Resolved freezing issues... but no conclusive reason (sorry) - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

tuskenraid

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2005

SoCal

09 Jun 2005 at 20:31 - 1

Well, my machine was one of the ones suffering from the 5-10 minute crash syndrome that began the day ArenaNet made their last patch update (not today's). As of this morning all seems to be well, but what a trip it was to get stabilized. I thought it would help the community if I posted the steps I took, although, as you'll see, it could have been a few different things that fixed the problem. First my specs:

AMD Athlon XP 2800
ASUS A7n8x-X nForce2 MOBO
512 MB PC3200
Radeon 9800 Pro 128 (using Catalyst 4.10)
200GB Maxtor IDE HD 7200RPM
80GB (Backup) Western Digital IDE HD 7200RPM
350W Sparkle PSU

I tried the driver update to Catalyst 5.5. No improvement.

Rolled back to 4.11. Worked for half a day, then broke again.

Lowered resolution of game from 1280x1024 to 1024x768. No improvement.

Updated my nForce drivers to most current. Now none of games worked, but at 2D applications were fine.

Replaced PSU with an Enermax 420W PSU with dual 12V rails. Gave the guts of my machine a thorough dusting. No improvement, though machine got a little cooler and quieter

Ran the Driver Cleaner app and reinstalled with OMEGA 5.4 Catalyst and most current nForce drivers. No improvement, no game working.

Did a complete reinstall of Windows XP. Updated security patches, installed Antivirus program, installed (IMPORTANT I THINK) OMEGA 5.4 Catalyst, OLD nForce drivers (forgot which, the ones that came with mobo). Installed GW. Been running strong ever since.

Now, here's some helpful info, since I realize that any one of those final changes could have done it. I received an email from ATI today that stated that the fix to my problem (if I was using CAT 5.5) was to apply the CAT 5.6 patch that is coming on June 17. The wording of the email alluded to the idea that the most current drivers were causing problems on a lot of machines and CAT 5.6 is their response to it.

However, ArenaNet also released patches today, which is when I completed my reinstall, and listed in their updates is "rare crashing problems fixed".
So, could have been drivers, could have been XP needing to be cleaned up, could have been ArenaNet. I know this isn't a conclusive answer, but I am up and running, haven't crashed yet (4 hours running) and at least I can play again.

FYI

Dirkiess

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

Uk, England.

E/Mo

09 Jun 2005 at 20:43 - 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by tuskenraid

Well, my machine was one of the ones suffering from the 5-10 minute crash syndrome that began the day ArenaNet made their last patch update (not today's). As of this morning all seems to be well, but what a hell of trip it was to get stabilized. I thought it would help the community if I posted the steps I took, although, as you'll see, it could have been a few different things that fixed the problem. First my specs:

AMD Athlon XP 2800
ASUS A7n8x-X nForce2 MOBO
512 MB PC3200
Radeon 9800 Pro 128 (using Catalyst 4.10)
200GB Maxtor IDE HD 7200RPM
80GB (Backup) Western Digital IDE HD 7200RPM
350W Sparkle PSU

I tried the driver update to Catalyst 5.5. No improvement.

Rolled back to 4.11. Worked for half a day, then broke again.

Lowered resolution of game from 1280x1024 to 1024x768. No improvement.

Updated my nForce drivers to most current. Now none of games worked, but at 2D applications were fine.

Replaced PSU with an Enermax 420W PSU with dual 12V rails. Gave the guts of my machine a thorough dusting. No improvement, though machine got a little cooler and quieter

Ran the Driver Cleaner app and reinstalled with OMEGA 5.4 Catalyst and most current nForce drivers. No improvement, no game working.

Did a complete reinstall of Windows XP. Updated security patches, installed Antivirus program, installed (IMPORTANT I THINK) OMEGA 5.4 Catalyst, OLD nForce drivers (forgot which, the ones that came with mobo). Installed GW. Been running strong ever since.

Now, here's some helpful info, since I realize that any one of those final changes could have done it. I received an email from ATI today that stated that the fix to my problem (if I was using CAT 5.5) was to apply the CAT 5.6 patch that is coming on June 17. The wording of the email alluded to the idea that the most current drivers were causing problems on a lot of machines and CAT 5.6 is their response to it.

However, ArenaNet also released patches today, which is when I completed my reinstall, and listed in their updates is "rare crashing problems fixed". Rare my ass... but whatever

. (DON'T FLAME ME FOR THAT LAST STATEMENT!)

So, could have been drivers, could have been XP needing to be cleaned up, could have been ArenaNet. I know this isn't a conclusive answer, but I am up and running, haven't crashed yet (4 hours running) and at least I can play again.

FYI

Sounds really good that you are up and running and look forward to seeing how you go as I'm sure others will too.

Like you say, it could have been a number of issues.

Looking at what you have done, I would like to point others to the Roll Back of NVidia drivers especially if running NForce 2 boards, as it appears there are a lot of these with those types of problems.

Whether the Omega Drivers actually make an impact, I'm not so sure, as you said, you had already tried those and it made no difference.

