This is just a 'heads up', FYI note for anyone interested in the upcoming DirectSong features.
Please make sure you go review DirectSong's privacy policy before you register there blindly.
http://www.directsong.com/Privacy.asp
In a nutshell, they will use your private info for advertising/promoting, and they will sell this information to third parties.
The policy is extremely open to interpretation, which makes it that much easier for DirectSong to handle your registered information as they see fit.
Don't misread my intent with giving this heads up, I am all for the new music, but not for consequences.
DirectSong's Privacy Policy (FYI)
Ambre Finian
Mormegil
I read it and must agree with you.
Frankly, it couldn't be more open than that. A little bit more, and law wouldn't allow it.
Sweet.
Frankly, it couldn't be more open than that. A little bit more, and law wouldn't allow it.
Sweet.
Caco-Cola
Well they have to earn money some how.
But frankly I won't be buying the expansion now. I don't wish to be bombarded by 50,000 'Make your peen bigger!' advertisements.
But frankly I won't be buying the expansion now. I don't wish to be bombarded by 50,000 'Make your peen bigger!' advertisements.
deathwearer
tehehe not going to buy it.
Firax
Um. Sorry. You're just wrong. Unless you agree to it, they can't do anything by their own rules. You have to do something stupid first, like say they can use your info.
Quotes:
With user permission, Direct Song accesses personal information on behalf of pre-screened third parties for marketing or promotional purposes. We will always request permission to share such information on our Web Sites. You may elect not to participate by clicking the appropriate on-screen button.
*snip*
In some situations, we will share your personal information, on a confidential basis, with third parties who perform a particular service on our behalf, such as sending e-mails. These parties are not allowed to use personal information except for the limited purpose of providing the particular service on our behalf. (This preclude 'selling' of information, as that is doing not something on behalf of DirectSong. Unless DS wanted to send their own ads to you.) In addition, Direct Song receives personal usage and demographic information from third parties and uses this information to improve our products and services.
This policy is actualy sealed tighter than most PPs out there.
~Firax
Quotes:
With user permission, Direct Song accesses personal information on behalf of pre-screened third parties for marketing or promotional purposes. We will always request permission to share such information on our Web Sites. You may elect not to participate by clicking the appropriate on-screen button.
*snip*
In some situations, we will share your personal information, on a confidential basis, with third parties who perform a particular service on our behalf, such as sending e-mails. These parties are not allowed to use personal information except for the limited purpose of providing the particular service on our behalf. (This preclude 'selling' of information, as that is doing not something on behalf of DirectSong. Unless DS wanted to send their own ads to you.) In addition, Direct Song receives personal usage and demographic information from third parties and uses this information to improve our products and services.
This policy is actualy sealed tighter than most PPs out there.
~Firax
Caco-Cola
Yes but the 'appropriate on screen button' may be the 'I Disagree' button in which you couldn't load the expansion.
Aloren
Is there something I missed here about the expansion? Anyone care to fill me in? It is true that they can't legally give away your private info w/o you first entering into a contractual agreement on it (wahtever it is), but they may require the contract as a sort of ultimatum.
Kinda like those nasty lil ToSes...lol
Kinda like those nasty lil ToSes...lol
Caco-Cola
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Is there something I missed here about the expansion? Anyone care to fill me in? It is true that they can't legally give away your private info w/o you first entering into a contractual agreement on it (wahtever it is), but they may require the contract as a sort of ultimatum. Kinda like those nasty lil ToSes...lol |
In this case, playing Guild Wars.
Gun Giddy
If you are really worried about junk mail and spam, then have one of your pets sign up for it. My cat loves to sign up for all that type of stuff for me. He has subscriptions to magazines, his own e-mail account, and apparently a well to do computer buisness. 
Firax
Yes but the 'appropriate on screen button' may be the 'I Disagree' button in which you couldn't load the expansion
No matter which button it is as long as they don't tell you that pressing it they are voilating their own ploicy right here: We will always request permission to share such information on our Web Sites. By making the button 'obscure' in its function, they are in effect not requesting permission as no request was made.
Like I said before. This policy is one of more secure ones I've seen, if you really want to see a policy shot with loop holes just visist an online retailer, or a downloadbale game site.
~Firax
No matter which button it is as long as they don't tell you that pressing it they are voilating their own ploicy right here: We will always request permission to share such information on our Web Sites. By making the button 'obscure' in its function, they are in effect not requesting permission as no request was made.
Like I said before. This policy is one of more secure ones I've seen, if you really want to see a policy shot with loop holes just visist an online retailer, or a downloadbale game site.
