Healing monk, what stats? (Mo/Me)

Multifaros

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

I just made a Mo/Me, she's lvl 4 now.
Its suppose to be a super-healing monk, very good in healing.
I know that im gonna take very much stats on healing prayers, some on
protecting and divine.

But what about the Me skills? Can someone that knows this well wright
exactly what stats im suppose to take for being the best healing monk ever?

Thank you. My healing monk will heal the world with your help.

Tormunda

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Well, just to give you a guide.
My 'best healing monk ever!' experience shows that by the time you hit HoH PvP and end game PvE, your secondary class gets no say.

It's Divine, Healing + Prot all the way. 8 Skills of Monk.

That's if you want to go pure healing. Obviously if you don't want the 'best healing monk ever' then you can squeeze in any other skills you like

Multifaros

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

Ok, so nothing on Me skills at all?

Should i even have mesmer skills on my skills table? Some of them are cool. And good.

Vinsanity

Vinsanity

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

btwn heaven & hell

Clan iSo [iSo]

Early on they are good, but once you get into the harder missions and quests there will be no need for them.

Multifaros

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

Ok thx. Now i know what to do.

Sleazy_D

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2005

Central Massachusetts

Legion of Gweep

Mo/Me

If you're shooting for pure, all-out healing, then ya, you'll have to go with Divine Favor, Healing Prayers, and start adding to Protection Prayers at some point.

However, the Mesmer skills can be great if you tone down the healing a little, say, run with just Orison of Healing, Healing Breeze, Divine Boon(you'll get this later), and a Ressurection spell. You then can either use the mesmer Domination skills to spank other casters, the Illusion skills to annoy warriors, or the Inspiration spells to steal energy, and make the oposing team less effective. This takes away from your protection magic, but if you're good with the [Tab] key, you can seriously harrass the enemy mobs, and greatly weaken their battle effeciency

Kinda depends on what you want to do... when I ran around with Henches all the time, I needed to bring a little offensive power with me to speed things along. Domination skills would cause a little damage, and steal energy from the supporting casters, meaning that although they would cause some damage early on in a battle, about 30 seconds into it, the mobs would be much less effective, and fell quickly.

Play what you like, and enjoy it.

However, all that said, most PuGs are pretty much only looking for Healers, and if you try to do something besides it, you get yelled at unless you're so good at it no one notices that you've not cast any healing spells. My suggestion is to get good with whatever you decide to do, and get very used to using the keyboard for most actions with the mouse aiding in tagetting party members, and moving the camera. You want to play your chosen input device like a virtuoso, not wrangle the mouse like a confused newborn.

Shandoo Bilari

Shandoo Bilari

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

NoVa

Dark Brotherhood

Mo/

You can always experiment on your own and then change your attribute points anytime based on what situation you are in!

/log_rolls away

Granamyr

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2005

Mo/

Do not totally write off your secondary as suggested. Monks go through energy very fast and have no attribute to aid in this and very few (if any) effective skills to deal with this problem. The inspiration line is your answer to this or go Mo/El and use glyphs.

You'll find a lot of complimentary monk skills in the earth line for protecting people and some great ways to remove hexes or enemy enchantments in the inspiration line.

You'll find that early on, you'll be a bit bored if all you do is heal so you'll definitely want to try out some of those damaging spells in domination or illusion...maybe even smiting if you think you can get close enough without dying.

Not that it's right that you have to do this but you might want to inform your team that you won't always be healing if you plan on smiting. The Guild Wars community is largely affected by a disease that makes them think they have the right to tell you how to play your character if you're a monk.

salatious

salatious

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Richmond, Va

Looking for a better Guild

E/Mo

if you want to be a nice healing monk then go elementilst as a second proffesion and just add the attribute points to Energy Storage.

Keira Darkwind

Keira Darkwind

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

UK

Clan Arthur

Mo/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by salatious
if you want to be a nice healing monk then go elementilst as a second proffesion and just add the attribute points to Energy Storage.
you can't do that - no access to Energy Storage, only if you are elem primary.

Azmodan

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

Mo/Me

Don't discount Ele/Mo either. I started one and love it. The energy storage attribute can get you up extremely high in energy. I would rather be able to cast more healing spells then get the small bonus from divine favor. Add in a little firestorm here and there and you got a pretty nice healer and damage machine.

