Level Capping

We're all used to our all powerful characters doing plain attack damage at 100+ and impenetrable armor, but the thing I do love about this game, is that capping the level makes us feel more like human heroes with a vast amount of power, and less like supreme beings with the potential to rule the planet.

I've always had this cruel insight on gaming, that players shouldn't be helped too extensively, like the rune trader, I prefer keeping true power exclusive to those who know how to harness it. By capping our levels, the rest of the game is entirely strategy and intelligence-based, in turn creates a bold line between those who excel and gamers used to bulking it out with the most powerful spells or attacks.

Something I've always noticed lacking from many many games was that they can't seem to perfect the art of making the game continue to rise in difficulty without balancing it out with higher levels and stronger builds. I commend Guild Wars for being the first game to succeed in killing the Play As God aspect of gaming and popping in bosses twice our power but beatable with one power that surpasses all others in importance - thinking power.

someone gets it

Haha exactly. The revolution has arrived

I like that the levels cap out at 20, but in reality, all it does is redirect the grind elsewhere. No. You won't spend hours trying to get from level 1,000 to 1,001. But you will spend hours trying to get 1 more superior rune or skill point. Sigh*... Was better during beta.

Or you could stop worrying about such things and simply play the game the way it's intended to be played.

As for the level cap itself, I liken it to a black belt in karate. Sure, you're the best of the best, but there are still plenty of people out there who could kick your ass. Just because you have a black belt doesn't mean you don't have to fight smart.

Karate, along with any martial art is exactly as it says - art. The main idea of it is to learn the techniques from every angle so you'd know what to pull for a counter attack or defend a hit. I don't quite get what you're saying, but needless to say you, for everything in life to succeed, you need to know what you're doing.

Gaele, your avatar is very annoying. I'm not just trying to be a jerk here, seriously, it's VERY annoying.

Agreed - level capping was a stroke of genius. I remember games like Morrowind where my character soon became virtually invincible at higher levels and it was so boring. You might think becoming a God is great but in reality it's a curse.

Oh, and I agree that Gaele's avatar is really annoying too.

I love that one of the first things you do once you've reached lvl 20, ascended and 'beaten' the game is to face off against a lvl 31 Dragon.

What's so sepcial about knowing you're the greatest ? I'd prefer to know that I'm not the greatest, but that I can still beat the greatest. That's where the real satisfaction lies.

The game currently has a very strong foundation, which can be accredited to the strong PvP system, and the *optional* time sinks like rune-unlock hunting that may give the grind-meisters the slightest shadow of an edge over the casual players. Now, all A-net needs to do is to keep building on ingame content, improving on already potent content such as the "Guild-based" community aspect of the game, to make this a CORPG utopia. And who said anything about raising the level cap?

ArenaNet did actually. They say quote: "Currently the level cap is set to a maximum of 20. Once you reach Level 20, you will continue to acquire skill points and refund points, but your health and mana points will be capped. At this time, there are no plans to raise the level cap. If we do make a change, or if we have a higher level cap in future chapters of Guild Wars, we will be sure to share the news in an interview, on our various fansite forums, or we will make a post about it on our official site, www.guildwars.com. Please keep an eye on the site for future updates."

As I said quite a while ago, I don't see them raising the level cap any time soon because you can still make things more difficult without raising the cap. However, there does come a point eventually where it is so hard, you will have to raise the cap. And I can see it being implemented all across the board, not just for people who got the expansions. I don't see it as a large increase either, more like something about level 25-30.

It wont be the difference between a team of level 20 dudes against a level 35 and a level 25-30 against a level 40-45, but a different of a level 20 to 35 and a different between a level 30 to 50-55. (the higher levels being held by the mobs)

I'm not trying to flame anyone, but some people talk like the level cap was the greatest invention made by Anet. Level caps were implmented by many other games before this. Eventually they raise their level caps because it helps keep interest in games, introduces new areas, items, skills, stats, etc.
If the level cap remains and they just introduce new equips, missions, stories, quests it will keep interest for awhile. But I think most people like the level increase with addition of all the other things. It gives them a sense of satisfaction and reward for the time they invest in playing. PvP players get rewards but probably the most important is bragging rights. If you PvP and know the ins and outs and play with teammates who listen to you or know things you do, then your team will be successful. You'll probably win many battles therefore giving you bragging rights. Ability to say you've got one of the best guilds or groups around. PvE players get rewards from doing missions, leveling, finding unique items (farming), defeating hard bosses. Even know I can say if you take a level 20 ascended player into a mob of 20+ char you'll die. So if level and stats go up a bit it doesn't mean that you'll necessarily be able to take on 20+ char and obliterate them. You'll have more life, maybe more skills thats it. Life helps a bit but when you're getting pounded by melee and casters your life drops pretty quick.

