Is it me or is this a REALLY bad idea?
I mean, observer mode in some games is fine, when there isn't a competition like HoH to be held and such, but as it is, you could go into observer, watch the currently winning group and go in there with a strategy to take them out. Heck, you could have an extra guild member or two watching other matches you were in. How nice would it be to know that Yellow is running a necro with rend and two monks have remove hex, that they have an illusionary warrior, and that they have two air spikers... before even playing them? With Ventrilo/TS and such it is quite possible.
Even in games like CS and DoD they limit the observer mode for the most part by having a minimum 60 second delay; even that isn't enough for GW though. After all, once into HoH you don't have the option of changing your build, but the teams coming up against you do; with an observer or two they could very quickly swap builds around, or even if that's not an issue, they'll at least know who to target and such, and they'll know who is carrying the rez, the rend, the hex removal, what nature rituals you have and so on. 60 seconds delay in CS or DoD is plenty, as seldom is a given position held for that length of time, and if it is you don't gain much insight that can't be gained by simply observing - knowing ahead of time that there is a sniper or an MG somewhere can be helpful, knowing a minute later is likely to be pointless, but with the strategies involved in GW I am not sure about how it would work.
My only thoughts are that you could perhaps observe GvG with a substantial delay, or observe arenas, but that HoH is simply not feasible for observer mode.
Observer mode
Epinephrine
Corwin_Andros
I would imagin that they aren't going to let you look at the specific builds of the teams playing when you are observing. You might have some kind of idea of what they are using if you know just what to look for, but that'd be about it.
I would imagine it might be a bit like what you can do once you are dead and can follow your team mates around while waiting to be rezzed.
And will only be able to read the all chat.. no team or guild chat unless you are in a playing guild of course
I would imagine it might be a bit like what you can do once you are dead and can follow your team mates around while waiting to be rezzed.
And will only be able to read the all chat.. no team or guild chat unless you are in a playing guild of course
Caco-Cola
Anyone wanna clue me in as to what ya'll are talking about?
IxChel
They are adding an 'observer' feature in the future, where you can 'watch' the combat. I think of this in a way similar to what happens when you are dead -- you can click on other team-mates and see things from their perspective. I'd suggest to the developers that Observer mode is great, as long as it isn't real-time; a 10 second delay should be sufficient to make sure that cheating doesn't happen.
Epinephrine
Well, if they don't go with a first person (as in, see what the player would see) mode it might work, it'd still give an awful lot of insight into what was going on. I guess if done correctly it could work, I'm just worried about how it will affect strategising if your builds are observable before combat starts. Well, maybe I shouldn't worry too much.
Galatea
Caco-Cola:
The devs are working on a feature called Observer Mode, which most likely will allow us to view others' GvG, HoH, Arena, etc.. matches.
The devs are working on a feature called Observer Mode, which most likely will allow us to view others' GvG, HoH, Arena, etc.. matches.
ElevenBravo
I like the idea. Its going to lead to 2 things.
#1 More copied builds
#2 More counter builds
#1 More copied builds
#2 More counter builds
Algren Cole
this game doesn't strike me as a game where ghosting would work anyway. Think about how they do it in Counter Strike...all you do is give locations. It's irrelevant what weapon is being used. Attempting to ghost this game in teamspeak or ventrilo isn't going to work regardless. it won't give you an upper hand.
Caco-Cola
I really can't think of a way that this would affect anything.
I mean sure someone could go "ok green just died" but well, press O and there ya go.
Or they could say "ok blue and orange are fighting"....again press O.
They could go further and say 'aight orange has 3 monks'...well press tab about 9 times and you'll see that for yourself, takes like 2 seconds.
Or they could say "aight tourqoise has a necro/ranger who interrupts stuff....great, but it's too late to do anything about that now, the builds have been chosen.
I don't see how this would affect anything.
Edit: Btw when's this thing going live? I love watching others fight more than fighting myself.
I mean sure someone could go "ok green just died" but well, press O and there ya go.
Or they could say "ok blue and orange are fighting"....again press O.