Blind Panic

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by salatious
if you want to be a nice healing monk then go elementilst as a second proffesion and just add the attribute points to Energy Storage.
Energy Storage is the Elementalist Primary ability. You can't get it if you are an Mo/E. Just like an Elementalist/Monk can't get Divine Favor.

FireFox

FireFox

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

Texas

We Wear Sombreros [文文文], Ugly Ducklings [ugly]

wait wait wait...

Did you just call divine fave a small bonus?

I am a monk primary myself and I can tell you first hand the divine favor makes all the differance in the Tombs

Azmodan

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

Mo/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by FireFox
wait wait wait...

Did you just call divine fave a small bonus?

I am a monk primary myself and I can tell you first hand the divine favor makes all the differance in the Tombs
What is the max bonus that you get from divine favor, 42? How much more healing can you do if you can cast twice as many healing spells?

I also have a primary monk and I can get more healing done with the elementalist.

stumpy

stumpy

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2005

Canucklehead BC, Canada

Advanced Necro Undead Society

I wouldnt exactly drop the mesmer skills all together ... as your excess points throw a few in inspiration as this is where most of the energy gain you will use will be ... or at least look into it ... its not worth writing if off completely ... for example ... say you throw up a channeling, every other spell you cast will give you X amount of energy where x = number of enemies in area ... in pvp ... this number will generaly float around 4 in your area. So every skill now effectively costs 4 less (unless you intend on using the enchantment divine spirit which makes monk skills cost 5 less, which is useless recharge = 60 seconds)

so what i am trying to say is not to wipe the idea of your secondary yet, test a few skills out. Surely your bar will need to be stacked with monk skills but room for 1 mesmer skill is not going to kill you your spammable energy loss or lack of regen will or in the other circumstance ... me.

Keira Darkwind

Keira Darkwind

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

UK

Clan Arthur

Mo/Me

Divine Favour rocks all.

Don 't forget that it basically makes any spell you cast on an ally a healing spell. That's right, you cast a protection spell on an ally ,and it also heals them

Keira Darkwind

Keira Darkwind

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

UK

Clan Arthur

Mo/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azmodan
What is the max bonus that you get from divine favor, 42? How much more healing can you do if you can cast twice as many healing spells?

I also have a primary monk and I can get more healing done with the elementalist.
You can whack out more heals, but they are smaller heals. So, payoff - more, small heals, or less big heals. Both can be effective.

Tiedye

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azmodan
What is the max bonus that you get from divine favor, 42? How much more healing can you do if you can cast twice as many healing spells?

I also have a primary monk and I can get more healing done with the elementalist.
That's only true until you run out of energy. Then, you're stuck regenerating energy at the same speed as a primary monk. The only difference is that, with divine favor, each point of energy is worth more healing. This means that Elmos will have the advantage at the very start of the match, but they lose the advantage quickly (especially if they're tossing around offensive spells in addition to healing), and then are considerably less effective than primary monks.

As far as using Mesmer skills in a healing build, what about Channeling? The only down-side to channeling is its horrible range, but since monks usually attract enemy warriors, that may not be such a problem. That 1 energy stolen is a 10-20% decrease in the cost of most healing spells.

Azmodan

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

Mo/Me

If I have to burn through over 100 points of energy during a fight, there is a problem. Obviously you wouldn't be using offensive spells if the fight were that tough.

Low level healing? With maxed out healing prayers and divine favor, Orison of healing will do 102 hp of healing. Two Orison of healings will do 120 hp of healing. That's more by my count. Now look at Heal Other. 193 hp of healing with monk primary and 302 hp of healing with elementalist primary. Huge difference there.

If the battle rages on for that long, yes, a primary monk would have some advantage. But, I would hope that the rest of the party can help themselves a little so I don't have to constantly heal them.

Here is a more in depth explanation and this is what made me decide to go with this build.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/content...ght-id1053.php

Jana

Jana

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

Knights of the Silver Flame

Mo/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azmodan
If I have to burn through over 100 points of energy during a fight, there is a problem. Obviously you wouldn't be using offensive spells if the fight were that tough.

Low level healing? With maxed out healing prayers and divine favor, Orison of healing will do 102 hp of healing. Two Orison of healings will do 120 hp of healing. That's more by my count. Now look at Heal Other. 193 hp of healing with monk primary and 302 hp of healing with elementalist primary. Huge difference there.

If the battle rages on for that long, yes, a primary monk would have some advantage. But, I would hope that the rest of the party can help themselves a little so I don't have to constantly heal them.