*Is level cap necessary? Yes.

*Should it be set in stone? No. This is a game and a business. Devs need to keep players interested and make sure people buy expansion. By introducing a new equips, areas, bosses, quests, missions, and raising level cap they are guaranteed to sell more products (expansions) to current players. It's all about money in the end for the company. Not about maintaining a level cap of 20 because some people like it that way.

*Introducing this stuff to PvP will always change PvP gameplay which will make it more interesting. PvP'ers will be scurrying to figure out new ways to own people and better killing machines.

-- Does this mean they should change levels for PvP characters. Not necessarily. They could still maintain a level cap for PvP players and just introduce the new skills and equips. They could also create level caps for arenas. Old Ascalon arena could be capped at level 12. Therefore if you're 20 your level and stats drop to a level 12. If you're level 30 the same thing would occur. Then once you're farther into game with new arenas caps could raise. (This would also prevent the losers who go to Old Ascalon at level 20 to kill young level 8-12 players who want to PvP but stand no chance.


*****MY opinion, I could care less what Anet does. At this point in time i'm undecided about whether or not I would buy expansion and continue playing. Currently I"m in a stalemate and just waiting things out to see what direction the game is headed. Once I have a better idea then I will decide. This means above are just ideas and thoughts to consider. Flame me if you want it will just show your immaturity.

Hear! Hear!

What if the expansions or updates are not geared to increase the depth of the storyline, but to increase the width? For example, existing features such as the Guild Halls may be spruced up to provide more replayability instead of the one-time thrill-factor derived from adding end-game, story-based content. Basically, what we have now is the bare-bones product, a skeleton engineered for future expansion and development of a more immersive rpg experience. Too much game content, and the resultant increase of player levels, will lead to a convulted storyline, and in the long run, an inevitable grind. My point is, why introduce more elements of gameplay when the existing structure has ample space for expansion?

So a sense of satisfaction and reward would be a little number changing? From level 48 to lvl 49? Well, I'm sure that makes MMORPG players happy as children. There are many games out there that even ask for a fee to give you this kind of satisfaction. Actually I think that if a game whose principal feature is just Chopping Woods were out, many people would buy it. Everyone would be happy to chop woods all day in a videogame to raise their "Minor Chopping Woods Skill" by 1 point and a half. (Argh, I'm afraid Blizzard will steal my brilliant idea and ship World of Boredom in 2008)

In my humble opionion, videogamers have evolved from the times of Wonderboy and Supermario. People are more demanding in terms of gameplay experience...so the problem is: if people didn't like lvl 20 cap, Arenanet wouldn't make money. So yes, they will mantain a lvl cap of 20 if most of people (as it seems) appreciate that.

Actually this kind of statement could be translated as "hey, I know that my points are so and so, therefore I'll write a tough sentence in the end of the post to automatically counter any serious reply and label it as flame. Oh, and I'll use the word "immaturity" to provoke them in the hope someone actually flames me".
Argh, clever guy.

Having a higher level cap will change nothing in PvE, the only things that levels increase is your Hitpoints and your Attribute Points. Okay, so lets see.. I can take more hits, and because of my higher attributes I can dish out more damage. Oh, but because the monsters are harder, they have more hitpoints and they deal more damage...

Well dangit! We're back where we started.

Level also increase your damage. But I agree, raising the level cap would be pointless, and against what ArenaNet have tried to achieve (a skill rather than time based game).

I believe they will do it at the end of the games natural lifetime. When an expansion sell too little to pay for the continued development, they will try to increase the level cap as a gimmick, and the result will be that the next expansion will sell even less.

But as long as the original game and expansions are selling well, there will be no reason to derivate from their original vision.

