Best *type* of shutdown mesmer

Interupts, energy denial, hexes, other?

I like energy denial for shutting down a caster.

As a monk, energy denial is the type I hate the most. Hexes I can take, but not having someone energy drain me with an arcane echo-ed energy drain and then hit me with energy tap/burn.

As for shutting down monks, I'd say Interupts are the worst... they not only ruin the spell you were casting but also make you lose the energy you put into that spell. Backfire (I consider that an interupt instead of a hex.. it doesn't let you cast) is really one of the worst spells I can face when I'm playing my monk. It usually stops me from healing for a few seconds, so I'm completely open to damage (as is the rest of my party if I'm the primary healer).

As for everyone else, I'd say energy denial. You can get away with not casting for a few seconds due to backfire, but if you're out of energy, you're just about screwed. Especially if you use a lot of spells with high energy cost.

My personal favourite anti-caster mesmer runs 11/10/10 domination/illusion/inspiration and uses arcane conundrum, power block/spike/leak, diversion and arcane thievery.

You can always carry another stance to end frenzy prematurely if they catch on.

you forgot to mention

constant blackout. although it is a hex spell, however... it is a hex that you can not remove.

blackout isn't a hex, it's a skill . The best shutdown is diversion in my opinion.

With my War/Mez the 2 spells I am carrying around ATM are Power Leak and Diversion.

However, on my Ele/Mez, Air Wiz I usually lead off with backfire before I DD.

Tsunamii Starshine

Why not mixing them up a bit? And then use different types of shutdown versus different target?

For target 1: Hex

1/ Backfire/Blackout/ Diversion/ Cry of Frustration

For target 2: interrupt/ Mana denial

2/ Power Block/ Power Leak/ Power Spike/ Energy Drain/ Energy Tap/ Power Drain/ Energy Burn

Problem; that's too many elites and too many skills

For target 1; you're looking at fast caster/spammer profile or elementalist with too large a manapool that you got no hope to ever empty...

For target 2; slow caster, protection monks with too many enchantement to maintain.

My choice:

Blackout/ Backfire/ Diversion. Recharge is 10/20/5

Power Block/ Power leak/ Power Drain. Recharge is 30/20/25. Then the main issue for handling the second target is slow recharge time + not that efficient Drain.

So far, it's Domination (mainly) and Inspiration.

For a 7th skill, I'd either go for Arcane Echo (illusion ) to duplicate a slow recharge Power Drain. Or a simple energy Tap. Arcane Echo might be a bit tough with a spell like an interrupt. Hum... Well, Energy Tap just looks better, and it's a drain that does not need a spell to get active. But then energy tap is soooo slow... that it does not feel that good with interrupt build.

Tough choice

I'd go for: Backfire 1st target, the switch to second target, interrupt whatever on the second target (I'd use Power Block first, then Power Drain, Leak is last), after 10 sec, switch back to 1st target, blackout it, waiiiitttt (and anyway you got to wait since your interrupts won't refresh anytime soon).... get some energy back, backfire will refresh again soon, back to second target, etc...

Now that would be sweet, sweet dreams. truth is; enemy mesmer will look at you as a first target and chances are your first backfire will get interrupted... From there it all goes down to drain, then warriors invite themselves for lunch and you're soon dead

Or at least that's how it goes in my limited experience.

Louis,

As a healing monk, I can assure you that nothing makes my life harder than increased recharge times.

With energy denial/backfire, I heal less. A couple of distortions/distracting shots, and I can hardly heal at all. Of course, timing it to hit my spammables isn't easy, but that's half the fun.

Eeek, what am I saying. Ignore all of the above. What you really want to use on me is Empathy. Yep, that's right. Honest.

/whistles

Its been my experience that skills dont matter as much on a Mesmer as timing,target management(selection/prioritization) and positioning.

Here is what I currently carry on my Mesmer/Monk for Tombs/HoH. It changes depending on who I'm running with at the time. I dont play a Mesmer in GvG.

Backfire,Diversion,Shame,Blackout,Chaos Storm,Power Block, ,Leech Signet,Restore Life

You'll know you've invited a bad mesmer when the primary target doesn't go down quick enough or if they dont know what "off,odd or even monk" means.