Here is a more in depth explanation and this is what made me decide to go with this build.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/content...ght-id1053.php



I disagree with this 100%. Comparing a primary monk to a primary elementalist is like comparing apples and oranges. Both fruits... that's about it.

Monk primaries DO NOT need alot of energy to do their jobs. With the divine skills like Divine spirit, they need very little anyway. They just need to be smart and not overheal, which is WAY too easy to do with an elementalist primary.


On the subject at hand... one of the best skills (elite) I use now as a mesmer secondary is ECHO. Great skill when used with other skills you need recharged fast (like healing seed and aegis, and others). In the far later stages of the game (FoW and UW, etc and in PvP), it's really the only non-monk skill I take with me, but not always... depends on the situation.


Jana

Azmodan

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

Mo/Me

I never said to over heal. And, an elementalist primary still has to use energy wisely. They just don't have to worry as much.

I also never said to forget the primary monk and go with the elementalist. I believe my first post said not to rule it out. It is an option and a viable one at that.

I use both and think that the elementalist primary suits my playing style better.

stumpy

stumpy

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2005

Canucklehead BC, Canada

Advanced Necro Undead Society

if you havent a way to speed up energy regen, you will face issues. I have played both and the prim mon/mes isnt even in the same ballpark. Its in the major leagues. An ele/mo makes for a better back up healer for 2 reasons ... a monk/mesmer echoing an o spell for 102 loses next to no energy. 5 energy at first echoed and regen'd in time for next spell. Secondly a monk/mes has more versitality in a group. If you have a warrior that can blind a foe / follow his targets and drop you spirit of failure (regening large amounts of energy all the time) I have had little success when being a primary healer as E/Mo ... if you think you are better suited ... by all means I wish you luck. But I warn you to take as many of the 5 cost skils as possible. Running breeze, protective spirit (<<<- which you will need), or any other10+ spell ... will chop your energy down much too fast ... and with no regen will utter you useless at some point or another in battle.

Halaku

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2005

I don't want to disagree with Azmodan totally, a bigger energy pool is always nice, just that it doesn't outweigh divine favor for a few reasons.

a) You actually in the long run save energy with divine favor. Not in the one or two casting range, but in the multiple casting range, a divine favor spell say heals someone for a 1/3 of their health, a non-divine favor spell heals someone for a 1/4. in the short run, those points aren't going to matter, in the long run after multiple healings, you are actually casting the spell less often on someone because they are being healed more health.

b) Often its not one person being smacked, its two or three. Now heal party is nice, but it does have a rather high healing rate, and heal area heals everything, bad guys and good. So after casting a heal party, sometimes you need to multiple person cast orison of healing. Simply put a person who is healed more health can go for a bit longer until his next wave of healing. That extra bit longer allows you to cast your orison on someone else, before moving over to the initial person again. Bigger energy pools don't give you more time, just more ability to cast more spells

c) While monk energy pools are rather small, their spells cost rather small amounts to cast. heal party is what, 15 energy, and you get off really 5 healing spells at ones, a net gaint of 10 energy. Orison only costs five energy, and if its to the point you can barely keep up on damage by spamming orison that you can't wait the 5 seconds for the 5 energy to come back, you're in a world of hurt already. Third the energy regain is rather quick to 5 or even ten points.

To the original OP: I have a Mo/Me with healing, smiting/protection (depending if I am soloing or grouping or going against undead) , divine favor, and inspiration magic. inspiration is nice where if you suddenly find yourself out of energy and you NEED just a quick energy boost, you can steal it and go. Give you that same larger energy pool, and divine favor all at once. With the extra benefit that you steal energy from someone else.

Azmodan

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

Mo/Me

All good points. But, it seems that someone thinks a monk regens faster. Not true. A monk primary and an Elementalist primary will regen at the same rate. That is unless I'm missing something. I get a regen of 4 on both of them.

theclam

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

Spells like Divine Boon, Divine Spirit, Signet of Devotion are another advantage that primary monks have. In addition, spells like Reversal of Fortune become possible replacements for Orison of Healing on your skill bar. Spells like Healing Breeze or Shielding Hands become much more effective, because they heal your target in addition to their effect.

Quote:
Low level healing? With maxed out healing prayers and divine favor, Orison of healing will do 102 hp of healing. Two Orison of healings will do 120 hp of healing. That's more by my count. Now look at Heal Other. 193 hp of healing with monk primary and 302 hp of healing with elementalist primary. Huge difference there.
With Divine Favor, all your spells become much, much more energy efficient. When you add in Signet of Devotion and Divine Boon, you may find that a primary monk actually is much better, even in shorter battles.

