Please fix the balance. - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Axelia

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2005

04 Jun 2005 at 14:26 - 1

I believe this is a valid complaint here. I went solo for this test in Elonas just to get this capture sequence. I do not want to upload more than 2 images to save space so I am posting the two most important pieces of evidence. I will document the remaing missing pictures.

On the opening shot, I did 20 damage to the minotuar. They both charged and hit my trap one hit me for 16 and the other hit me for 25 which falls within reason. I shot one for 30 and get hit for 25. Again this is not a problem and falls within the balance. But look at this next picture. It is way out of line for balance. they both hit me for 69. I could have used heal here but I wanted to keep the arrows flying. This is about damage versus near level mobs and balance.

[IMG]gw011.JPG[/IMG]

Now again I hit for 15 and take 18. Shot for 13 get hit for 24 and 46. Him for 14 get hit for 18 and 20. Within reason but now the kicker. The killing blow! Even his Mighty Blow is less than a regular attack.

[IMG]gw015.JPG[/IMG]

If this is balanced then I am ...................

The Red Knight

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2005

Zero Files Remaining [LaG]

R/Mo

04 Jun 2005 at 15:22 - 2

No your basically a ranger shooting at a warrior then a nice soft pin cushion that is a caster

. No rangers do not suck there just increadibly hard to solo with =[

Axelia

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2005

04 Jun 2005 at 15:46 - 3

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Red Knight

No your basically a ranger shooting at a warrior then a nice soft pin cushion that is a caster

. No rangers do not suck there just increadibly hard to solo with =[

Even against a ranged mob the damage is not balanced. Look at this and tell me it is balanced. Even with my percision shot and my skills maxed at 16 the most damage I could do would be 57. Yet this guy hits me for 108 not only that but he is peppering me with 60+ damage a hit while I do like 11. Markmanship is 11. If this is balance then I am done with this game.

In order to do the equivlent damage I would have to drop to this.

gw008.jpg

Tellani Artini

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

America

The Kansas City Hotsteppers [KCHS]

R/

04 Jun 2005 at 16:11 - 4

Why are you letting them hit you? Aren't they crippled after they hit your barbed trap? Why not just storm chaser off and set another? And penetrating shot will fix your damage. Rangers have evasion skills for a reason.

Lack of imagination != lack of balance

Dagbiker

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Maryland

04 Jun 2005 at 16:19 - 5

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tellani Artini

Why are you letting them hit you? Aren't they crippled after they hit your barbed trap? Why not just storm chaser off and set another? And penetrating shot will fix your damage. Rangers have evasion skills for a reason.

Lack of imagination != lack of balance

that might be true in the real world, but this isnt the real world.

imagination means nothing when confined by borders, in a world in a box, the top is the limit.

Greentongue

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2005

Orlando, FL

04 Jun 2005 at 16:28 - 6

Distance -vs- Melee
If you choose to melee with a distance fighter, what do you expect the outcome to be? There are Many options for keeping your targets at a distance, use them.
( Charm Pet being a common one. )

Because you can damage a target at a distance, your damage output is expected to be less. You should be doing your normal damage and taking ... NONE.

Melee criticals are supposed to be high damage. There are even Skills designed specificly to reduce the number of hits / criticals you take.

Tellani Artini

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

America

The Kansas City Hotsteppers [KCHS]

R/

04 Jun 2005 at 16:32 - 7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dagbiker

that might be true in the real world, but this isnt the real world.

imagination means nothing when confined by borders, in a world in a box, the top is the limit.

Ok. I'm just saying Axelia should try some different techniques before crying unbalance. Standing there and getting hit is not the top of the box for a ranger, by far.

Dagbiker

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Maryland

04 Jun 2005 at 16:38 - 8

i aggree, im just trying to say that there is no way to be absilutly "flexibal" in this game

Axelia

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2005

04 Jun 2005 at 16:43 - 9

You all miss the point here. This is about PC damage vers mob damage. I damn well know to run, use whirling defense, etc,etc...

