New Patch makes Henchmen like moron

yangmesh

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jun 2005

The new patch updated on June, 8th fix some bugs for Henchman. but only makes them more likes morons. This is what happened. two healer one died in a distance place, another still followed player, after player got killed protect monk trying to run all the way back to revive other healer and got stuck before on bridge. while other henchmen around u and doing nothing, they seems lost ability to use rez signet.

Judas Hawksriff

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

UK

Guardians Of Gwen

W/R

....what do you mean "makes"? Henchmen have always been dumb - lets face it - if they were smart they wouldn't need us to hold their hand around a level so they can get their hands and gold n stuff - they'd be out their with the rest of us, fighting the good fight, then where would we be, we'd be stuck at a town for hours trying to get a party together, only no-one will join you 'cos your not a monk?!

God bless em for being dumb - thats what I say!

Yantaal Silver Leaf

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: May 2005

Jolly old England

Prophets of Something

R/Me

I suppose you could say that, but more than one i entered a quest, only to notice my healer running away about 200ft in the air. This also happened with my enchanter as well. But i think they sorted it now. And and alos one time, my fighter was the only one left, instead of healing anyone, he stood there, motionless.


So i curse them and they flying...

MaglorD

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

Henchmen have always had this bug...ie getting stuck or floating etc. Actually the developers have been improving henchmen. Previously they died too easily to mursaat, now they are much better. There are also other improvements if you look carefully.

I agree though they need to fix the two major issues with henchmen:

1. Getting stuck in the scenery...
2. Running ahead to the scene of the battle when everyone dies and gets auto-resurrected instead of waiting for the PC...

Deathlord

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

PVP Ranger: Does Stuff Fast

XXX

W/Mo

Yeah, henchmen were always dumb. You cannot compare them to real people, even though there are occasions where they're smarter than some *COUGH*. I believe they fixed the Run away after respawning during the patch. Sometimes their AI is just wacky, for one minute they may barely heal/attack wrong targets and do nothing. Sometimes they may keep the entire party up 90% and nuke the enemies to death in the best spot. An example would be me doing the heroes challenge. During the first 12ish deaths they were utterly retarded. After our 14th death they starting getting smarter and was capable of keeping us alive on a 10 mob somehow even with 60 dp. Compare this to our slaughtering on a 7 mob with 15 dp and you'll see how weird they are. Just depends how lucky you are!

Danica Kalmar

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

Austria

yeah, but now henchies tend to stay in front of me, makes no sense, as no one is a meele char, especially alesia always stays in front of me, taking on 4 snow ettins.

Aka

Aka

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

Alesia is suicidal. There's no other explanation. I have rebirth, so I can rez from a distance and regroup pretty well after a wipeout, but I always heve to rez her last, or she'll go flying off to attack whatever just killed us. Madness that I would have to rez my healer last...

But I haven't noticed any change since the patch. I'll keep an eye out.

Juhanah

Juhanah

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2005

in my house

I think henchmen are pretty good. Sometime they get stuck in weird places.. But it is possible to unstuck them by running around them in different direction.

Sometime i got my NPCs stuck to the point that once i managed to get it unstuck, 2 other got stuck at the same place. (it was in Ring of Fire mission just where you meet the first Lava Imps) They were getting stuck in the mountain.. took me about 5 minute to get everyone out of there for good.

1 thing people probably forget when playing with henchmen, is that they have skill recharge time and energy to regain also. Give them the time to regenerate before running in next fight and they will perform a lot better


I was in the desert the other day with henchmen. the whole party but Reyna got killed by Hydras. When i died, there was 1 hydra left. She used Troll Unguent, Resurection Signet on me and she finished up the hydra before i could resurect Stefan.. I wanted to give her a Forgotten Seal since it looks like a medal.. but she didn't take it

The Henchmen are better than i could ask. Even if we can't control them, they are a lot better than many player i played with hehe.

Shadowdaemon

Shadowdaemon

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2005

Anderson IN USA

Ecks Di [xD]

W/N

they did fix the running off and getting stuck with the patch, sometimes henchmen do ok, i passed several hard missions with them, other times they will be silly, and have fun killing a level 28 healer boss with them, can take a half hour, but they have been improved

Julia Darkheart

Julia Darkheart

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2005

Pennsylvania

Nocturnal Expressions (NoX)

W/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aka
Alesia is suicidal. There's no other explanation. I have rebirth, so I can rez from a distance and regroup pretty well after a wipeout, but I always heve to rez her last, or she'll go flying off to attack whatever just killed us. Madness that I would have to rez my healer last...

