Thanks Rune Trader!

Qi Ang

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

The whole Rune Trader situation lessens the excitement of having Uncommon and Rare drops. I used to get excited whenever I would pick up a purple or gold armor drop... Now the whole experience seems kind of pointless. It's like playing a FPS where you get all of your weapons in the first stage, you have nothing to look forward to later in the game.

Sure prices got rediculous, and people complained about having to pay over 20K for a superior rune... But I can guarantee they weren't complaining when they FOUND a superior rune and sold it for just as much.

Great Gjl

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qi Ang
Now the whole experience seems kind of pointless. It's like playing a FPS where you get all of your weapons in the first stage, you have nothing to look forward to later in the game.
I don't play video games for 'fulfillment' (wow, what a pathetic notion) or 'achievement.' I play them for fun, and I think that's the whole point of a video game. If the only time you are having fun in this game is when a rune drops, then I do pity you for continuing to play it, or even playing FOR it.

I don't want to look forward to having fun, I want to be having fun while I'm playing.

Sekkira

Sekkira

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2005

Canberra, AU

I'm a bit of two minds with the rune trader. It introduced a lot of good into the game, it also detracted away from the game as well.

... And that's all I really have to say without repeating everything that has been said before...

sPaM

Sekkira

Sekkira

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2005

Canberra, AU

Quote:
Originally Posted by Great Gjl
I don't play video games for 'fulfillment' (wow, what a pathetic notion) or 'achievement.' I play them for fun, and I think that's the whole point of a video game. If the only time you are having fun in this game is when a rune drops, then I do pity you for continuing to play it, or even playing FOR it.

I don't want to look forward to having fun, I want to be having fun while I'm playing.
But isn't fun a fulfillment and isn't it an achievement aswell?

Algren Cole

Algren Cole

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Great Gjl
Actually, I don't give a crap about PvE in this game and pretty much bought it solely for PvP. I'm in the 'I only play PvE because I have to' camp, but way to go making another baseless assumption.

Since we're being pedantic, I'd like to point out I said 'bad grammar and spelling', and not 'bad grammar and poor spelling,' and that I wasn't referring to just the two spelling mistakes you pointed out. It's also 'your' opinion, not 'you're.' See? I can write pointless shit too.

ya...I really don't have time for upset PvPers...I'm sorry that I find "point, click, wait for them to die" pointless...I'm sorry that I don't agree with you in that this game is even worth it as PvP....though that's not really enough reason to pontificate...play the game the way you want to....it doesn't affect me in any way...arguing over spelling and grammar means you've got nothing of value to contribute...other than the fact that you're obviously upset about my not liking the PvP aspect of this game.

Aug

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

Maryland

Mo/

Achievement is a source of fun for many players. Myself included. The rune trader did nothing to diminish my sense of achievement. I still want every Superior rune unlocked, and the rune trader can't do that for me. I paid 25,000 gold for a Superior Monk unidentified rune this morning. Rune prices are still quite high, if you don't unlock them yourself.

Algren Cole

Algren Cole

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aug
Algren - it's obvious you know as much about programming and software development processes as you do economics. Just stop typing while you're ahead

why you feel the need to throw personal insults into a converation about a video game befuddles me...I'm not as tactless enough to do the same. Though I surely hope it helped you feel better about yourself.

Great Gjl

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Algren Cole
ya...I really don't have time for upset PvPers...I'm sorry that I find "point, click, wait for them to die" pointless...I'm sorry that I don't agree with you in that this game is even worth it as PvP....though that's not really enough reason to pontificate...play the game the way you want to....it doesn't affect me in any way...arguing over spelling and grammar means you've got nothing of value to contribute...other than the fact that you're obviously upset about my not liking the PvP aspect of this game.
Read my first post.

Actually, I was arguing over spelling and grammar because I thought that was the only thing worth arguing about in that post of yours about 'The basis for my entire argument as to why ArenaNet is a company that is doomed to fail.'

Quote:
"point, click, wait for them to die"
I don't see how that's any different from PvE...Either way, I really don't give a crap. You're the one who brought the whole PvP/PvE thing into this anyway. If I've come across as upset to you, then amuses me even more.

