Mesmers, a lot better than I thought!
Darkest Dawn
Well, I was intrigued by the mesmer class, but had not actually played it. So I started a new build(my 4th) with a Mesmer primary. I must say, my character can really hold their own! I see this class as really deadly to casters, but with the cadre of life and mana draining skills, my character can really dish it out all around. Right now I'm lvl 9, and with a the healer and warrior henchmen, I can readily handle pretty much anything in the post sear Ascelon area. Granted my char is no tank, nor should it be, but I really am impressed and enjoying this class!
Zilm
Me too. Probably the least appreciated class. In the right hands they are awesome.
asdar
Later levels in PvE they're awesome still. Nobody wants one around because they're not flashy though.
People don't know what a Mesmer does. They don't understand the monsters are doing much less damage and dying much faster with a mesmer in the group. You can see an Ele's fire and a necro usually has skills that show up to other players but the mesmer's have no flash or health giving ability.
I've gotten compliments when I'm playing my monk for healing when in truth it should have gone to the Mesmer who was doing an awesome job of weakening the monsters so they didn't hit as often.
I tell the group every time they should be thanking the mesmer.
People don't know what a Mesmer does. They don't understand the monsters are doing much less damage and dying much faster with a mesmer in the group. You can see an Ele's fire and a necro usually has skills that show up to other players but the mesmer's have no flash or health giving ability.
I've gotten compliments when I'm playing my monk for healing when in truth it should have gone to the Mesmer who was doing an awesome job of weakening the monsters so they didn't hit as often.
I tell the group every time they should be thanking the mesmer.
CtrlAltDel
later in the game you really want more Me than Mo's in your group
Great Gjl
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Originally Posted by CtrlAltDel
later in the game you really want more Me than Mo's in your group
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Originally Posted by Zilm
Probably the least appreciated class. In the right hands they are awesome.
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I have to say, though, that in PvE I haven't found a single situation that demanded a Mesmer as a necessity (and most 'Mesmers' out there just spam crap like Conjure Phantasm), since you can just yawn while you steamroll everything mindlessly with Wars/Els. Don't blame the profession, blame the lack of challenge.
Just like how Necros seem best adapted to PvE, Mesmers are better suited for PvP.
CtrlAltDel
heck as early as the desert i've found having a Me primary in your group to be a huge help, usually better than having a second Mo primary in the group
deathwearer
Me are pretty awsome when the player know how to play it.
Epinephrine
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Originally Posted by Great Gjl
... most 'Mesmers' out there just spam crap like Conjure Phantasm...
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Conjure Phantasm has little/no place in a mesmer's skill lineup later in the game; you have much better things to do with 10 energy. I've gotten few complaints though when shutting down spells, you just have to remember that a Power Leak against an opposing caster's Meteor/Earthquake etc. not only "heals" the damage the spell would have done, but also the damage the other spells that would have been fueled on that energy would have done. Interrupts and energy denial really take the damage coming in down. A cry of frustration as a group of ranged opponents are readying "Apply Poison" or the like can stop all of their skills if you get lucky, making the job much easier. PvP is definitely even better for it. A cry of frustration as a group of ranged opponents are readying "Apply Poison" or the like can stop all of their skills if you get lucky, making the job much easier.
C-Tzar
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Originally Posted by Great Gjl
I have to say, though, that in PvE I haven't found a single situation that demanded a Mesmer as a necessity
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Originally Posted by Great Gjl
...and most 'Mesmers' out there just spam crap like Conjure Phantasm
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Originally Posted by Great Gjl
Just like how Necros seem best adapted to PvE, Mesmers are better suited for PvP.
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*New hells added daily for your convenience.
asdar
Take any mission or area that's said to NEED two monks and go with a monk and a Mesmer and you'll see the value. Mesmer's are like a Protection monk that does damage. I'm not saying they'll replace a monk altogether. 
It's the damage reduction with a mesmer that's very apparent to a monk. I don't know their offensive skills but it's much easier to heal with a mesmer in the group.
The good thing about them is that unlike a healing monk they can damage the monsters badly and make going through the easy monsters faster while helping reducing the damage on the harder hitting ones.
Pinesol for instance with a Mesmer does 1/4 the damage and gives probably 10 power back to the mesmer. It pays for itself in power so the reduction is basically free. The mesmer can then turn that power into damage on the other mobs to kill them faster.
It's the damage reduction with a mesmer that's very apparent to a monk. I don't know their offensive skills but it's much easier to heal with a mesmer in the group.
The good thing about them is that unlike a healing monk they can damage the monsters badly and make going through the easy monsters faster while helping reducing the damage on the harder hitting ones.
