It see that Lightning is the "Flavor of the Month" and Lightning Ele's are ruling the Arenas. Has anyone used the ranger skill Winter to put a damper on them?
Am I right that changing the damage type to cold will remove the penetration bonus?
Is there a better solution to lightning than this?
Putting the "Chill" on Lightning
Greentongue
Uzul
winter spirit will make it cold dmg with armor penetration... ^^
Silmor
Which can be fun if your team is the one doing the air spiking, opposing parties might try to counter with lightning defenses and suddenly get cold spike damage in the teeth instead.
Kha
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Originally Posted by Silmor
Which can be fun if your team is the one doing the air spiking, opposing parties might try to counter with lightning defenses and suddenly get cold spike damage in the teeth instead.
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Haung Yu
Mantra of Lightning!!...
Too bad it only works on the caster.
Too bad it only works on the caster.
Mumblyfish
Fertile Season and Nature's Renewal will take most of the bite off any Elementalist, leaving them a burnt out husk. For bonus points, take Quickening Zephyr (and kill their Energising Wind) to make sure their "All Cannons Blazing" strategy doesn't work for any longer than a few casts.
Caco-Cola
I haven't seen a Spiking team win the HoH recently though.
A lot fo them get eliminated at the capture the relic round.
Others get eliminated elsewhere.
Yesterday in Scarred Earth we defeated 3 spiking teams, how? We just stood apart from each other. No chain lightning then.
The sudden bursts of lightning orb (at least I think that's the spell they use) where it's all timed out and stuff (caller goes 1 2 3 now on TS/Vent) hurt, but like someone said, with Fertile Season down it's just a really big scratch.
All the spiking teams I've been on have done well, don't get me wrong. But we also lost at the sigil CTF event cause we didn't have a meat shield to run the relic or kill their ghostly hero sooo not much we could do.
A lot fo them get eliminated at the capture the relic round.
Others get eliminated elsewhere.
Yesterday in Scarred Earth we defeated 3 spiking teams, how? We just stood apart from each other. No chain lightning then.
The sudden bursts of lightning orb (at least I think that's the spell they use) where it's all timed out and stuff (caller goes 1 2 3 now on TS/Vent) hurt, but like someone said, with Fertile Season down it's just a really big scratch.
All the spiking teams I've been on have done well, don't get me wrong. But we also lost at the sigil CTF event cause we didn't have a meat shield to run the relic or kill their ghostly hero sooo not much we could do.
Divinitys Creature
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Originally Posted by Mumblyfish
Fertile Season and Nature's Renewal will take most of the bite off any Elementalist, leaving them a burnt out husk. For bonus points, take Quickening Zephyr (and kill their Energising Wind) to make sure their "All Cannons Blazing" strategy doesn't work for any longer than a few casts.
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Energising wind is pointless for air eles because the minimum cost is 10 energy, which most of the lightning spells cost any way - orb is 15 and strike is 5 energy.
Greentongue
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Originally Posted by Uzul
winter spirit will make it cold dmg with armor penetration... ^^
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Not that you are wrong, just that the damage keeps the penetration.
If they are going to keep a damage type with penetration instead of having armor weaknesses, changing the damage type should remove the bonus.
Mumblyfish
Armour penetration isn't inherent to Lightning damage, it's just tacked on to a lot of Air Magic skills. Winter just changes a skill that does Lightning damage with 20% armour penetration, to a skill that does Cold damage with 20% armour penetration.
Asplode
R/Me or Me/R with winter and Mantra of Frost is an incredibly effective combo.
The original problem with mantra of ___ was that youre only protected versus one element, but if you convert all elemental damage to one type, well...
The original problem with mantra of ___ was that youre only protected versus one element, but if you convert all elemental damage to one type, well...
ComMan
Fertile Season only works against people who aren't smart enough to either destroy the spirit or move out of it's range. Granted, it's quite potent in HoH and King of the Hill, but then you're going to HAVE to plant it in a spot where it can be taken out fairly easily. They just kill your spirits and go back to spiking.
Spreading out to avoid Chain Lighting actually kinda funny. I wonder what the other team thought of that.
Spreading out to avoid Chain Lighting actually kinda funny. I wonder what the other team thought of that.
Evan The Cursed
I always thought one solution would to create a condition a player hit by lightning would receive for just half a second, that would reduce the damage of lightning attacks following. not by much, just like... if eight lightning orbs smash into one player at the same exact time, then the damage from each orb following the first is reduced. Some silly name I thought up, "Electric charge" or something XD
Then I realized that idea was stupid...
Yeah I'm just rambling now...
Then I realized that idea was stupid...
Yeah I'm just rambling now...
Greentongue
Surely there is a counter to Lightning ... 
Phaedrus
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Originally Posted by Greentongue
Surely there is a counter to Lightning ...
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Shielding Hands.
Swirling Aura.
Armor of Earth.
Protective Bond.
Mark of Protection.
Healing Seed.
Life Barrier.
Protective Spirit.
Reversal of Fortune.