Quote:
But isn't fun a fulfillment and isn't it an achievement aswell?
I meant fulfillment in the sense of achieving something. I need to spend more time posting these things. =/

Algren Cole

Algren Cole

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Great Gjl
Read my first post.

Actually, I was arguing over spelling and grammar because I thought that was the only thing worth arguing about in that post of yours about 'The basis for my entire argument as to why ArenaNet is a company that is doomed to fail.'

k...argument noted.

Deagol

Deagol

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2005

Denmark

Sigh! Some runes are "worth" 25g because the supply (number of drops) is larger than the demand (number of players with builds that would benefit from them). They are actually not even worth 25g, it is just the fixed minimum price.

The rune trader has nothing to do with that, it is just market economics. All the rune trader did was to make the market more efficient. Previously, you could sometimes buy for less or sell for more than the market price, because many players find killing monsters more fun than trading in the spam market.

The only losers to the rune trader are those who find the spam market fun, they can no longer take advantage of the impatience of those who find it boring.

Anyone else who think the rune price is too low or too high should petition ArenaNet to change the number of rune drops, rather than remove the trader.

Dreamsmith

Dreamsmith

Elite Guru

Join Date: Feb 2005

Minnesota

Beguine Guild [BGN]

It's funny that people complain about the need to trade by spamming the trade channel, and ask for ArenaNet to implement some way for game assisted trading, but when they do it, people complain about it.

This is going to happen with any system of trading other than "go to Lion's Arch and spam". With the rune trader, I go to a city and sell what I want, and someone else goes to a city and buys what I sold, and the trader takes a cut. The only real difference between now and before is we don't have to both be in the same city and district at the same time, and a cut of the transaction is dropping in the pockets of the trader who helped facilitate our trade. Well, that and one other thing: it's made trading runes a lot easier, which is actually the big change.

In any system where the game assists people in trading, it's going to make trading easier and more common. When more trading occurs between more people, prices are going to more accurately reflect real value. Most people aren't willing to pay 50 HP for a +2 when they can get a +3 for 75HP, thus major runes aren't worth very much -- minor runes are frequently worth more, as shown in Sekkira's screenshot. This isn't a problem with the rune trader, it's an accurate reflection of the real value of these items. ANY system that aids players in trading is going to have this kind of result, if it actually works in making trading easier for players.

Make trading easy, and very quickly, the real value of things will become apparent. If you then find the prices odd, well, that says something about the game and items in question, their actual rarity and usefulness. It's not a defect in the trade system, just perhaps in the game itself.

Creston

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

Quote:
Most people aren't willing to pay 50 HP for a +2 when they can get a +3 for 75HP, thus major runes aren't worth very much
Agreed. But isn't this a flaw in the system to begin with? We're now SEEING what the real value of runes is. And that is that 90+% of the runes are completely worthless, because nobody is buying them.

Well, except for the occasional peep here or there who likes the major runes, but in general, all the runes that are at 25 gold are just considered "worthless" by the very very very large majority of players. Because otherwise they would sell better.

So isn't this indicative that the rune system ITSELF maybe needs a bit of an overhaul? We have this cool stuff that we can craft into our armor, but nobody is using it beyond minor runes and the occasional Superior. It seems kind of a waste of what COULD be a really cool system to boost character power. I understand that in PvP that won't matter much, but in PvE it makes for a nice upgrade ability for your character that just doesn't seem to be used a lot right now. Which is a shame, imo. There should be a slow progression from minor to major to superior runes. Not just "create character, go to Old Ascalon, buy 1 superior, four minors, forget about runes for the rest of the game."



Creston

Algren Cole

Algren Cole

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Creston
Agreed. But isn't this a flaw in the system to begin with? We're now SEEING what the real value of runes is. And that is that 90+% of the runes are completely worthless, because nobody is buying them.

Well, except for the occasional peep here or there who likes the major runes, but in general, all the runes that are at 25 gold are just considered "worthless" by the very very very large majority of players. Because otherwise they would sell better.