I disagree. The heals I use most often are fairly short casts, so I would think they would be risky to try to interrupt. If you do, you've cost me 5-10 energy and a second and a half. Of course, if you do hit with a power block, it will be pretty devistating to have no healing prayers spells for a long while.

Energy draining is the best route vs. monk I think. Most times I don't even notice I'm being drained until all my juice is gone, and even if I did notice there's nothing I can do about it unless I carry spell breaker for my elite to give me a brief reprieve.

Elementalists have the high costs and the generally longer cast times, so they'd be the prime interrupt targets I'd think.

what does "off,odd or even monk" mean?

Just so I don't play a bad mesmer

I will have to agree with the monky here. Having experimented, and gotten my timing quite good, at some point, you run out of interrupts and have a few seconds of watching the monk heal him/herself up to ful to start over again.

Power block being the exception. Hitting that on a heal, and you are all good.

I have been experimenting with energy denial. Seems to be working well. Also, I beleive this in the end frustrates the player more and causes them to make more mistakes on a mechanical level since they are spamming waiting got the 5 or 10 energy.

It's all about the mind game baby. =)

CM

Someone else asked, but I'll ask too: What do these mean?

No point in telling people they are bad because they don't know something and then not educating them!

(There are bad mesmers because no one has taught them how to be good!)

This post is a great example of why most guilds won't use pick up mesmers. But hey, keep doing what you are doing. You are just making life easy for me as a monk.

I also play a mesmer when I want a break from being a monk. If you can't get on a target and cause it to cast ABSOLUTELY NOTHING THE ENTIRE BATTLE, and harass a second target at the same time you aren't doing your job.

*sigh*

Do we kneel when worshipping at your feet or just bow our heads and throw money?

Backfire gets removed so fast it's not worth it without a hex cover. Mind Wrack is a good cover.

Why?

Because they suck. I expect a mesmer to get on a monk, or whatever for that matter, and shut it down (ie the topic of this post). If it isn't doing that, then it is worthless.

It is a very simple concept boys and girls. If you are playing a shutdown mesmer and you can't shutdown said monk or whatever 100% (barring outside influences, we all know mesmers are nice squishy targets) then you aren't doing your job, and you are just another weak link to your group..... I mean, is that really too much to ask?

You said this post is an example of why you don't bring pick up mesmers. I then asked you why this post is such a good example and you said because most mesmers suck. That doesn't make sense.

And I think it pretty much goes without saying that a mesmer should be shutting down a caster.

This question is like asking "is there a best etc.?"

There is none!

There will always be a mesmer out there who's better than another mesmer at something else. Hell, I made a DoT end game mesmer designed to mess with EVERYBODY ^_^

Though for answering the purpose of these questions, I'd say there are two very focused highly dangerous types of mesmer...

Anti-Caster

Anti-Physical [I don't like to say melee cause rangers can be just as big a threat]

Anti-caster: Backfire, Diversion, energy drains, Counterspell Interrupts. Quite good against other casters but dump a high damage warrior on them and well...

Anti-Physical: Empathy, Phantom Pain, Imagined/Ethereal Burden, Spirit Shackle+Mind Wrack, Spirit of Failure. Near Perfect against anyone who does non-elemental damage but against a spike elementalist, you're dead.

I'd like a blend of both for my Mes/Nec. He's not as potent as an anti-caster against monks, but at least he has something that can hamper BOTH classes quite effectively. [I've posted his build here as a DoT Late Game Mesmer]

Though not as potent, he's VERY hard to counter since he's diversified.

It was quite asinine to tell us that our mesmers are bad if we don't know the invented terminology your guild uses. I expect based upon the wording that off monk is the first one you're targeting as a mesmer. Odd monk would be the one the team isn't attacking and the one you didn't start with. Even monk would be the same as the on-target monk, except your invented terminology was clearly designed to confuse us instead of being clear and precise.

Time to make a mesmer me thinks

I won't deny it. Taking a bad mesmer is like taking 7 people with you. They have to do their job very well, or they're just not worth taking along.

So, to the actual topic of this thread, I find I'm at my best when I'm interrupting. Arcane conundrum, shame, guilt, power leak/spike, Diversion (never leave home without it!), and then some odds and ends skills.

