Necros, pls play your class right...

due to some necros out there, quite many non-necro players have the misconception that this class doesn't benefit their party.

first, the necro/caster and caster/necro combo:

if only some of those necros i've seen out there would stop concentrating on dealing elementalist damage, which they mostly can't when they are neither ele primary nor secondary, then it would give the general community a better view of how useful and devastating a necro can really be. you want to deal "ground zero" damage? play an elementalist instead of giving the necro class and its abilities a bad reputation.

second, the necro/warriors (this upsets me a lil, to be honest):

in high end pve (ring of fire and beyond) some of those guys frustrate me to no end. these guys think they can tank those lvl28 baddies and keep themselves alive at the same time with their lovely blood magic. you know what you are doing? burn energy. no, not your own, but the monks'. on my first attempt (failed) on the final mission 2 of those guys joined the group (noone else around at that time). i quickly respec'ed my nec/mo to healing prayers cause i was almost certain what's going to happen. so my nec stood back, healing their sorry azzez, but those guys wouldn't have dreamed of stepping back and letting our 2 w/mo do the tanking, no matter how often our group begged them to. to make things worse those 2 guys yelled at us for letting them die .....
yes, you necro/warriors may do some good melee dmg in pvp, but in high end pve your weak tanking abilities have no place and are only hurting the group. you can't take the frontload dmg of those baddies and the healers are not the least interested in merely keeping you away from your almost certain 60% dp.

pls to all the necro/warriors which this lil disappointment applies to, don't take it as an insult or rant. in high end pve your class combination is not meant to take the beating which you stubbornly refuse to accept. things like vampiric touch will get you nowhere against those lvl28 behemoths. granted, there were a few n/w's i've met that didn't do so bad in those last missions, ie did something else than spaming "vampiric touch". but they were few and far between.

to those that this topic doesn't apply to, take it as either a useless waste of forum space or as a piece of entertainment.
yes, i feel better now (or something), ty .

As playing a healer for my primary character I can agree to this. But it really goes for any ??/Wa player. I spend all my energy trying to keep this person alive. And for any class, do not tank unlesss you have the best armor available to you.

the game description says that any class combination is viable, to some degree at least.
keep in mind that pve is required to get the best experience out of pvp. to unlock the elite skills, some of them are leaps and bounds above the normal ones in terms of power, you need to do the end game missions. and in those missions those "vampiric touch"-spaming N/W's (example) have no place at all.

i fully agree, evrqst123, the ?/W combination applies to all the casters. you paper bags have no place in melee when you are facing lvl28 monsters who rip you apart. of course this weakness can be somehow lessened with wards and stuff, but that won't cut it.
the armor value of gladiator armor against physical damage? 80+20+shield.
the armor value of elem armor against physical damage? 60+shield? not perfectly sure on that.
nontheless there's no reason to ignore this important fact.

at early levels this isn't much of a hassle, but in the last 3 missions it can get your entire group killed.

so to put it simple:
to the caster/warriors out there which this topic applies to (i don't type this to flame you, it just hopefully serves to improve the likelyhood of mission success).....when that lvl28 mob is beating on you, step back a lil and let the warrior primaries (whose main purpose pve-wise is to take the beating) grab the aggro. spaming heals endlessly to barely keep you alive is wasted mana and makes the mission which is hard enough already even more complicated.

yes, i and the other group members were (only once at least) the victims of two stubborn, ego-inflated N/W's who we wasted our precious healing energy on, only resulting in an ugly group-wipe.
i don't even wanna imagine how an elem/w fares in "hell's precipice", since necros got the most protective armor among the casters despite the wards.

In the defense of my N/W. I know when the time to switch is. In the later part of the game. N/W needs to play more of a support. Use life siphon on multiple guys. Invest in some tactics and use shots to help your team. I often bring Blood is Power to help out the monks on there energy. I always carry 2 sets of weapons a sword and shield and a staff with specs for my blood magic. Also Curses do well in helping your team cast a few faintheatedness on guys so they dont beat up your warriors as fast. Also Well of Blood is good for the main warrior tanks to keep the load of the monks.

I agree. Seriously, if a necromancer still thinks he should be the core melee damage dealer on a team at near end-game missions, he should replace his brain. In addition to the basic fact, weak armor, melee necros also divert a monk's attention from others who are getting attacked.