So isn't this indicative that the rune system ITSELF maybe needs a bit of an overhaul? We have this cool stuff that we can craft into our armor, but nobody is using it beyond minor runes and the occasional Superior. It seems kind of a waste of what COULD be a really cool system to boost character power. I understand that in PvP that won't matter much, but in PvE it makes for a nice upgrade ability for your character that just doesn't seem to be used a lot right now. Which is a shame, imo. There should be a slow progression from minor to major to superior runes. Not just "create character, go to Old Ascalon, buy 1 superior, four minors, forget about runes for the rest of the game."



Creston
Thank you Creston

Dreamsmith

Dreamsmith

Elite Guru

Join Date: Feb 2005

Minnesota

Beguine Guild [BGN]

Creston: Yes and no. Well, largely yes. Major runes need some love from the developers, since no matter how you slice it, they're the least valuable type of rune. Regardless of whether you think it's worth giving up HP for attribute points, you'd rather have either a minor or a superior than a major. Even with majors being rarer, the demand for them is rarer still.

OTOH, you can't simply take any differences in prices as being a sign of game problems. Take for example the prices of minor runes of various classes. The average price of a mesmer rune is less than the average price of a warrior rune. Something would be wrong with the trading system if that wasn't the case. Think about it. Look around any city. How many mesmers do you see compared to how many warriors?

If you want proof of how wildly unrealistic prices of runes were before the trader, just look at how most any minor rune would sell for 300-500gp. This despite the fact that runes drop in equal quantities, so the number of warrior runes droped in a given hour is probably smaller than the number of warriors that would like one, whereas the number of mesmer runes that drop in a given hour is probably greater than the number of mesmers in the game. A mesmer rune should be dirt cheap compared to a warrior rune of the same quality, simply based on population vs. drop rates. That's not a symptom of poorly balanced runes, it's simply supply and demand.

Now, one could argue that maybe that reflects a class balance issue, but ultimately, certain classes are always going to be more popular than others. Warriors will always be popular, it'd be damn near impossible to nerf them into oblivion, they're such a role-playing staple. Likewise, elementalists will probably always be more popular than mesmers, and fire will be more popular than air, no matter how much more powerful air is than fire. There's too many pyromaniacs in the population for purely pragmatic concerns to overwhelm basic human nature. The game would have to be imbalanced in order to bring balance to class populations. In a perfectly balanced game, certain classes will be more popular than others, and thus even in a perfectly balanced game, there will be significant price differences between various runes. Fire runes will be worth more because fire is more popular, not because it's more powerful. You get the idea.

So, yes, price differential can and sometimes does indicate a game problem, but other times it's just an accurate reflection of the game population and preferences that exist irregardless of game balance issues.

burianek

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

X Universe

Agreed, apart from the Major runes, which nobody currently loves, supply and demand is kind of out of the power of the devs.
As to the topic of how the rune trader killed rune prices for farmers, the new patch fixes this by making runes 100% salvagable from monster armor. Don't id the rune before you salvage it and it will be worth much more.

Aug

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

Maryland

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Algren Cole
why you feel the need to throw personal insults into a converation about a video game befuddles me...I'm not as tactless enough to do the same. Though I surely hope it helped you feel better about yourself.
Yes, your statement likening A.Net's programming capabilities to those of fresh college graduates was so very tactful Especially with such solid reasoning as "the developers eliminated my ability to price gouge newbs! they didn't think about my economic welfare!"

This whole thread boils down to people who want to be able to make money at other player's expense due to the poor in-game player trade system. It has nothing to do with programming abilities, nor can you draw any conclusions upon A.Net's change control management. So just stop trying to make those evaluations/judgements.

The value/viability of Major runes has little to do with Rune Traders, and really deserves a thread of its own. I agree that Major runes are imbalanced, but the Trader's existance doesn't impact that in any way.

Qi Ang

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Great Gjl
I don't play video games for 'fulfillment' (wow, what a pathetic notion) or 'achievement.' I play them for fun, and I think that's the whole point of a video game. If the only time you are having fun in this game is when a rune drops, then I do pity you for continuing to play it, or even playing FOR it.

