I noticed a lacking in the ranger class...
Warriors_____
Swords
Axes
Hammers
Magic Users_____
Wands
Staffs
Icons
Rangers_____
Bows
Bows
and uh... Bows
I think that there should be some weapons added for the ranger class. Just using the bow can be rather boring. Perhaps make the new weapons require something other than marksmanship?
My Suggestions...
Crossbow
(deals more damage than bow, slower to fire, but does not have mods... uses bow attacks)
Blow Darts (unable to use bow attacks)
(now hear me out on this one)
Make them one handed, make them deal less damage, require them to be coupled with both a dart gun, and the darts. But, to make it worth while, have the different darts give different effects. Like
Stock Darts able to be bought for 10gp (just buy once, dont have to buy multiple of them, that would just become tedious)
Poison Darts (enemies struck become poisoned)
Ice Darts (deal cold damage)
Kindle Darts (deal fire damage)
Ignite Darts (you can guess what that would do)
Storm Darts (deal lightning damage)
Even make it so there are multiple types of dart guns... like
Imps Dart Gun (deal more damage, but extremely short range)
Giants Dart Gun (5% chance to knock foes down)
Snipers Dart Gun (great range)
I think ranger would become a much more widely used class, as now it is not very interesting
whats everyones take on this?
Expand Weapons for ranger
tazmaniac
Aranador
Naah
Nothing at all stopping your ranger using a staff, wand, shield, foci, sword, axe or hammer.
Nothing at all stopping your ranger using a staff, wand, shield, foci, sword, axe or hammer.
Phaedrus
Rangers have how many variants on the bow?
Unlike other classes, each bow has a different fire rate/flight time/range.
Rangers can also employ the weapons, shields, and focii of their secondary class.
How are they limited?
Unlike other classes, each bow has a different fire rate/flight time/range.
Rangers can also employ the weapons, shields, and focii of their secondary class.
How are they limited?
tazmaniac
I have recently discovered that, I was unaware of the differences between the bows, now that I know, the ranger seems pretty nice now.
Just so ya know I haven't been playing as a ranger for a long time, (about 1 week) and all characters for about 1.5 months in total
My primary character is a necro at Droknars Fordge
Just so ya know I haven't been playing as a ranger for a long time, (about 1 week) and all characters for about 1.5 months in total
My primary character is a necro at Droknars Fordge
Valerius
there is one thing tho i think they should add for a Ranger... and that is a staff that gives something to Beast Mastery...
like... if ur gonna go all out Beast Mastery... it'd be kool if u had a staff instead of a bow that gave like +20% to Beast Mastery recharge and +20% to Beast Mastery casting speed..
like... if ur gonna go all out Beast Mastery... it'd be kool if u had a staff instead of a bow that gave like +20% to Beast Mastery recharge and +20% to Beast Mastery casting speed..
Weezer_Blue
Rangers don't have it so bad. Take monks for instance.
Holy Rod
Holy Staff
Smiting Rod
Smiting Staff
...that's about it.
Rangers have...
Flatbow
Composite Bow
Recurve Bow
Storm Bow
Eternal Bow
Longbow
Shortbow
Shadow Bow
Half Moon
etc.
Warriors have more cause there are 3 divisions.
Holy Rod
Holy Staff
Smiting Rod
Smiting Staff
...that's about it.
Rangers have...
Flatbow
Composite Bow
Recurve Bow
Storm Bow
Eternal Bow
Longbow
Shortbow
Shadow Bow
Half Moon
etc.
Warriors have more cause there are 3 divisions.
Cymmina
I agree that something needs to be done for rangers regarding attribute requirements on weapons.
If I want to use a weapon with any respectable amount of damage, I need to waste 9 attribute points for marksmanship. I can't just go expertise/wilderness/beastmastery/tactics (what can I say, I'm growing exceptionally fond of having 4 running skills and healing signet)... always have to have marksmanship.
