Rant about Underworld/Fissure

I've been involved in multiple parties for the underworld and fissure and the main problem with these is that if any one member of your party wants to destroy the mission (as in, get everyone killed) they can do so at their whim and there's nothing that anyone can do about it. Combined with the fact that it's so aggrevatingly hard to actually get a party into the mission, and it cost money to get in, this is a huge problem.

It doesn't even have to be intentional. If any one member decides that they're "the man" and can just fly towards the closest enemy, chances are, the party will die. And even if the situation is salvagable and only a couple of people die there's a good chance that one of those dead members is going to exit right away anyways.

Anyways, I like the inherent challenge of the UW/Fissure but the entire experience is destroyed by the following issues:

1. Only the leader pays for the entrance fee, making all the members have to manually trade their 125 gold to start - thus making simply starting the mission a pain. Why not automate this and have each member automatically dinged for 125. That would be alot better than entrusting your money to a random person and would save a bunch of time. And to stop this from being a "griefer" tool, add a confirmation window when you enter the mission so that you aren't drawn into the mission before you're sure (like if you joined a party of 2 and the leader decided to enter the mission right there).

2. Everyone wants a monk for this mission. Being that monks are hard to come by this issue is a big problem as you can't even take Henchmen Monks with you to speed things up. A "crazy" idea that could help alleviate this is to have a place that you could "sign up" for missions and party leaders could select people from this list (which would include all districts) so people won't have to constantly jump from dist to dist looking for that elusive monk. Actually, this should be implemented for ALL missions/towns to make forming parties easier.

3. One person can break the mission by intentionally pulling too many things. There's no real solution for that though.

4. Failure can almost be guaranteed by talking to the NPC's before clearing an area. I mean, what kind of game mechanic is that. Why place an element at the start of the mission that you pretty much ALWAYS have to warn people not to touch. And why place an element that you have to run back and forth to. UW/Fissure always breaks down to: Don't talk to NPC, Clear the area, walk back to NPC to get quest, go finish quest, don't talk to NPC for next quest, clear the area, walk back.....

5. People quitting these missions is rampant. It's virtually impossible to go 2 minutes without at least one member quitting. And once one does then other people think "oh, we can't do this with only 7 people" and someone else leaves right away as well. There needs to be some kind of "lock" mechanism to prevent people leaving these specific missions. Like a time penalty to rejoin the server or even a 3 minute "exit" timer that can be cancelled if you decide to stay. Or at least replace the human with an equivalent henchman.

6. Henchmen. Why can't I enter with just henchmen. I'm SO tired of waiting for teams to form to take on these mission. I want to be able to go here and play. Not sit in town for literally 30 minutes to finally enter the mission just to have someone quit or be stupid and then have to form a party all over again. I know there's issues with Henchman behavior but I think that if you were determined enough (and I definately am) you could work with them.

1) agree, the 125 gold from everyone should be automatic.
2) monks are in demand everywhere. Pretty much every underworld/fissure group needs two, and there are far too many groups formed. I tend to only join groups that already have at least one monk. E/Mo's should be more willing to go healer (as i have done to great effect on occasion).
3) only do the mission with guild mates, or as soon as someone shows signs of idiocy, drop them (either before or after the mission).
4) In the underworld that's due to the aggro ranges, if you've got to the temple of the ages you should understand what they mean. The fissure mission is easy even if you talk to the NPC, you just have to learn what order to do stuff in. The later quests in fissure arent a problem talking to NPC's first.
5) People quit everything, missions, tombs. Most of the quits I have seen in the ToA missions is from people that were tired of being called noob etc. or were being criticised for doing their job.
6) IIRC they aren't lvl 20, so would die very quickly. Get a decent guild or a friends list.

The thing to remember is that fissure and the underworld are high end PvE. Most of the things you talk about also affect high end PvP in the tombs. The secret for both is to find players you enjoy playing with, add them to your friends list and see if you can join one of their guilds.

Though the makers of Guild Wars do not require you to be a member of a Guild, it certainly is encouraged. At some point you will need to have competent team members. A list of friends or Guild members is critical.