I imagine energy dep is a pretty neat thing to do, but I'm not specced for inspiration.

Whoa somebody give grimmolly a hug.

Off monk. Not the monk that is being targeted

Odd monk. Has an odd number next to his name

Even monk. Has an even number next to his name

Knowing when to hit which monk is the Art in Mesmer.

I thought the concept of 100% shutdown was very easy to understand, but I guess not. So, here we go:

1. Arcane conundrum + the power series: Hex breaker is going to own arcane, the next hex you cast, and maybe even a third depending on how quickly the monk and mesmer is. Even if you get the 3rd hex on it, it will be removed almost instantly. So now you are trying to power spike spells that have a 1 second or less cast time, especially on a prot monk whose spell cast times are even less. In the end, monk is by far not 100% shut down.

2. Blackout: It definately has its uses. But, blacking out a single monk in a group for 6 seconds isn't going to do anything. Blacking out every monk in the group at the same time and then spiking targets works. But, this once again isn't 100% shutdown.

3. Diversion is another good spell, but you can't rely on it to do anything special. You cast diversion on me, if hex breaker doesn't catch it, then I am either going to have it removed, wait the time out if possible (depending on the damage the group is taking), or I am just going to cast a spell that has a huge recast time anyways, like aegis or spell breaker. I can easily just spell breaker myself, I am now not even close to shutdown, your group's casters can't touch me, and you failed as a mesmer to shut your target down. Good job.

4. Chaos storm is a crappy spell. It doesn't do crap for damage, and it takes a whole whopping one second to walk out of.

5. Why would you backfire and use diversion on the same target at the same time? I am not even going to bother here.

6. Energy denial: Good route, but pointless if that is all you are doing. Monks have signets, low energy cast spells, and a variety of ways to get energy back. This is the closest thing I have seen in this post to complete shutdown.

7. Backfire: Everyone on the plannet knows what the icon of this hex looks like. It is going to be removed instantly, and has a horrid recast timer. If you are going to use it, it will be much better spent on another target.

All this post is is the same 15 gimmicky spells over and over. There are 60 other mesmer spells that do absolutely wonderful things if you learn how to use them.

*hugs grimmoly*

I play a ranger/mes ... interrupts and energy drain is my job. I'm not a high damage dealer (nukers job), Im not a meat sheild (warriors job) ... Im an interrupter ... thats my job!

I can say timing is everything and if a mesmer has made it to the tombs (not a hard task) and still cant hit there timing ... your gonna get my great canadian boot asap. If partied in a few pickups with decent mesmers and they really CAN be effective. CAN is a lucrative word here because you have greater odds against you as joining a party you give a weak squishy link unless you really can do your job. Its not a mesmers job to shut down everybody. Quite frankly anyone whose asking that is asking to much. As you only have 8 skills and effectively can knock out 1 opponent and maybe throw a stick in the wheel of another. As a ranger I am not a squishy target ... in fact if a warrior comes charging after me ... all the better ...

I can knock 40 energy off someone before they know what hit them (usually takes) if thats where I'm asked to go ... other wise its interrupts and you can really mess with any caster ... just gotta get your timing on ... and a note to any new up and coming mesmers ... if you missed a spell dont late cast just jump on the next spell ... (this is where n00b and weak links come from) too many will try for that late cast and fall into a onslaught on missed interrupts, thus making them useless. Smart mesmers will know about covering there skills, for the newer mesmers ... get to know your skills (cost **casting time** and recharge) ... most importantly is casting time though. This is to be as effective as possible while mainting your energy.

On another note ... pickups successfully and royally waste time ... get your guild in a coordinated effort or at least get a few guys you have played with before ... I would like to see a full mesmer team take the hoh just to prove that mesmers dont suck (hey if they can successfully shut down monks ... why is this team build not in there already? lol)

Wow, a voice of reason. I am not a big fan of rangers but atleast you know what you are talking about and have done the research on your character. And, I have been on mesmer based teams that took and held the alter, atleast before the current patch.

Calling odd or even like this isn't really helpful. It's easier to call by numbers. We always have the team call their target and speak the number in teamspeak and usually the caller lists the numbers of the likely mesmer targets, then the mesmer tells us what number he's on first, the off monk or caster.

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