GW about Magic and not Melee?

I've been lurking and played a BTW here and there but I find that all of this talk of "skills" gives the feeling that GW is about magic users that just have different sets of powers depending on what class they have. Before you attack you cast 20 different spells of offense and defense and then see what your sword does. The other fellow does the same thing and sees what his sword does.

Kind of makes "player skill" seem more like a joke since if you don't build up the right "magic" skills you are hosed. Of course most PvP encounters would be made up of groups who hopefully compliment each other. Even though, if the team finds out too late that they didn't spend enough points in "dispell life sucker" and the other team has a "skill" invested dude in "life sucker" the first team is pretty much hosed.

All of this is over simplification to the who deal but the endless posts of "how is this skill set/build for my monk/war look?" lends me to think that the PC skill advertised is in how well you pick your PC skill sets. The emphasis is off of "dueling swordsman" and now on "dueling buffers" where the winner is decided by who buffs the best. What is to prevent someone from macroing a chain of buffs that are indefensible thus in the sense having push button victories?

The frosting on the GW cake looks like a magic users/buffer's delight game as opposed to skilled melee/ranged dudes slugging it out with *normal* weaponry. When you nerf a dude with a sword it is a real fight (or visa versa), when he nerfs you with a buff buffet where is the fun in that?

GW looks like another 21 page spreadsheet game where you have to cross index skill sets to cover as many buffs as you can in order to be reasonably competetive. MMmmm...errrr.... it all seems too overly complex to be much fun for the casual gamer who grew up with D&D ed 1&2 where magic was there to wittle the enemy down until you could bring your sword, bow, or other weapons to range. Unless you were a primary magic user, the melee was the way combat was decided. Magic was limited to a few memorized spells and health potions cured everything.

Am I wrong to assume that GW is a buff based CORPG?

buff play a big role in gaining advantages during a PvP combat, but with that alone... you can not win.

therefore, GW is not completely focused on buff and debuff... as it can not bring you victory alone.

Keep in mind that Guru is rather famous for its very in depth guides and other resources, and so its only natural if people come here asking how strong there build is, if a sudden flavour of the month skill is being heavily used due to a an article/thread, etc.

'Skills' is just the general term for all your char's special moves. Crushing Blow is referred to as a skill, so is Fireball.

It sounds to me like you just have a problem with buffers. If they want to buff up then let them, they're using up a skill slot to do whatever buff they're doing, and if its becoming a bother you can always strip the enchantment(s).

And let me end this by saying that strategy is half the battle, since we're not playing we can only strategise, the player's skill in execution is another matter, and one that can only be tested in an actual match.

ALERT: LISTEN TO THE VILLAGE IDIOT AT YOUR OWN PERIL

Sad to say I must agree generally with the OP (original poster). Advanced PvP people will all have similar gear and damage potential, even though the party makeups may vary quite a bit. The concentrated firepower on one target will be fairly similar. The outcome therefore will be based on the team with the better buff/debuff/knockdown/distract/slow/heal coordination.

This depresses the Village Idiot quite a bit, and gives him Excedrin Headache Number 1337 when he thinks about these strategies too much. But there is always solo exploration and coop missions.

HotSnack, you pretty much make the OP's point: If the enemy wants to buff, let them, since you can just debuff. Your team MUST bring buffs and debuffs or lose, unless you face a team with a glaring weakness.

And anyone who thinks there won't be smart mods to auto-buff/debuff/heal is living in a fantasy world. Wait. That didn't come out quite right. Well you get the drift.

It's lovely how this guy says casual play and D&D in the same sentence. The irony hurts. Funny thing is though, he got it right that this game is about buffs but that's only because of that huge thread about anti-enchants sucking according to Charles and Rex.

John Tricknee, butcherboy, You guys should look at all the skills available to the classes. You can get an idea of what they can do then. There isn't a whole lot of make-your-person-better-overall skills. It's not like "Cast This spell/Use this skill and you are now uber" It is more complicated than that. Anyways, most skills only last around a minute at max, they take quite a bit of energy if you're not a primary caster, and having only one or two casters in a group will not do. They would have to buff the whole party, the likely don't have the time/energy to do so. Do not forget there IS an enemy while this is happening. All the buffs do not just happen. You have to wait at least 10 seconds to recharge before a skill can be used again(10 is normal for buffing skills at least, not attacking skills) By the time you get 2-4 skills off, You could be relatively dead. You have to keep yourself alive while giving these buffs... It can get very complicated.

I think this is all correct. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Is buffing that bad? you might as well be complaining that it's unfair how someone on your team is expected to waste their slots on bringing along healing spells.