Shield of Regeneration.
Spellbreaker.
Amity.
Pacifism.
Migraine.
Power Block.
Cry of Frustration.
Power Leak.
Guilt.
Power Spike.
Mantra of Lightning.
Distracting Blow.
Lightning Surge.
Gale.
Shock.
Thunderclap.
Mindshock.
Whirlwind.
Disrupting Chop.
Backbreaker.
Devastating Hammer.
Earth Shaker.
Hammer Bash.
Heavy Blow.
Irresistable Blow.
Dwarven Battle Stance.
Griffon's Sweep.
Skull Crack.
...and spreading out. *cough*
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eA-Zaku
Some of those are horrible counters...
What do I mean? Healing Seed...horrible counter. Reversal might work, but I'm not seeing it.
What do I mean? Healing Seed...horrible counter. Reversal might work, but I'm not seeing it.
Red Locust
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Originally Posted by Phaedrus
Ward Against Elements.
Shielding Hands. Swirling Aura. Armor of Earth. Protective Bond. Mark of Protection. Healing Seed. Life Barrier. Protective Spirit. Reversal of Fortune. Shield of Regeneration. Spellbreaker. Amity. Pacifism. Migraine. Power Block. Cry of Frustration. Power Leak. Guilt. Power Spike. Mantra of Lightning. Distracting Blow. Lightning Surge. Gale. Shock. Thunderclap. Mindshock. Whirlwind. Disrupting Chop. Backbreaker. Devastating Hammer. Earth Shaker. Hammer Bash. Heavy Blow. Irresistable Blow. Dwarven Battle Stance. Griffon's Sweep. Skull Crack. ...and spreading out. *cough* [ ] |
The rest are good counters (prot. spirit, reversal, spellbreaker, obsidian flesh) but require timing/ can be avoided by changing target. It depends on the enemy team; if their coordination is good, you're gonna need a hell of a team to survive their attacks.
Animal
Armor of earth reduces the spike dmg more than you think despite the armor penetration. I could be wrong, but you can use the protection spell Guardian as a defensive measure against lightning orb. Lightning Orb can miss since its a projectile and it seems like Guardian can block orb based off experience. Just reading the descriptions, Guardian can block magical projectiles. Reasonable 5 energy, 50% block rate and pair it with reversal of fortune not a bad solution. Survives the "changing target" idea since its cheap but then again is ~50% block.
Sekkira
Lightning damage has a percentage of armour penetration. People seem to forget that percentage of armour penetration does not mean armour is pointless. It just means if you put some more armour on with a buff, then it does provide a bit further protection against penetration if I'm right about how damage is calculated.
Ollj
Any mesmer skill csan kill ANY air ele (or 2)
xaanix
#1 best way to disable air eles is to take natures renewal. Air ele teams rely on attunements for energy management,usually elemental and air attunement. These attunements have a LONG recharge time (60 seconds) and without these skills, the air eles are only capable of spiking 1 or 2 targets before they're totally useless. As a special bonus, natures renewal will also strip off all their maintained enchantments (life bonds) leaving them entirely vulnerable to attack! 
Enjoy.
Enjoy.
StandardAI
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Originally Posted by xaanix
#1 best way to disable air eles is to take natures renewal. Air ele teams rely on attunements for energy management,usually elemental and air attunement. These attunements have a LONG recharge time (60 seconds) and without these skills, the air eles are only capable of spiking 1 or 2 targets before they're totally useless. As a special bonus, natures renewal will also strip off all their maintained enchantments (life bonds) leaving them entirely vulnerable to attack!
Enjoy. |
What's the real counter? Prot spirit, Rof, and Guardian. Keep in mind everyone guardian is much much better than aegis.
Prot Spirit = cuts lightning orbs damage in half
Guardian = cuts the chance of lightning orbs hitting in half
RoF = Stops an orb from hitting altogether and heals for that amount.
All of that is going to cost you 20 mana but as a word of advice you should always run an energy elite on your prot monk.
xaanix
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Originally Posted by StandardAI
Nature's renewal is bugged, lightning attunement isn't that important any ways, the truth is the recharge on your skills and exhaustion is what's going to hit you the hardest.
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You are of course free to use what you want. obviously the protection monk will attempt to stop spike from dropping a target, but depending on the coordination of the enemy offense it may not even be possible. 4x chain lightnings can drop multiple targets instantly, and a prot monk cant stop the damage from coming in on multiple targets at once. Many times its impossible to determine who will be spiked before they're dead. The best thing for situations like this is to just take the deaths, res up, and at the same time destroy their perpetual mana source. You now have (hopefully) a team that is capable of sustained damage, while they do not. The rest is elementary. Natures renewal cuts the legs out from under your enemy's air ele offense.
StandardAI
Hmmm? Was it fixed in a patch or something, I've ran a lot of tests with it and it only seemed to remove some enchantments some of the time. But that was about two patches ago.
xaanix
I'll double check with the guild tomorrow, but yeah i think its fixed. It wouldnt make its way onto one of our skill bars for gvg if it didnt work.
