Anet Is doing a great job... But they should remember a few things

Anet is in a bit of a tough spot here. On one hand, they have pretty much established that they are the most responsive developer team in the history of online games... On the other, now they have to try to live up to it.

Let me begin this by stating a basic rule of human nature. One person can be enlightened and intelligent and generally be on the ball.. People in groups however are complete idiots. The more people you get in a room, the lower the collective IQ. You would think that the effect would be quite the opposite, but trust me... that isn't the case. On the internet, that effect is generally twice as pronounced.

Rule number two: The worse the idea is, the more loudly an outspoken minority will support it. (see numerous threads on this very forum for reference)

Rule Number Three: The definition of a compromise (the way I see it) is a solution to a problem in which nobody is truly happy, but the maximum number of people are shut up.


This thread is written in the hope that maybe somebody from Anet will stumble across it and take it to heart.

Don't try to appease the avid (but often misguided) masses of Guild Wars Fans.

Don't let a bad idea get into the game just because there is a very vocal minority clamoring for it.

Don't compromise

This is a hell of a game, and I've thought so for the past two years while I watched it evolve. I would hate to see it warped away from its origional purity just because some people can never be happy.

If anyone thinks i'm out of line, go ahead and let yourself be heard. But remember that Gwen hates flame threads and will hurt you if you turn this into one.

If A.Net wants to pull this game out of the gutter, they need to look back at when people liked the game. When the worst thing anyone ever said was a misguided "20 levels? that sucks" or made suggestions about simplistic dyes! BETA! Beta was when we liked guildwars. Then they had to go and screw everyone on release. So what exactly does beta mean? It means UAS. And while they're add it, Unlock All Runes. And even Unlock All Upgrade Components. PvEers can bitch all they want. They have no grounds to complain. PvPers don't need to "earn" anything but they're rank and personal skills and team skills. And PvEers won't get screwed anyway. It's not like they can't make a PvP character, and if all their slots are filled up with 4 PvE characters? Well... That sounds like a personal problem to me. I don't make 4 PvP characters and then complain that I have no slots left.

Gwen already incinerated me... And I enjoyed it. If gwen came back and did it again, perhaps it would be the beta coming back, and I could hope that the next thing coming would be UAS and UAR.

Noone likes the game?
Sorry, but, mhm... never mind.

What about opening your eyes? There are quite a few people that like the game.


your PvE vs PvP points are just crazy, sorry to say, but you obviously didn't try to understand the "PvE"-People (but the problem is: there are PvE-People that like to do PvP, you need to consider this. There is more than just black and white - open your eyes and see the colors)

I think I'm turning the game off for a week or so until the next patch. Maybe when I wake up this nightmare will be over.

I have family over until next week and they're taking up all my time. Hopefully when they go next week just after update day there will be a miraculous change

The OP has good points, alas they have already been lost insofar as AN is concerned. Giving in to the minority who are whining about 'the grind' (it is patently obvious none of these players have ever endured a real grind in a game that they think GW is one) is very quickly removing the interest my partner and I have in playing.

We're not interested in seeing the rewards for PvE minimalized to keep PvP players happy.

We're not interested in seeing what time investment is required minimalized because some 13 year old (ok, ok... some 21 year old) doesn't think they should have to spend any time at the game to succeed at it.

We're not interested in having the sense of accomplishment undermined by increasing drop rates to make someone who has no interest in anything outside the arenas happy.

We've decided to stay through 20 (we're about 18 now) and hope things improve. If not, we'll be saying goodbye to Guild Wars.... if they're willing to compromise what challenge there is in the game to keep a group that doesn't care or appreciate anything but the arenas, they just aren't the game for us.

Rule number two: The worse the idea is, the more loudly an outspoken minority will support it. (see numerous threads on this very forum for reference)

That's all I have to say about that.

As to all these comments about GW going to the dogs and such... I don't think it has, yet. Though this recent patch seems like a bit of a temporary band-aid. I do hope everything gets set straight in the long run.

This bit about going back to when people liked the game... I think it's a bit much. I still like it quite a bit. I don't agree with a few of the changes that they have made, but I still have faith that they are going somewhere with this.

Fluidfox,

Good Post! I having been playing "games" since I was a child. "Risk" was my first and favorite when I was younger. I have played many many "Board Type" games since then. When computers came into being, well, of course I jumped at the possiblities of playing more games. I have been playing computer games since 1980. (On a TS-80 machine/Tape drive/all TYPE based)
I moved on through other systems. "Intellivision", "Commodore 64/128", My first IBM Clone 386 DX/40 w/4 megs ram . Now of course I play on the later type systems. My friends and I DREAMED of the day we could play with real people online in a nice graphic universe. Well that day has come. This is my first online game. (I will NOT pay another monthly bill...I have enough of those )

For all of Guild Wars "shortcomings" it is a wonderful game to play. The weak link to me is not so much the software as the HumanWare. People in this game are so rude and childish,selfish,etc. My friend's list is short. I only add decent/kind/caring people. They do not have to be a super player either. They do not have to be high level. They only have to be considerate of others and play nice. I have had more people ask me into their Guild because I take my time and "try" to play smart. In my time on this earth I have seen people become more and more rude and selfish. Ever drive on a freeway in rush hour? More and more people just do not care for others. They are pushy and short tempered. For what?? To save 5-10 minutes in a busy commute to and from work? This additude has carried over to the internet as well.