Every other profession is allowed to pick from weapons that require at least 2 different attributes. Mesmers can pick canes with domination or illusion as a requirement, monks can be divine favor or smiting prayers, you get the idea. Rangers? Just marksmanship. Adding wilderness survival (or expertise) to the list of the options would help a lot as is at least used for a fair number of preparations. Apply poison is kinda useless if you can't even meet the requirement for wielding the bow in the first place.
If I want to use a weapon with any respectable amount of damage, I need to waste 9 attribute points for marksmanship. I can't just go expertise/wilderness/beastmastery/tactics (what can I say, I'm growing exceptionally fond of having 4 running skills and healing signet)... always have to have marksmanship.
Every other profession is allowed to pick from weapons that require at least 2 different attributes. Mesmers can pick canes with domination or illusion as a requirement, monks can be divine favor or smiting prayers, you get the idea. Rangers? Just marksmanship. Adding wilderness survival (or expertise) to the list of the options would help a lot as is at least used for a fair number of preparations. Apply poison is kinda useless if you can't even meet the requirement for wielding the bow in the first place.
Heron Fensbanel
Imagine how funny a Ranger would look huffing away on an oversized straw.
Especially if your attack speed were increased.
Especially if your attack speed were increased.
deathwearer
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Phaedrus
Rangers have how many variants on the bow?
Unlike other classes, each bow has a different fire rate/flight time/range. Rangers can also employ the weapons, shields, and focii of their secondary class. How are they limited? |
Z-Shinrei
Rangers actually have one of the most diverse weapon selections (warriors too). Look at the casters, my Air Elementalist cannot upgrade his wand and foci at all, not one bit. I mean sure we get staffs but having a wand and foci looks cooler.
Evan The Cursed
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Phaedrus
Rangers can also employ the weapons, shields, and focii of their secondary class.
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And as many bows as Rangers have access to, they still require Marksmanship.
Angela Marika
Ivory bow too
RTSFirebat
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Evan The Cursed
If they have the attributes for it.
And as many bows as Rangers have access to, they still require Marksmanship. |
Still Elementalists have the same problem, I find a Gold Air Wand (req. 12 air magic), but I have a gold Fire Staff (req 13 fire magic)... can't switch at will can I?
In all fairness it does make the game more channelling having to plan battles before I go out and do them.
Nefser
Quote:
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Originally Posted by RTSFirebat
I've yet to meet a ranger who doesn't have marksmanship
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by RTSFirebat
Still Elementalists have the same problem, I find a Gold Air Wand (req. 12 air magic), but I have a gold Fire Staff (req 13 fire magic)... can't switch at will can I?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by RTSFirebat
In all fairness it does make the game more channelling having to plan battles before I go out and do them.
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If you want to make it more challenging, fight things with weapon types they are immune/highly-resistant to. Or take your Ranger out to play (wihtout a pet) with his Req. 10 Marksmanship bow and no points in it. Enjoy.
RTSFirebat
Another rude reply from you...
I'm not blind as you would like to put it, you see this is a classic situation where the game designers want different classes to remain in different role types.
For example Warriors can use Swords, Axes and Hammers... to they're best advantage... becuase they aren't meant to be melee attackers.
However a W/R can use a bow if they want to, but most likely more attiubute points will be used on warrior ones, limiting how well they can use the bow.
While I do agree that rangers are limited to the use of bows only, they are meant to be ranged attackers... not melee. Sure they could add some different types of bows into the mix, but a ranger, just like an elementalist is generally deadmeat in close range combat.
I guess they could allow rangers to use knifes or special small swords as last resort melee weapon...
But really at the end of the day if you want to use other weapon types you select a different class... you can have it both ways.
Now there no need for that is there? Since this is a public discussion forum, I'm within my right to make whatever statements I wish, along as they are within the rules of the forum.
You don't have to agree with them. But since you have resorted to replying my statement with a cheap sarcastic reply like that, I'm finding it hard to take you seriously. I think you need to chill out mate
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Nefser
Why are you being so blind to his point? The problem is not that he is unable to switch at will between using bows with requirements in different skills, the problem is he can't find/equip. a bow that suits his build...unless he's created a build that's using Marksmanship.