KamiCrazy
It removes everything now, theres apparently a new bug though, something to do with its range.
Greentongue
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Originally Posted by xaanix
Natures renewal seems to work fine for us (n0/club G).
You are of course free to use what you want. ... Natures renewal cuts the legs out from under your enemy's air ele offense. |
Another example where every profession has a place on a team.
StandardAI
Rangers own and deal better damage than air eles do.
salja Wachi
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Originally Posted by StandardAI
Rangers own and deal better damage than air eles do.
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while i will back a ranger as beign a very important character and i like to have them on my team if they are good. your statement is rediculous.
air eles do 100+ damage to multiple targets.
my friend you have some playing ahead of you
StandardAI
Lightning Orb, Spell: Lightning Orb flies toward target foe and strikes for 82 lightning damage if it hits. This spell has 25% armor penetration. Cost: 15; Cast: 2; Recharge: 5; Attribute: Air Magic;
That's 100 damage against 60 armor for 15 mana and can be done once every 7 seconds.
Kindle Arrows, Preparation: For 24 seconds, your arrows deal an additional 20 fire damage. Cost: 5; Cast: 2; Recharge: 12; Attribute: Wilderness Survival;
Quick Shot[El], Bow Attack: Shoot an arrow 2 times faster than normal. All your attack skills are disabled for 2 seconds. Cost: 5; Cast: 1; Recharge: 1; Attribute: Ranger General;
Where as a ranger can do 280 (315 with a perfect vampiric bow string) damage in 7 seconds costing 16 mana with 13 expertise against a 60 armor.
No one runes aoe in GvG, The DPS on a ranger is far greater and consistent than that of an elementalist. Even if you throw in chain lightning or echo orb it's still greater dps over time.
"my friend you have some playing ahead of you" - salja Wachi
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Edit: Oh yeah, winnowing and favorable winds add another 10 damage to the arrows, so that's 350 damage over 7 seconds, and 385 with a perfect vampiric bow string.
That's 100 damage against 60 armor for 15 mana and can be done once every 7 seconds.
Kindle Arrows, Preparation: For 24 seconds, your arrows deal an additional 20 fire damage. Cost: 5; Cast: 2; Recharge: 12; Attribute: Wilderness Survival;
Quick Shot[El], Bow Attack: Shoot an arrow 2 times faster than normal. All your attack skills are disabled for 2 seconds. Cost: 5; Cast: 1; Recharge: 1; Attribute: Ranger General;
Where as a ranger can do 280 (315 with a perfect vampiric bow string) damage in 7 seconds costing 16 mana with 13 expertise against a 60 armor.
No one runes aoe in GvG, The DPS on a ranger is far greater and consistent than that of an elementalist. Even if you throw in chain lightning or echo orb it's still greater dps over time.
"my friend you have some playing ahead of you" - salja Wachi
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Edit: Oh yeah, winnowing and favorable winds add another 10 damage to the arrows, so that's 350 damage over 7 seconds, and 385 with a perfect vampiric bow string.
Eclair
However, the problem is precisely that, its damage over time. Right now air elementalists are favored because they can spike for more than a monk can heal at for at a time. Damage over time means time for the monk to regain mana and heal back the damage dealt.
Phaedrus
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Originally Posted by Red Locust
Dude, most of those are crap. Shielding hands removes about 20 dmg, which is nothing. Same with healing seed. The armor increase from armor of earth is not as significant, due to armor penetration. Pacifism and Amity do absolutely nothing. All those mesmer hexes are quite insufficient since the spike build relies on 3 or more eles firing orbs at the same time, not just 1 that you can disable. All the warrior skills require the warrior to get close, and by that time someone is already dead.
The rest are good counters (prot. spirit, reversal, spellbreaker, obsidian flesh) but require timing/ can be avoided by changing target. It depends on the enemy team; if their coordination is good, you're gonna need a hell of a team to survive their attacks. |
Shielding hands isn't crap, it's just another ability that isn't overpowered so people don't notice it. It protects you from *any* type of damage. That seems pretty significant when stacked with something like protective spirit, ward against elements, armor of earth, healing seed, etc. Amity and pacifism prevent you from engaging in ANY hostile action. What are air spells that deal damage? You want to own three air elems one at a time, you might want a prot monk who has a sense of humor.
Part of being successful at surviving the air elem strike-force (which isn't hard, I don't know why people complain) is combining abilities to shut them down. People who can't pull from that list and take down three air elems need to re-examine their builds, not complain that air elems are overpowered.
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StandardAI
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Originally Posted by Eclair
However, the problem is precisely that, its damage over time. Right now air elementalists are favored because they can spike for more than a monk can heal at for at a time. Damage over time means time for the monk to regain mana and heal back the damage dealt.
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Eclair
Well, of course there's counters to every build, but that doesn't change the fact that spike damage is just as useful as damage over time damage. Different strategies require different ways to play, there isn't really a A is strictly better than B scenerio, and there shouldn't be.