Balthazar
Monk/ air elemental = Dwayna
Mesmer = Lissa
Ranger/ earth elemental = Malendru
Replacing Countries with Deieties, though there would be exceptions, would turn PvP into Class versus Class

The country thing is fine as is and I know this might rock your world but not everyone joins guilds or does PvP but they still need the favor of the gods to do special PvE quests. So, it would be wrong to force these people to do HoH just so they can go to the underworld. The countries that don't win favor just need to try harder or suck it up.

I love the idea, it makes the gods more important. It would take a pretty big overhaul though, but if it were implemented I'd be pretty thrilled I think.

I believe Country vs Country helps for the server latency a lot, tho I haven't studied gw server architecture but I bet servers are localised in the location of the zones they host, that would be common sense to me at least.

but I 100% agree on the racism part wich is hella sad.
I know it's offtopic but the last patch added language zone separation! and I must say that's an orrible Idee! I know we (europe) got loads of ppls who don't care talking in their own language (especialy french and german)(i speak french) but well we can live with it but now spliting everyone in his own country language zone makes me feel sad.. trying to make europe one big entity in the real world while games tend to split us (u don't know how sad I was when I heard about server localisation on WoW).

sorry for the offtopic'ing

I don't really like that, i love the idea of competing country vs country, what i think needs to change, is more responsibility on our side, to stop the racism... instead of laughing at what they say (not saying you do, just replying this way), just tell them not to do it, and if it's in the local channel, you report them... like i stated in a post already that i was starting to do... i really cant stand the racism the way it was, and i plan on making a difference, anybody else can follow, or they can sit back and just complain about it...

I do not find things such as "die koreans" to be racist, i find that to be more of a competative taunt, in which case, i wont report that... calling them dirogative(sp) names is just blatantly moronic, and i don't understand what makes people act in such a way... it really bothers me...


Besides, if these dieties account for certain class, or even just certain guilds... then people would just choose the one that wins the most... i think it would ruin the competition... sorry but it would add too much of a change, i think it works fine the way it is, even tho i dont see euro control it much : (

It's normaly korean all night, and american/sometimes euro during my daytime... heh

I probably wouldn't mind it if it was not named after two specific countries, America and Korea. Korean's have a massive hate-on for America (who doesn't these days?) and it seems (I admit this to be speculation and am open to be told I'm wrong) that America is also racist against asian countries (except Japan) and (this part not speculation) way way way over nationalistic. I just feel uncomfortable with being reminded every few minutes that America and Korea (regardless of the nationalities of those actually playing) are against each other. I would like it just as much if the American server was given a fictional name (Ascalon?) and Asia (Lion's Arch?) and Europe (Shiverpeaks?). Then it wouldn't be so bad to see continuously "Ascalon has taken the favor of the gods from Lion's Arch, Lion's Arch must win 5 times to get the... etc. etc."

I don't really think that would help too much, considering we'd all still know the country by its name... it's not hard to pick out the korean language... and well... racism from kids will never stop... even tho i could have sworn that they teach us how to not be racist in those lower grades... maybe i just dont remember right... but i mean, dont they have korean/asian friends... or black friends... or mexican friends... or anything really... how can people be so racist, when surrounded by different races all the time? it actually blows my mind, and i really cant understand it.

Yay, someone liked my idea! :P

As the games story tells, though the deities are believed to repesent the class in GW, the classes are not subject to be loyal to anyone of them or only one of them.

At character creation it would make since that the majority of players would select the diety that fits thier class. But why live with that? By the time you make it to the Temple of Ages you would see and understand the benefit of changing to something else. Thats why its important to make it avalible for players to change.

Imagine it like this:
Korea has won the favor of the god Grenth.
"OMG I love Korea" now I can farm underworld and get the great loot that only underworld could provide. Then I think to myself,...Ive done underworld, I want to do Fissure instead. I change dieties and then:
America has won the favor of the god Balthazar.
In Fissure, there are different challenges and different rewards than found in Underworld that can help and support any class.