I don't want to look forward to having fun, I want to be having fun while I'm playing.
So you're one of those kids who puts in the God codes immediately in a game and just run through killing everything quickly and laughing? I pity YOU, then...

Algren Cole

Algren Cole

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aug
Yes, your statement likening A.Net's programming capabilities to those of fresh college graduates was so very tactful Especially with such solid reasoning as "the developers eliminated my ability to price gouge newbs! they didn't think about my economic welfare!"

This whole thread boils down to people who want to be able to make money at other player's expense due to the poor in-game player trade system. It has nothing to do with programming abilities, nor can you draw any conclusions upon A.Net's change control management. So just stop trying to make those evaluations/judgements.
actually...I gave all 10 of those runes away to new players...as I did with my max dmg Gold fiery rams hammer, and my Purple Storm bow...I'm NOT trying to take advantage of players...or price gouge. Implementation of a feature that destroys gameplay...and does NOTHING to offset the economic market for which is was introduced...is poor scope analysis...

Creston

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamsmith
Creston: Yes and no. Well, largely yes. Major runes need some love from the developers, since no matter how you slice it, they're the least valuable type of rune....snipped for length
Good post, and I agree. I have no problem, personally, with the minor runes and their prices. It's the major and superior runes that I find annoying, since their worth is zero (apart from the very very few that are actually in demand).
I found a superior illusion magic rune, and it sold for 25 gold. For a drop THAT rare, the price really should be higher, which is why I'd recommend a minimum plateau for runes. Maybe say 1K for major (which need an overhaul any way you slice it) and 2K for superior. On the other hand, that would just be fixing a symptom, where the actual cause is just a poorly conceived rune system in itself, and it's not the rune trader's fault.

(Btw, this still doesn't explain the issue I came across in a thread I posted yesterday, where a buddy goes to the rune trader, gets 600 gold for his minor energy storage, and I go to the rune trader 2 minutes later, and the same rune fetches 25 gold.

THAT actually seems like a bug to me. I can't imagine that someone went in and bought 50 energy storages in 2 minutes to make the price fluctuate that wildly. )

But I agree, supply and demand works well in the case of runes. It's just a clear sign of largely unrealised potential when so many runes are deemed worthless.

Creston

Aug

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

Maryland

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Algren Cole
actually...I gave all 10 of those runes away to new players...as I did with my max dmg Gold fiery rams hammer, and my Purple Storm bow...I'm NOT trying to take advantage of players...or price gouge. Implementation of a feature that destroys gameplay...and does NOTHING to offset the economic market for which is was introduced...is poor scope analysis...
The only people's game play it destroyed were those who loved to sit and work the player trade system. That's it. It benefited everyone else. I'm pretty sure the entrepreneur population segment is not the majority.

I believe your under the false assumption that YOUR idea of fun is the majority. I don't believe that's true. And maybe you should consider the fact that A.Net doesn't either, rather than that they failed to analyze the impact of their decision.

I'm quite sure A.Net knew that the market price on all minor and major runes would plummet. And they likely knew that the majority of superior runes would also be worth significantly less. And not only did they provide a way to actually guage rune values for the general public, but they also introduced a gold sink. The Rune Trader eats about 15% of every sale.

Creston

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aug
The Rune Trader eats about 15% of every sale.
I think it eats 500% actually?

25 buy value
125 sale value

Net result : 100 gold leaves the game.

I guess that'd be 400 percent.

Creston

Aug

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

Maryland

Mo/

That's only at the very bottom of the scale. If you look at the buy/sell differential on more valuable runes, like Superior Fire, Absorption, or Vigor, you'll see the sink is not 400%, but closer to 10-15%.

Algren Cole

Algren Cole

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aug
The only people's game play it destroyed were those who loved to sit and work the player trade system. That's it. It benefited everyone else. I'm pretty sure the entrepreneur population segment is not the majority.