The guy compares it with D&D. It's definately not his type of game. He's comparing Starcraft to Final Fantasy figuratively.

I don't think it is in this game. However, In games like Asheron's call, You could buff a level 1 with level 7 spells and that level 1 could be a level 33 in less than 30 minutes. That's what I didn't like about buffing.

Let me specify on a few things in this. I've bolded them and answering them in order.

No, You can only have 8 (I believe) skills at any given time during a mission or PvP battle.

You are half-right here. Yes, Having a good set of skills makes a large difference. But, this game is sort of limited in it's skills. There is no combination of classes that can buff to the point of being indestructable. They do not make you incredibly stronger as they would in other MMORPGS.
Also, How GuildWars is setup, There is always one class that can murderlate a specific other class, and be murderlated by a different specific class.

Not quite that way...In PvP There is much strategy involved. You have to think about how you can combine class skills between eachother to survive well. You can't just have one "buffer". If that class can only buff with it's 8 slots, it won't be able to defend itself, and will be a sitting duck to other characters that just have to come by and whoop him. No... There is more teamwork involved. There are no superbuffs, and buffs don't help you to the point of being unstoppable.

You are correct here. Picking your skills is important. They have to compliment each other skill you have. But, in most cases, Your character is designed to take out a particular type of class. I've heard no combo that can kill any type of class. No, this is why teamwork and individuality is important in your team.

Hope this was all correct.

i have to say that i kind of agree with the butcher. i do wish that the game would be more about swords and sheilds,and not all about the goodly magic users. however that in NO way will keep me from getting this game, and i will still play my war/necro to gaming bliss.

and him comparing D&D to any game type with RPG in the title is understandable. i mean after all every RPG we have is in part do to D&D. that game started it all.

Uh, no. If you compare Guild Wars to any rpg, you seriously need to get your head in check. Guild Wars is based at the core as a competitive system. D&D has no balance whatsoever, for god sakes, TIMESTOP? Stop thinking right there. People should be comparing Guild Wars to counter-strike/warcraft3/starcraft/age-of-empires/etc etc. It revolves around balance in power, and competitiveness. The fact that guild wars has characters already baffles people and makes them think it's another RPG. That's silly. It's just a jerked up version of planetside/infantry in medieval fantasy.

Take a hard look at the Warrior and Ranger professions.

Considering that a majority of people play Warrior/{something}, using "swords and shields" is most likely a valid option. In fact it wasn't that long ago people were complaining that Warriors (then Rangers) were way too powerful.

The Warrior skills would be better classed as "Special Feats" than "Spells".
You can still gang attack and body block with nothing but Warriors. (Ask the Koreans. )

lol it IS another rpg so you must compaire it what it is ( rpg=role-playing-game)

HAHAHA counter strike? omg warcraft and starcraft? lmfao AOE?

yes its competive and yes it need stratigy that in no way means you can compair it to a FPS and afew RTS's. i mean come on guy thats just................. i cant even think of a word.

The game isn't all about spellcasting- if you look at the warrior and ranger lines, there isn't a single spell in either line. They've got Stances, Preparations, etc which they can use to improve their attacks, but that's fairly realistic. A ranger dipping his arrowheads in poison or a warrior sacrificing defense for faster attacks makes perfect sense. Then you've got all the attack skills, which will be your staple skills for any attacker- Sever Artery, Executioners Strike, Hammer Bash, whatever. They're just powerful attacks- they're still definately attacks. To use them, you still swing your sword or shoot your bow.

You don't need to spend much time buffing your character, if you spend any time at all to begin with. Most players that I've seen don't use more than one skill to add damage to their attacks(like a Conjure Element), and with recent changes, it's nearly impossible to buff your attacks more. Instead you use your skills to deal more damage than you would do with your normal attacks.

Let me put it this way- which is more fun, mindlessly swinging your sword at someone, or using special attacks when you swing your sword in order to deal more damage? GW isn't a game where you can start attacking someone and go watch television- you have to actually be there controlling your character and using your skills. For Warriors or Rangers, these aren't spells, but more powerful attacks and similar things- changing your stance to change from offense to defense when you've got people attacking you, or sprinting in order to catch someone running away from you.

Buffs can be helpful, but not overwhelming. If you spend 20 seconds buffing up your warrior, by the time you're done, the buffs will be wearing off. If you rely on a buffed up warrior to deal damage, you can easily be shut down by many of the anti-warrior skills out there. GW is a game of counters- whatever you do, there is a way to counter you. Games are won by the team with the best build that uses their skills to best effect at the correct times.