As these annoucments are on everyones chat log. A lot of people with the selected deity would hurry to the temple of ages, finding people wouldnt be much more of a hassle. If your in a guild that likes to pve, youve all probably already centralized which deity you serve.

Heres another idea I though would help the idea kick off:
Before each match in pvp the game would roll the number of people that did a favor of the gods pve quest, and by some crazy math that would equate a + whatever moral boost.

This could help do away with that prematch wraith killing bonus quest at Tombs. While its great for a morale boost, even still if no one had to do it, everyone would still be on equal grounds, so its kind of a irritating most.

Next match, the game would roll the number of people that have recently completed it again, ...so on and so forth. Maybe these quest could be unlocked by pvp'ers getting the favor of the gods.
Now we have some synergy. Both types of players are helping each other help themselves. Its a constant, helpful, roleplaying and competitive cycle.

Of course, it would have to open up for quest in to other deities.

Think about this. If this is the way it started do you think people would be complaining, "Favor of the gods needs to be given by country not by deities."?
It would be less likely because the thought wouldnt have entered the imagination. And if you did feel this way and said something about it, you might have been recieved by: "No, its fine just the way it is"
So there will always be differances of opinon. And a lot of times, people arent comfortable with change of any kind.

In the end, I think that this would help and not hurt the game. Unless, Anet has a server infrustruture that makes this impractical. Then, oh well, thats that. Maybe something else would work,...or maybe nothing at all.
But if not, it wouldnt work against us in the slightest.

What if guilds were just randomly slotted into one of x colours (probably six)? I mean, yes there may be some imbalancing if by chance the powerful guilds were put into the same colour section, but it should in theory be fairly evenly spread between the options. When you form your guild, you're simply told which colour you will be representing. Or when you create your character you're told, so people who aren't in guilds dont' suffer. That way one of your chars could get the benefits of having the favour, while your others don't at the time - explore with the one char until favour changes.

Oh wow, i guess i misread something somebody else was trying to post about your idea... the way you make it sound, that sounds like it could work, and be pretty fun... seeing how the gods are sooner or later going to all have lvls, and all have multiple lvls... so yea... it could be workable...

Actually, now that I think about it. Select a deity at character creation is pointless. Select the diety at the temple of ages. That way only pve characters need to and would benift from this. Pvp characters, it wouldnt make a differance anyhow. If a pvper is in a guild then he plays for the guilds deity. If the guild feels that pve community is supporting one god over another and they want the bonus, they take the challenge of that god (or whatever), and change thier deity. Or they can change it for someother reason. Whatever floats thier boat.

What would be important is that both pve'ers and groups that pvp couldnt instantanously switch gods. It would come at some time and with some challenge as to not cause instant shifts in both communities.

Then may be an issue with people that PUG in pvp. Not a wise group of people, but they shouldnt be left out. In such a condition...random repesentation would be fine. The randomness could be controlled by pve characters that pvp in Tombs. If a majority have a selected deity, it would increase the likelyhood of you repesenting that god.

....i dont know.... Its all still a brainstorming idea. With testing and stuff, balance would be worked out.

I dont see how changing the name would make any difference what-so-ever. Americans would still play one deity, and korea and europe a different one. What's the point?

If you think this promotes racism i'd hate to see your take on the Olympics.

gotta love all the PC carebears in the world

Well, its not just changing the names. Korea could win for Grenth or for Balthazar or for Lyssa or whoever.

In fact, you cant omit the names of the countries that won at all. It could look like this:

Grenth has the favor of the gods.

Then that one guy in Lybia would be like, "Sweeet, I can go to underworld now."

I only added the names of the countries as an example of how I could like what Korea is doing for me, instead of doing against me. But, its not nesscery at all.

good job goonter i like this idea, it sounds alot more cohesive, and managable , you could even make the morale boost of whatever god somehow factored in by how many ppl following that god are online i.e. more worshipers, the more of a boost . however that would need to be minimal for any type of balance :P

GREAT IDEA!!!

I was ashamed of my last team in the HoH who did exactly this... I was ashamed to be there with them. I told the Korean team while waiting for resurrection that they had done an excellent job and deserved the win. I don't even know if they understood me or not, but I hope they did.