I believe your under the false assumption that YOUR idea of fun is the majority. I don't believe that's true. And maybe you should consider the fact that A.Net doesn't either, rather than that they failed to analyze the impact of their decision.

I'm quite sure A.Net knew that the market price on all minor and major runes would plummet. And they likely knew that the majority of superior runes would also be worth significantly less. And not only did they provide a way to actually guage rune values for the general public, but they also introduced a gold sink. The Rune Trader eats about 15% of every sale.

the rune trader takes roughly 18 gold for every 125 gold sale...that's an incredibly effective gold sink when you consider people have enough gold to pay 60K for a bow...the rune trader would need to sell 3,333 runes just to take the 60K one person spends on a bow out of the economy...and that seems effective to you?

Creston

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aug
That's only at the very bottom of the scale. If you look at the buy/sell differential on more valuable runes, like Superior Fire, Absorption, or Vigor, you'll see the sink is not 400%, but closer to 10-15%.
Oh okay, I didn't know those prices offhand.

Creston

arnansnow

arnansnow

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2005

DOOM

E/N

I've sold a major absorbtion rune for 4k and I looked at the buying price: 5K
that's around 25%, i think the percent different changes depending on how much it costs to buy

Aug

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

Maryland

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Algren Cole
the rune trader takes roughly 18 gold for every 125 gold sale...that's an incredibly effective gold sink when you consider people have enough gold to pay 60K for a bow...the rune trader would need to sell 3,333 runes just to take the 60K one person spends on a bow out of the economy...and that seems effective to you?
It would need to sell 3,333 of the least valuable runes, yes. It only needs to sell about 4 Superior Vigors or Absorptions to remove that much gold out of the system.

15% is a reasonable tax. You think it should've been higher? No one would use the Rune Traders if it consumed much more. There's already a fair number of people who try to undercut the rune trader at various times of the day, but still make more money than just selling directly to the trader.

Algren Cole

Algren Cole

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aug
It would need to sell 3,333 of the least valuable runes, yes. It only needs to sell about 4 Superior Vigors or Absorptions to remove that much gold out of the system.

15% is a reasonable tax. You think it should've been higher? No one would use the Rune Traders if it consumed much more. There's already a fair number of people who try to undercut the rune trader at various times of the day, but still make more money than just selling directly to the trader.

I don't use the Rune Trader...it takes away from my enjoyment of the PvE aspect of the game. Which is ofcourse a personal choice...to better my enjoyment of the game I spent 50 bucks on. 15% is higher than it should be....they can't just introduce a single aspect and expect it to fix the problem. The rune trader should be taking 5-7% and giving you MORE for your rune and selling them for MORE. Keep in mind...this is only for minor runes as it's the only thing I've looked at from the rune trader, as I don't use it. dropping less gold would be a good idea....I get so much gold just walking around outside of town that I do nothing with. I'm not about price gouging...i'm about getting a fair price for the items i've found...and at this point that's not possible from the rune trader. I wanted to sell those 10 runes for 450 gold...which would have been 45g a piece...and yet it's impossible to do because people don't need to anymore. I ended up just giving them away to the first person in Ascalon City to find me.(atleast I had some fun playing hide and seek ) I don't want 60K for my Gold Fiery Ram's Hammer....I want 4K, and I don't want 100K for my Max Dmg Storm Bow...I want 3K...I'm not looking to benefit from other players...I'm looking to enjoy the game the way it was supposed to be enjoyed....and right now ther isn't(and I don't foresee in the near future) any way to do that. It's honestly not even worth your time to keep runes in your inventory. I unlock them...then throw them on the ground so I can keep more enchanted loadstones.

Enchanted Loadstones are worth the same as Minor Runes....something is wrong with a game with things like this start happening. That's like seeing your shoe laces worth as much as your coat.