What I am trying to point out is the mobs damages exceeds 4 time the players output. Now in PvP is IS matched but in PvE is is way out of balance

EcPercy

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

04 Jun 2005 at 16:51 - 10

Everyone is trying to help here. A ranger is not designed to fight up close. Look at your clothes. One thing you have to realize is that you are not a tank. Thats the final answer.

Tellani Artini

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

America

The Kansas City Hotsteppers [KCHS]

R/

04 Jun 2005 at 16:55 - 11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axelia

You all miss the point here. This is about PC damage vers mob damage. I damn well know to run, use whirling defense, etc,etc...

What I am trying to point out is the mobs damages exceeds 4 time the players output. Now in PvP is IS matched but in PvE is is way out of balance

I think it's balanced perfectly when a lazy ranger gets beaten down by two minotaurs whose levels are pretty close to theirs. What do the raw numbers matter? You have so many advantages over those minotaurs it's almost silly.

You think it's bad in the desert, just wait..

Dagbiker

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Maryland

04 Jun 2005 at 16:56 - 12

i do beleave there is imbalance, perhaps not with the ranger "tanking" (i hate sterotyping like that ) though

Axelia

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2005

04 Jun 2005 at 17:03 - 13

Quote:

Originally Posted by EcPercy

Everyone is trying to help here. A ranger is not designed to fight up close. Look at your clothes. One thing you have to realize is that you are not a tank. Thats the final answer.

I know I am not a tank. I never intended to be one. In most cases I run, whirling defense and set another trap but the damage I do compared to the mob is IMO totally unbalanced.

Silmor

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2005

04 Jun 2005 at 17:33 - 14

Could be two critical hits happening at the same time. Minotaurs are strength puppies, they will be tearing through your armour at some point or another. If you want to run a lower risk of getting hit with criticals, avoid facing warriors and rangers.

Axelia

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2005

04 Jun 2005 at 17:43 - 15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silmor

Could be two critical hits happening at the same time. Minotaurs are strength puppies, they will be tearing through your armour at some point or another. If you want to run a lower risk of getting hit with criticals, avoid facing warriors and rangers.

Thanks first logical reply.

Question: What is the highest damage hammer in the game?

Silmor

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2005

04 Jun 2005 at 18:01 - 16

They max out at 35, calculate in armour piercing from strength and other factors, slight level difference and things can get nasty on occasion.

Axelia

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2005

04 Jun 2005 at 18:09 - 17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silmor

They max out at 35, calculate in armour piercing from strength and other factors, slight level difference and things can get nasty on occasion.

If the calculator is correct then ignoring my armor completely with a critical hit the maximum damage that a minotaur could do is 57

Mercury Angel

Avatar of Gwen

Join Date: Apr 2005

Wandering my own road.

04 Jun 2005 at 18:11 - 18

About the mobs, nobody is stronger than them, pretty much.
Not saying you can't still kill or solo them, just that they tend to max out their attributes fast.

The boss you get Illusionary Weaponry from at the Iron Mines, for example, hits you for 42 damage per hit, which is 16 Illusion Magic attribute.

The Forgotten Cursebearer's Order of Pain does 16 additional life stealing, which is also 16 Blood Magic.

Unless you have superior runes, you're not matching them pound for pound in power. They pretty much require you to act smarter than the AI. (Even if you did match them in attributes, you'd be behind in HP)

Edit: For the calculator, did you calculate in the bonus for having 16 hammer mastery? It's not huge, but it should help make the calculations for damage more accurate.

Axelia

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2005

04 Jun 2005 at 18:17 - 19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercury Angel

Edit: For the calculator, did you calculate in the bonus for having 16 hammer mastery? It's not huge, but it should help make the calculations for damage more accurate.

Yes I did with a attrib of 16 (115%) and a critical hit 141% the total output from a single blow would not exceed 56.7865 (57 rounded up)

Silmor

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2005

04 Jun 2005 at 18:18 - 20

Well, we don't know if Minotaurs are restricted by the maximum damage hammers. The difference doesn't seem that drastic, and I don't think it's unreasonable for the high-end PvE to be slightly imbalanced in the favour of the monsters; players get coordinated parties, they get teams they can't choose, skills they can't choose and AI that only gives them a limited range of options.

