Are rangers really good for PVP?

Along with what arnansnow said...

I want to debate with people who have valid and well thought out ideas and such.

Not someone who's vocabulary consists of "they suck just because I don't know how to play them" or someone too lazy to show a higher level of maturity.

Yes I understand that there's a low level of education on the internet, but I choose to associate myself with those that possess one on par with me.

The post of yours that I quoted is what I'm looking for

No. Lately I just hear about people getting owned by 5 air elementalists and 3 monks.

I use a ranger/mesmer in PvP and, I believe, it is quite a useful character.

Skills I use:
Hunters Shot
Lightning Reflexes
Conjure Phantasm
Whirling Defense
Sig of Resurrect
Apply Poison
Frozen Soil
Charm Animal - Lev 20 bear

I find this gives me a good mix of defensive and offensive skills and a pet that can take a lot of damage. I can use frozen soil to prevent resurrects as well which helps.
I generally target multiple monks, poisoning each and then concentrate on one with lightning reflexes and conjure phantasm to drop him.

I find a ranger is a great support character but you cannot go 1 on 1 against other characters easily.

Whats your point? Who told you you need the pet to stay alive in PVP?

*The pet does not need protection in PVP.*

If someone decides to attack the pet, they're not attacking you, if they attack you, your pet attacks them. In either situation you're coming out on top. If you need clarification, read my reply above.

PVE is a different story.

If your pet dies you have your skills disabled for 8 seconds (I heard some people say its 4 seconds since the last patch, but no confirmation on that yet). 8 seconds without skills is a burden to your team. You can bet experienced players will take advantage of that.

Hunter's Shot, Pin Down, Spike Trap. What has that? Oh right, Rangers. There is no need for a pet.

Now it's time for math. 8 Skill Slots - 1 Skill Slot = 7 Skill Slots. 8 Team members + 1 Monk with a pet - 1 Pet = Disabled Monk skills = 8 Dead team members.

The only class that can really use pets without being screwed over is Rangers, and they can do anything their pet can anyway.

You Are STOOPID

Hahahhaa word. Its not that they're bad... well they are... but there are so many other skills that are so much more useful. Don't forget that once your pet dies you cant use any of your other skills for as long as it takes to kill you. Want to bring healing for your pet? Theres another spot wasted that you could have a trap or arrow / effect skill. Want to make your pet useful? (pet attacks). There are more skill spots taken up that once again could be outdone by basically any other skill. Its just a poor choice. More of a choice for someone who likes the look and idea of having a pet.

does it change from PvE to PvP....or do you just know nothing about the game, yet felt the need to comment regardless?

Last I checked all your skills are disabled for 8 seconds when your pet dies. 8 seconds is enough to kill someone who can't do jack. Although I've heard people say its 4 seconds since the last patch, so that is a bit better, but it still doesn't change the fact that anything your pet can do you can do better by using non pet skills.

Alright, stop commenting unless you have actually used a pet build. Or actually read what I wrote above.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...9&postcount=29

In almost every PVP battle I've been in my pet doesn't die because people totally ignore it and wonder why their skills are always disabled and are bleeding. In the PVP battles where my pet does die, the skills disabled has never been a burden on me or my team and its always been worth it because, like I said before, if they're attacking my pet, they're not attacking me or my team mates and that gives us a great advantage than any small time disable.

You're not experienced with pets, so all of your comments and opinions on pets are worthless, sorry, but if you backed up for a second and looked at pets and played them then you would know. It's the same noobish crap as "Necro primary sucks because soul reaping is useless." Whats wrong with that comment? Lets see, the person is completely ignorant to how the game works and is CONDEMNING an entire class because of one attribute but doesn't realize the advantages of a primary build with runes.

You're basically condemning a pet because of one side effect (which if you would have read anything of what I wrote above doesn't matter). YET you've completely ignored it's strengths AND you have NO EXPERIENCE using pets to even know what they can do for you.