Pinesol for instance with a Mesmer does 1/4 the damage and gives probably 10 power back to the mesmer. It pays for itself in power so the reduction is basically free. The mesmer can then turn that power into damage on the other mobs to kill them faster.
Darkest Dawn
I agree. It's how you play mesmers that make them shine or stink. Mesmers are a thinking person's class. you can't just mindlessly tank, or cast spells. The mesmer is all about shutting down the special abilities of the other classes. This requires thought, and perception.
Epinephrine
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Originally Posted by Darkest Dawn
I agree. It's how you play mesmers that make them shine or stink. Mesmers are a thinking person's class. you can't just mindlessly tank, or cast spells. The mesmer is all about shutting down the special abilities of the other classes. This requires thought, and perception.
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Great Gjl
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Originally Posted by C-Tzar
You CAN get by without them, but why in all of the 39 hells* would you want to?
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. Plus the fact that most mesmers seem to play the role of 'damage dealer' (or not) means finding a real mesmer is a lot more trouble than it's worth.Quote:
| Here's the real problem. It's not the class, is the ones playing the class (or rather fumbling the class) giving it a bad name. |
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Just FYI, my 3rd PvE character is a mesmer.
Darkest Dawn
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Originally Posted by Epinephrine
At the same time, it can be hit or miss - I've had times when I seem to miss every interrupt I go for, making me next to useless, and days when I hit 1 second casting times every shot, at which point the enemy collapses like a tower of blocks in a daycare.
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I suspect, and hear clearly that this will indeed change. Also, I've not done much PvP, so I'd still be a total n00b using this build in the arena!
Padre
Domination is, quite possibly, one of the best, and least used, skill lines in the game. I had to switch my pvp mesmer to an ele/mes so that she wouldn't get targeted immidiately, because people figured out mesmers need to go first in the arenas 
C-Tzar
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Originally Posted by Great Gjl
My point was that you could probably get through a mission QUICKER since the enemies in PvE are so easy to defeat (and use the famous 'attack until I die' strategy). I was arguing more against the view that 'later in the game you really want more Me than Mo's in your group' than talking about them in general
. Plus the fact that most mesmers seem to play the role of 'damage dealer' (or not) means finding a real mesmer is a lot more trouble than it's worth. |
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Originally Posted by Great Gjl
Thanks for proving my point.
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Originally Posted by Great Gjl
Effective, but not AS effective. Nothing is AS effective in PvP or PvE, much less the Mesmer.
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Yeah, I overstate the mesmer in general a tad, but I have to to offset all of the "mesmers is teh sux0rz" nonsense that is so prevalent in this game.
Than
I love my Mesmer(and my very first Character). Seeing the PvE healers crumble after three spells(maximum) never gets old.
And I only found Phantasim useful for one thing, as a throw away hex for Shatter Hex. But that got taken out real quick as I gained better spells.
And I only found Phantasim useful for one thing, as a throw away hex for Shatter Hex. But that got taken out real quick as I gained better spells.
Weezer_Blue
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Originally Posted by Zilm
Me too. Probably the least appreciated class. In the right hands they are awesome.
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As far as PvP goes, Mesmers are widely respected for their ability to lay casters to ruin in a matter of seconds.
By the way, I'm pretty sure all NPC's (henchmen included) have infinite energy. So mana draining skills don't do anything to them.
lightblade
I played my second character as mesmer primary, because I just like the concept of COUNTERing other's people's action
Mesmer's domination tree is not only good with doing indirect damage to spell casters, they can also do direct damage to non-casters.
Westry's Worry, can do that, doing 50 dmg with only 5 energy. How you use this in PvE, is click on the monster, cast it, then use the button that "target next" then use it again, you'll have bunch of monsters dropping hp quickly, just keep switching targets
This is the main reason why mesmer is hard to play, you'll need to constantly changing targets, the same goes to smiting monks
Mesmer's domination tree is not only good with doing indirect damage to spell casters, they can also do direct damage to non-casters.
Westry's Worry, can do that, doing 50 dmg with only 5 energy. How you use this in PvE, is click on the monster, cast it, then use the button that "target next" then use it again, you'll have bunch of monsters dropping hp quickly, just keep switching targets
This is the main reason why mesmer is hard to play, you'll need to constantly changing targets, the same goes to smiting monks
BrandonIT
My primary character is a Mesmer/Monk (Domination/Healing Prayers/Fast Cast). It's a joy to play but is a totally different playstyle based on PvE or PvP combat. I'm still working on the best build for each.
