Guild Wars Guru

The Ignite Arrows Paradox

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R
Ryoushi
Ascalonian Squire
• #1
I have heard many fellow rangers saying Kindle Arrows is better than Ignite Arrows. I suppose the reason for this is simply because Kindle Arrows does 2 more damage than Ignite Arrows.

This is wrong.

Think about it like this, folks. Kindle Arrows does around 2 more damage than Ignite Arrows. Now if Ignite Arrows only targeted one enemy and Kindle cost less energy, than I could see the use. But since Ignite explodes and also affects enemies around the one you attack, the 2 damage difference basically offsets itself.

In fact, this makes me wonder: why even include Kindle Arrows when Ignite Arrows is so good already?
BrandonIT
BrandonIT
Frost Gate Guardian
• #2
Well, speaking from my own experience which is mostly PvE, this is why I use Kindle Arrows over Ignite Arrows.

1.) Because I get +2 damage PER SHOT.
2.) Less energy means I can spam other Ranger shots more.
3.) I'm usually fighting enemies that don't gang up together, usually I'm picking off the lone caster in the back, or the large boss monster beating up on our monk.

I've just decided that for myself, Kindle Arrows works better and I feel I'm more effective with it.

However, something like Dual Shot/Ignite Arrows on packs of enemies, I agree, can be quite devastating.
I
Incognito
Academy Page
• #3
I think Kindle does +5 more damage than Ignite.
X
Xight
Ascalonian Squire
• #4
Quote: Originally Posted by BrandonIT
Well, speaking from my own experience which is mostly PvE, this is why I use Kindle Arrows over Ignite Arrows.

1.) Because I get +2 damage PER SHOT.
2.) Less energy means I can spam other Ranger shots more.
3.) I'm usually fighting enemies that don't gang up together, usually I'm picking off the lone caster in the back, or the large boss monster beating up on our monk.

I've just decided that for myself, Kindle Arrows works better and I feel I'm more effective with it.

However, something like Dual Shot/Ignite Arrows on packs of enemies, I agree, can be quite devastating. Can you team up Barrage with Ignite? That would seem extremely devasting if it stacked.
M
Moskel
Frost Gate Guardian
• #5
Barrage removes all preprations, you have to be a R/E or R/Mo to really take good advantage of Barrage by stacking with Judge's Insight or Conjure <Ice/Energy/Elec>.

Barrage + Ignite would = death and destruction, after your first salvo into a group of 5 enemies you would see why it isn't allowed
Falconer
Falconer
Frost Gate Guardian
• #6
Barrage basically supercedes ignite....

Ignite is 15 fire damage to everything around your target in fire damage... barrage is +13 to 15 damage in attack damage to start with. So the AoE damage is much higher.

However, I think many people in the kindle/ignite miss an important point. In PvP it's not uncommon to miss despite the best attempts of mice and men. Block/Evade/protection spells aren't uncommon as they effectively reduce damage from rangers and warriors. Ignite is very nice in this case because it's AoE ignores if the shot misses.

In fact, paired with a skill like mark of rodgart, you can guarantee your target can't avoid your exploding fire arrows and keep em burning like a pro. Where a good defensive enchant like aegis or similar will give you some trouble.

Kindle is better single target damage... but because shots miss now and then I find that ignite and kindle are roughly equiv over the long haul. And the AoE on ignite also has some nice side benefits. (I like how it sets off reversal of fortune for the big damage guys, so it's a 30 point heal instead of a 140 point heal (70 damage which WOULD have been inflicted gets changed to 70 healing.. so 2x70==140).
C
ComMan
Krytan Explorer
• #7
I don't know what +2 Damage you're talking about: My Ignite does +12 damage, my Kindle does +17. That's +5 per shot.

Kindle is also half the mana cost of Ignite, so if you plan on actually attacking with it, then you will want to save that extra mana to use for your attack skills.

12 area damage isn't worth it. You won't even notice the difference after that first target is down. Better to drop target 1 and move on that waste time to nick up the other targets.

If you want area damage, then Barrage is your skill.
R
Rusty
Pre-Searing Cadet
• #8
As already said, both skills have their advantages, splash damage, or higher single target damage, and I usually choose the one that best suits the situation, based on what I know I'll be fighting, and whether they group together, or stay far enough apart to avoid splash damage.
A
Asrial
Desert Nomad
• #9
As someone who does PvE (solo) and PvP, here's why I choose KINDLE over IGNITE, 9 times out of 10.

Dual Shot + Ignite Arrows = 20 energy
Dual Shot + Kindle Arrows + Hunter's Shot = 20 energy

I can usually keep up a good barrage of Dual Shot and Hunter's Shot instead of having to wait on the recharge time of Dual Shot.
I
Ishamael Sedai
Wilds Pathfinder
• #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Falconer
Barrage basically supercedes ignite....

Ignite is 15 fire damage to everything around your target in fire damage... barrage is +13 to 15 damage in attack damage to start with. So the AoE damage is much higher.