Facing a level 28 enemy shouldn't be possible either because of the level cap, but it makes for a fun challenge. If you still want assured balance, play PvP - at least there you know whatever you're facing is restricted in the same ways you are.

Axelia

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2005

04 Jun 2005 at 18:31 - 21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silmor

Well, we don't know if Minotaurs are restricted by the maximum damage hammers. The difference doesn't seem that drastic, and I don't think it's unreasonable for the high-end PvE to be slightly imbalanced in the favour of the monsters; players get coordinated parties, they get teams they can't choose, skills they can't choose and AI that only gives them a limited range of options.

Facing a level 28 enemy shouldn't be possible either because of the level cap, but it makes for a fun challenge. If you still want assured balance, play PvP - at least there you know whatever you're facing is restricted in the same ways you are.

That was the point I was trying to make Silmor. The PvE matchup is out of balance. Even if it is slight it is still not balanced. If the rules are set for the player then the rules need to be set for the mobs as well.

You are most correct that PvP fights are fair and since I am a PvE player I am disadvantaged from get go.

Lucon

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

United States of A Level: 21

Travelers of Tyria

Me/R

04 Jun 2005 at 18:38 - 22

Try soloing with a mesmer and tell me how much you like it.

Dagbiker

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Maryland

04 Jun 2005 at 18:46 - 23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucon

Try soloing with a mesmer and tell me how much you like it.

this isnt helpfull.

Silmor

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2005

04 Jun 2005 at 18:54 - 24

Disadvantaged? Like I tried to point out, they have no brains, they have only a few skills they can use linked to attributes they can't influence, they have only one profession, they're forced to wait in one place until you're entirely prepared and ready to face them, they're stuck with one or a few similarly cursed fellows whereas you can take along seven people at once...

And you still think you are at a disadvantage from get go?

Axelia

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2005

04 Jun 2005 at 19:12 - 25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silmor

Disadvantaged? Like I tried to point out, they have no brains, they have only a few skills they can use linked to attributes they can't influence, they have only one profession, they're forced to wait in one place until you're entirely prepared and ready to face them, they're stuck with one or a few similarly cursed fellows whereas you can take along seven people at once...

And you still think you are at a disadvantage from get go?

Yes. The fact is that extra 24 damage is cheating weather you believe that or not. It breaks or bends the rules giving an advantage to the mob.

Silmor

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2005

04 Jun 2005 at 19:20 - 26

If you want to call that cheating, sure. I thought the discussion was about balance: they're at a significant disadvantage in everything except raw damage, so for proper balance they should be entitled to a bit more oompf.

Not to mention there might easily be something we're overlooking that would explain the damage, or your damage calculator could just be inaccurate. Either way, nobody really cares.

Sereng Amaranth

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

The Amazon Basin [AB]

04 Jun 2005 at 19:23 - 27

And even with this supposed imbalance, people get past it.

Kazahana

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

SoCal

W/E

04 Jun 2005 at 19:23 - 28

if the mobs were as strong as us but us being smarter then it would be unbalanced in our favor so consider thier extra dmg a balancing factor to make up for thier lack of intelligence.

i hate games that favor the player it makes them too easy.

Dagbiker

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Maryland

04 Jun 2005 at 19:24 - 29

the thing is you play by one set of rules: the abbility to have 8 skills, the abillity to run, the ability to rezerect even, and they play the game by another set of rules: have 3 maby 4 skills if there lucky, the inability to run, and the inibility to rezeruct. it is ballanced through the diversitys, not through the simularitys

Lucon

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

United States of A Level: 21

Travelers of Tyria

Me/R

04 Jun 2005 at 19:24 - 30

What is a mob?

Preferably, link me to an archive of Online RPG terms, of which mob is one.

Burem

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

East Coast USA

E/Me

04 Jun 2005 at 19:32 - 31

THE MOBS ARE NOT BALANCED AGAINST A SINGLE PLAYER. That encounter with the minotaur is in a mission you can bring alot more then a single ranger into. Stop whining. Balance? PVE balance? Wtf are you smoking.