This goes for everyone, not just Eclair, stop making your noobish comments on pets in this thread. Read this:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...9&postcount=29
And this:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=20579

Take a look at this:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/skill.php

Notice every pet attack is better than than a non-pet ranger attack. I don't have to point it out cause it's obvious, less cool down, less mana, and more damage and the attacks are dead on especially using call of haste. I'm not saying you should throw away your ranger skills, but you should know what you're talking about before saying something untrue.

But thats not even the point, think about stacking them, do you realize how powerful carrying Distracting Shot AND Disrupting Lunge is. Did everyone skip over Ferocious Strike?

Look, you got a right to your own opinion, but stop spewing out uninformed ignorant noobish crap. You guys started off like that so I tried to explain the advantages of pets, BUT you guys kept getting more ignorant and replies even more noobish. So sorry if I come off mean, but you people don't read, research anything, or have even tried what you're criticizing.

You go to a doctor cause they know medicine, don't try to preach medicine when you're not a doctor. Ask the people that have used pets or use them your self before you say they suck. And if you have used them and say they suck, you most likely did something wrong.

let me correct you: any noob with a pet in PVP sucks hard. this is why people are so reluctant to allow rangers in PVP groups, its because there are MANY people who dont know how to use them

You can't count on the oppositions stupidity to validate your point. Pets are going to die more easily than a player controller unit. You cant control the way a pet moves. So if you think your pet ranger is better than a player controller ranger.. well that IS your own opinion but what are rangers for in PvP? A good majority of their role is to interrupt the casters and any threats on the opposition side. Yes there are pet interrupts but you're not going to be able to get them off on different players spread throughout the battlefield in time. So yeah, chase away at that monk or elementalist with your pet but the response switch time is slow which, in a heated battle, means the world. And if your pet does die, you've just been lucky that your team has been supporting you and you dont need your skills. We can read the stats of the pet attacks on the website, you don't need to point these out. The fact is that stats mean very little when it comes to what you sacrifice.

It's a losing battle. Everyone on the internet is expert on things they haven't tried doing

Rangers In PvP.

Yes they can be fantastic in some instances, but usually only in a planned function. They don't glide in as seamless as the Warrio/Monk or Monk in PUGS.


Zeee Pets - The Ranger/Mesmer

It is very hard to justify a pet in PvP. After the upgrades to the pets I started looking into it just to rule out the option.

All pets are the same in damage output and hitpoints, except the spider, which has a slightly higher critical and therefore average dps.

1) The dps of your pet not counting your attack skills are proven to be 10.6 dps.

2) The dps with a pet with Call of Haste is roughly 14.3 dps.

3) Bleeding 6 dps

4) Poison 8 dps (Somebody mentioned they used posion arrows or apply poison)


So not counting your bow attack, you possible with Call of Haste and Bleeding + Poison end up at:
28 DPS

Is that bad ? If your target is not healing itself, it will die roughly after 18 seconds - not counting bow attacks.

Now add in you Bow attacks on a 60 AL, probably end up at 15 dps, since you can only have one prep and one attack, since pet is taking a lot of slots.

So total is about:

43 DPS

Well if you change targets after you have achieved bleeding, cripple, posion, then you could be helpful in straining the monks, but you definetly are not killing somebody. Monks can take care of this slow damage output...


If your team build is about draining the other team down with conditions, sure bleeding, cripple, poison(you) and rapidly swithing targets your pet will have some value.



Maybe if you add Fragility to your build or backfire, maybe Tigers Fury, Barrage, Zealous bowstring ?

I am not saying a pet in PvP is bad , it sure can have some advantages, especially cripple as a snare, but it does take up a lot of slots.

A ranger can serve a lot of other purposes, a warrior hits on avarage 25 dps or more (if buffed) on target before his attacks. An Elementalist can spike enormous damage in a few seconds as well.

I think your stuff will work in a team build, but in a PUG - you are doomed.


Ratatass

Provoko: been away from the thread for a while, but I use a W/R simply for the better armor when I need to go to melee combat - it keeps me alive longer.

For all those others who think pets are useless - you really don't know how to play an RPG, then do you? Pets come in handy if for nothing else, then to create disruption amonst the enemy and force their healers to do more work as there are more characters doing damage to their party than just the four PC's you go in with.