However, I think many people in the kindle/ignite miss an important point. In PvP it's not uncommon to miss despite the best attempts of mice and men. Block/Evade/protection spells aren't uncommon as they effectively reduce damage from rangers and warriors. Ignite is very nice in this case because it's AoE ignores if the shot misses.

In fact, paired with a skill like mark of rodgart, you can guarantee your target can't avoid your exploding fire arrows and keep em burning like a pro. Where a good defensive enchant like aegis or similar will give you some trouble.

Kindle is better single target damage... but because shots miss now and then I find that ignite and kindle are roughly equiv over the long haul. And the AoE on ignite also has some nice side benefits. (I like how it sets off reversal of fortune for the big damage guys, so it's a 30 point heal instead of a 140 point heal (70 damage which WOULD have been inflicted gets changed to 70 healing.. so 2x70==140).

....as a protection monk in the tombs who likes reversal of fortune... i despise ignite arrows!
Stormer
Stormer
Ascalonian Squire
• #11
omg ure all only rambling about the +5 or +2 damage and the explosion (aoe) effects. ever thought that kindle arrows lasts 24 secs and has 24 sec recharge, whereas ignite arrows lasts 12 secs and has a 24 sec recharge? jesus, learn ur skills!
I
Ishamael Sedai
Wilds Pathfinder
• #12
whatever the recharge amount ignite arrows takes a lot of the punch away from rev. of fortune whereas the other one does not
C
Corwin
Ascalonian Squire
• #13
Quote: Originally Posted by ComMan
I don't know what +2 Damage you're talking about: My Ignite does +12 damage, my Kindle does +17. That's +5 per shot.

Kindle is also half the mana cost of Ignite, so if you plan on actually attacking with it, then you will want to save that extra mana to use for your attack skills.

12 area damage isn't worth it. You won't even notice the difference after that first target is down. Better to drop target 1 and move on that waste time to nick up the other targets.

If you want area damage, then Barrage is your skill. This is the reason I usually go with Kindle. I've seen it posted on the boards that Ignite is better, because it's AoE dmg that can't be blocked or evaded. On the other hand, my personal experience has been that the AoE benefit is minimal compared to the extra energy cost and lower single target damage.

And Stormer - I just logged in to double-check: both Ignite Arrows and Kindle Arrows last 24 secs... Maybe you were thinking of Melandru's Arrows, with its reduced duration?
K
Kishin
Krytan Explorer
• #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Stormer
omg ure all only rambling about the +5 or +2 damage and the explosion (aoe) effects. ever thought that kindle arrows lasts 24 secs and has 24 sec recharge, whereas ignite arrows lasts 12 secs and has a 24 sec recharge? jesus, learn ur skills! "Jesus, learn your skills!" yourself. Ignite lasts for 24 seconds, as does Kindle. This website has it listed incorrectly. Check in game if you don't believe me.
Dreamsmith
Dreamsmith
Elite Guru
• #15
This is why I bring Ignite Arrows in PvE and Kindle Arrows to PvP -- one works better fired into hordes of mobs, the other works better sniping individual targets.
Enigmatics
Enigmatics
Jungle Guide
• #16
I've enjoyed using mark of rodgort with ignite arrows, but I would agree that normally kindle arrows is easier to use to effect in pvp.
Demon Rebel
Demon Rebel
Frost Gate Guardian
• #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Dreamsmith
This is why I bring Ignite Arrows in PvE and Kindle Arrows to PvP -- one works better fired into hordes of mobs, the other works better sniping individual targets.
I have to say this is what my experience reflects!

Still being noobish... I am very happy after having a ward against melee or blind casted on me to have the AoE with Ignite... Finish off the turd that made it so I can't directly hit.

Though I have yet to try PvP I am looking forward to using Kindle.

AoE vs Individual all depend on application -

AoE - As I can weaken a horde thats running after my party at a distance with Ignite so my team can drop them easier and then turn and do damage to one or two enemies that are targeting a specific teammate with 1 shot I consider this very helpful.

Individual - yes its always nice to find a lone target and demolish them quickly and efficently.

The 24 second time for both of these is quite handy.
M
Mind Wallaby
Frost Gate Guardian
• #18
Kindle also always hits even if your attack misses, so that's not something unique to Ignite.

Ignite is fun with Quick Shot, but the splash damage is usually nothing to write home about. I prefer Kindle.
rwt2006
rwt2006
Academy Page
• #19
Ok so what if u get 2 more dmg to ONE person why not send 15 to 4 ppl ? or wait make that 30 use double shot and they take double aoe
Arcador
Arcador
Wilds Pathfinder
• #20
That's the game ment to be dude - combos

Ignite can be devastating when used with team build. For example we made one bout mass area dmg, so that the monks cannot handle to heal everything (of course bad side is that we may die before killing a single enemy)

Barrage is elite for sure, with some other class skills it can be deadly.

Also Ignite arrows with Edge of Extingtion spirit is one of a hell for the minnion master.

In 4v4 arena is not that usefull.