Skill point grind is still unacceptable. ~850,000 exp to get enough points to unlock

... Unreasonable almost 850,000 exp to get enough points to unlock all your skills is unreasonable... that is just crazy... Add another method other than Fame or EXP past 20 to gain skill points. Like a Skill point NPC trader... For 1k you get a skill point, or 10k, or 20k or whatever, enough to add a gold sink and end this horrid grinding...

Or make it so you can buy skills at double the gold cost without a skill point...

Or anything to reduce the grind on this...

And no it is not acceptable to create multiple chars to get them through the game for the sole purpose of unlocking skills when you are limited to 4 slots...

This count is of course AFTER the skill point missions, the ones from leveling, and assuming you get all your skills from quests before you start buying them otherwise closer to 6,000,000 exp...

I have not found the "skill point grind" to be that bad. On my primary character, I recklessly spent skill points. And now, I have all but 2 monk skills unlocked (I have to get, oh no!!, 2 skill points and cap sigs), and I am already 9/10 of the way to getting the first out of 2.

If you're worried about character slots, only play one skill unlocking character at a time or delete the old ones.

Your post was more just ranting and raving than an actual suggestion...you just basically said "do anything"

Do anything because their is so much they COULD do to fix this..

If you have all 300 skills for your character you either have 10k fame, or 850,000 exp

Skill points are a bad idea all together. Just throw them out. Like you did skill gems, which were great, and even minor things like rank sticks. Why must we keep the bad stuff and say goodbye to the good stuff forever? Skill points suck.

you don´t get skillpoints for ranks anymore.

my 1st char has about 390k xp and will need roughly another 500k to unlock all skills :/

my 2nd char is atm only at 280k xp, so his way is even longer.

and i don´t dare to think about my 3rd char that is only lvl 9 because i`m so sick of pvm ...

Are people just putting their fingers in their ears, closing their eyes and singing at the top of their voice when they read the game updates page?

It is quite clear that A.net is working on this 'grind', because people whined so much they're ruining the game forums..have some patience.

Just stop moaning now, I think we've heard what is 'wrong' with the game already..so come up with some decent suggestions to fix it. (And I don't mean your comment of 'do anything to fix the grind!')

A greater variety of repeatable high level quests, in particular having some outside of UW and Fissure of Woe, would help a great deal.

I've got 475,000 xp and 29 skills to gain. I don't mind the grind because i don't think about it. I just go my merry way and if i get a skill, great, if not then i'm not bothered.
My character is fine the way it is.

I suppose if you are trying really hard to get them for PvP, then i can see why you want to hurry it up.

Just take a step back, play missions with friends, go on hunts and adventures...the skill points add up and so too will your skills when you take a SoC on every trip.
Set your goals lower and enjoy the game.

Oh yes, this is a good idea. A random quest NPC generator. Give all PvE people/grinders something to do.

What the hell? DO you WORK for A.Net or something... that Jedi Mind crap don't work on us....

I think some people are trying to "get all the skills" like it's some sort of prerequisite to PvP or something. Maybe BWE players feeling UAS withdrawal?

Surely the important thing is to have the skills YOU WANT when you want it? If that's the case, rather than grinding xp, why not create a W/Mo (or some other easily PVE'd character), get the 8 skills you need for easy pve'ing via quests, and then Ascend him, and do the class change quests? You'd have racked up quite a few skill points with far less time investment than grinding XP. And then, rather than going off and trying to buy every single skill, buy the skills you need, when you need them. Pick a team build, and stick with it. If the metagame changes, figure out what you want, and go and buy just those skills.

The only thing you don't have is the ability to rapidly try different and wildly varying builds, across a large number of classes. Whether it would be really good to have that or not is something that can be argued, I guess.

she makes a lot of sense

play the game for fun and the other stuff will happen

if you havent noticed A net is making steady careful steps to address the *problem* and it may be months before most of the *fixes* have been implimented

play it
enjoy what you have now
anticipate each weeks update and be hopefully happy with most of each update

How about this? Make the capture signets free? That way, you'd get more skill points to spend on your skills that you need.

And maybe not free, since people could spam their skillbook with signets, but maybe have the captured skill just move the signet to your skillbook and bring the newly aquired skill into your bar so you could reuse it?

And since some people (like me) have bought about a dozen capture signets just to have them handy, find a way for us to give them back for a skill point that we spent.