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For example Warriors can use Swords, Axes and Hammers... to they're best advantage... becuase they aren't meant to be melee attackers.
However a W/R can use a bow if they want to, but most likely more attiubute points will be used on warrior ones, limiting how well they can use the bow.
While I do agree that rangers are limited to the use of bows only, they are meant to be ranged attackers... not melee. Sure they could add some different types of bows into the mix, but a ranger, just like an elementalist is generally deadmeat in close range combat.
I guess they could allow rangers to use knifes or special small swords as last resort melee weapon...
But really at the end of the day if you want to use other weapon types you select a different class... you can have it both ways.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Nefser
Do you have a habit of making ridiculous statments like this, or do you really think this way? It's as challenging as walking outside, seeing that its raining and 'restarting' back at home with a raincoat and/or umbrella. "Whoa, look at me. I'm able to plan intelligently to face the challenge." *cough*
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You don't have to agree with them. But since you have resorted to replying my statement with a cheap sarcastic reply like that, I'm finding it hard to take you seriously. I think you need to chill out mate
Kazahana
they should implement bows that req expertise or something and monk weps that go off of healing or protection prayers
RTSFirebat
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Kazahana
they should implement bows that req expertise or something and monk weps that go off of healing or protection prayers
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Or sharp spike crossbow that cause bleeding, but does only a bit of damage.
Kazahana
well i was just saying bows that req expertise so you didnt have to get marksmanship if you didnt use any marks based skills
RTSFirebat
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Kazahana
well i was just saying bows that req expertise so you didnt have to get marksmanship if you didnt use any marks based skills
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Rhunex
Quote:
| That's EXACTLY his point. They all do because they all HAVE to in order to use a bow (with worthwhile results). They can't use a bow with a requirement of any other skill because they dont exist. |
Quote:
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Do you have a habit of making ridiculous statments like this, or do you really think this way? It's as challenging as walking outside, seeing that its raining and 'restarting' back at home with a raincoat and/or umbrella. "Whoa, look at me. I'm able to plan intelligently to face the challenge." *cough* If you want to make it more challenging, fight things with weapon types they are immune/highly-resistant to. Or take your Ranger out to play (wihtout a pet) with his Req. 10 Marksmanship bow and no points in it. Enjoy. |
It doesn't happen that way. Here's how it goes...
" ****! Our team build is going to be slaughtered unless we can take out their monks early on. Then we can work on the mesmer affecting our tanks, and then work on their tanks."
O yes, and it would definately be your most intelligent move to go into a battle with a weapon your character is not prepared to use. If the ranger is not suited to use a bow, they can equip a low defense shield focused on the mods on it(most likely +def and +HP). And if they arent using bows, they must be using spells, so it might be nice to have a wand with +12 energy on it(energy doesn't require an attribute level).
Schorny
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Rhunex
O yes, and it would definately be your most intelligent move to go into a battle with a weapon your character is not prepared to use.
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The 'Problem' with Rangers is, you have just one attribute for a weapon. Every other profession got 2 (warriors 3). And that is the complaint.
Let's say a Staff of Beastmastery or Staff of Wildernesssurvival would do the job. A Rangers should not be forced to carry a bow. Of course, a bow opens up all the Marksmanship skills, but what if I want to go Beastmastery/Wildernesssurvival/Expertise. Currently this is not possible due to lack of a good weapon.
It is not a primary concern, because Bows are obviously best for most rangers. But there _should_ be the possibility to use an other attribute for a staff/wand or maybe some kind of knife or whatever. Just not to be forced to use the Bow would be nice.
And that is the point. Expertise req for a bow would be weird, as Strength req for a sword would be. But there are other weapons...
Rhunex
Yes, I've tried understanding other points of view, and it just doesn't work for me either way. I've made an effective ranger that doesn't use a bow, and instead uses a wand, and shield(7 base defense, no req on it). I get more defense, and I get the energy I need to cast the spells my pet uses, so he's stronger in battle. Plus, the energy helps with traps, spirit spells, etc.