Aug

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

Maryland

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Algren Cole
I don't use the Rune Trader...it takes away from my enjoyment of the PvE aspect of the game. Which is ofcourse a personal choice...to better my enjoyment of the game I spent 50 bucks on. 15% is higher than it should be....they can't just introduce a single aspect and expect it to fix the problem. The rune trader should be taking 5-7% and giving you MORE for your rune and selling them for MORE. Keep in mind...this is only for minor runes as it's the only thing I've looked at from the rune trader, as I don't use it. dropping less gold would be a good idea....I get so much gold just walking around outside of town that I do nothing with.
Seems to me that A.Net didn't intend for the runes to be a rare commodity. You are still working under the assumption that runes are supposed to be rare. Did you read the box that the game came in? Or did you buy it online? If you read the box, you'd see a particularly important statement on it about how skill is the deciding factor, and not time invested or luck. Free and easy access to runes is part of that.
Quote:
I'm not about price gouging...i'm about getting a fair price for the items i've found...and at this point that's not possible from the rune trader. I wanted to sell those 10 runes for 450 gold...which would have been 45g a piece...and yet it's impossible to do because people don't need to anymore. I ended up just giving them away to the first person in Ascalon City to find me.(atleast I had some fun playing hide and seek )
45g is a fair price. However, as you've noted, gold is so abundant that people don't mind spending 125G at the Rune Trader. I know I'm not going to spend hours looking for someone that happened to store away a 45g minor rune, nor am I willing to spend hours of game time doing without said rune, just to save a measly 80 gold.

You need to realize that minor runes were meant to be abundant and cheap. Once you get past that, maybe you can let this issue go.
Quote:
I don't want 60K for my Gold Fiery Ram's Hammer....I want 4K, and I don't want 100K for my Max Dmg Storm Bow...I want 3K...I'm not looking to benefit from other players...I'm looking to enjoy the game the way it was supposed to be enjoyed....and right now ther isn't(and I don't foresee in the near future) any way to do that.
Nothing's stopping you from charging whatever you want for weapons right now. There is no weapons trader. However, just because an item is gold doesn't mean it's worth much. Most gold items are worth more to the merchant than to other players.
Quote:
It's honestly not even worth your time to keep runes in your inventory. I unlock them...then throw them on the ground so I can keep more enchanted loadstones.
Nope, it's not. You shouldn't salvage them out, if you don't plan to use them. Like I said, [minor] runes weren't meant to be rare. Major runes are significantly more rare, but no one wants them. And same goes for a lot of the Superior runes, as well. That's a problem with the rune system itself (their level of desirability), however, and not the traders.

Essentially it all boils down to A.Net wanting all runes to be more accessible. The game was marketed as largely item-independent. A.Net has just been a little slow about making the marketing copy a reality.

Apophis Jaan

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

Im all for the rune trader, I was getting sick of the rediculously high prices. Now there actually affordable, you know not everyone likes to spend 5 hours a day farming.

Barraind

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

Immortal Sacred Alliances [ISA]

Rune prices when sold to the trader seem to be based off the base buy price with a random variable determined by the actual physical item itself (the specific instance of the rune you possess in your bags). My 6 major soul reaping runes have been selling for 27, 34, 37, 46, 55, 62 gold, each time I check (takes ~10 seconds to do them all). Price is set by rune as well, where the same physical rune will ALWAYS be the lower priced rune, while a different rune will always be the higher priced, regardless of order checked in.

The current rune system via trader is b0rked, it needs a lot of tweaking.

Prices on the trader, outside a very small number runes, was never close to what fair value was before the trader. To claim that the old prices were "wrong" while the new prices are a-ok is idiotic.

Aug

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

Maryland

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barraind
Rune prices when sold to the trader seem to be based off the base buy price with a random variable determined by the actual physical item itself (the specific instance of the rune you possess in your bags). My 6 major soul reaping runes have been selling for 27, 34, 37, 46, 55, 62 gold, each time I check (takes ~10 seconds to do them all). Price is set by rune as well, where the same physical rune will ALWAYS be the lower priced rune, while a different rune will always be the higher priced, regardless of order checked in
I don't really understand. Are you saying that you take 6 of the same rune (Major Soul Reaping), and price check each one, without selling, and that the values go up? I've never witnessed this. Granted, I've never used a worthless rune in this scenario, but yesterday I sold 6 Minor Vigors. The prices went down, not up, the more I sold. And the prices varied based upon the time of day (300ish at the low point, and around 650ish at the high).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barraind
Prices on the trader, outside a very small number runes, was never close to what fair value was before the trader. To claim that the old prices were "wrong" while the new prices are a-ok is idiotic.
Why? Because you can't demand 5k from that one person out 500,000 that actually wants a Superior Beastmastery rune?