OK, you play the PvE part of the game for 3 reasons:

1.) To learn how to use your skills.
2.) To learn which skills you best fit your style of play.
3.) To unlock upgrade items.

Item "grind" is finally a thing of the past, runes and items are dropping at a great rate if you play the missions and explore high level EAs.

I fail to see how ANYONE needs 300 skills for their playing style. If you can not come up with a winning build and strat with 50 skills then maybe you are approaching the problem from the wrong direction. Perhaps your tactics are flawed, or maybe you need better communication, or teamwork. Skills are important, but BEING SKILLED is what get's you the win. In order to become skilled, you have to take a long hard look at your failures, accept them, learn from them, and move on. Saying to yourself "If I only had 'X' skill and 'Y' item I would have won" is a is not only wrong, it will prolong your frustration.

So instead of trying to change the game by complaining about how you want it all handed to you on a platter, change the game by changing how you play it.



Lazarus

unlocking all ur skills is pretty much worthless. even if u use a pvp character ur skills u gonna pick are gonna be pretty much the same as your quest character.

What no skill points for ranks anymore when did they change this?

Unlocking all skills got easier for newer players. For those of us who have already received the quest reward from ascension (which was nothing before this update unless you were less than level 20) you'll probably find that the new skill quests they introduced won't give you any skills as you've probably already bought them (they introduced 3 new ones in North Gate of Kryta, Silverwood, Temple of the Ages).

Basically what I've worked out is, you can pretty much clear the game without wasting skill points on skills that you can earn through quests to about 120-130 out of 150. With a bit more grinding on levels you can finish the rest at around 600k exp, which isn't too bad. I've done all the exploring of maps (nearly, barring a few old places in Kryta north east of druid's overlook), completed all quests/bonus missions and I've got around 470k exp.

All they really need to do is just add a few skill quests near the end game for those southern shiverpeak skill-sets. About 5 of these quests would probably make unlocking fairly easy and reward players for not rushing and actually exploring parts of the Shiverpeaks for these quests rather than just pumping through missions without paying attention to places like Fisherman's Haven etc that offer these skill quests. How about some quests in Granite citadel and Marhan's grotto? At least as a purpose to explore Mineral Springs other than just capturing elites.

Ok, first thing's first.

Quests which give skills don't cost skill points. Of this I am fairly certain. These quests are fairly common, actually, tend to be on the easy side, and often give some of the best skills. That right there mitigates the value of skill points somewhat.

Now, I'm been play three PvE characters pretty much since the game came out. My E/Mo has finished all the missions, my W/R is level 15 and has gotten a little bit past Lion's Arch, and my N/R is level 10 and just reached Yak's Bend. I have never had a problem with skill points for any of these characters; frankly, they might as well not exist for all I care. IMX, you find far fewer skill trainers than you gain skill points such that I can easily afford to get most, if not all, of those skills, although usually I just buy the ones that look good and make a mental note where to find the other ones for later.

There's only 150 total skills for my mesmer/monk. I don't know where you pulled 300 skills from unless you mean to add every skill that other classes have to add to the completion of a character and even then it isn't even close to 300 as a total it's like 450 or close to it. Some classes have more skills than others like Monks have 76 skills and Mesmers have 74, Monks also have one more elite to choose from.

how is it 850k xp to get 300 skills? dont forget about the skills you start with, the skills you earn through quests, and every level from 1-20 got you a skill point. once you get to a city do you buy all the skills the skill trainer offers? maybe thats how u ran out of skill points, as i can see no other way (not inculding getting 100+ capture signets)

Ok this is crap, there is no "grind". I am tired of you PvPers complaining about this. If you would do this then it kinda screws the PvEers. The whole point for PvEers is to unlock new items and skills. You just can't please everyone. The majority of the GW gamers don't believe there is a "grind" so stop wasting Anet's time. They could be doing much better things than working on this crap. Stop whining and suck it up. If you don't like it go play your little WoW crap.

Are you as arrogant in real life or only to people who are halfway accross the world?
If you have nothing constructive to offer, don't post.

actually good point i was just a thinknig about the whole 150 x2 for the x/x class but its 75x2
at any rate its still 850k for those of us who have completed the game prior to the extra quests... for those who get the extra quests its down a WHOOPING 200k or so... whichi s a REAL difference (as each quest for 2 skills = 40k later on...)