In the special case where one find no melee tanks in the group, then maybe there's an excuse to step up and take some hit for the team. Otherwise, please put your feet in monks shoes and play smart.

This is a problem I see with other classes and not just necros. It's important to know what your focus of attention is and think outside the small box. It's not fair to the more dedicated players that do not wish to waste time on those playing for kicks. Next time one someone asks you to do something and you respond with something like don't tell me how to play my job, usually they are trying to give you advice. Some builds are obviously inferior to others. Everybody realizes sooner or later that this a team-oriented game. Out of respect for others, while it's everyone's job to take down the enemy, please consider the most effective approach.

OK here is the deal guys. a N?W was never meant to be frontline. you only ise the warrior stances anyway. (and not very many of those) that and to unlock warrrior skills to use in PvP ifyou ever want to.

as far as the skills you listed for the las coupel of mission lolz.

faintheartedness lmao, DO NOT USE THAT THERE. bring curses that do damage, ie. desecrate enchantments, 6-140 direct dmage, Lingering curse, takes down all enchantments and only allows half healing. rotting flesh is good and so is mrk of pain or sould babrs, those do direct damage as well. if you want support bring well of power or something that helps the groupe heal and regen energy.

do not waste valuable skill slots on basic spells get creative and deal some long distance damage.

enfeebling blood/enfeeble and shadow of fear are incredibly useful on hells precipice and underworld/fissure yet they don't do any damage. hitting for half dpsbefore any wards or protection spells are counted is a huge debuff.

soul barbs? oh jeez.

Ok, I don't know what you are saying. If you meant that you shouldn't use offensive spells as a necromancer I disagree. I agree that many of the spells are horrid, but Putrid explosion for example is a fine Area of Effect spell, and dooes good damage to a pack for a fairly low cost, Death Novae on minions deal area damage very well and so on... I play a blood necro at the moment, and while I don't deal damage as well as an elementlist that's not the point - it's partly to exploit corpses for 6 pip (so far, I'm not maxed yet) blood wells to help my tanks out, while helping on the focus fire with spells that cut through armour. Very few single attributes can deliver that much healing, that much damage and pump up my comrades by that much energy (BiP is in the future...) all with a single attribute investment - yes, you get better damage from an elementlist, but then you lose out on the other good blood spells, and nobody minds when the +6 pips wells are up and the healer is BiPed, right? It's about what you bring with you, and how you use it. If you mean that they shouldn't try to ONLY do damage, that's true, but it gives you something to do between the rest of the stuff, especially before you have all 200 attribute points.

JUst because you play monk doesn't mean you are obliged to be a healler, but there is a whole thread on this topic elsewhere to discuss this.
As for the necro discussion. N/W tried it and it sucks at endgame areas. N/E is my choice, have finished the end missions with necro, it depends alot on your group.
My necro, basically used shadow of fear, elemental power glyph, then air magic, this gives 14 points to lighting spells, the damage could only be beaten by a elementalist air mage with runes for air equiped. Completed the ring of fire with the second group that I joined. The group worked well and we won.

I cant believe I signed up to this forum just to counter your points.

Necro is an excellent class and N/W is perfectly capable of playing front line in end game PvE. If you see them getting owned there is only one reason and that is the player sucks. I completed the last mission of the game with just 6 people 2 of which where henchman and me the only tank N/W of course and had absolutely no problems at all not a single person died at any point.

My brother and I both play N/W and I can confidently say we can go toe to toe with any tank in the game and proved it time after time out lasting Warrior primaries in PvE or plain defeating them in PvP.

At least I can understand your point but it has nothing to do with N/W but the player. Case in point we play with another person that uses N/W regularly and for the love of god cant stay alive. If we are doing PvE we purposely take Res Signet knowing we will need to use it on him.

So its not the class but the player, same goes for every other class combination so get off your high horse thinking you know better them people that played Necros from the beginning of the game and stop playing with crappy teammates.

Yes I agree, yet I play a mo/wa not in the sence ill be TANKING but so I can get to the person who needs healing faster with sprint also using balanced stance helps me to continue casting spells so I dont get knocked down repeatedly. And also when I see **/Wa tanking I will try my hardest to keep you alive but I have my priorities set on the TRUE tanks Wa/**. So if you do not feel like dieing stay back, play it cool, and do not waht ever you do think that ohh we have a monk he'll keep me alive, NO.