You shouldn't have to ask, 'Hey... if we lost to Korea, you're not going to make some stupid comment about dogs, are you? Because if you are, tell me now so I don't waste my time sticking around you .'

People who use this game to berate and denigrate others simply because they are from another place are, of course, only demonstrating their own ignorance and pathological issues.

@evil.E - When your temporal lobes fill in, you'll understand things much better, kid.

There should be no difficulty in changing the real countries that are competing on different servers with fictional ones.

I actually liked the country idea when I first played the game---it seemed kind of like a video game olympics. But the racism has gotten way out of hand.

At least here in the States, there seem to be a lot of poor losers. I don't know if it is the same on the other servers, but my guess would be that it isn't as severe. Only the US seems to insist that we are #1 at everything, even in cases where it is incorrect.

It is also odd that racists would call another group of people who beat them inferior.

But there you go. Welcome to Bush's america.

Poppinjay

"Enough of this feaces, this is a pathetic "WAAAHHH NERF!" thread...Locked." -Principa Discordia

Koreans/Asians have (sort of) developed our hatred for them. While it isn't right to be racist people do have their reasons.

There are a number of them, but the biggest is likely that they tend to play on our servers in alot of games. My personal opinion after playing alot of MMORPGs is that you should play on a server dedicated to your own language. Noone is going to force you but there is no way to make an american guild hate a european guild faster then getting beat to every spawn in a game like everquest simply because our prime time is different. In games like diablo 2 you see alot of lag because people don't respect the localized servers and play elsewhere. The list goes on and on (for instance, the pac rim guilds destroying the intire entropy server on shadowbane by baning the americans when we were all asleep).

Also, we see alot of farming from people we assume are korean because they don't speak english. It actually pays fairly well to farm and 80% of that is outsourced to asia.

Some people just can't stand the shorthand and alot of the playstyles we see from korea that seem as if they are coming from a player pressed for time (they are, alot of highschool kids play at internet cafees during lunch/free periods ect). There is an immense cultural difference in the way we play these games and it shows, it causes alot of conflict.

But now that i've blathered on and on; Personally when I see someone say something racist about koreans I simply reply "Just because they always beat you in PVP dosen't mean you have to say they eat dogs." I then go on my merry way. It's not worth getting angry over, it's not going to stop.

Changing it to diety seems like it might work but at the same time there are so many issues with implementing a system like this that it probably isn't worth it. I doubt the devs will change that as I really don't think it's high on the list of important things to deal with. Add more diverse PVP matches or make people fight for a different team? Easy choice.

perhaps one day you'll grow a sack and not come off sounding like a flaccid little mama's boy.

"Oh noes my teammates insulted the Korean's... I'm so ashamed.. I must make ammends and hope that they understand I'm not like them. Oh I hope they don't hate me for this now."

I'm not saying it's right but FFS who cares? Perhaps in your petty little carebear world you imagine that making fun of them eating fido will get them so depressed and distraught that they end up killing themselves. Here's a newsflash, if they're playing an online game I highly doubt that they're so poor that they actually eat dogs. It'd be the same as me ribbing some guy from the south about eating road kill while we're both drinking coffee at Starbucks.

But I'm guessing that since this offended you so deeply that you were prolly the kid in school that ran to the teacher everytime anyone made fun of you. However in a place I like to call grown up world I highly doubt that some crap typed out by some moron over an ocean away gets little more reaction then "What an A--hole!".

Ironically that's prolly what you're saying right now. Funny how that works isn't it?

You didn't disprove their point...in fact, you may have reaffirmed their position. You should definitely just drop it...people can have different views, with neither being right or wrong.

Well, AAAANYways.. ....Racisim isnt the only reason for this to idea to click. It has its other benefits. People all over have the same advantages and oppertunitys. It helps the PvP and PvE comminuty work for each other. Thats noting a few.

Point = proven. Got to love being right.

p.s.: Women don't have sacks. So tell me, did yours drop yet, kid?

@Goonter -- Agreed. Juvenile stupidity like racial jibes when you get your butt handed to you have no place in a game.

