Axe , overpowered ?

Hmm... INteresting... On that Half Moon data from that page... was it taken from an even altitude?

Knockdowns are what make you go hammer, but it still does more damage. In PVP you aren't targetted, so the loss of a shield isn't important either.

Hammer is a great line.

It's sword I don't understand. Why do that instead of axe?

Sword seems better for tanking, IMO, unless you are using Live Vicarously + Vigours Spirit + Cyclone axe on mobs in PvE.

But then again, this game is PvP oriented...

Sword's are better for tanking because tactics are MADE for tanking and some of the tactics skilled are combined with swords (Riposite... Deadly Riposite... *Of only pvp people learned the importance of these, swords might measure up better in competition*. Plus theres always the old myth and assumptions that swords are better.
I haven't really seen a effective hammer in battle but i don't look at them much (Plus i don't see much of them anyway). I personally don't feel axe and hammer should be compared to each other since hammer is used for a different purpose (Knockdown).

Can somebody explain to me how attacks are doing more damage vs. 100AL than they do against 60AL? I understand they have penetration but a penetrated 60AL is still going to be less armor than a penetrated 100AL?@#?$@?#?

They also listed some horrid selection of skills. For Axe you have nearly unlimited adrenaline if you can get 3 or so enemies around you to spam Cyclone Axe on. For swords with Flourish you have nearly unlimited energy to spam through attacks with. For hammers, well life hurts.

Elementalist damage is messed up too, is that damage vs 60AL when not listed? How exactly is Orb doing more damage to 100AL than it is 60AL?

Uhh Caster's wands doing more damage than a Half Moon on a Ranger? Was the Half Moon used in testing the same damage type as the wand against what AC target? I'd like to see the raw data used to gather the information because to me it all looks pretty bogus.

For the thread topic, Axe is great in PvE, not so great in PvP, I prefer sword since you can use energy based Flourish attacks while you gain adrenaline and when you have adrenaline you can hand out bleeding, deep wounds or 100+ damage hits with Final Thrust.

Let me try and clarify a few points:

Judge's Insight converts your weapon's damage type to holy type.
Undead enemies and certain necro armors are weak vs holy damage.

Holy damage does not ignore armor. This is a horrible misconception that I've addressed many times in the past, and is also part of the faq.

Certain Smiting Spells ignore armor, like Bane Signet, Banish, and a few others. They also do holy damage type, meaning they double the listed amount vs undead and necros, like I said above.

It's analogous to lightning damage vs lightning spells.
Lightning damage is a type- it has no inherent armor penetration.
Certain lightning spells have 25% armor penetration. That's a property of the skill, not the type of damage.

The benefit of holy damage is that it nullifies a lot of the bonuses people have vs physical armor.
If you attack a warrior with 80+20vs physical armor, using a weapon enchanted with judge's insight, his +20 vs phsyical is useless. That's where the holy damage type pays off- there is no armor in the game that gives a bonus vs holy damage type, there are a few that are weak against it, but there are a lot of armors that give bonuses vs physical damage types (slashing: swords and axes, piercing: bows, crushing: hammers).

The 20% armor penetration is a nice bonus. It is applied after the target's armor is calculated. It's also a clue that holy damage doesn't ignore armor- you can't have armor penetration on something that ignores armor.

So remember: Holy damage doesn't ignore armor. Some smiting spells ignore armor. Lightning damage doesn't have armor penetration- some lightning spells do.

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The chart:
It's a bit out of date and I don't know if Ensign plans on updating it anytime soon. It's a great resource to have but could use some polishing to reflect the retail version of the game. However, there's a lot of skill balancing going on still, so it's a pain to update now with more possible changes happening every day.

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Finally, my opinion on the sword/axe/hammer debate:

Swords have always been popular, because as someone correctly pointed out, they're swords. They also have the "cool" models- Dragon, Fellblade, Shadow, etc..