Not EVERY necro needs to stand back, raise minions, and spam well of blood/power. They can tank quite effectively, with the highest caster armor available, and enfeeble/enfeebling blood (and price of failure), as well as the oh-so-sweet mark of pain.

Heck, I can tank better than a lot of warriors... Armor of Earth + Ward against melee + enfeeble?

There is no one way to play the class. Just because you see some players who don't know their ***holes from earholes doesn't mean it's not an efficient combination.
Granted, N/W was never really meant to be a tank, but the right player with the right skills can make it happen.
Personally, it really irks me to see people come here and try to tell other people how to play their classes. It's their game, they paid for it, let them play it how they want.

Thx Sinclaire, I wanted to say the same thing.

I play a Monk/Ranger. I use a bow. I got chastised the other day for NOT using a staff or wand/focus combo. Well, I like my bow, its cool, its purple, it lengthens enchantments. I've always used a bow for the character's entire run. I like the sorta backstory of being the Monk/Ranger. Frankly, I don't give a flyin' fig that it isn't the most efficient build.... it was the build that *I* wanna play with.

My elementalist with armor of earth on can take hits better than warriors =P

I remember one game of Hell's Precipice, we finally cleared the titans around the portals, and I try to tell them to hold back so I can take the chain lightnings from the portal wraiths, but they don't listen. They charge in and instantly get vaporized by 2-3 chain lightnings, while I go in and take something like 50 damage per chain lightning =P

This has nothing to do with N/??? but rather moronic players who either don't understand how to best utilize their skills, don't want to best utlize their skills, or don't give a friggin' rats behind how to best utilize their skills. This thread and other like this are the exact same thing: Know how to play your class and skills best with the way you play the game. it has nothing to do due with class and class combos, only the player.

I agree with this to a certain extent. But when those same players begin to ruin the game for me, then it becomes very frustrating. I don't enjoy having to repeat missions multiple times because of one or two players who are simply playing the wrong profession for their playing style.

I like alternative designs, and think that just about any combination can be used effectively in PvE and PvP... even a pure Beast Mastery ranger could be played well by the right person. The problem comes in when people don't respect the other members in their team, or join a team when they have no intention or desire to actually play a role in that team.

Necros, Rangers and Elementalists who like to tank and attack from the front lines... cool, no problem, have fun. But if you join my team, play that role like an idiot, get in my way and cause the team to die repeatedly... you better bet that I'm going to say something about it.

I've got to say that I've started using Henchmen to complete most missions and quests, and frankly it totally sucks that I've decided to do that. I really was hoping for a more engaging team based experience in PvE... but it's just so rare to come across other players, whatever character design they have, that are really interested in playing together with others. Most of them are solo players who party up just because they have to, or because they aren't good enough to do it with henchmen. That's been my experience anyway.

@Lovag:

i see your point and as it appears to me you are a tad offended by what i said.
i'm not sitting on a high horse, not even a pony nearby .
yes, maybe i should have been more specific. i just was a lil upset after a N/W screwed a mission up again. it was a bad player who obviously didn't have the least knowledge about team tactics, let alone using his skills properly.

sadly there are quite a bunch of people like that in the game and in the last missions of the game's story line they can really screw an entire group up pretty quickly.

like i said, the devs wanted all class combinations to be viable. of course N/W CAN be viable, it's just that this class combination isn't as "basically straight forward" as caster/caster combos (ie stay in the back, use your skills properly, avoid melee as often as possible, etc).
playing a N/W requires strategy, the right skills, etc. it's just that the ones i met so far weren't capable of doing this.

on the last mission with my second character, a me/mo, i caught myself intentionally avoiding N/W's (caster/warriors in general) when building up a group.
yes, that may be unfair to that N/W there who maybe is even skilled for what he is doing, but too many of the caster/warriors i've met throughout the game have disappointed me too often.

pvp-wise, it's no problem mostly. it's almost exclusively guildies i group with, so we can discuss our shortcomings among each other.
but pve-wise, i can't help it. sorry.

about the necro/non-elem's trying to impersonate elementalists:
since i got a completed NE/MO myself i can distinguish the spells they cast most of the time. it's those guys who almost never cast anything else than...