They could go further and say 'aight orange has 3 monks'...well press tab about 9 times and you'll see that for yourself, takes like 2 seconds.
Or they could say "aight tourqoise has a necro/ranger who interrupts stuff....great, but it's too late to do anything about that now, the builds have been chosen.
I don't see how this would affect anything.
Edit: Btw when's this thing going live? I love watching others fight more than fighting myself.
Perishiko ReLLiK
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Originally Posted by Caco-Cola
I really can't think of a way that this would affect anything.
I mean sure someone could go "ok green just died" but well, press O and there ya go. Or they could say "ok blue and orange are fighting"....again press O. They could go further and say 'aight orange has 3 monks'...well press tab about 9 times and you'll see that for yourself, takes like 2 seconds. Or they could say "aight tourqoise has a necro/ranger who interrupts stuff....great, but it's too late to do anything about that now, the builds have been chosen. I don't see how this would affect anything. Edit: Btw when's this thing going live? I love watching others fight more than fighting myself. |
And i agree, i can't wait till this goes live... i would really enjoy this.. and personaly i think it would add some stradegy besides the, "We want air ele"... people will finaly realize that a pure air ele team isnt winning hoh... it's actually a stradegizing team in hoh almost all the times.
Red Locust
Haha, I wonder how long before we see the necro commit suicide, observe the enemy team and report to your team via vent. Necros will have a whole new reason to be included in a team...espionage 
Dreamsmith
People who want to win the Hall of Heroes but don't want anyone to see it should not be taken any more seriously than a football team that demands the superbowl not be televised because other teams might see their strategy.
Seeing other teams play is part of the game for any serious competitive activity. If you don't want that, don't participate in any real competitions.
A lack of an observer mode is fine for matches that aren't part of a competition, but any serious competition should be conducted in public view.
There's no good reason why Guild Wars players should get some sort of special exemption from the full weight of real, true, serious competition. True competitors will have their actions scrutinized. Can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen...
Seeing other teams play is part of the game for any serious competitive activity. If you don't want that, don't participate in any real competitions.
A lack of an observer mode is fine for matches that aren't part of a competition, but any serious competition should be conducted in public view.
There's no good reason why Guild Wars players should get some sort of special exemption from the full weight of real, true, serious competition. True competitors will have their actions scrutinized. Can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen...
Firax
Anet said, in beta, (awhile back) that if they included an observer mode it would have a built in delay (the figure then was 2-3 minutes) to prevent abuse by people with an out of game method of communication.
~Firax
~Firax
Mountain Man
Sure, you can use observer mode to scout other teams, but everybody will have the same advantage, so I don't see the problem.
ManadartheHealer
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Originally Posted by Firax
Anet said, in beta, (awhile back) that if they included an observer mode it would have a built in delay (the figure then was 2-3 minutes) to prevent abuse by people with an out of game method of communication.
~Firax |
dansamy
An observer on Teamspeak observing your match and relaying information would be an abuse.
ManadartheHealer
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Originally Posted by dansamy
An observer on Teamspeak observing your match and relaying information would be an abuse.
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CtrlAltDel
i think you should have it, but it should be a follow behind camera, or a free floating camera that doesnt show you what skills everyone has equipped, but obviously shows their anims
dont see how this would be a bad thing
dont see how this would be a bad thing
Ardus Shadowmane
I also like this idea. At the moment I'm PvE, but I would love to watch some PvP and see how it's done. Give me the kick in the butt I'll need to go PvP myself. Plus to hear a huge crowd chanting my name....*drifts into daydreamland*
dansamy
I like the Observer idea simply because I have always loved watching PvP.
Traylorre
Cripes there are hardcore people out there even more hardcore than any of us... heck we pay the pretty price for +10hp from a major to superior rune
Any way for something to be exploited... will be.... and even though both sides have the same option to abuse it (I'm thinking vent/TS are the prime ways)... doesn't mean it should be allowed!
It's wonderful that we can be allowed to watch other teams duel it out (I hope their servers will be able to handle the demand)...