I'm thinking that maybe the NVidia drivers and the latest update may well have done something.

Would be interesting to see if others out there with similar problems, get anything with a roll back of NVidia drivers. As reported in another THread, there are some issues with NForce 2, and I must admit I don't think it's an overly stable platform, especially on some of the earlier NForce 2 boards.

Anyway, it;s great we have another GW player up and running, so here is to more people getting there machines working soon.

tuskenraid

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2005

SoCal

09 Jun 2005 at 20:54 - 3

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkiess

Sounds really good that you are up and running and look forward to seeing how you go as I'm sure others will too.

Like you say, it could have been a number of issues.

Looking at what you have done, I would like to point others to the Roll Back of NVidia drivers especially if running NForce 2 boards, as it appears there are a lot of these with those types of problems.

Whether the Omega Drivers actually make an impact, I'm not so sure, as you said, you had already tried those and it made no difference.

I'm thinking that maybe the NVidia drivers and the latest update may well have done something.

Would be interesting to see if others out there with similar problems, get anything with a roll back of NVidia drivers. As reported in another THread, there are some issues with NForce 2, and I must admit I don't think it's an overly stable platform, especially on some of the earlier NForce 2 boards.

Anyway, it;s great we have another GW player up and running, so here is to more people getting there machines working soon.

Yeah, the rollback issue is a little iffy to me too. I'm not clear on whether it was combination of driver updates or prior (pre GW) driver changes that were made with out Driver Clearner or what. But, currently I am running Cat 5.4 with no problems, even though others claimed those drivers didn't work for them. I have not updated my nForce drivers beyond initial install and a fresh install of GW has certainly helped.

I know a lot of people are put-off by the idea of an XP reinstall, but it really only took about an hour and the plus is now I can enjoy a great game with my friends and spend less time here

I would just like to clear up that the problem never was the PSU, overheating, or the video card (I don't consider the drivers to a defect of the card). Granted my new PSU certainly isn't hurting my system, it was not the problem as many asserted.

akazukin cha cha

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2005

Buffalo, NY

Alone I will prevail [solo]

09 Jun 2005 at 22:44 - 4

ok, I have the 9700 all-in-wonder.

I reinstalled drivers, rolled back, cleaned my drivers, reinstalled windows xp and reinstalled the game several times to several different drives.

Still it freezes.

Any other conclusive data? Sometimes I get a VPU error, saying my graphics accelorator stopped working with drivers, or sumthin...

Im just so pissed at the fact it doesn't work that I cant even explain stuff properly..-_- me and a few of my friends bought it at the same time to play at the same time, now they progress as I sit...

cha cha

tuskenraid

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2005

SoCal

10 Jun 2005 at 00:29 - 5

Quote:

Originally Posted by akazukin cha cha

ok, I have the 9700 all-in-wonder.

I reinstalled drivers, rolled back, cleaned my drivers, reinstalled windows xp and reinstalled the game several times to several different drives.

Still it freezes.

Any other conclusive data? Sometimes I get a VPU error, saying my graphics accelorator stopped working with drivers, or sumthin...

Im just so pissed at the fact it doesn't work that I cant even explain stuff properly..-_- me and a few of my friends bought it at the same time to play at the same time, now they progress as I sit...

cha cha

1) I totally understand your frustration. I'm playing catch up, trying to get to ascension, while my Guild mates are deep in the real game.

2) what version of the drivers are you using?

3) do any of your other games work?

4) is it possible that your card may be defective?

The reason I ask those questions, is because it all matters. At one point none of my games worked. Also, I never got any VPU errors, just the freezing. I would strongly suggest the Omega drivers. ATI's drivers usually installed extra junk that I didn't need and inadvertently caused other problems. Too, make sure that you don't use the most current ATI driver, as even ATI has admitted (half-heartedly) that it's buggy. Go for version 5.4.

Hope things work out for you. It sucks, I know.

akazukin cha cha

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2005

Buffalo, NY

Alone I will prevail [solo]

10 Jun 2005 at 15:34 - 6

I tried cleaning the drivers, then installed Cat 5.4, 5.5 and 5.6....none work

Card defective? No, I play many other games and use it for Vid cap and all that jazz.

So I'm back to 5.6.

What are "omega drivers"?

this blows -_-

Lol and their "support" told me AFTER i explained that I had 2 monitors running a dual desktop, that "they noticed" i had a secondary display Nvida driver, and I should disable it, even though, I...1) stated I had disabled it just to see, even though it doesnt affect my single window games 2) After I stated it was only running my ati card at the time of the questions i had for them.

Thwy cant even read my full email, how am I to get help? ATI never even responded.

cha cha

Dirkiess

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

Uk, England.

E/Mo

10 Jun 2005 at 15:49 - 7

Quote:

Originally Posted by akazukin cha cha

ok, I have the 9700 all-in-wonder.

I reinstalled drivers, rolled back, cleaned my drivers, reinstalled windows xp and reinstalled the game several times to several different drives.

Still it freezes.