~Firax
Ambre Finian
Firax, you have in no way weakened my position on the policy statement. I am not going to pick through the text for you and show you the 'loopholes' in order to debate this. I see and comprehend the weaknesses in the policy and have decided to make sure others will indeed think to read the 'small print' before making their decision to register. If you cannot see it, fine. (In fact the quote you posted above is indeed part of a loophole)
This post was made as FYI and 'heads up', as stated in my original post, to those who can comprehend the policy and to possibly make a browser aware who might otherwise be unaware.
That's all!
Attempt to debate it all you like, as another reader may take you up on that, but I will not. If you feel comfortable with the policy, then by all means accept it fully. It is written in such a way that if you do not comprehend well, you will indeed miss the potential for hazards.
And that's it. The last I'm going to say about it.
And don't misread my feelings expressed above, this issue is not as dramatic as my text above might express otherwise. I'm just rationally saying that I don't feel responsible MAKING another person, yourself or anyone else, see something that they can't or don't want to see, yet is there nonetheless. Besides that, the issue is not exactly life-shattering nor all that important. It's only a inconvenience and irritating, but not on some grand scale. *shrug*
Again, this is FYI. I don't care to debate (but by all means, do so without me if it is helpful)
This post was made as FYI and 'heads up', as stated in my original post, to those who can comprehend the policy and to possibly make a browser aware who might otherwise be unaware.
That's all!
Attempt to debate it all you like, as another reader may take you up on that, but I will not. If you feel comfortable with the policy, then by all means accept it fully. It is written in such a way that if you do not comprehend well, you will indeed miss the potential for hazards.
And that's it. The last I'm going to say about it.
And don't misread my feelings expressed above, this issue is not as dramatic as my text above might express otherwise. I'm just rationally saying that I don't feel responsible MAKING another person, yourself or anyone else, see something that they can't or don't want to see, yet is there nonetheless. Besides that, the issue is not exactly life-shattering nor all that important. It's only a inconvenience and irritating, but not on some grand scale. *shrug*
Again, this is FYI. I don't care to debate (but by all means, do so without me if it is helpful)
LoneDust
DirectSong?
Can someone indulge my clueless self and others like me on what this thread is all about?
Can someone indulge my clueless self and others like me on what this thread is all about?
Deagol
The italic part of the text below is what is problematic.
This part say that they may spam you.
Also, they can share their data with anyone for any purpose, as long as they call them an "affiliate" first (so they are no longer is a "third party").
I'd advice you to let your cat sign up for the service, if you want it.
Quote:
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Use of Information Collected by Direct Song. Direct Song uses the personal information we collect to improve the content of the Direct Song Site and Services; to customize the content and/or layout of our sites for each individual user; to notify users about updates to the Direct Song Site and Services or promotional offers or opportunities that we believe will be of interest to users ; and to investigate violations of our Terms of Service. |
Quote:
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Sharing Data with Direct Song Affiliates. Direct Song may share the personal and aggregate information we collect with our affiliates and other Web Sites operated by or for Direct Song. |
I'd advice you to let your cat sign up for the service, if you want it.
Aloren
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Originally Posted by Caco-Cola
The TOS is your contractual agreement and you're bound to it as long as you use the service provided.
In this case, playing Guild Wars. |
Inquiring minds want to know after all, lol.
Gaile Gray
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Aloren
I'm well aware that the ToS is the contractual agreement for playing guild wars I was asking what exactly this whole thing was about.
Inquiring minds want to know after all, lol. |
Here's some info: http://www.guildwars.com/community/f...-friday45.html. Hope that helps.
Ambre Finian
Gaile, I received your email and I appreciate you taking the time to follow up with Direct Song & Co with these concerns. Please do reply here when you have a response. Since you'll try to post the response here publicly, I'll go ahead and paste in my message just to keep the info complete. It's a bit embarrassing to post this here, but if you're going to respond here, it makes sense. Gaile, this message was sent to you after you told me you emailed Direct Song. I'm not sure, but you might want to use this message as reference because I don't believe we shared the same point of view at the time and I've tried to explain it more clearly.