Just a stupid I've worked the last 12 days in a row I get to work the next 6 and math ceases to become my friend this way...

the 850k stands

850k? hmm after only 1mth im halfway-ish to unlocking all the skills for my Emo? Sweet!

took me nearly 2years to "clock" Muglobal (max out that acc/s)

Trully dun understand your complaint? you want to unlock everything & then get bored within a cpl days spamming them in pvp? i like hunting for elites & having not bought a heap of silly npc skills i have 16+sp in reserve , 5 captures w8ing to catch & a beautiful list of Skills available to play with , of course i could go back to all the npcs & buy the skills i havent unlocked which would leave me with prolly 2-3 sp left , but that would be to easy & most likely leave me without sp to catch more elites & seriously , does the game need to get any easier for you ?

Just keep buying the npc skills & skipping the quests Then cry youve no more skill points till they give you more..

i like having Something to work at... would a cheat code be easier for you , thisguy there?

Guild Wars has Grind, but it only becomes apparent after 100 hour or so play.
Yes I am a PvE player, not PvP. PvP bores me.
After Ascention, you finish off any quests you haven't finished, capture elites, use up skill points. Then you are left with nothing to do except PvP which is actually one of the main thrusts of the game.
At theis point you can start again, play a different class's and the quests will actually change abit, and you will does exactly the same again. Once you have done this 3x you have effectively inlocked every skill, each class, and explored every area 10x atleast.
Now some would agrue that is playing the game, which is true, but say you have done the game 3x already, what else is there? You can go out and learn more skills and change you secondary proffessions, it is at this point there is "grind". Many compare at this point to game xyz where it took 2 years to cap character, and GW took 2 months, there is no grind. This is where the actually gameplay differences come into light.
Games that take 2 years differ from GW, they prolong gameplay giving you 100 levels to gain, they have unbalanced PvP, but for PvE they actually drip feed players a constant supply of rewards, upgrades, new better armours, weapons, etc etc which is the addiction of these type of games. Guild Wars doesn't once you have the 100 hours behind you all that is left is changing proffession, skill hunt for skills you will probably never use, perhaps buy armour that looks prettier (no other benefit). This is the TRUE "Grind" of Guild Wars. Whan you play a MP FPS you play the same maps 100x and don't get bored as you are playing humans and that makes it different.
When you play MMORPG in 100 hours you have generally not touched the amount of content there is, only explore 5-10 % of the game world.
100 hours is awesome for a single player RPG, but poor for a Online one.
PvP is the main thrust of Guild Wars and if you are looking for pure PvE heaven Guild Wars in it current state just isn't what you are looking for.

Could they sort it, yes they probably could, but it would take a major reworking, It would require, PvE items being seperate from PvP. They could actually allow for level increases in the PvE game, but have "Glint" the powerful Dragon or the Gods who watch over the HoH enforce level 20 cap for pvp, i.e. Once you enter a guild match, even if you are lvl 200 you are capped down to lvl 20 with standardised armours.
Is it likely to happpen, probably not as what you are asking for is a basic rewrite of the game.

Guild Wars will never appeal to all types of players it is a simple as that, there is no PvP vs PvE arguement, only bickering because the game isn't what x player thinks it should be, or y player thinks this when they have only actually played it for a week. Guild Wars is what it is no more no less, they are changing things as they go, and the game is evolving. Perphaps in 12 months the game may be like what player x wants, but it takes time. There is no monthly which is the beauty of the game, you can leave play x other games and come back in x amount of time and see what has happen, see how the game has evolved and more than likely explore new areas.

Be VERY VERY carefull with how and why you are doing skill point farming... this CAN and DOES currently trigger certain flags at ArenaNet to monitor your account. After much contact over this issue with NCSoft directly, I have been assured they will not be banning for this issue any longer (after all the key one was fixed), only those using the Disconnect method... But you never know when they are going to change their minds again and make this something that they feel is against their RoC...

Wow Stone Echo your quite the whiner eh?

I've got well over 200 hours put into this game between my characters you?

And I shall copy your 'Nubbish' speak and parrot it back to you well as much as I can stand at any rate.

'Trully dun understand your complaint?' you want to spend thousands of hours doing the same task over and over and over again to 'earn' one extra skill ? Wow AMAZING your the most brilliant person to have ever managed to lock 1000 monkeys in a room working on 1000 computers.