But I haven't noticed any change since the patch. I'll keep an eye out. OMG, since the patch she is absolutely insane... Something really has to be done about this. I mean, she's got a "Xena Complex". She thinks she's some immortal goddess warrior rather than just a henchmen, a healer henchmen at that. (No offense to the Monks out there, I'm one myself). But she rushes into the fray of 5-10 beasts, rather than sitting in the background and healing. She never runs... God forbid we call her a coward. Then, the party's there without a healer, or in some cases, I'm stuck trying to heal everyone, and well.. The henchies ability to fight isn't the greatest.

To add to matters, the new patch basically made the "MOB's" "Kill the Cleric". That's all fine and dandy, but for GOD's sake, give Alesia some brains to run off or something. This is a real issue, almost makes her a worthless henchmen.

jtm

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2005

I noticed she dies a lot more often now, much more than before. I was doing thirsty river to capture Ether Renewal, and she runs off right into the scorpions in the beginning, then she stands there and dies. It happened 2 times, because she kept dying and the party would die because no healer (later in the mission that is). But I mean wtf, why does she run out in front of me, seriously, she should stay in the back where she belongs.

PieXags

PieXags

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2005

The Infinite Representation Of Pie And Its Many Brilliances

I love the henchmen, beat most all of the game with them except a few missions. I never have problems with them not doing their jobs, sometimes they do it too well and make battles last forever if I die by chance, but that's being smart---if they didn't they'd lose the battle, so there you go.

The only things that made me mad before were them running off to the last guy we fought at respawn getting stuck in the ground. And they fixed that, so I've no more problems. I actually keep an eye on my teammates, so they never get stuck in the scenery, and they always do much better---MUCH better, than any pick up group I've been in.

Way to go henchmen. They're awesome once you learn how to pay attention to them.

jtm

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2005

Ever notice their stupidity to walk in poison swamp water? I just laugh when I see all henchmen poisoned, and the humans aren't. Yes they are good, I have done a lot of missions with them.

badinfo

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jun 2005

I have found Alesia to run more now than she did before, she still dies a lot but I have had to run after her to try and kill whatever is attacking her. She does still tank occasionally, which is annoying.
I have played mostly with henchies so far, and they do have their problems. One thing that cracks me up is Orion's use of the flaming AOE spell, he always seems to use it just as I kill the last critter.

Vladmoney

Vladmoney

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

Charter Vanguard

W/E

They are not suppose to be perfect, jeez. Hench are suppose to be worse and stupider then people, they are an alternative not a replacement. I hate how people just want the game to be easier and easier, they are just getting rid of the challenge. Sure you maybe be upset but who cares, they messed up one time, whats the deal?

badinfo

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jun 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladmoney
Hench are suppose to be worse and stupider then people..... Lol, thats a pretty tall order considering......

Shadowmagi

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: May 2005

Hehe considering that stupider isn't a word, heh i like to point out that sometimes i prefer henchies to ppl, ppl dont listen and go off and do rambo dumb**** stuff. Kudos to the devs for the updates with the henchies... And man, its "more stupid" . (yes it is acceptable to start a sentence with and )

Danica Kalmar

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

Austria

the henchies are now all a bit suicidal, they often run ahead of me, and i usually don't have Stefan of Thom with me and Alesia always runs in front of me when I try to pull a group, resulting in her swift death because all of the mobs and not only half of them attack her.

Rhunex

Rhunex

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Dark Nightmare

E/

Give the henchmen a break...it's not their fault their brain isn't complete...it's your fault...every last one of you. And I'm only saying that because no one has before...there's really no evidence backing it up but I said it anyways so deal with it:P

Anyways, henchies aren't so bad...If you take the time and do missions with them slowly, and take wide turns around corners, they don't get stuck on the terrain as much, and you have fewer problems. I've soloed the entire game with them, excluding Hell's Precipice which is pretty much impossible with henchmen, no matter how good they are.

And to ^ Danica Kalmar...
Yes...Alesia runs in front because the henchmen follow you buy going to a point relative to your body, and for some reason...the programmers though..."Yeah...she's a healer so she must be in the front...yeah...that's good...put her in the front so everyone hates her and so everyone wants a /killnpc <name> conmmand that we'll never give them...yeah...mmmhmhmhmmmhmmm..."

I don't like Alesia for that same reason, but I usually get to slaughter the enemy while they slaughter Alesia who is then ressed by Lina, or another hench(if it's my monk...then it's me).

Danica Kalmar

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

Austria

I usually only play with henchies, the missions I redo with my friends, and I have no "real" problems with them. Still not done the frost gate mission, but already reached the temple of ages, with henchies only.

It is hard work sometimes, but I know how they act and adopted my playstyle accordingly. Still makes them act like morons sometimes, more so since the last patch.