But as someone said, the Mesmer is a thinking person's class, even more so because of the interrupt requirement of being aware of what's going on in the battle and quick-fingered enough to stop it.
And the above poster is right, my experience with higher-level content (Level 10+ enemies) is a Mesmer is much better suited to hitting a large range of targets, than just sticking with one.
But as someone said, the Mesmer is a thinking person's class, even more so because of the interrupt requirement of being aware of what's going on in the battle and quick-fingered enough to stop it.
And the above poster is right, my experience with higher-level content (Level 10+ enemies) is a Mesmer is much better suited to hitting a large range of targets, than just sticking with one.
Deathlord
People tend to like spamming conjure phantasm because in their opinion its the only way to damage. You get it as a pre-searing skill and people don't really try other things if they find a simple solution. Conjure phantasm however isn't a long-term solution and if mesmers want to be effective they'll definetly need to try new things. Backfire which is also gettable in pre-searing is super helpful in many occasions, along with their wide array of hexes, they're a great addition to almost every party. I would usually choose a mesmer in my team if availible over any other class (Even monk if our team already has one). I wouldn't say mesmers replace monks but sometimes the only reason people have monks are because theres hardly ever a period of time where your in a party so intellegent and stable that they are capable of healing/keeping each other alive using second hand healing, which is why monks are neccesary 90% of the time. Mesmers are never required but can help vastly during fire-fights and such.
tomcruisejr
well, i play mesmer, mes/ne to be exact. i think mesmer class is the most versatile and deadliest in game. a mesmer can tank and beat warriors, interrupt the monks and elementalists, etc etc.
but rangers and necros can give hard time to mesmers
but rangers and necros can give hard time to mesmers
Xellos
Just for kicks, Mesmers can kill Ghostly Hero pretty fast when specced in Domination. It's pretty funny.
Bingley Joe
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Originally Posted by Weezer_Blue
By the way, I'm pretty sure all NPC's (henchmen included) have infinite energy. So mana draining skills don't do anything to them.
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Hmmm... I'm pretty sure they don't [have infinite energy]. In fact, to me, they appear to be pretty much on par with PCs of the same level with regard to energy/hp stores... just my observation at this point though -- I haven't used any science in forming this opinion.
Care to elaborate on why you think it's infinite?
C-Tzar
I've never bothered to try and prove it definatively, but they don't seem to have infinate evergy. One tipoff is that Alisia will usually start rezzing/healing people as soon as a fight is over, but at times I've seen her stand over a dead body for a good 10 seconds before doing anything, as though she were waiting for her energy to regen. I suppose it COULD just be poor AI/scripting, but it would make sence theat they would have the same limitations that real characters have. They do also suffer DP like we do. I've also seen mobs throw Glyph of Lesser Energy (why bother if it's infinate?), which again COULD be just poor AI or maybe even devs messing with our heads, but I doubt it.
Syuveil
My main is a N/Me. blood/domination build. I love arcane echo + chaos storm 
Algren Cole
I'd rather travel with a mesmer than anything else. I'm currently working through my R/W but if I decide to play a second class it will be mesmer. You'll notice that when a mesmer is in your group everything dies quicker....and you take less damage. I'd even rather have a mesmer than a monk in my party.
Bingley Joe
I'm [a number very very close to 100]% certain that Mind Wrack works as it should on the NPCs. Its trigger is 0 energy, so I can only assume it is tripping because either myself or the mob I've targeted have whittled its energy stores down to nothing...
Guess I'll have to conduct some actual tests now that I've had time to sit here and ponder this question, 'cause I've been happily proceeding under the assumption that they're balanced fairly closely to an equivalent lvl PC...
As an aside to this, is there any consensus on how many individual skills the mobs possess? My observations using Arcane Thievery and Echo in combination lead me to say 3, but I've never really seen any conclusive info on this. Anyone know?
Guess I'll have to conduct some actual tests now that I've had time to sit here and ponder this question, 'cause I've been happily proceeding under the assumption that they're balanced fairly closely to an equivalent lvl PC...
As an aside to this, is there any consensus on how many individual skills the mobs possess? My observations using Arcane Thievery and Echo in combination lead me to say 3, but I've never really seen any conclusive info on this. Anyone know?
Rasp
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Originally Posted by Bingley Joe
Hmmm... I'm pretty sure they don't [have infinite energy]. In fact, to me, they appear to be pretty much on par with PCs of the same level with regard to energy/hp stores... just my observation at this point though -- I haven't used any science in forming this opinion.