Just because a weapon doesn't say Blunt Dmg: 12-22(Lvl 10 Beast Mastery Required) doesn't mean you can't use it. If you're not going to use a bow, you're not going to be playing Ranger for your physical damage output...simple as that.
Just because a weapon doesn't say Blunt Dmg: 12-22(Lvl 10 Beast Mastery Required) doesn't mean you can't use it. If you're not going to use a bow, you're not going to be playing Ranger for your physical damage output...simple as that.
Cymmina
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Rhunex
Just because a weapon doesn't say Blunt Dmg: 12-22(Lvl 10 Beast Mastery Required) doesn't mean you can't use it. If you're not going to use a bow, you're not going to be playing Ranger for your physical damage output...simple as that.
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Ignite Arrows (wilderness) + Dual Shot (no attribute) is still effective for a non-marksmanship ranger, but you still need a bow. If I wanted to be a poisoner, again with a bow because Apply Poison (wilderness) and Poison Arrow (wilderness) only work with bows, and I think the only poison upgrade for a weapon comes on a bow.
Rhunex, why do you insist on telling people their complaints have no merit simply because you don't mind playing your character in a crippled fashion? Does the desire for a bow with expertise or wilderness hurt you, the balance of the game, or anyone else?
eventhorizen
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Schorny
The 'Problem' with Rangers is, you have just one attribute for a weapon. Every other profession got 2 (warriors 3). And that is the complaint.
Let's say a Staff of Beastmastery or Staff of Wildernesssurvival would do the job. A Rangers should not be forced to carry a bow. Of course, a bow opens up all the Marksmanship skills, but what if I want to go Beastmastery/Wildernesssurvival/Expertise. Currently this is not possible due to lack of a good weapon. It is not a primary concern, because Bows are obviously best for most rangers. But there _should_ be the possibility to use an other attribute for a staff/wand or maybe some kind of knife or whatever. Just not to be forced to use the Bow would be nice. And that is the point. Expertise req for a bow would be weird, as Strength req for a sword would be. But there are other weapons... |
Wow... Dude how many Necros, mesmers, elementalists, monks etc. have you played recently that had ANY attribute related to weaponry? Except for certain bonuses ofcourse. Warriors are meant to be about weapons and power/health whatever, so their attributes reflect this.
As far as strebgth required for a warrior weapon... strength isnt just about skills, each point of strength gives you 1% armor penetration. That means if you max strength, which a lot do, you do more damage to heavilly armored players than other warriors do. Strength in my view is almost a necessity for your weaponry. Sure you might have builds that ignore strength, those are probably all the warrior monks you see running around failing to cut margerine with their swords, let alone anything with a hint of armor.
Rangers in my view were meant to be a physical damage dealing class like warrior, but from range.. I dont think bow attacks lack compared to other types of attack, and if you LEARN YOUR PROFFESION, you will find ways to do crazy amounts of damage. Rangers from my experiance are tough little feckers too. Ranger/monk is a hell of a tank, and with very little energy cost.
Plus there is AoE damage, traps etc.
no personally I dont think they need nerfed, I think they need learned...
suzumebachi
how about:
muskets? for expertise or something. hunting knives for wilderness survival? ok yeah it's highly unlikely, but it would be cool. wouldn't rule out some kind of firearms for one of the expansions though.
muskets? for expertise or something. hunting knives for wilderness survival? ok yeah it's highly unlikely, but it would be cool. wouldn't rule out some kind of firearms for one of the expansions though.
Canook
U FORGOT TRAPS DAMNIT! lol.