Julia Darkheart

Julia Darkheart

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2005

Pennsylvania

Nocturnal Expressions (NoX)

W/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowmagi
Hehe considering that stupider isn't a word, heh i like to point out that sometimes i prefer henchies to ppl, ppl dont listen and go off and do rambo dumb**** stuff. Kudos to the devs for the updates with the henchies... And man, its "more stupid" . (yes it is acceptable to start a sentence with and ) Actually, it is a word, it's just not considered good grammar.

stu-pid

adj. stu-pid-er, stu-pid-est

Slow to learn or understand; obtuse.
Tending to make poor decisions or careless mistakes.
Marked by a lack of intelligence or care; foolish or careless: a stupid mistake.
Dazed, stunned, or stupefied.
Pointless; worthless: a stupid job.
n.
A stupid or foolish person.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Latin stupidus, from stupre, to be stunned.]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

stupidly adv.
stupidness n.

Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

Lament Messon

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2005

Don't know about you all, but my W/Mo did the ENTIRE last mission with only henchmen. That's ONLY henchmen. Killed the undead you know who, and the big nasty you know who, and even the armageddon who's a whatzitz for the bonus.

I think you just need to learn how to control your henchmen. Early on though I will agree they play very poorly, but near the end they pull out all the stops.

Lament

Eli Rela

Eli Rela

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2005

USA

N/

I also have to admit that Alesia is much more suicidal now... though the rest of them are better in general...
Alesia tend to stay right in front of me, not heal when needed, rush into the battle totally forgetting about her duties.
Just recently (2 days ago) I used henches in the Blood and Smoke quest and she died almost in every mob encounter.
I would never ever use Orion as he is attacking right after a battle is over...my usual pick is Stefan, Thom, Durhan, Cultist (what-is-her-name) and, yes, Alesia.
What I would love to see is some kind of control over them like Attack, Defend, Hold as it was discussed on many occasions in many forums.

Bloody Murrey

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2005

PieXags wrote: "The only things that made me mad before were them running off to the last guy we fought at respawn getting stuck in the ground. And they fixed that, so I've no more problems."

Talking about getting stuck in the ground I fell into an invisible hole on a bridge last night. My henchmen helped me fight off 2 hordes of creatures that included Sand elementals but I never got out of the hole and had to warp back to town.

Porkchop Sandwhiches

Porkchop Sandwhiches

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2005

Fishing Village in Wizard's Folly

R/

Since the patch Alesia will rez in mid battle way more often. While I was mowing my way through Snake Dance, she kept rezzing me as soon as I dropped... so the other henchmen kept dying more, and I often got killed as soon as she rezzed me, just so she could try to rez me again. She's a bit itchy to rez That, and I noticed when we all revive, she starts trying to rez someone even through they're alive, lol.

I definatly had 60 DP at the end of the trip.

elenna

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

PHC

I've noticed since the last patch that the henchmen have a more distinct formation around my characters. I hate the new formation since it puts most of them in front of my character. I die more often now when soloing with henchmen.

I've tried to get in front of the henchmen, but as soon as I get even with them, they move to get in front of me.

And I agree about Alesia. She is always right up there with the tanks. I just don't understand her plan.

Howling Wind

Howling Wind

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

Down The Road

R/Mo

I'm glad they fixed the hencmans running away after getting revived but when your exploring and you target a monster and then change, some times they will run off even though your heading another direction and they only follow back if you change target to another monster. Well I guess this isn't a huge problem but can be annoying in some places.

I really would like to see a feature where you can command your henchmans to attack while you stay back, this is especially good for long-range damagers because most of the time my ranger has to get in the sight of the enemy and target them before the henchies atk but that sometimes makes you the first priority target for the monster enemies.

Still henchmans are quite good overall, I've done 98% of the quests (not missions) with henchmans and used them for the dragons lair mission and they were extremely good in the mission, there wasn't a single moment that seemed like we were ever in trouble or struggling a little bit, it was cakewalk. The only I couldn't do with them was kill Glint.

Bloody Murrey

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2005

Having features allowing more contol of NPCs would definately be a welcome feature. Being able to make them ALL run away from a slaughter wqould be nice. The henchmen DO stay with me better since patch but I still lose at least one straggler who refuses to retreat almost everytime I get in a bind and have to bail.