The prices ARE fair. The trader does not create runes out of thin air. His stock is directly correlated to who has sold to and purchased runes from him. Obviously runes you feel should be worth more are not in high demand. More people are willing to sell them to the vendor than are willing to buy them.

Prices on runes will only continue to drop as the game matures. As more and more people unlock runes, they will have no need for the rune traders for PvP characters. And due to the pain involved in respeccing an RP character, not to mention the limited storage space, most people will only have 1, maybe 2 sets of PvE clothing.

Rune prices will continue to approach the minimum value, because they are not a consumable item (partially untrue... you can fail to salvage a rune, but 'smart' people won't put expensive runes on equipment they're going to upgrade/salvage anyway).

The rune trader actually makes the game MORE accessible to new players. Without the rune traders, there is no way a new player would ever be able to purchase any Superior rune, because they'd always be in short supply (due to limited storage) and there'd always be people out there with TONS of money.

=HT=Ingram

=HT=Ingram

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2005

Anchorage Alaska

Haz Team [HT]

R/W

heck I dumped 20 Minor (from our guild) runes of fire, energy storage, and strength on the market just because I wanted to drive the buying price down for others... I didn't care one way or the other. Runes are for use not hoarding... Some leaches that do nothing but hog Ali the gold in the game were the problem to begin with. Play the game don't worry about your freak inflation market... Its all soon to be obsolete anyway. Beside there will always be some poor ignorant n00b you can sucker. Most of us feel we have had enough of it... Notice these stupid people are finally disappearing because no one is willing to pay ungodly amounts of gold for easy to obtain items... And it cuts the Big RealWorld markets out of the gaming community... Meaning those that were selling gold and full inventory accounts on e-bay in the last few weeks. not only were those accounts LOCKED OUT... but its now harder to acquire enough gold in a inventory to provide such accounts for sell. Personally I think its great for the gaming community because now we can get back to what really maters... going head to head in PvP and GvG... I haven't traded in a town in a month now. we do all our trades and commerce in our guild hall, or in private instances... No need to waste time in worthless town markets...

Zexion

Zexion

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2005

Warrior Nation [WN]

N/Me

I hate the rune traders.
Now they set a price people DEMAND for runes.
Heck, I could once sell a superior x rune for over 10k before the trader.
Now it's price is 1k!
Ridicilous!
Make the price balance around 100-200 for minor, 1k-2k for major and 5k-10k for superior, and I will love you Anet!

_Zexion

Algren Cole

Algren Cole

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aug



The prices ARE fair.
if you want to call 25g for a minor rune a fair price...then I should get as many rune drops as I do enchanted loadstones....and they should be able to stack. I should be able to go back to town/outpost with 30 minor runes to sell to the trader....otherwise something needs to be fixed. Shoelaces shouldn't cost the same as the shoe

Eclair

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2005

Well, the merchant doesn't create demand, it reflects demand. Before the rune trader i used to just sell the minors while they were still in the armor to the NPC, because it was a pain in the butt to find the 1/1000 people that might need one and pay maybe 50 gold more for it.

QTFsniper

QTFsniper

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

Rhode Island, USA

[UC] Uber Crew

N/Me

"stop loling at me" = "stop laughing out louding at me" uh huh....

Aug

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

Maryland

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Algren Cole
if you want to call 25g for a minor rune a fair price...then I should get as many rune drops as I do enchanted loadstones....and they should be able to stack. I should be able to go back to town/outpost with 30 minor runes to sell to the trader....otherwise something needs to be fixed. Shoelaces shouldn't cost the same as the shoe
Quit salvaging them. Sell them in the armor. You'll get more than 25G.