Daekar
i agree that ranger have many types of bows so dont need a great variety of other weapons...since we also have traps. BUT what would be neet it ranger had a dagger or somthing. fast low damage dealing but easy to disable the attack so its easier to run to get inot better advantage point. just an idea :P
Canook
hmm like a throwing knife...interesting..
poison
fire damage
blind
cripple
poison
fire damage
blind
cripple
EchoSex
Hoboy *Smacks forehead* It's starting again. One of the reason I quit AO was inbalance. Two professions ended up ruling over every other player in the game. Mainly because of wanting more and getting more since the admins played as those two professions. I think the combat and PVP system is absolutely fine the way it is. If you want more weapons, have a warrior as your second class. If your gonna update weapons, you gotta give something to everyone in the end. 'nuff said.
shady_knife
[QUOTE=Phaedrus]Rangers have how many variants on the bow?
Unlike other classes, each bow has a different fire rate/flight time/range.
QUOTE]
not really, all they do is look different, if you check the stats i thinkthere are 3 bows.
Unlike other classes, each bow has a different fire rate/flight time/range.
QUOTE]
not really, all they do is look different, if you check the stats i thinkthere are 3 bows.
eventhorizen
[QUOTE=shady_knife]
Hum actually, if you TEST different bows, they APPEAR to fire different distances, different Rates.
I know that iv fired bows that even when high would barely reach outside an ooponent just outside my aggro circle, other bows iv fired can spank mobs half a mile away! (quite far outside my aggro circle)
Now whether this is my perceptions playing up or what I dunno, but until told otherwise im faily confident what im seeing is (virtual) reality.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Phaedrus
Rangers have how many variants on the bow?
Unlike other classes, each bow has a different fire rate/flight time/range. QUOTE] not really, all they do is look different, if you check the stats i thinkthere are 3 bows. |
Hum actually, if you TEST different bows, they APPEAR to fire different distances, different Rates.
I know that iv fired bows that even when high would barely reach outside an ooponent just outside my aggro circle, other bows iv fired can spank mobs half a mile away! (quite far outside my aggro circle)
Now whether this is my perceptions playing up or what I dunno, but until told otherwise im faily confident what im seeing is (virtual) reality.
Kiru Malkav
I'd agree with the whole ranger weapon with wilderness survival, expertise or beast mastery as another attribute idea.
At the moment I use lots of traps and poisons etc to help me, and prefer to keep my marksmanship down to the minimum I need for the bow (9 at the moment)
If there was a dart gun or something that used marksmanship I'd drop those 9 points in an instant. Afterall what Ranger isn't using something like ignite arrows or conjure to provide enough damage for other classes to go "Oh wow, the ranger isn't sucking so hard today"?
Now if marksmanship provided an inate speed increase (not even a very fast one, just something minor) to your bow, that would be amazing. Maybe even making a set of bows that can be machine gunned but do less damage.
At the moment I use lots of traps and poisons etc to help me, and prefer to keep my marksmanship down to the minimum I need for the bow (9 at the moment)
If there was a dart gun or something that used marksmanship I'd drop those 9 points in an instant. Afterall what Ranger isn't using something like ignite arrows or conjure to provide enough damage for other classes to go "Oh wow, the ranger isn't sucking so hard today"?
Now if marksmanship provided an inate speed increase (not even a very fast one, just something minor) to your bow, that would be amazing. Maybe even making a set of bows that can be machine gunned but do less damage.
tazmaniac
Quote:
| Dude how many Necros, mesmers, elementalists, monks etc. have you played recently that had ANY attribute related to weaponry? Except for certain bonuses ofcourse. Warriors are meant to be about weapons and power/health whatever, so their attributes reflect this. |
Lemme try to explain my reasons for making this post.
Sword: Slashing Damage: Req Swordsmanship
Hammer: Blunt Damage: Req Hammer Mastery
Bone Staff: Cold Damage: Req Death Magic
Accursed Staff: Dark Damage: Req Curses
Smiting Staff: Holy Damage: Req Smiting Prayers
Holy Staff: Fire Damage: Req Divine Favor
Flat Bow: Piercing Damage: Req Marksmanship
Short Bow: Piercing Damage: Req Marksmanship
Long Bow: Piercing Damage: Req Marksmanship
Half Moon: Piercing Damage: Req Marksmanship
Composite Bow: Piercing Damage: Req Marksmanship
There is not a ranger weapon that does not require marksmanship. All I want is a ranger weapon that I can use that DOES NOT require me to take valuable points from my other atributes just so I can use a bow that requires MARKSMANSHIP! I'm not saying right now, but it would be nice in an expansion.