On the other hand, there are combat classes and caster classes. A warrior kills people by closing to melee range and smacking them up with a weapon. A ranger shoots arrows from afar. But then you've got the casters, who can be either ranged or melee characters, and use spells rather than attacks. Casters rarely have buffs of any sort, other than healing to keep them alive through the pounding that they're getting from warriors and rangers. Rather, they cast spells like Fireball, manipulate corpses or hex opponents, or similar "magical" effects.

No spells really have that overwhelming of an effect- if a team focuses on using one or two skills on their characters, they're going to have some very significant weaknesses- rather than trying to counter their attack, hit them where they are weak. Sure, if they've got 8 W/Mo's and you don't have much anti-warrior skills, you might be in trouble, but if you've got a mesmer with Sympathetic Visage and an Elementalist with Ward Against Melee, you have a rather good chance of taking them out. A large part of the skill in the game is coordinated around builds- bringing the right skills and using them at the right times.

This is a bit off-topic, but I feel that I need to point out how entirely false this assertion is. Guild Wars is an RPG, as Computer RPG's are popularly defined, and always has been. The developers themselves call it an RPG every time they refer to it. It's an RPG with a competitive streak, but it's not counterstrike with a fantasy setting. If it were, there would be zero emphasis on story, quests, or any PvE content whatsoever. Anyone who thinks that an entire half of the game is irrelevant has no understanding of what Guild Wars is, and is ignoring a good deal of what the developers have said about it in their interviews. The fact that it's managed to attract a lot of people who are only interested in a small part of it doesn't change the nature of the game itself.

You've got that exactly backwards. If all you had to do was walk up to someone with a sword and start whacking, without any thought into what skills you're going to bring to the battle and how you're going to use them, this game would require no skill at all. It requires a great deal of skill precisely for the reason that it has all the myriad skills and combinations it has.

Oh, and let me add I'm one of the one's laughing at the comparison of the relatively simple Guild Wars to anything as horrifically complex as AD&D 1st or 2nd Ed.

Ahahahahaha, no that's not funny. <snip>. The game barely emphasizes RP as it is. If I sold diablo 2 saying it's a RPG, you would believe it, because you can't even figure out how the game works. Please play the game before you post.

Edited by Aria to remove personal attacks.

Before people have too much fun rambling on about who knows what (anymore than they have), I will give you the straight truth. Yes, you are wrong to assume this. Oh well. We all make mistakes.

The best defense is a good offense.

Oranges are easier to peal than apples.
Oranges are juicier than apples.
Apples are more solid than oranges, they've got more "meat" to them.
Apples are easier to bake with than oranges.

"You're comparing apples and oranges" is an observation, not an argument, much less a knockdown argument. Some reason beyond that must be invoked if one is to construct a valid argument as to why a particular comparison is not relevant to a particular discussion.

How about actually reading up on what the developers themselves have said about their game before you post? Apparently, you didn't read my reply so I'll restate the main point: If Guild Wars was nothing more than counterstrike in a fantasy setting, there'd be no PvE whatsoever. They wouldn't have gone to so much trouble to create the intricate quest system, there would be no missions or need to find equipment and build your character by exploring the world. You show a profound misunderstanding of what Guild Wars is. Go read the latest interview with Jeff Strain here, if you need something to jog your memory.

You need to stop being a fanboi, and take a look at reality. If you think the staff at Anet don't know how to lie in your face, you deserve to be like this.

Again, play the game. Not listen like a flock of sheep.

now honestly guy, are you trying to tell me that i should compair this game to a RTS?
one where i can build up a base make an army and atack another guys base?

it might not be RP for you but to some it will be. everyone that enters a RPG dosent have to role play, but that dosent change the fact that the game is still considered a rpg now does it?

in your post you simply tryed to belittle me and you made no real argument please think before *you* post

Oh good grief. Have you even played the game? I'm not "listening like a fanboi" I'm telling you what's actually in the game. I'm telling you what I've played. It contains an epic storyline complete with missions and cut scenes, a very elaborate quest system, and requires you to discover things by exploring the world and unlock them as you go. For the third time, if Guild Wars was simply Counterstrike Fantasy, none of this would be in the game. These aren't things I've read about, they're things I and thousands of other people have been doing every single beta weekend.

This thread has become nothing but a flame/troll fest.

If you want to engage in personal attacks or personal battles with someone else, please do it outside of these forums. I'm locking this thread unless someone has a desperate, urgent need to add a reply. If there's enough interest, I'll clean it up and reopen it. PM me if you just HAVE to post a mind-shattering, brilliant idea relating to this thread.