... but make sure theres a -long- delay so that people won't bother exploiting it (nothing to be gained)
This seems pretty plain to see and anyone calling for a non-lengthly delay is most probably someone frothing at the idea of abusing it -- besides... so -what- if theres a long delay?
Any way for something to be exploited... will be.... and even though both sides have the same option to abuse it (I'm thinking vent/TS are the prime ways)... doesn't mean it should be allowed!
It's wonderful that we can be allowed to watch other teams duel it out (I hope their servers will be able to handle the demand)...
... but make sure theres a -long- delay so that people won't bother exploiting it (nothing to be gained)
This seems pretty plain to see and anyone calling for a non-lengthly delay is most probably someone frothing at the idea of abusing it -- besides... so -what- if theres a long delay?
Akshara
I've been wishing there was some kind of way to watch since release day, as it is often more effective to learn by demonstration than by doing. I read about all of these awesome strategies and builds, but it would be nice to see them firsthand and get an idea of what's really going on, rather than just being on the receiving end of them during the chaos of battle.
It's not gonna be any different than watching a sporting event. Sure some will take away new ideas, or come up with new counter strategies, kinda like football coaches do from watching games. But in the end it will only help to improve the entire community's skill overall, which will make the gaming itself more competitive and enjoyable.
For many of us, it wasn't easy to jump into PvP right away. And a lot of players have spent all their time in PvE building up characters and unlocking things. The learning curve for being an effective CTF player is pretty steep, and being able to drop in and watch matches every so often can help those who are far behind and don't have a lot of time to play.
One of my favorite features of online FPS games is Spectator Mode, cause I can just log on and watch for awhile. It's pretty much how I learned the more subtle aspects of multiplayer CTF in the first place. I think this will be a good thing for the PvP community, and a lot of fun.
In the end we all want PvP to be more competitive, since it creates a better gaming experience for us all. It's not just about winning, it's also about the challenge itself.
It's not gonna be any different than watching a sporting event. Sure some will take away new ideas, or come up with new counter strategies, kinda like football coaches do from watching games. But in the end it will only help to improve the entire community's skill overall, which will make the gaming itself more competitive and enjoyable.
For many of us, it wasn't easy to jump into PvP right away. And a lot of players have spent all their time in PvE building up characters and unlocking things. The learning curve for being an effective CTF player is pretty steep, and being able to drop in and watch matches every so often can help those who are far behind and don't have a lot of time to play.
One of my favorite features of online FPS games is Spectator Mode, cause I can just log on and watch for awhile. It's pretty much how I learned the more subtle aspects of multiplayer CTF in the first place. I think this will be a good thing for the PvP community, and a lot of fun.
In the end we all want PvP to be more competitive, since it creates a better gaming experience for us all. It's not just about winning, it's also about the challenge itself.
Maegi
This is a no brainer to me. Arenanet simply tapes the matches like they do when they make a trailer. Rather than downloading it, they stream it to you, say 24 hours later. No way to abuse that and no point of spies or teamspeak abuse.
You'd still get to watch the teams that won or participated, but with enough delay to not matter
You'd still get to watch the teams that won or participated, but with enough delay to not matter
Corack
I think this will be great. I think observer mode will start to promote more balenced groups than a lot of the one shot wonders runing around now. ALso those groups planing on just watching HoH and brinng the counter to that groups build first you must get to HoH. Second the same team has to still have control of HoH when you get there.
Caco-Cola
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This is a no brainer to me. Arenanet simply tapes the matches like they do when they make a trailer. Rather than downloading it, they stream it to you, say 24 hours later. No way to abuse that and no point of spies or teamspeak abuse. You'd still get to watch the teams that won or participated, but with enough delay to not matter |
there's a difference between watching ti live/semi-live and watching it 24 hours after it.
ManadartheHealer
Right now, many "live" TV shows have a 10 second delay or so because of Janet Jackson and her "accident" 
Imp
It didn't stop ashlee simpson.
ManadartheHealer
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Originally Posted by Imp
It didn't stop ashlee simpson.