Any other conclusive data? Sometimes I get a VPU error, saying my graphics accelorator stopped working with drivers, or sumthin...

Im just so pissed at the fact it doesn't work that I cant even explain stuff properly..-_- me and a few of my friends bought it at the same time to play at the same time, now they progress as I sit...

cha cha

A couple of things to try if you haven't already.

In the BIOS, set all your options to default or the lowest options possible that still let the PC run. i.e. Setting AGP Fast Write to Disabled etc. Do this with all the settings you can so that the machine still boots into windows.

The reason I say this, my friend had many VPU errors with a 9800pro, and I had to try all this first to see if it resolved the issues.

It resolved it most of the time, and this was the bad part.

I had to get it replaced in the end as it was happening too many times, and I had the most basic system i could. Just XP with all updates and the required drivers. All the ones that came with the system and card.

If none of the BIOS settings make a difference, then you may well have a faulty card, as the new 9800pro i got has not given this problem since and I left the machine as it was since replacing it.

With regards to the drivers. Roll back to ATI Cat 4.11. These I think are some of the most stable ATI drivers they have for 9xxx series cards. I still think Cat 5 is more beneficial to newer cards. They may work with older cards, but the updates they do are far more common for the newer cards, and i think this may be breaking something that should work fine on the older cards.

This is all speculation, but it is worth a try.

Also, with the Driver Cleaner, you are making sure you run this between the uninstall and reinstall of the drivers? You aren't doing it after the reinstall?

1 last thing. What Mobo do you have?

akazukin cha cha

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2005

Buffalo, NY

Alone I will prevail [solo]

11 Jun 2005 at 02:16 - 8

Yes they also just told me to disable fastdraw AND slow the agp write to 4x. This was weird, I thought the problem fixed at first, but low and behold it just TOOK LONGER as in 10-15 mins to freeze in the same way -_-

My mobo- Asus p4s800D-E...why would it matter?

I cant believe my card is faulty, I mean, I play so many games that demmand more and render so much video edit stuff.

where can I get Cat 4.11? I dont see it listed. Also the way I install drivers is to install it, then go into safe mode and clean the old ones out. Is there a better way?

thx for the tips guys, keep em comin ;_;

cha cha

Dirkiess

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

Uk, England.

E/Mo

11 Jun 2005 at 11:03 - 9

Quote:

Originally Posted by akazukin cha cha

My mobo- Asus p4s800D-E...why would it matter?

where can I get Cat 4.11? I dont see it listed. Also the way I install drivers is to install it, then go into safe mode and clean the old ones out. Is there a better way?

For the Cat 4.11 drivers and Driver Cleaner program, go to www.guru3d.com and locate the required program and drivers there.

With regards to the mobo, this isn't definite, but there appear to be more of one kind of mobo maker showing up than others. This may be nothing and could just be a higher use of this manufacturers mobo's.
The other reason, without looking it up, i don't know if it's NForce 2 or not, if it is NF2, and you have the NVidia SW IDE DRiver installed, uninstall it and try using the Windows IDE driver instead. It has been reported in another thread, that there is issues with this driver on NForce 2 boards. Only going by the Tech guy there, as I have not read anything about this. Something to try and I will be trying it on my friends PC when I next get at it.

One last thing, check out the last few entries i made in this thread.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=17277

Regarding GW.Tmp files. Try this option out too. One guy found after a file cleanup on his hard drive, this was removed and game has run fine ever since.

Bezerker

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2005

11 Jun 2005 at 14:10 - 10

Quote:

Originally Posted by akazukin cha cha

I tried cleaning the drivers, then installed Cat 5.4, 5.5 and 5.6....none work

Card defective? No, I play many other games and use it for Vid cap and all that jazz.

So I'm back to 5.6.

What are "omega drivers"?

this blows -_-

Lol and their "support" told me AFTER i explained that I had 2 monitors running a dual desktop, that "they noticed" i had a secondary display Nvida driver, and I should disable it, even though, I...1) stated I had disabled it just to see, even though it doesnt affect my single window games 2) After I stated it was only running my ati card at the time of the questions i had for them.

Thwy cant even read my full email, how am I to get help? ATI never even responded.

cha cha

Dont ever go for the omega drives, they are a piece of crap. the VPU error could be that your card is overheating, or a driver fault.

If you card is overheating it could be its overclocked, i would strongly suggest to reset it to default settings. If its not overclocked, get your card out of your computer, check if the cooler works, and is seeted firmly on the card. Also if theres alot of dust in the cooler fan, clean it up (same goes for your PC, dust is a killer)

If its a driver fault (which i doubt since you installed various drivers) then only ATI can help. :/

akazukin cha cha

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2005

Buffalo, NY

Alone I will prevail [solo]

11 Jun 2005 at 19:48 - 11

It finally worked...

Well the heat issues seemed to solve it. I lowered my CPU threshhold to 70c and MB threshhold to 70c, then opened up the side of my tower and let a giant fan blow into it.

Then the game worked....

o_0

Thanks for all the help!

cha cha