Alderman Sweet

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2005

W/E

The henchmen aren't the worst AI I've ever seen, but they're a long way from the best. The new formation thing is very annoying, and I just sit there staring in disbelief every time Alesia flings herself at a bunch of enemies. Funny thing: enemy groups with healers and mages don't do this kind of thing, or at least I've never seen it. They "know" how to form up. Their casters stay back. I don't see what's so hard about making the hench casters behave at least as sensibly as the enemy casters. I have my hands full with the monsters. I don't need to fight my henches.

theclam

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

I use henchmen for everything but missions and I have only found a couple problems:

1. Pathfinding. Henchmen get stuck on things and you can't get auto-ressed.

2. Caster AI is bad. The Mesmer uses Imagined Burden (WTF?), if he ever casts at all. The Necro needs to use Blood Ritual a lot more and shouldn't use sacrifices when he's getting hammered. The Monk AI is pretty good, except for the fact that Alesia sometimes gets way too close. I think that maybe she's trying to use Healing Touch on the tanks. Lina is a goddess. A GODDESS. Going back to earlier missions, I feel a big difference because she isn't there. I'm actually pleasantly surprised at how good the AI is in this game, compared to other games that I've played, especially FPS games (they have to compensate for the complete lack of intelligence with godly aim). Henchmen are actually very effective in GW.

MaglorD

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alderman Sweet
The henchmen aren't the worst AI I've ever seen, but they're a long way from the best. The new formation thing is very annoying, and I just sit there staring in disbelief every time Alesia flings herself at a bunch of enemies. Funny thing: enemy groups with healers and mages don't do this kind of thing, or at least I've never seen it. They "know" how to form up. Their casters stay back. I don't see what's so hard about making the hench casters behave at least as sensibly as the enemy casters. I have my hands full with the monsters. I don't need to fight my henches. Like theclam said, I think she's trying to use healing touch too. LOL. Playing a monk, I find Alesia quite alright....as long as I keep her alive...can be quite a challenge sometimes, she does an ok job.

I notice the monsters always try to target the weakest character...so it's usually poor Orion or Claude or Alesia who get beaten up first.

Cap'n Hoek

Cap'n Hoek

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Sunny California

Ancient Avatars

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danica Kalmar
the henchies are now all a bit suicidal, they often run ahead of me, and i usually don't have Stefan of Thom with me and Alesia always runs in front of me when I try to pull a group, resulting in her swift death because all of the mobs and not only half of them attack her. What if you run backwards?

Alderman Sweet

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2005

W/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by theclam
Lina is a goddess. A GODDESS.
Agree 100%. She's definitely my favorite hench.

elenna

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

PHC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cap'n Hoek
What if you run backwards? Tried that. Doesn't work.

Skrilling

Skrilling

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

USA

I solo a lot of stuff so adding henches isn't like adding a crutch with which to get through the mission, its more like taking a bunch of low lvl guildies through a mission as a high lvl person. They get in the way, they die, and they do stupid stuff, but as long as they take at least a little heat off your back, you can save them later. Also, i believe the henchmen should be worse than people. This way, people actually go to other people to do missions instead of just grabing henchmen. However, with the new influx of people that are, shall we say, "suspiciously unexperianced bordering on mischeviousness" since the end of the beta events, henchmen are once again a viable option. An example of said persons would be a W/Mo that dies in a 1v1 to a fire imp 5 lvls less than him and blames the groups monk, because of course everyone knows that W/Mo's have the least survivability ever and are totally hopless and shouldn't be expected to take multiple creatures several lvls higher than themselves with good results. And yes i saw that happen. Since many of you are not from the betas, in the betas you would almost expect an elem to solo 2 executioners without breaking a sweat, so much so that if the elem lost, it was because the group monk assumed that you would win and wasn't watching you, or at least all the groups I was in had these and similar attributes.

Odai

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2005

Columbus, Ohio

A couple weeks ago I ran across a post statign that the henchmen arrange themsleves according to the order you pick them.
Ever since I read that post I always pick Stefan and Thom first, my mages next and my healers last.
When I stop the fighters are in front of me, the mages are either besiode me or behond me, and the healres are clear in the back.

I have never had Alesia take off after a bad guy. Sometimes the bad guys run past everyone, including me, to get at her but most of teh time she manages to hang on long enough for help to come to her rescue.

I also watch what I'm running into. If it looks as if I need to do some planning- more often than not I need to do some healing- I stop far enough away that Stefan and Thom don't take off on me to start the fight.

Whenever I engage in battle I always call the first target adn that is the one the henchies attack. If it looks like I'm abouttoget myu hat handed to me I "call the target" as the one attacking me and they drop off from their individual fights and come to my rescue.

I always watch my overhead for any critters coming from the sides. Several times my henchies got too close and started to chase the critter; I call myself as the target and they come running back. I think if the henchies are not actually engaged in a fight they always come back.

What I really hate is when one of them gets hung up on something.
Alesia innparticular likes the view from the first catapult in the Seers mission. I just can't seem to get her off it


I forgot to add:
When I got my armor infused it seems to have also infused the armor of all the henchies and their armor continues to be infused after completeing that mission.