Guild Wars is a GREAT game. People of my age group have waited years and YEARS for such a game to play. I will not let spoiled brats get in my way. I am not talking age groups either. I have found allot of teen-aged players that are enjoyable to play with. I have found that women seem to be better players over men. It is a known fact that women tend to be more "detailed minded" then men too. This is a generalization I know. But a good one.

I will give ArenaNet time to make their fixes. I assume they are learning on the fly as well. I doubt I will ever see the perfect game in my lifetime so I am going to enjoy what I have now. It is way better then little sprite characters that I have played with over the years.

If anyone sees me online and understands what I am talking about here then feel free to ask me to join your groups. I do not care if you are starting a new character and it is an old mission/quest. I am willing to help and learn from YOU as well. I enjoy communicating with others in this game. To me that is where the FUN is. Running my buttocks off through a mission/quest just to DO IT is not what I look forward too.

"The Journey is ALL...the End is nothing"

I can only see this as likely if those generated characters are restricted to a select Arena. Much like the Unranked GvG games. They can play around with builds but, not play in the "real" game.

I really miss the Elite skill trainers but otherwise, I am very pleased with the game.

This game is not in the gutter. It hasn't been THAT long released and they are still tweaking it - so give them a break. No, I'm not a fanboi, there are things about the game I don't like (the difficulty of unlocking Sups for PvP, among other things, and being forced to farm).

But it's wrong to imply this game is somehow floundering in the doldrums, just because a small but vocal minority isn't happy.

The more you complain on both this site and on TGH, I really do wonder - is there not something better out there that will float your boat? Isn't life too short to incessantly moan and complain? Surely there are other great games out there that WILL give you what you're looking for.

They have ACKNOWLEDGED in the most recent update notes that there is an issue which they are working on with tangible results to be seen next week.

Good post, FluidFox; I agree wholeheartedly. But I think you forgot Rule Number Four:

The more you give, the more they bitch.


Anet: "We'll create a game with minimal grind."

Complainer: "Lies! All lies! Sure, ninety percent of the game is smooth sailing, but then I have to manually capture elite spells! They won't give me all of them at once! And I had to look for the super-rare runes! Where's my super-rare rune button? Anet, I will eat your children for this!"


I get the feeling most people haven't played any of the other MMORPGs, where you have to craft quite literally for hours just so you can make a ****ing belt-buckle.

And it's not just a PVP thing, either; PVEers are just as bad. Sometimes, that seems to be the only thread that unites the two camps: their propensity to bitch.

PVPers whine that it's a TERRIBLE, HORRIBLE GRIND to unlock elite skills. Anet listens, and tries to make it easier on them without bastardizing their original intention of putting at least a nominal amount of effort into unlock the high end skills. The PVEers immediately counter with how Anet STABBED THEM IN THE BACK --- they just took all the fun and challenge out of skill hunting! You've ruined the game! A pox on your databanks!


Anet: Hey, do you want a free muffin?

Complainer: Sure... Oh my sweet burning Jesus is that blueberry? I can't STAND blueberry! How dare you offer me this free muffin? It's obvious you're just trying to cater to the blueberry crowd --- it's shameless, really. I hate you so much Anet.


And you know, there actually are a few things I don't like about this game. But you know what? I keep that stuff mostly to myself. Anet makes this great game, with an affordable monthly fee (can't get more affordable than zero dollars), that basically runs on any shitbox PC you can find in your average city dump... so I'm not gonna start calling for the developers’ heads because I can't press a button that gives me all skills, all runes, a sigil, 9 million gold, and actually plays the game for me so I'm rescued from the unrelenting grind of enjoying myself.


But that's just me.

Sure, they're still tweaking it. Why though? It was perfect before. I don't see how they screwed it up so badly on the 27th - or whenever they constructed the monstrousity we know today. It's not the worst game... I still wouldn't play WoW... I guess that's something to show for your efforts.

As for UAS, I fail to see how it affects anyone in any way negatively. The only way it affects PvEers is that unless they use a PvP character, they have to grind to keep up with us. Hmm... I wonder how most PvPers feel?! Ohh... And it's not like if you declare yourself a PvEer, you can never use a PvP character now is it? I can't understand how they could say their slots are full and they want to PvE, if they only get 4 slots anyway. You'd think they'd be more aggrevated about that rather than ruining the PvP side of the game for 1 more character slot? Half the players rioting against UAS just don't understand the dilema, and the rest that aren't on either side? They've stopped playing. Over half my guild is inactive - mostly the PvP lovers. And the rest of us are all grinding to unlock runes and skills which is going very slowly. I just forced myself to ascend my third character. Why should I have to do that to have fun in the part of the game I like? I don't know. I'll just shut up, seeing as the game's gone down the wrong road, and the majority of idiots... Which a lot of you may or may not be a part of ... are just complaining about any solutions to the problem. Today, standing around LA district 1, I heard like 20 people *complain* about the new SoC system. Saying it was too easy, and such. Wow... Just wow...