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Caco-Cola
I like how at the end they were like 'that's the problem with live television folks!' and then acted as if nothing wrong just happend.
Oh well, fakes and posers will always exist.
Oh well, fakes and posers will always exist.
ManadartheHealer
Your mouth is moving, but I cannot hear words 
Asplode
You guys are acting like recon is something that isn't already happening.
If you get into HoH, even if you lose, you get to see what the host team is running, and what they're using, so the next run you make you have that in mind already. You don't even need an out-of-game communication tool, since there's tells and guild chat in-game anyway.
On top of that, even if you make a counterbuild to the HoH's current host, you still have to win with it in the other scenarios against a plethora of other 8man groups anyway. I see only positive things with observer mode, even if it will be somewhat unfair in GvG combat, since it's a straight 8v8, with no test of build solidity.
It'll quicken game evolution, lead to new creative strategies and heighten overall player competance, something we all want.
If you get into HoH, even if you lose, you get to see what the host team is running, and what they're using, so the next run you make you have that in mind already. You don't even need an out-of-game communication tool, since there's tells and guild chat in-game anyway.
On top of that, even if you make a counterbuild to the HoH's current host, you still have to win with it in the other scenarios against a plethora of other 8man groups anyway. I see only positive things with observer mode, even if it will be somewhat unfair in GvG combat, since it's a straight 8v8, with no test of build solidity.
It'll quicken game evolution, lead to new creative strategies and heighten overall player competance, something we all want.
Ninna
http://www.pixelrage.com/mesmerize/fansitefriday/46/
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I'm looking forward to observer mode, and I was wondering if a replay feature would be part of that? Is there anything more you can tell us about how observer mode will work? Observer Mode and Replay are two very separate features. Once we have Observer Mode, replays will be a done deal, for pretty much anyone will be able to make one. So it's on Observer Mode that we're focusing, and here are some details of how that will work: - You will be able to observe any PvP battle – tournament or guild – in which the Top 10 guilds on the Guild Wars Ladder take part. - Any other noteworthy PvP battles such as regional or tournament championships will also be made available for observation. You can also view the battles taking place in the Hall of Heroes. - We think that someday down the road, it would be a super innovation to also make it so that you can witness any battle in which your guild is taking part. This is a highly-requested feature and we'll look at the opportunities to offer that, too. The way Observer Mode will work will be to offer a menu which you use to select the match you want to observe. One thing that surprised me is that there will be no limit on the number of people who can observe any particular match; the entire Guild Wars community could conceivably watch any individual match. When we have our first global tournament, which is coming in the not too distant future, we look forward to hosting many tens of thousands of viewers as they witness history being made. |
Beqxter
Personally, I can't wait. On GvG nights we usually have more people show up than can play, and those who volunteer to sit one out have to amuse themselves in CA for a while, or else hang around the hall and shoot the breeze with the others - it would be great to be able to watch the match, even with a time delay (although that might be wierd since we're also usually in the same TS channel listening to the match).
Also, someone made the point about it improving the PvP game as a whole because it could be a learning tool, to which I enthusiastically agree - I still consider myself a PvP newb, and would LOVE to be able to watch the top guilds do their thing from a third-person perspective (it's harder to keep track of what they're doing when you're trying to stay alive against them), so that I could learn from their strategies. As the skills get more balanced and the better guilds use balanced builds instead of gimmick builds, the trouble of copycat builds will lessen since it will be all about HOW the skills are used, not WHAT skills are used.
And if you're running a balanced build that can take all comers, the real challenge would be taking a team who built themselves especially to counter you, wouldn't it?
Also, someone made the point about it improving the PvP game as a whole because it could be a learning tool, to which I enthusiastically agree - I still consider myself a PvP newb, and would LOVE to be able to watch the top guilds do their thing from a third-person perspective (it's harder to keep track of what they're doing when you're trying to stay alive against them), so that I could learn from their strategies. As the skills get more balanced and the better guilds use balanced builds instead of gimmick builds, the trouble of copycat builds will lessen since it will be all about HOW the skills are used, not WHAT skills are used.