I would be surprised if they nerf the missions after Accention to allow more people to complete them. Once you reach level 20 you are pretty much expected to either start a new character or get better at playing the one you have.

the problem with everyone paying 125 automatically is that most people won't wanna do it, hence there would be almost no going to the Underworld with random parties

i certainly am not gonna pay 125 so a bunch of idiots - which let's be frank here, over 90% of all PUG are - can get me killed within 30 seconds of going to the Underworld

the only way i'd pay was if i was going in with a competent party. the only way that would happen would be if i already knew all the players in the party beforehand. in which case paying the leader would not be a hassle at all since all the smart players in the party would know to do so, and do so, without being asked.

Although i feel that 125 gold is not an issue, i mean if your able to go to underworld or fissure of woe, being level 20 + close to completing all the missions is almost a neccessity for success.
who cant scrape together 125 gold within a couple of mins? your paying for the privlidge to be able to enter an enviroment which holds ALOT of rare and expensive drops, benifits by far outway the costs. But its not about money, its about time, lets face it, not everyone can afford to guarantee that they will be able to play guild wars for the next 2-3 hours in succession, so it does seem kinda risky to go into a random party where anyone can potentially ruin the mission, further wasting ur time. But u gota understand that , that element of the game will always be there no matter what.
Another thing is people going AFK (Away from keyboard for anyone who doesnt kno what it means) and not telling everyone else in the team, fair enough if your needed elsewhere for a moment like sum1 is at the door and ur the only person home or if the phone rings and its for you, this cant be helped, but atleast have the decency to just say so, atleast that way people will know n dont start getting angry at you.

Im from UK and thus making it even worse that Europe doesnt always hold down the Hall of Heros and when it does then it leaves u with a choice, so do you go to temple of ages to have a try at the underworld or fissure at the expense of the next 2 hours, or do you let the opportunity pass and then end up having to wait another couple of days or up to a week?

.. you're complaining about how you or someone who was leading the party invited a bad party member?

I mean, for the most part.

I've never once had an issue with the FoW.

Fun time, actually.

Just how many quests are in Fissure of Woe? I spent about 3 hours there last night, and we cleared the Tower of Courage, killed the 5 Banshees, and escorted the griffons back to the tower. We then really weren't sure what to do, and were down 1 man.

We killed off the wandering skeletons, and cleared another tower with an Anvil in its center but we had no idea what the point of it was. So we continued on and found a pair of L30 Bone Dragons and killed them, which didn't drop anything of value, either. Onward we go, into the Ghost Walker/Hydra/Bog Skale area, and find another NPC. However, he is mute. At this point, we're 2.5 hours in, and down 2 men, and it's nearly 2 AM EST. We don't make it much past this point, as we die to a bad pull of some Abyssal things that wouldn't drop off no matter how far we ran.

Does anyone know what the anvil in the one tower is for? Or how to make use of the NPC surrounded by Hydras, Ghost Walkers, and Bog Skales? And just how much further the path goes?

As for your complaints, the big one I agree with is the money issue. It is pretty stupid to only charge the leader. It's annoying to have to trade with 7 other people... and even worse when you have to beg/ask for their 125g share, cuz it's such a pittance, but for me to drop 1K every trip I lead is a bit much.

After you escort the griffs back, head to the tent area just north of the path that leads west to where the wailing lord was. There's a group of 4 undead there, (and a pair of rangers that pop out of the ground), that, when killed, spawn the next set of 3 NPCs. They offer two quests, one that takes place in the area where you killed the dragon liches (best to clear that before accepting the quest) and one that takes place at the anvil (get it, and then go clear that area). The first gives a morale boost (there's a boss) which you may want to save or take advantage of. The second leads to more quests after you complete it, eventually opening up the fissure crafter.

How ****ing important are you?


Well then do you expect the leader to submit the entire amount?

WTF? own up to the responsibility. I have lost the entire amount a few times now, by idiots not listening.

I will pay my share of the entrance without thinking. Over and over, but i do not want to pay full price over and over.

Get it?

In fact, I think I will only play with groups now that require each member to pay their part.

Who is to say, that you, who did not pay any morey to get in, will not be the one farting it up for everybody that did pay.

You are not a team player, I can tell from one post.

i agree, 125gold is not the crown jewels

I actually think that the entrance fee should be higher (added with automatically charging each member). If the fee were higher there'd be less people willing to just leave after the first sign of trouble. Making it 400 to 500 per person would "help" get rid of some of the imbeciles and possibly get rid of alot of griefers.