Bit off topic: There, I changed my avatar. Are your weak stomachs and fragile minds satisfyed yet? No more brain lapses for my forum friends <3

Back on topic: An expansion is only another way to say Start Fresh. I know plenty, in fact almost too many people who play expansion games before the original, sometimes they shun the original on their desk for the entire time. If they raised the cap in the next installment, then it's for the newbies to Guild Wars who have never played and not making the game seem like a second flight of stairs continuing from the first, while at the same time giving the older players a fresh new run down of the game. No one wants the same standard level of gaming experience in a sequel or an expansion.
By raising the cap, provided they even decide to, it means that the monsters will be even more challenging and the whole thing will feel like new vynil interior on your good car.

Let's stop complaining and take it for what it is, it might be a refreshing change to have a higher level of potential in creating character.

Wait, aren't you contradicting yourself here? The rune trader is there to minimize the advantage given to players "used to bulking it out with the most powerful spells or attacks". True power is still exclusive to those who know how to harness it - no one will ascend the latter without experimenting with countless builds and fine-tuning their tactics. And the rune trader is there to make sure that stays true.

The rune trader is as I see it, a pacifyer for the complainers about not having found runes for days and just can't seem to wait for their next break. It also does play a factor in granting everyone a power they didn't entirely earn. Even if people have the right to fiddle around with builds and skill sets, while I don't hold off anyone's right to do so, but you don't need to boost a skill to know if you can use it well and are comfortable with your build in relation to your preferred fighting style.
I like spell-casting, I don't need to inflate that aspect to the point where it outconveniences anything else just to find out if it's right.

No contradiction to my notice.

Unless they raised the skill level caps (12), raising the level cap would not make characters better in any way except for farming. At the current level cap you can already master 1 skill tree as well as nearly another supporting tree (correct me if I'm wrong, you may be able to master another tree, I haven't done the attribute quests yet).

So, since this game is directed towards teamwork, raising the levels wouldn't really help a team accomplish anything. You have 8 players on a team each with a maxed out skill. Thats about as godly as you're going to get in this game. And the game has basically eliminated the need for farming -rune traders and rare materials traders- so leveling higher to make a more self sufficient character wouldn't really help you much except be a waste of time.

Simply enjoy the game as it is. If you get bored, start a new character. Half the fun is mastering your character, not mastering the game.

Why everyone complain about rune traders, they just help the game, some people have absolutely no luck in finding runes, the traders just even out the fields a bit. You have to remember, this game isnt about who has best runes and armor, its about who can deploy the best tatics, as a team. If a team had no runes but knew how to play correctly they could beat people who have runes. Rune traders should stay, they are doing nothing wrong and just helping people who have trouble finding stuff to enjoy the game.

Call me wierd, but I don't see why you have keep making the game progressivley harder and harder. Just maintain a brutal - but still beatable level of difficulty and the game will remain fun and interesting. All you gotta do is throw something new at the players but not nessecarily more diffcult.

Now that runes are so cheap, theres less stuff out there to actually spend money on. Meaning theres more money that people are just sitting on, making everything else more expensive. Plus rune traders make it HARD for new players to make money selling runes. Just lucked out and found a major rune?
Yeah, too bad it's worth less than 100 gold on the market, now. I think rune traders hurt newbies more than they help.

Plus traders hurt the creation of a player economy by setting artifical prices. Prices that players often feel are too low are too high. Want to buy black dye? Yeah, the trader will buy it for 3.6k so you gotta buy it for slightly higher. Or the rune trader will often sell major runes at 125, wanta sell me that rune yeah gotta beat the trader price.

Now you got a bunch of goods that people won't sell on the market becuase the prices are too low and a bunch of goods that people won't buy on the market becuase the prices are too high. So nobody buys or sells anything, gold stockpiles and prices for items (the only thing not pricefixed) goes way up.

Awwwww, cute little kittie!! Seriously though, thanks.

It's all supply and demand, and people don't seem to be demanding major runes of *insert random attribute here*. The best selling runes at the trader seem to be absorbsion, fire, and vigor runes, because that's what people want. I got over a plat when i sold a minor fire at the trader, and get about 50 or so for major wilderness survival. The rune trader actually put some runes that were popular higher in price and dropped the less popular ones quite a bit.

I like the rune trader, because it means i don't have to hold on to every rune that i've ever owned because "well, maybe i'll make a beastmastery/curses ra/nec someday" Perhaps the price floor on major and superior runes could be raised a bit, but i don't see any problem with unpopular minor runes selling for 125.

if I can't be level 100 I don't want to play anymore!