As for your next nubbish argument... I have done all the quests, literally, I did not stop to buy things until after the quests were all clear... They need to make it so that if you already have a skill with the newly implemented quests that it refunds you the skill point. 95% of us gain no benefit from these newly created quests.

'i like having Something to work at...' would you like to work in a place like china where they quite honestly have had (in the past) work camps where you dig a hole, after the hole is dug, you get moved to site B, at site B another work group fills in a hole, when that is done they move to site A. Work for the sake of Work is Work it is not fun.

When you take a game and make anything repetative it squashes fun.

Grinding = Working a lot for little to no benefit. Often doing the same task over and over again. And can never be called fun. Unless your some obsessive compulsive disorder individual who checks to see if their stove is off 40 times before they can leave their house. And then who spends 10 minutes at the door making sure it is locked. Unless repeatitive actions bring you some sense of peace and focus you should agree with me.

You see several games have 'Busy Work' such as cut the tree for the log of wood sometimes you get some sap or something rare.

This game has level up endlessly achieving a small bonus whenever you do.

As it stands this is one of the top 5 major flaws with a game which brags about its grindlessness.

Right, because most MMOs expect you to spend at least 300 hours mining, 200 hours cutting wood, 400 hours killing low-level monsters to level up, 1,000 hours walking between towns and/or back to your body when you die to retrieve your stuff, and 100 hours having fun. Wheras GW cuts out 1,900 of those hours and leaves you with the part that's actually fun.

1. Go to Underworld
2. Clear a bunch of ataxes and grapsing darknesses
3. Complete the first quest and escort of souls to earn 15,000 exp (plus kills)
4. Repeat

850k exp is a bogus number. You get a skill point for every mission, you get free skills from quests, and you got loads of exp for ascension/ToA zones.

DOOH,"lets not look at the whole picture and just that bit in the corner" posts.

The comparison you have just made is like saying cheese and beef are the same because they come from a cow.
They are different types of gameplay. You will also find thet MMORPG's don't force you to chop wood etc to get that uber item, if thats what you want to do do that.
Yes they do have lots of killing monsters, so does GW, they have fedex quests, so does guild wars. The have different deathpens depending on which one you play, GW's Deathpen is nothing, I suppose the only way people will understand is if they can compare to something else.

If GW was a racing game it would Be OutRun in the Arcade, where as EQ1 & 2, WOW,AO, Linage 1 & 2 would be Hardcore Formular 1 simulators. Both racing, both attract different types of players.

Exactly, but for those who chopping that tree in other MMORPG's there is a reward, the reward is they get the wood to make a table , to sell to others / or decorate their online home. Not all people find that interesting, but alot of people find reading boring these days too, but there is nothing wrong with it.

Thats not a viable option for everyone though.
I for one couldn't do it unless in a pick up group, and from what has been said about those places is very risky and can be very expensive.
I'm also on the european server and than means favour of the god's is not an everyday occurrance.
Anyway they are taking steps to sort it, the xp scrolls trade should take the edge off things.

Dude thats the whole idea of an online game. You are supposed to play with others. As for being risky, yes thats whats fun about it if you would play this area it wouldn't be a grind because you are having fun working as a team and even though you may not get through it all you still get exp even if you die or quit. The grind is not in GW, the grind is in lazy people's minds that don't feel like being social and playing with others to complete a hard task, they just want to be reculses and play with henchmen.

I know that , and I have also been there, without a monk with at least spirit of protect you are dead in seconds. In a good group yes it is fun, but still expensive if the group isn't on the ball. Online playing is also about social interaction, and there are many posts about that. I have been playing online RPG's for the past 5 years. I even designed an online world for NWN. Which has been taken out in one weekend, the server over heated. (was on a free t1 hosted in London, looks like servers gone for good now, well atleast the free one.) Then guy who set up the forums also set up another website and seems to have missed a payment and the forums are down also. Good job is wasn't a pay to play game.
Shatterlands of Algia ( the forums will probably be back up later this week. )

Just curious, why is this not acceptable? You will never learn the skills well if you don't play the profession as a primary.

My point exactly. As such, comparing the number of hours of gameplay it offers to that of other online games is invalid and/or meaningless.

A: Underworld.

B: Cry more noob... you know NOTHING about grinding if you're complaining about 850k xp. I'd love to see what people like you think of grinding say a Jedi... lol. You'd have a heart attack.

This thread has become yet another grind/nogrind war.
I see no useful suggestion for a better PvP unlocking.