(You're attacking a warrior mob, they are attacking a ranger. Stop being stupid.)

Sereng Amaranth

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

The Amazon Basin [AB]

04 Jun 2005 at 19:35 - 32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucon

What is a mob?

Preferably, link me to an archive of Online RPG terms, of which mob is one.

Its an old term coming from the beginnings of gaming. It refers to mobile objects or something like that. It is a slang term for any of the NPC (non-player character) monsters.

Vertical_Zer0

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

Ohio

Aiwevorn Tirith

R/Mo

04 Jun 2005 at 19:37 - 33

What, do you want the PvE area to be stupidly easy? Shaddup and play. The game is supposed to present a challenge - I don't want a game if I can just walk through it without even having to pause and think for a few seconds.

Rajamic

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

IA

Chronicles of Heroes [CoH]

R/Me

04 Jun 2005 at 19:38 - 34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axelia

Yes I did with a attrib of 16 (115%) and a critical hit 141% the total output from a single blow would not exceed 56.7865 (57 rounded up)

You are ignoring the way armor calculations work. The game works off of 60 armor being standard (AKA take 100% damage). If they have enough armor piercing that it is calculating with an armor value below 60 (I believe by that point in the story, Rangers can get 70 armor from collectors, or buy 61 armor), your defenses are actually ADDING damage. So if you are using the 61 armor and they have a 16 Strength (who knows, they might even have a stance that boosts past that), damage will be calculated as if you have only 45 armor. Referring to the Game Machanics guide shows that instead of taking just under 100% damage, you are now taking just under 130% damage. 56.7865 * 1.3 = 73.82245, which is a little higher than their 69 damage. So they aren't necessarily breaking the rules.

This same thing is how I was getting my Ithas bow to do over 100 damage to Charr with things like Power Shot and Penetrating Shot. Charr armor is so low that it boosts your damage.

I'm still a little suspicious of them both getting criticals that close together.

Really though, if you could take on enemies 2 on 1 with brute force, then where would the challenge be for a full team?

Eclair

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2005

04 Jun 2005 at 20:11 - 35

I say the mobs are took weak in the game, make them stronger =P

Silmor

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2005

04 Jun 2005 at 20:31 - 36

I doubt the argument here was for making monsters weaker, just some annoyance at dying coupled with the possibility of discovering isolated and partial unfairness in the game system.

Eclair

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2005

04 Jun 2005 at 20:40 - 37

Well in that case I think the game should be more unfair in favor of the monsters =D

Axelia

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2005

04 Jun 2005 at 20:49 - 38

If I was playing dice and found that they were loaded in favor of the house you can bet your ass I would stop playing that house. I would also remind the house that their rules strictly prohibit cheating which the house itself is doing.

Viruzzz

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

04 Jun 2005 at 20:55 - 39

monsters have higher attributes than you might just think, besides, its natural for them to hit you harder, you have less armor, and they are a level higher than you.

have you ever been to the underworld? the ataxe's hit for 130 something damage per hit. on a fully armored lvl 20 warrior.

they have higher weapon attributes than you might just think, and their "weapon" could very well be 20-50 dmg, we will never truly know, they are not unbalanced, they are just weilding other weapons, and have higher attributes than a single player.

and if they ise mighty blow, that means they use some type of hammer, and hammers have a lot of damage. they are bound to hit hard.

did you ever fight your mirror? try doing it at level 20 with the best armor and best weapon you can find. and he will still hit you harder than you can hit him.

edit: if you want balance. go play PvP, everyone has the same options there. monsters just NEED to be better than human players, they are AI units, against a player with an actual brain, they need some kind of advantage for them to be equal to the player. if you want to know exactly how much, go find a ranger monster same level as you, and max your marksmanship attribute, that will tell you what the difference is. you can't compare a ranger to a warrior.

Apophis Jaan

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

04 Jun 2005 at 21:23 - 40

The balance versus mobs isnt crucial, this is what parties are for and the henchmen. The balance in PVP is much more important, so I say if they can balance PVP at the result of a few professions being unable to solo, then so be it.