1. I like the idea of a confirmation before entering UW/Fissure, because last night, we started while two people were changing skills (we didn't know?). I don't like the idea though of an automatic deduction. Not all parties split the payment 8 ways. Last night, we tried Fissure twice -- first round, one person offered to pay the 1K, and the second round, I and someone else split it, 500g each.

2. I think, generally, not just for UW/Fissure, but for every town & mission city, there should be some sort of "LFG or Unavailable" option. I'll copy/paste my idea from this thread:

3. I agree, no real solution - that's just something you'd have to work out with your teammates.

4. Well, isn't the whole "talk to NPC after clearing the area" just a strategy? Who knows, there may be a group of people who actually want the challenge of talking to the NPC first.

5. Eh. I don't have any suggestions regarding this. I think this is a problem we have generally with every mission - afk'ers, people who drop with or without valid reasons, etc. I don't feel the game should LOCK people in it though. There is still a thing called life, and events may rise where people have to leave the game suddenly. Anyway, if it's any consolation to those that have party leavers -- last night, we did Fissure after one tank & one healer left, and we still managed to survive.

6. Henchmen aren't reliable for everything. Best thing would be to make friends in the game or join a guild you can get along with, and play with them.

I quit a group once after we all died and warped to town.

It was down to the ONLY player who understood the UW (me) because everybody else died.

Here were the conversations:
"Me: Sorry, I didn't bring res. signet. We lost"
Person 1: OMG ur a faggort!
Person 2: Sh*t
[I finally die]
Person 1: Faggot
[Back in town]
[I leave]"

and here was one where I almost left/decided to let the Aatxe eat them:
"Person 1: OMG USE RAIN OF FIRE!
Me: I don't have it
Person 2: Honestly, it doesn't look like you are doing anything.
Me: I've been saving your asses and killing off the monsters
Person 2: All I see are specks/stars
Me: I've been using ward against melee and enfeeble to make them do less damage...
"

Some groups are horrible

Solution: No PUG players.
Use friends, guildmates, or NPCs ONLY.

Problem solved.

No friends or guildmates?
Time to work on your social SKILLS.

Regards,

Talesin

Increase the cost to 1k per group member, and up the good item drop rates, I think the whole time I spent in underworld I saw one gold drop and I didnt get it, albeit that wasnt that overly long, still I farm at 100X this drop rate.

Tsunamii Starshine

i think they should just make it so henchmen can go in so you don't have to deal with all the morons in this game. 90% of the time underworld/fissure trips are complete waste because the ppl that play this game are f---- morons. i really wonder how some of them make it to lvl 20 and to the temple of ages.

An easy destroyer of any team is when someone starts names. Which is often.

Why can't people understand that some people are new... and some people are just dumb. It's like management in real life... you can't just fire every employee... learn o coax them -- and they will most often respond well.

Don't berate me with how stupid some party members are... I know. Time and again it's me rapidly typing "be calm" ... "concentrate" ... "ward up" when a dolt enters UW for the first time and triggers the ghost -immediately-.

When its done... after they vent some frustration... say "lol -always- happens.... hehe.." ... "anyways we fine... DP will be cut "

When a party member does something stupid... and its pretty likely he knows he fked up -- publicly, too... dont mention it, say something like "okay Lord, this next part is tricky... we need to <<plan/strategy>>" dont SHOUT... Never ever say NOOB we all hate that! You destroy the team when you mention the word at all -- which is stupid. Don't swear, say stfu, people are sensitive to it and it demoralizes,

Of course, I'm well-versed in UW and FoW so I naturally lead well because I don't mess up myself... and so when i extend some defence to the dolt, people listen.

I feel that it's all about -egos-. Hurt their ego and then they dont enjoy the game/dont wanna play.

Personally when I sense a conflict bubbling (yea we can all smell it a mile away... someone starts a name and the whole team waits for the reply) I always try to diffuse it with some kind of laughter

"lol" ... "I love miscommunications! haha"

Then redirect their attention to the task at hand.

It ruins the party. Eg healing monk only partially heals that member because they secretly want them to die. Eg tanks dont change targets when a new target is called midway (distracted by hurtful comments)

I'm happy that almost all my runs work well now... of course... like any successful business, I choose my buddies well

Always take down the name of the monks in the party if they are competent and start a group with the monk carefully.

For those who haven't the experience/friends/network yet... well... it's a learning curve that you'll have to experience and will get better over time as you learn more about the game and become better at choosing members for a role to fulfill in a party.