Deathlord
I could see the reason for wanting more than one attribute type for ranger weapons but is it neccesary? Beast mastery isn't a very good skill especially for pvp, pve it isn't so great either. Expertise possess effects that support skills linked to bows. Wilderness Survival Traps are the only thing i can really imagine that have a category, and even the, i doubt they'll make a "Traps for Dummies, 10-20 damage, Req. 9 Wilderness Survival). Bow's have variety, if you want to try new weapons then it might be time for another character.
Epinephrine
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Originally Posted by tazmaniac
There is not a ranger weapon that does not require marksmanship. All I want is a ranger weapon that I can use that DOES NOT require me to take valuable points from my other atributes just so I can use a bow that requires MARKSMANSHIP! I'm not saying right now, but it would be nice in an expansion.
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Note - I do not want new weapons like blowguns, crossbows, etc... just a few bow types that use Expertise, most probably with the same ranges/rates as existing bows. I'm actually going to repost the focus part separately, as it is a separate idea.
Aug
So you want another weapon line for Rangers? You obviously can't have a weapon with the same DPS as a Bow tied to another Ranger attribute. That wouldn't be balanced. You site Monk/Elementalist/Mesmer/Necro weapons as examples, but they don't have the same DPS as a Bow. Nor any of the utility powers that Rangers have with Bows.
It's not like a Warrior can ignore Axe/Sword/Hammer and be viable with any of those weapons. The same is true for a Ranger. You can't ignore Marksmanship and be viable with a Bow.
Did you guys really want a Blow Gun attribute with a set of skills? Because that's what would have to happen to give you another weapon choice that wasn't based off Marksmanship.
I have no complaint about making a Crossbow model and associating it with Marksmanship, if it shares the same DPS as a Bow.
It's not like a Warrior can ignore Axe/Sword/Hammer and be viable with any of those weapons. The same is true for a Ranger. You can't ignore Marksmanship and be viable with a Bow.
Did you guys really want a Blow Gun attribute with a set of skills? Because that's what would have to happen to give you another weapon choice that wasn't based off Marksmanship.
I have no complaint about making a Crossbow model and associating it with Marksmanship, if it shares the same DPS as a Bow.
Valerius
i think all bows should require Markmanship...
but i do think there should be other weapons for Rangers that require maybe WS or BM... just cause if i wanna go all out BM then i prolly wouldn't have any skills in Markmanship... prolly Expertise:14 BM:12 and maybe WS: 8 ...i think there should atleast be a .. maybe a staff or something that a Ranger could use that gave bonuses to BM ..same goes for WS...
but i do think there should be other weapons for Rangers that require maybe WS or BM... just cause if i wanna go all out BM then i prolly wouldn't have any skills in Markmanship... prolly Expertise:14 BM:12 and maybe WS: 8 ...i think there should atleast be a .. maybe a staff or something that a Ranger could use that gave bonuses to BM ..same goes for WS...
Drago Solaris
i redirect you all to my ranger off hand idea
Evan montegarde
I'd like to have a gun of some sort. Like, a flintlock musket. Slow reload time, fast flight time, lots of damage, misses a lot, and pierces all armor.
Massassi
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Evan montegarde
I'd like to have a gun of some sort. Like, a flintlock musket. Slow reload time, fast flight time, lots of damage, misses a lot, and pierces all armor.
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i think its a good idea to have another weapon for Ragers
Hunter's Spear (req. 9 Beast Mastery)
Krytan Blow Dart gun (req. 3 Wilderness survival)
don't sound bad to me and if there were blow guns for wilderness survival i'd have my W/R stop using swords because it'd be great to see the big warrior blowing away at that little bamboo straw.