Plus, pet AI is only going to get better as Guild Wars matures. FYI, I have never been in a party that has lost a PvP battle with three or four pets included. I haven't done much PvPing, but I would say that has been pretty good. The two groups I was with ended up just having to leave the game because we had been playing so long, we had to get to "real world" business.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
http://www.realmillenniumgroup.com/guild.html
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

they are quite useful as most people in your group are probably a Warrior anyway

Never!

Id love to fight you as you sound like the most incompitent person on the planet. I mean i don't use pets as i specilise in long range damage and maiming but i have friends with another power in the pet to take down any no0b like you. 1-3 dmg where did you fight that, the 'Ascalon Arena'?

Rangers and very good in PvP when played well. If played badly they are the worst class in the game. Same with Mesmers.

rangers are amazing in pvp. Poisin arrow, or ignite arrow, or any status preperation, pin down, distracting shot, concussion shot. they absolutely destroy monks if they're good at it. man, pair a good rangers with a good mesmer (better to be primary of each) and casters stand no chance! Actually, neither do warriors! Pin down/ fragility/ set that guy on fire and keep him crippled and hes DEAD.

Pet=Another target plain and simple
So why not?

Although there are builds that can use pets well, i'd take the extra skill or two over the pet in most situations for pvp. Fragility and incendiary arrows is my personal favorite.

In PvP, whenever I am going against rangers with pets, I just ignore the pet and focus on the players. I may not have ever gone against a good beastmaster (as I am only in Maguuma), I find pets mostly useless. (Although when I had a pet in Ascalon Arena, it actually killed a guy after I died getting him down to 3% life ) I would rather have another skill or two, then have a pet, that when it dies, you lose your skills for a while, making you a sitting duck.

If you're a beastmaster you can possibly have a pet with 25% faster attack rate then you, and it can pack a punch. If you aren't you have a walking skill disabler that annoys people and adds to the ranger "support" stereotype. I myself kill pets for the 8 seconds of enemy rangers not being able to spam. I would agree that rangers can do damage, but the essence of most ranger spike builds is time -time to get buffs up, regen life, and summon a few spirits. If you give certain rangers time, they'll become quite powerful.

Well, asking if ranger is good is same as asking if mesmer is great.
You don't know how casters feels under each sec interrupts.

then explain how come a group of 8 pet rangers dominated HoH
for several hours strait... Because YOU haven't figured out how to
use them, dosent make them useless and the ranger an idiot.

Rangers...I think they aren't that great in PvP since there are only 4 other players. In GvG on the other hand ranger can take a HUGE chunk of any classes life or kill them. A full team of 8 rangers all they have to do is set traps all in one area. Major Ownage right there.

Just as an FYI, pets had their armor level increased to 80 (at level 20) in a relatively recent update. Makes them a bit harder to cut down, anyway. Same update increased their movement speed by 20% to compensate for the less than stellar AI.

Probably doesn't affect their ability to own in combat all that much, but I noticed some comments about their AL only being 60.

*And I know this is a pretty old thread, but Im skimming through some old stuff. *

Throw Dirt + Whirling Defense + Dryders Defense = Ranger Tank

1) Rangers when used right can do some incredible spike dmg.
2) Pets have its uses....look at the W/R IWAY build thats popular now.

The thing that is not the latest FotM is R/W IWAY builds...thats the one that held the HoH for a considerable amount of time.

ON TOPIC:
Rangers are good. The more the merrier. Very versatile class.

OFF TOPIC:
Notice how a majority of people who say Rangers suck, and even pets, are people who primarily play Warriors. "I can take them 1 v 1". Warriors.

Pets do great with Beastmastery investment, just like how anything else works, and serve just as effectively as any other skill. They are as valid a choice as any other. They are deadly with the right mix of skills, as previous posters have already explained. They do NOT make you equal in power to 2 of any other allies. 1.5 at best. If a pet COULD take down any expert warrior out there 1 v 1, pets would soon be nerfed.