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Dear Gaile Gray, Thank you very much for your response. Please do reply to this request for information publicly in the thread you mentioned. I did post that thread. It's my opinion that the policy statement from Direct Song is not very clear. It is true that they do mention that they will provide a button to select in order to not share information. That is however very unclear because the policy is separated into distinct, 'complete thought' sections. (edit: And the opt out button only pertains to use of information by 'Third Parties') To begin with, under the section "Use of Information Collected by Direct Song", it states, without any mention of opting out, that "Direct Song uses the personal information we collect *snip* to notify users about updates to the Direct Song Site and Services or promotional offers or opportunities that we believe will be of interest to users..." (edit: This is not a third party, but Direct Song itself) That is a complete section of the policy, meaning it is a paragraph by itself. This contradicts the later statement about a button to use to opt out. You cannot assume the opt out button pertains to this section as the opt out button is only mentioned regarding third parties (their definition of third parties). The next hazardous section with no mention of opting out is titled "Sharing Data with Direct Song Affiliates". It reads "Direct Song may share the personal and aggregate information we collect with our affiliates and other Web Sites operated by or for Direct Song." Again, you cannot assume the opt out function mentioned under the separate third party section relates to this separate statement. (edit: re:Affiliates does not necessarily mean 'Third Parties') The very next section is where you get to third parties, which are not the same as Direct Song Affiliates nor Direct Song itself. This section is when the opt out button is finally mentioned. But the opt out button is not included nor should it be assumed to be in effect with the previous two sections I mentioned above. No other mention of opting out in this fashion is discussed for the remainder of the policy. The next section in question is "Membership Services and Service Providers". The very first sentence of that section states very clearly and without any stipulation, "When you register for an Account or to the Service, Direct Song may share your registration information with content or service providers." Their only 'opt out' option given in this section is for you to choose NOT to register. It then goes on to say you will be denied use of certain services IF you choose not to register. Those services are not discussed in detail, it only mentions you will not be able to use the discussion forums, as one example. I hope now you can see more clearly my question of just how Direct Song will be benefiting from our personal information. P.S. Why can't companies these days just sell you a product fairly, without any agenda to follow up with indundating you with more advertising? Give me the gold old days! Please don't get me wrong. I know it is a dog eat dog world. Advertising is really invasive this day and age. I can picture us 20 years from now where advertising continues to evolve to work not unlike the movie with tom cruise called minority report, where advertising was thrown at you from every direction. Thanks so much for the support. It is very much appreciated. Truly, to get a response speaks highly if you and your company. |
Firax
Ambre Finian:
Frankly, I'm insulted you think I am so close-minded. My motto is practically "Prove me wrong". But I don't just roll over. Luckily, someone else (Deagol) actually tried before you did.
Daegol:
I am pretty sure there is a legal definition of 'affiliate', which a set of 'traits' needed to call someone an 'affiliate', which I admit ignorance to. I'm going to try to look this up, as it means everything to the argument.
Daegol:
Yep. But I'm not concerned about spam because I give companies a different e-mail than I do friends. My e-mail account has never received spam in the four years I've had it.
And I want to see Gaile's side. After all, it's only fair to show the other side what you're trying to rebuke; it doesn't show well to your argument if people can't see the other side.
~Firax
Quote:
| I'm just rationally saying that I don't feel responsible MAKING another person, yourself or anyone else, see something that they can't or don't want to see, yet is there nonetheless. |
Daegol:
Quote:
| Also, they can share their data with anyone for any purpose, as long as they call them an "affiliate" first (so they are no longer is a "third party"). |
Daegol:
Quote:
| This part say that they may spam you. |
And I want to see Gaile's side. After all, it's only fair to show the other side what you're trying to rebuke; it doesn't show well to your argument if people can't see the other side.
~Firax
Caco-Cola
Quote:
| I am pretty sure there is a legal definition of 'affiliate', which a set of 'traits' needed to call someone an 'affiliate', which I admit ignorance to. I'm going to try to look this up, as it means everything to the argument. |
Case in point is that some sites you can sign up for an affliate program and their TOS for that program says nothing about you not being able to spam emails and what not.
It just says that whatever sales come off your account you'll get XX% of, that attempting to cheat the system is bad, and some other crap.
Deagol
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Originally Posted by Firax
And I want to see Gaile's side.
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ArenaNet probably get some percentage of the Direct Song sales, but that is a seperate issue, controlled by a different agreement between AN and DS.
PS: I have also seen so many "affiliate programs" that I have little faith in whatever legal meaning the word may have offers any protection.
evrqst123
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Originally Posted by Gun Giddy
If you are really worried about junk mail and spam, then have one of your pets sign up for it. My cat loves to sign up for all that type of stuff for me. He has subscriptions to magazines, his own e-mail account, and apparently a well to do computer buisness.
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Ambre Finian
Gaile has informed me that Jeremy Soule has gotten back to her regarding this and has expressed that they now intend to reword the policy for clarity and to better express their intent. I'll let Gaile give you more information officially, but I'm happy to report that Mr Soule has indeed acknowledged this and appears very responsive and moved (pleased) with having received (our) concerns.
We appreciate your help, Gaile (and Jeremy)! You've proven that you and your company are awesome and listen..!
We appreciate your help, Gaile (and Jeremy)! You've proven that you and your company are awesome and listen..!
Aloren
Thanks for the help, Gaile. It's always good to hear that the voice of the crowd is being heard, unlike certain games I won't mention...
C-Tzar
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Originally Posted by Gun Giddy
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