*just want to point out that using racist insult doesn't make you racist*

not that I use racist insults myself (tho I'm fond of racist jokes but that's another topic). but from reading you it appears that some of you believe that anyone who insults the oposing team (on the only thing they know about it (it's nationality)) makes him a racist.

tho i'm totaly against it, tho when korean are insulting us it makes me laugh, nothing more.. and I feel my mates are prety stupid when they do.
that's it. no big deal imo.

btw, my best friend is korean and I use to call him "the yellow one" does it makes me racist ?

ok that's a bit off topic.

But one who uses racist insults should not be surprised at being identified as a racist. One can only know you from your actions. If you actions are racist, then it is reasonable to assume that there are racists thoughts behind them.

Further, lots of people who are in fact racist, or bigots, don't self-identify with racism or other forms of bigotry. Fundamentalist Christians deny being bigots even as they continually act to limit gay rights. And I have heard many people say statement which follow the following template: "I dont hate (black people/asians/homosexuals/indians/people from the middle east) but...(some racist statement)."


Poppinjay

"Enough of this feaces, this is a pathetic "WAAAHHH NERF!" thread...Locked." -Principa Discordia

What your moderators think of you.

That's a valid point. I also enjoy racist jokes (they're funny, admit it) and sometimes say things that sound racist but my friends know that the sentiment behind it is not as such.

<Equal oportunity offender.

A joke is a joke because it is funny... How funny you think something is often depends upon how true you think it is... jokes that are based upon another race being stupid, prone to do X, or thinking like Y are based upon the concept that you are somehow superior to that behavior because you are one race and the butt of the joke is of another.

So yes, generally speaking, if you enjoy bigotry as a means of expressing your superiority, and find jokes that support your bigotry amusing, chances are you are, indeed, a bigot.

And yes, if you believe because they are X and you are Y, that makes it funny, then chances are, indeed, you are a racist to boot.

As society understands and embraces how our humor and thinking affect our ability to progress as a species and live in harmony upon the planet, things like seperatism and bigroty naturally become less and less rewarded. One day, jokes will be about bigots and racists... instead of about the folks they hated.

Personally, I look forward to it.

supperior ? ever heard of the word different ?

we're all different so why not joke about it


anyway this is getting more and more offtopic

Different does not imply inferiority. Jokes do. Get it?

I just don't agree.

Obviously. I suppose it makes some feel better to have another to put down. But that says more about the flagging esteem than anything.

It's never a 'big deal' to those who do it. And they never seem to have the level of awareness to understand why it is to those they do it to.... shameful, really.

I believe there is large about of confussion here is because what really makes a person a racisit or anything of that nature is thier intentionality. (imo) Not so much of the words that fly out of there mouths. Take for instances a child thats brutally honest. He may not be able to judge you by how different you are, but he will say things that remind you of how different you are, because a child will say whats on his mind.

Words in themselves are not really that offencive. They are just sounds. Its whats behind the words thats upsetting. So in some instances a person may call me something ugly. When I know I can call him something ugly back and we both find it funny, we have an understanding, we are equals, we probably share a bond. If another person says the exact same thing and I dont know him, then we have a problem.

We live in a world that often takes words directed towards us at face value. Because of this, I found it best to say things about people that I want them to hear, as it may shape thier opinion about themselves and about me. I dont want people to feel infurior, and I dont want people to look at me as if Im suprior. (which usually backfires anyhow, and people would think Im a dumbass or a jerk instead)

Racisim has its degrees. A lot of people that are racisit in america today dont even know they are. Ive had to and a lot of other people I know had to come from under old ideas and generalizations about people into a new realization of people of different cultures.

Have you BEEN to the Temple fo Ages when the USA doesn't have favor? It's "Damn Koreans" and "I hate Korea" every 5 seconds!