Sollution: Seperate PVP from PVE! no sense for a RPG base where all AN wants to do is have people sit in the arenas screaming, "team looking for 3 monks." give all the straight PVP characters everything they whine about, and leave the PVE players alone to play the RPG part of the game in peice away from all the morons. AN pushes anymore on making this game a full PVP game i can see many customers soon leaving.

"Quiet Traveler" indeed.

Seperating cooperative from competetive play is not the solution to the problem. It'll only serve to widen the gap the community currently has, where the PvE shitheads scream at the PvP dicks. While a lot of this is down to the community, it screams of sloppy development, where rather than making a uniform game with a concrete design, Arena have slipped and made a game with seemingly no clear focus. The new patches seem to be clearing up some of the mess, crafting the game towards a single vision (the original one) rather than the current cluster**** of opposing visions. Guild Wars was released too early, no doubt about that, but give the live team some time to catch up and reduce the game into a single idea honed to elaborate completion.

Yes, this is what GW should aspire too! What we really want is a fantasy world that is even more dull, turgid and repetitive than the real one we are escaping from. Kids today are spoilt. Before even being able to log-on to Guild Wars people should be forced to play 500 hours of 'Pong'. In slow motion. On a black'on'black screen. That would really help make it so only the most determined, l337 players ever get to even start the game. Remember, folks, gaming is not about fun, it's about winning! It's about living your life vicariously through your online alter-ego because in real life no-one seems very interested in talking to you.

Trust me I have over 500 hours of PONG. The kicker is that we PAID to play it while drinking our beer. Ahhh....The 70's.

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO there cowboy. This game isnt in the "gutter". I dont know where you are get this false misconception from but its 100% wrong. I think you stand alone in that room pal. Everyone knew the "unlock all skills" feature wasnt going to make it into release and if you didnt your a moron. It was just a beta feature. Its not like unlocking skills and getting runes is all that hard. I have just about every skill and rune I will need just from playing the game and not doing any farming yet, Im only at Thunderhead Keep.

Weezer... As much as I respect at least 10% of your posts. Please don't try to turn this into yet another Unlock All Skills thread. There are already about 3 of those where you can rant to your heart's content. This is not one of them.


Now it is fairly safe to say Anet has stumbled a couple of times along the way. I actually consider the Rune Trader to be an example of that. It needs to be fixed at the source. That vendor screams stop gap measure to me.


The point of this being that the game hasn't even cleared it's first six months. Plain and simple, we're the shakedown crew. We get to ride it out until they get all the kinks worked out.

I also believe that the game wasn't quite "ready" when they released it. One glaring example of this would be the 15k armors and the fact that a lot of them look exactly the same for ten times the price. They'll fix that eventually I'm sure, but it was sloppy. I think they were extremely hasty with the elite skill capture system as well. It even took the alpha testers by surprise and got almost no testing and feedback before release. Skills like Battle Rage and quite a few others were nearly impossible to capture. Why? Because the system hadn't been balanced and tested enough to reveal those flaws. That has more or less been taken care of now though. They are adressing the issues. They just have a lot of things to cross off the list. We are the shakedown crew. If anybody wants to jump ship feel free to do so. I plan to stick it out. No online game is perfect from day one. At least Anet has the tools at their disposal to make the game evolve at more than a snail's pace.

And quite frankly, I'm glad I've been able to play it even if it isn't "perfect" yet. I would have been much more upset if they had decided to push the date back 3 months so they could dot their I's and cross their T's.

WAA WAA WAA. We already can assume that some changes will be made soon (there are a ton complaints about the SoC system). We already know the game is in the middle of some big plans. We already know they're working on it.

"OMFG THEY MADE RUNES EASIER TO PRICE!!!!! OH NOES!!!! I'M GOING TO GO QUIT AND COMPLAIN ON THE FORUM BEFORE I EVEN WAIT A WEEK TO SEE how the game/economy begins to work!! "

They're making changes for the better but are accidentally going overboard in some places; I think we can all agree that we want the old SoC system back, and it will probably be changed. A majority of the stuff they DO DO turns out great though; it's just a few specific things that are a bit unfair that they messed up on. I'm totoally for the new Rune trader system, but I personally think galrath should be toned down to like 2k exp and the soc system should go back (imO).

Past level 20, it takes almost 21,000 experience to get a skill point. That's an obscene amount of work to be put into getting one skill. One skill out of the 200+ available. I'm not for Unlock All Skills, but the entire skill-gaining system is anything but fun, and needs a drastic overhaul. Now, if you didn't have to change professions to capture skills or grab skills from trainers (you just couldn't use them afterwards)... and if skill points were done away with entirely...

Hahahaha!

No.