Care to elaborate on why you think it's infinite? |
Exion
Mesmer is the strongest class in the game Imo~glad to see your enjoying them.
niix
Today I started a mesmer primary. I just finished off a Mo/Me and decided to try to go with the least appreciated class in the game as a primary. And must I say, they are amazing. I've been carefully reading many guides and studing what every skill I have does.
Put in the hands of a person who is knowledgable of the character, the mesmer is amazing.
I am thinking of going with an Illusionary Weaponry build. I have chosen Warrior as my secondary class for defensive reasons (tactics), due to that fact that casters naturally have a lower AR.
Has anyone had any expierence with a Me/W - Illusionary Weaponry build? I would like to know some feedback on how well this build actually works, I can only imagen.
-nick
Put in the hands of a person who is knowledgable of the character, the mesmer is amazing.
I am thinking of going with an Illusionary Weaponry build. I have chosen Warrior as my secondary class for defensive reasons (tactics), due to that fact that casters naturally have a lower AR.
Has anyone had any expierence with a Me/W - Illusionary Weaponry build? I would like to know some feedback on how well this build actually works, I can only imagen.
-nick
Caco-Cola
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| ... most 'Mesmers' out there just spam crap like Conjure Phantasm... |
For one it counter-acts Healing Breeze (or at least slows it down).
You COULD remove it with Shatter Enchantment, sure, but what if they have Aegis also? You remove Aegis (which would end in a few seconds anyways) and they're sitll regenning.
Plus it's also some nice extra damage.
Let's say you drained your monk down to 0 energy. So you cast Wastrels to get an extra 50ish damage in then conjure to keep dealing damage.
I'm not sure how much a -5 health degeneration is equal to in terms of DPS but I wouldn't call Conjure crap.
Gerbill
I'm running a Me/N myself and yes Mesmers played correctly can be really usefull especially later on.
at the start you might want to go for Illusionary cuz Conjure Phantasm.. just.. seems to amazing to drop. I don't know how many Mesmer skills you used with your Mo/Me and how many experience you've had with them, but personally I LOVE Domination skills, you might want to look into those.
at the start you might want to go for Illusionary cuz Conjure Phantasm.. just.. seems to amazing to drop. I don't know how many Mesmer skills you used with your Mo/Me and how many experience you've had with them, but personally I LOVE Domination skills, you might want to look into those.
elenna
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Originally Posted by Bingley Joe
As an aside to this, is there any consensus on how many individual skills the mobs possess? My observations using Arcane Thievery and Echo in combination lead me to say 3, but I've never really seen any conclusive info on this. Anyone know?
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And to contribute to the topic of this thread:
I love my Me/Mo. I can get in, rez quickly, then get out (really useful in poisonous swamps).
niix
Word.
SleepeR
Distortion + Channeling + Spirit of Failure, figure it out. :P
Red Locust
Get flurry. Flurry + IW is killer, since IW hits for the same damage no matter what happens. Try to get your illusion magic up as high as possible with superior runes, for the best damage. And always have at least 1 other enchantment on top of IW, else it just screams "get rid of me". At least with another enchantment covering IW, you can survive one enchantment removal. Oh, and try to stay away from necros, they can eat your IW for breakfast, and you're quite useless without it. Maybe use arcane echo in conjunction with IW to be able to recast it when it gets removed.
I'm quite sure distortion lets you "evade" attacks, while SoF only triggers when your enemy misses, so you have a better chance of triggering SoF without distortion activated. Signet of midnight + SoF, however, is a different story
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Originally Posted by SleepeR
Distortion + Channeling + Spirit of Failure, figure it out. :P
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Slade xTekno
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Originally Posted by SleepeR
Distortion + Channeling + Spirit of Failure, figure it out. :P
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Howling Wind
Best way I describe mesmers are - a pain in the ass mainly for casters and classes that mesmers hate the most are necros and rangers.
Personally I like the illusion line of magic especially with a ranger, Poision + Conjure = 9 arrows of degen for a while, arcane conundrum = easier distracting / concussion shot.
I'm not sure sure whether mesmers are the least appreciated primary, mesmers are an essential for PvP teams.
Personally I like the illusion line of magic especially with a ranger, Poision + Conjure = 9 arrows of degen for a while, arcane conundrum = easier distracting / concussion shot.
I'm not sure sure whether mesmers are the least appreciated primary, mesmers are an essential for PvP teams.
Mordread
If not underappreciated they are definetly the most under-utilized class without a doubt. Out of all the HoH and pvp runs I've done (hundreds) I've had a pure mesmer on team maybe 10% of the time. I wish more people would play them cause when you are taking on a really good healing or protect team a mes can make all the difference.