I do not like the intentional segregation of country. Look at this, why are we America? Why aren't we North America? And Korea, Asia? I mean they conglomerated the European (Germany, Great Britian, Poland, Italy) countries into Europe. If it were changed then to continent, then you if you say D*** Asians instead of D*** Koreans it is a lot larger spectrum of societes. Because Asia includes Russia (Yes Russians are asians), All of the Gulf Arab Countries, China, India etc... You are not just hating KOREANS or AMERICANS. Again for some reason I feel that the Europeans have lead the way for unity. This would be a very easy fix to the problem and would take a simple renaming of server districts.

As far as racism goes, I do not care for it, nor partake in it. But, the 1st Admentment is the freedom of Speech. I feel that if these people paid their $ for the game then they have as much right to offend as defend any issue, topic or belief as they please. As much as anyone else.

My guess is that the Koreans make as much fun of the Americans, as the Americans do the Koreans. Plus they know what we (Americans)are saying about them, but Americans generally dont know what they are saying about us. Cause one thing you must keep in mind is that most people around the world speak/understand english as a 2nd language. Where as very few Americans speak a 2nd language.

The whole point behind country vs country is to bring up your chances of having a group of people who all speak one language.

And anyone who hates one country just because another country took control..

Is a Eff'in idiot who needs take another try at a thing called "Rational Thinking".

You think that is for language sake that they have country vs country? What about Europe where you drive for 4 hours in any direction and you are in a new country speaking another language? Yet they have a single server labled EUROPE. They have servers dedicated for language from the recent updates, so that people to choose to speak in say spanish can go to the spanish server and speak spanish.

I concure with your "Rational thinking" theory, and do my best to adhere to it.

Even with the deity vs deity..teams name are still in german/english/korean..

So even so..there would still be racial discrimination.

Is the conclusion that we will never eliminte racism?

Although I say do not judge a book by its cover. Most all of my characters have Arabic names, but I am a true blue American.

I just disagree with the seperation of Korea and America servers while Europe is united. I feel that our Canadian gamers should maybe say something about this. I know they HATE being lumped in with America. I vote for a server name change to North America, and Asia. Even if we discriminate against continents then at least we are doing it as a unified people from our part of the hemisphere. j/k

what exactly are you right about? the fact that you're overly sensitive? well then you proved that in spades. so you claim you're a woman well growing a sack also means grow up and open your eyes.

Oh and as for the utterly lame trash talk on your part, please try harder next time. OMG you insulted my manhood and called me a kid. Well by your rational you should feel ashamed and be falling all over yourself trying to apologize. please spare the whole self righteous act you're putting on.

tell me are you one of those people that sees a starving child on the television says "how awful, someone should do something about that." then goes about eating their dinner? Ah hypocrisy got to love it.

IMO the premise of this whole thread has no point other then making some overly sensitive types feel better about themselves. so instead of saying korea we call it Dwayna BFD. do you really think that's gonna stop anyone from spewing the fido jokes? Perhaps in carebear land things work that way but in the real world as soon as the first bit of korean text appears on the screen the fido jokes will resume. Or are you just overlooking the fact that korean players' names are displayed in korean text?

If the point here is to make it so that players' countries are transparent, then you've got a long road ahead of you before you actually get something like that to work the way you want it to. I'm also willing to bet that the devs have a lot better things to do then cater to a few folks that get their panties in a bunch everytime someone says something mean to another player.

I guess most of you here are American?
Because there is nothing less unified than Europe, in the game, and in RL, especialy now that Anet made seperate servers for each language.

The standard Euro player: only wants to join guilds of his own nationality
The standard <country name here> player: only wants to join parties or guild of his own nationality
The true nationalist: only joins, trades, speaks with people of his own nationalty.

The worst part is that in Europe you can clearly see where someone comes from by his language, although they'll have that in the Korean server too, i suppose.

Anyways, i think you should be assigned a deity when you create your char, so the amount of followers will all be equal, and you should not or only at a very high cost be able to change your deity, or else everyone will be changing when the favor of the gods is gained for a specific deity.

ps: @Evil.e + The Virago, can we just ignore each other in peace and drop off-topic posts?

Oops, after actualy taking the time to read evil.E's last post i concluded that he really is a moron and just came on this thread to throw a fight with someone and that he didn't and still doesn't have any intentions to read or contribute to this thread.