And if you're running a balanced build that can take all comers, the real challenge would be taking a team who built themselves especially to counter you, wouldn't it?
DarkWasp
Trying to keep your build under cover is useless in the tombs anyway, you go agaisnt so many info leakers, observer mode wouldn't hurt.
And I am really looking forward to it, it would be like watching a football game.
"GO! GO! GO! GO! GO! AWW!! MAN!"
Um, I think it should not show the rare drop though, dont want a bunch of PMs "Can I buy that?"
And I am really looking forward to it, it would be like watching a football game.
"GO! GO! GO! GO! GO! AWW!! MAN!"
Um, I think it should not show the rare drop though, dont want a bunch of PMs "Can I buy that?"
Aracos79
I'm excited about it mostly because it's the only way I'll ever see the Hall of Heroes for myself. :P
IndyCC
I actually like the idea of a live observer and allowing the so called "abuse." Lemme explain here. Every group going into tombs that has any decent shot at winning is organized enough to use vent or TS. Additionally the group has a designated leader that "calls the shots." Throw your leader in the observer mode and now you have a real strategic challenge between teams. Like the general behind the computer screen telling his men where to form up and strike. So you send in a "squad" (your team) and the "general" watchs from a distance telling the squad where to go. He effectively acts as the eyes and ears for the squad while they are in the heat of the battle. I think it would actually add a strategic element to the game. So perhaps you should view it that way rather than as an abuse.
btw not all tv has a ten second delay, only certain live tv in order to give them a chance to cut out the undesirables such as popping out mammaries or cussing. Obviously recorded tv and the like don't need it. Radio has a delay as well for the same sort of reason.
btw not all tv has a ten second delay, only certain live tv in order to give them a chance to cut out the undesirables such as popping out mammaries or cussing. Obviously recorded tv and the like don't need it. Radio has a delay as well for the same sort of reason.
Asplode
10 second? No way, make it at least 10 minutes of delay.
Makkert
There may be an option to hide your skills from observers, or not.
I find it to early to draw conclusions. Should all be visible, then I suspect that the cycle ofFotM and counters that become new FotM to speed up. That doesn't sound like a bad thing at the moment for tombs.
I find it to early to draw conclusions. Should all be visible, then I suspect that the cycle ofFotM and counters that become new FotM to speed up. That doesn't sound like a bad thing at the moment for tombs.
tafy69
30 Second delay is more than enough, I cant wait for this, would really speed up tombs imo.
Pevil Lihatuh
I've wanted this from the start.
Easy way to (attempt) to stop abuse.
1. Make it so you basically see the action, and the health bars. Could be that red team has a party health bar on the left of your screen, blues teams is on your right. Just like the normal party windows. Don't show any skills. Even if you click someone, don't show the casting bar. That way, unless its something obvious from the animation, you can't say "oh, this person is using this, then this, then this, lets go counter them!"
2. Put a delay on. If you have been in observer mode, you must NOT be in observer mode for 10 mins before you are allowed to join PvP in the arena you were watching. You can go elsewhere, but not that same arena. That gives the chance that the winning team has actually lost and so building to defeat them will be pointless. Course, this still lets you sit and observe to let you friends/guildies know what strategies to use, but coupled with point 1, it would be pretty hard to abuse.
Easy way to (attempt) to stop abuse.
1. Make it so you basically see the action, and the health bars. Could be that red team has a party health bar on the left of your screen, blues teams is on your right. Just like the normal party windows. Don't show any skills. Even if you click someone, don't show the casting bar. That way, unless its something obvious from the animation, you can't say "oh, this person is using this, then this, then this, lets go counter them!"
2. Put a delay on. If you have been in observer mode, you must NOT be in observer mode for 10 mins before you are allowed to join PvP in the arena you were watching. You can go elsewhere, but not that same arena. That gives the chance that the winning team has actually lost and so building to defeat them will be pointless. Course, this still lets you sit and observe to let you friends/guildies know what strategies to use, but coupled with point 1, it would be pretty hard to abuse.