Edit: I forgot, only a primary monk can use monk runes.

PrimeHealer

PrimeHealer

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2005

Divine favor is not a small bonus, I have a skill called divine healing (divine favor att) and it heals the whole party for 210hp, i dont think that is small. For those of you who say el/mo make better healers that is false..divine boon lets you do big heals, and in tombs when you are getting your energy sucked awya, bit heals are better, energy wont matter. If you want to be a good healing monk then you wont put any points in your secondary class. I am mo/mes and I dont think Ive ever used the mes part of me, so pretty much you can be mo/anything cause if youre going healer or protect then you wont need secondary...only advantage of mes as secondary is when it comes time to fight your mirror image then mo/mes can wipe him out in about 10 seconds...other secondaries i do not know. Anyways have fun with your monk =)

alvin

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: May 2005

IMHO it is the combinations that make primary Monks clearly better healers.

Say I use Heal Party where 3 people are low (many times it is more then this)
Monk: 510 Health (Heal Party+Divine Boon+Divine Favor)*3
Elem: 201 Health (Heal Party)*3

A Monk does not need near as much energy as an Elem to heal, so by the time a Monk runs out an Elem will run out as they had to use twice as much. And when both are out the Monk will be healing for 163 every few seconds while the Elem heals for 60.

And then you combine some smite enchantments and you are dealing some good damage to nearby enemies while you heal.

Halaku

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azmodan
All good points. But, it seems that someone thinks a monk regens faster. Not true. A monk primary and an Elementalist primary will regen at the same rate. That is unless I'm missing something. I get a regen of 4 on both of them.
No, I wasn't saying that at all. Monks and Elementalists regen at the same rate. But to a Elementalist, 5 points of energy gives you one flare to a monk 5 points gives you one Orison of healing.

I'd rather be able to squeeze a bit more healing juice out of the Orison because of the divine favor, then having a large pool, that is totally empty. The difference between a 1/3 and a 1/4 of the healing may just be enough of the energy coming back to 5 before getting to cast it.

Most decent Elemtentalist spells with bonuses or AoE start at the 10 energy range. A monks bread and butter is only 5. Squeeze that extra bit of healing in there, and you have the time to regen that 5 points.

alvin

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: May 2005

I have a question on divine boon. When I have it on and I have only 5 energy Orison still works. It seems that you only lose 2 energy if you got 2 extra to lose. So I never turn off Boon as I am getting the extra health and if i am low on energy i dont seem to lose the 2 extra energy anyways.

stumpy

stumpy

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2005

Canucklehead BC, Canada

Advanced Necro Undead Society

Monks and Elementalist do regen at the same rate ... and both have ways off effectively knocking down spell costs ... the only thing your weighing in the end is the divine vs. energy storage.

so its your call but imo divine will help more ... but thats just from my proven practice, and prefernce .. I had an Elem/Mo all the way to the Arch and cut her loose because of the simple fact (it wasn't enough ... I would and could run out fast because I would have to cast more spells in the end anyways ... so energy pool was now not on my priority list)

Now I have Monk primary and I findit alot easier ... if your gonna play a healer role (juice up your healing and divine) and you will be fine. Add a mesmer secondary and now you can effectively siphon energy off no matterwhat your group build is.

Sleazy_D

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2005

Central Massachusetts

Legion of Gweep

Mo/Me

I'm just wondering why there are a bunch of threads that come down to whether E/Mo can be competative with Mo/any... The question was about Mo/Me builds.

As for the E/Mo question, ya, I've seen them pump out the heals, and keep doing it. There is no question that the energy well runs deep, and it is fine for healing a party that is taking some mid-level combat damage. They will have a hard time handling spike damage, but what can you do?

Oh, and if my monk really needs to pump out the major heals the combo (Mo/Me) that rules is:

Arcane echo
Orison of Healing
Divine Boon
And a buddy necromancer casting Blood is Power on you.

2 Orison of healings, all ready to go (for 20 seconds), +40-something Devine favor 60-something from Divine Boon, and Orison's 60 health. Every second.

Ketendra

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

New York

JackKnife Brigade

E/Mo

E/Mo = can heal longer but heals little bits at a time
Mo/E = cant heal as long but heals much bigger bits at a time

they end out about the same in the end - its just that monks do it faster
personally I would do the Mo/anything - faster healing is better than little heals