1.) deathly swarm
2.) deathly chill
3.) vampiric touch
4.) etc.

excuse me, but wtf is that? now get this....one of those guys even went into melee range when he did cast that vampiric touch AND STAYED THERE. i asked him why he did that and he replied: "well, after casting vampiric touch for the first time, i just stay there, waiting for the skill to recharge, so i don't need to take that run again".i was so boggled i didn't know what to say. needless to say he died plenty on that mission.

that may sound arrogant a lil, but people who actually are eager to improve their team tactics and to adapt their playstyle accordingly to this game's mechanics almost seem to be in the minority. sadly .
a necro's dmg is situational (or special, ie weakening the enemy hardcore with curses), necros are NOT elementalists.....but somehow some of those necros still think they should be.

Totally agree, I have a N/Me right now who is used as of right now as a single thing, a support class. Never---EVER trying to deal the damage. That isn't the necro job people, not unless, as stated, you're part elementist. A necro's job most of the time, especially in my case, is to help the team and weaken/drain/befuddle the enemy as much as possible---our purpose is NOT to go and assume that a -10 degeneration will kill them off, such things are only to be used to keep you alive and to HELP your team killing them, or say, kill a mob that's running away.

I was thinking of switching to N/W for the fun of it, but I intend to keep my cruel staff handy, for higher PvE well lets face it, Necro's might look cool but that armor isn't going to keep you alive very long when you've got a giant fist/axe coming your way from a lvl 28, that's when it's time to step back and pull out your trusty staff to weaken/hex the enemies to help out those who CAN tank at those levels, not to help yourself kill them.

Respect the necro people!

A necromancer is a support class. Not a damage dealing class. Contrary to what most of you N/Ws and N/Es think, you don't do more damage than Warriors or Elementalists respectively.

A Warrior and Elementalist does more damage than you, and if he goes /Mo, probably heals himself better as well.

I just partied with a Necro last night (did the sanctum cay mission), and my god, i've never seen a better necromancer than him. He did everything really well, support, healing, and substantial damage (i was shocked at first). Necros are so useful in PvE.
To get back on topic, true each class should play their role (ive seen healing monks try to tank and its not really pretty against lvl 21 sand drakes).

Hehe now I know why I prefer to party with henchmen.
...and it's not because I hate Necro (wink).

Even though your name is a pretty color, I'd have to disagree. Granted, Warriors were built for Melee damage and Elementalist for Caster, but a Necro/Warrior can hold his or her own. Just weaken the enemy, and bring some health stealing skills as well. I won't say it's better than a warrior, but it can be pretty powerful.
Granted, W/N would be better, but I like the Necro look more.
Anyway, I don't think it's for you or anyone to dictate what type of class it is. If they can play it right (Or even not), it's their choice. If you don't like it, then don't group up with them. Simple as that.

I play an N/mo, so if you ever run into that one of my characters, you can sure as hell know I aint tankin. I tried a N/W once, after I heard about their great tanking abilities and got turned into a spot on the floor.

Basically, my skill set-up is Death magic, healing magic, and Blood magic. I stay back, heal you pretty well, then grow an army of baddies to help, and the only time I really let the party down was my first time as him at the Gates of Kryta, when I had accidently forgot I couldn't raise minions from skeletons, so half my skills were worthless. Luckily enough, me and the other healer kept everyone alive.

I've partied with a few N/W's with my various PvE characters that have been good tanks, so to the tanking Necro's who do it well, how do you do it? I had bad luck and now I'm curious as to exactly how it's done.

Wow I couldn't agree more.

Yeah, that's a real bugger when you have your stats set up for death magic. That attribute is absolutely USELESS in the early stages of Kryta with the undead. I'm sure if you're fighting the undead in the lava stages, it'll be just as bad then. But there's bound to be plety of other creatures around.

I play a N/Me myself and personally don't think I'm too good at it so far. I'm used to being the E(pyromancer)/W (which contrary to popular belief I can rush into battle and survive pretty well, mainly by throwing out a massive amount of damage and killing the opponent before they kill me). Now I'm in the position of staying in the back lines rather then the front. It's an interesting challege I tell you, I should get the hang of it by the time I'm ascended though.