The general properties on the charts are right:
Swords do the least damage, but they swing quickly and are consistent in their damage. A sword crit is pretty laughable though, compared with axes and hammers.
Axes hit both extremes, so it's a bit of a dice roll. Minimum damage is 6, but maximum is 28, which means they crit hard. They swing fast, and have variety in their skills.
Hammers swing slowest, but hit the hardest, and do it consistently.

Those are the general properties.
Swords will remain popular because they're hard to mess up. There really are no bad skills in the line, so you can make a suboptimal build, but it's really hard to make a bad sword user. Highlight: Frenzy + Hundred Blades is the best way to get spike damage when stacking buffs.

Axes used to live and die with the current state of cleave. Axes are a solid choice that provide a lot of good options. They're a bit more versatile in the conditions they can cause, and skills like Disrupting Chop and Penetrating Blow are persuasive reasons to take axes that can't be found in the other lines.

Hammers have been maligned for a while, but they have their place. The problem is that it's hard to get your adrenal chain going, because the counters to warriors are very common and people rightly fear hammer knockdown. Blind, Wards, reduced attack speed, and Protection Monks make all warriors miserable, but hammers most of all. Hammers themselves are still good, but the current metagame has a lot of anti-warrior hate, making it more difficult to play one effectively.

However, the game is changing. There's a lot of talk about how elementalist spikes are popular, and it's been going on for a few weeks. Once people build their teams to deal with elementalist spike teams, the amount of hate people bring to deal with warriors will lessen, and will give rise to a new wave of warrior based builds. That is, for the teams who pay attention to what builds are being run against them, instead of thinking about how much damage they can crank out against a defenseless target.

Outstanding Post

Many Air lightning attacks do hidden armor penetration vs. warriors (or so I'm told). This could account for that bizzarreness. It would be good for this information to generally be more public.

Awesome post schaphism

nice post Scaphism, should clear up the misconceptions.

anyways, on to what i was going to say. The weapon type depends very much on what your overall team build is trying to do. A Hammer Warrior is a great Monk interrupter, and combined with Aftershock on a W/E can be damned dangerous if used correctly. However, they are slow, and other warriors/mesmers can take them apart with relative ease, and there are a lot of warriors and mesmers in tombs atm. Axes are my favourite, purely because everyone used to use swords, and I wanted to suprise people about how good axes actually are.

I suppose you could put it like it is in Real Life : a sword has more finesse, and you can do more with it, hence gashes, sever arteries, ripostes and so on - more arty farty tricks and conditions. Axes are used for smacking their way through armour and doing lots of damage, although if someone came at you with a sword you'd be hard pressed to stop them doing what they want. Axes are a damage dealer, so for most people who want to Warrior, they are actually a better choice than swords, which are slightly more reactive and defensive, with good conditions and trapping.

I tried to avoid mentioning specific skills, as part of the beauty of Guild Wars is that swords can beat axes when certain necro debuffs are being used etc.

Hey all, I'm pretty new, but after having done some research, I decided to be a Warrior/Elementalist (despite the lack of energy and whatnot) to become a hammer/earth magic character. I don't see what's so bad about the hammer, I do more damage than most warriors and I love the knockdown skills and seeing my opponents on the floor helpless and about to die. After knocking them down, they are vulnerable to my earth skills, which can create massive damage. Sure, I might be missing a shield or be attacking really slowly, but I'm fine with using the hammer in berserker stance. Plus, it gives me the adrenaline boost I need to use my knockdown skills. Overall, I like hammer the best.

Quote:

While most people talk about hammer they talk about knockdown. But I find weakness to be a really nice condition a hammerer can render, and is very useful against classes dealing physical damages like warriors and rangers. In addition, a hammerer can use belly smash to make someone blind, a condition that no other warrior types can make.

u guys are really underestimating hammers here... they are much better anti-casters then swords and axes w/ their knockdown skills. monks cant cast a thing if the hammerer is doing it right.