This game rocks!
Fe Winds / Dreg Spawn

1. 125 gold per person is nothing. Anybody complaining about having to pay that isnt ready for UW/FoW anyways. I mean come on. You can get 125 gold in like 2 minutes.

I think a pop-up wondow should come up after the group leader kneels infront of the statue saying this,

---------------------------------------------------------
|
| Total Donation Amount Required to Start Mission <1000g>
|
| Current Total Group Donation < 0g>
|
| Enter Your Donation: < 0g> [Enter]
|
---------------------------------------------------------

And until the total donation required is met the group leaders Enter Mission button is greyed out. Now lets say you donate and somebody leaves the group before the mission. All money is refunded to everybody and the box comes up again. This is also good incase somebody trys to pull the everybody give me 125g then after they do they leave the group thing.

Also on the topic of pop-up boxes. Lets add another for this... Once the group leader presses the enter mission buttin a box should come up for everybody saying.. the group leader has requested to enter the mission, are you ready to begin? and have a yes button. And have a little icon that appears next to the names of the people that have agreed so they know who they are waiting on. That way people can be set with the skills they need.

2. Thats one idea on it. How about this instead. Have a set of level 20 henchmen that say something like [Quest Healer], [Quest Protector], [Quest Fighter] and so on that can only be used for those missions (UW/Fissure). After ascention the healer and protector actually work pretty well. If you have a real monk in your group then grabbing a hench healer is alot better then nothing. making it possible with 1 real monk instead of always having to get 2 or even 3.

3. Pulling is part of the fun.

4. It is a bit much that you have to clear before you start the quest. It makes it so before you enter the mission you have to explain it to the new people so they dont just jump in and click the hero before you finish loading in. Maybe make it so the foes ignore the hero all together. That would make it easier though. How about making it so you cant start the quest until the area is clear. Nomatter if you click on him or not.

5. To solve the people quiting the mission thing. A time limit still isnt going to help much in my opinion. How about this.. whichever class that leaves is replaced with a level 20 henchmen of the same type of primary class.. if a W/E leaves then a Fighter hench enters the game. Atleast you would have a better chance at salvaging the group. Or if a mo/w leaves then a healer will come in. If a healer hench is already in the group then have a protector come in. Or even menlo(sp). Just an idea.

6. see #2. If you take all hench with you then you could pay the full amount for yourself. If you have 7 players and 1 hench make it so the 7 players have to cover the cost. (With the pop-up box idea)

Henchmen at Temple of Ages should have their levels raised to 20. Right now they're just lvl 15, so you can't expect them to fill in shoes of those who left. So PLEASE dev team, raise henchmen to lvl 20 so we can use some of them to fill our groups.

my first time in the fissure, we all died around the general area of the bridge with the wraith lord--except for one person.

this one person had a res signet.

because of this one person, we were able to clear the bridge and complete the quests.

i hate people who don't bring res signets.

Bingo, we have a winner!

And the few times I joined PUG groups in Temple for kicks, I never paid a share. I told them I didn't have to pay because I was a monk, and nobody disagreed. Ha, ha.

I have good social skills, and don't like wearing a cape. The friends I have met are rarely online at the same time, or busy doing other things when they are. Sometimes I meet up with one or two for a bit, but it's rare. I'll use henchmen for minor quests to avoid the hassle, but missions are meant to be done with others imho... so the PUG is my only option.

Your comment is a generalization, and not a very helpful one at that.

Ah... so these are those great "social SKILLS" that are being referred to.

It would be ezier to just go w/ henches. but since their lvl 15s, they were made for going through the outside surrounding areas.

if GW did change their lvl it would unbalance the surrounding areas.


So.
I would like to (suggest)see a different starting area of UW/FOW (after loading there, not the pay entrance @ TOA), where you could pick up henchies(lvl20s?) before you atk or pick up the quest. that would be very helpful.

but again it might unbalance UW/FOW. hehe

Well, there are other places where you can get to UW and FOW, that are outside, you just need to find one outside a town with level 20 henchies.

Wow, you guys need some form of help. Really.

so your saying its still possible to take henchies... just not the temple ones...
by using an outside fow/uw statue entrance...ive only seen the bonus statues...hmmm.

I am pretty sure any statue of the two gods (can't think of names) will take you there for 1 plat.