Why Pre-Searing Ascalon is a bad starter area.

This is actually why my guild has been contemplating tutoring lessons? The topic in debate (in my guild), is whether or not to ask/expect (not enforce) our guild members to spend a fair amount of time in Pre-Searing helping new members. Especially vital in the first few months when there will be a huge influx of new guild warrers. As the matter stands, they definitely need an attribute popup (or more of them) for new members... I've found too many in Post-Searing who haven't incremented any attribute yet. They didn't know anything about it. Their first char was an unforgettable experience to say the least.

Lansing Kai Don

P.S. But our guild is still very new and we're just setting stuff up (if you want to be a part of it PM me... our website builder isn't finished yet, so no website). In fact, we changed our name today to PeaceMakers from Hand Of Light. Think it was a good idea? I thought it was a little aggressive for our peaceful guild.

P.P.S. Forgot something, I agree with Ensign that something needs to be done. The encouraging solo is extremely scary (especially to well read GW's that don't know the limit cap of 2, and start thinking this is the teams?). I'd also like to see the more difficult areas nerfed, to encourage gameplayers to move on to Post-Searing... As it is I think too many ppl think Pre-Searing IS the game itself (I did when I started). And boy was I enlightened.

Oh well cc.pyro, who cares about you and your friends, I mean arena.net got their money right?...Oh wait, now it's important because it's YOU who is impacted... (AHEM!... )

The same reason anyone should care if it's 2 or 5 member teams in pre-searing is why they should care about how players feel about pre-searing.

Might I point out you appear to be looking at the initial release as a one time deal, well good for you but Arena.net can't look at the initial release for only it's sales and not delivering to the people who purchased if they wanna stay in business.

See, in the long run that I and many others see ourselves playing GuildWars for, though Arena.net got the money we're not better off, as those people will talk negatively about the 50 bucks they're out. Now of course this will not be a problem right? I mean, those expansions WILL be CHEAPER to make right?....Wait, we can't count on that huh? Maybe, but keep in mind the cost of the lastest and greatest tech, story writing, story continuity, look, feel, next cinematic, over-overtime think tanking the ways to implement the story, etc. and you might see the true cost of those people who weren't happy with the initial release of GuildWars formulated: The retail price of as many expansions as are planned on the day of the initial release multiplied by the same word of mouth that made the game sell) and then doubled because people tend to gripe more than appreciate. Now per expansion in a growing market if your market size stays the same your share decreases, this is not better for us.

cc.pyro, I guess I am saying the people you are witnessing post obviously care about the other players perceptions of pre-searing, maybe that'd be your que to care too, especially since voicing your own issue with the same area.

Feb BWE. YES I did. And for most part enjoyed it, even in hindsight.

The "skill trainer/ different options for which ones you get rather than forced on you idea" was something discussed a while back, and I do remember agreeing with Ensign on that point (and it should stay at zero skill points cost while explaining the future cost to you). Increasing party numbers?..If at all, no more than making it 3 instead of two. A warning about never getting to come back once you enter the academy (given by Tydus or the guards the first time they tell you about joining the army) might also be nice to have. If you do an introduction to mission play, I'd say keep it north of the wall because that is the harder and best hint of what you will see later.

I remember that event weekend talking to a lot of people who had previously played making both good and bad comments on the tutorial area.

I wouldn't change any more than what I said above. Most people having not played before; unlike us; are going to be better off with this bit of playground no pass or fail area. This isn't your typical game, and they need time to understand the environment and controls that are very different. It's quite competent the way it is. The only people that end up with the biggest problems are us "previously played characters" who have been through it one too many times; so to speak.

Leave about 90% of pre-sear alone. It needs to be simple for new people to understand the difference and throw old gaming beliefs away. The shock on academy entrance and finishing is a nice feature. It gives them a good wake up call that the game is starting now.

EDIT : should also note that unless you buy the eventual "Prima Guide" tag along..... the guide that comes in box will be the LORE compendium....while the actual gaming explanation guide will be on the Guilwars site..... Gaille said that. Which would be appropriate considering the game is an Entirely online game.

Lol, I ended up alone for the academy (well, the useless lvl 1? fighter got paired with me, Steven Baruch) and I was playing a Monk. Made it tough, trying to beat everything to death in HtH. Took a few tries and a lot of luring - I think it should PROBABLY differ based on what you are playing - was not easy with the skills I had to bring in. Monks should have more of a "keep this guy alive thing" than trying to kill, especially with someone as useless and the henchman who simply ran in and engaged anything.

Davion, nice post!

Okay, lets try this then. I don't really mind that it's only 2 because I am not a tool that didn't find out that I will eventually be able to have up to 8. I don't completely understand what you are getting at with the whole customer base thing, but I get the general gist of it. Wouldn't the people who don't like PSA go ahead and get on a forum and ask if this was what the rest of the game is like, or are they going to sit there and cry. Besides most people will continue playing until they get out of that part of the game anyway. I'm not trying to start anything here, so don't take offense to my post.

Heh. Actually if they didn't really like it, they would just go enter the academy; to see what that offers them; and find themselves in seared Ascalon. Opening up the whole new "ball of wax" for them anyways. And no, I didn't see offense; I was just giving up my thoughts because somebody asked for that " my first play was pre-sear's intro to the game" incite.

It's not that we don't think PSA was a good idea, it most definitely is. We're just saying that it needs improvement. Yes, we have no eventual say in what the dev's decide but we're lucky to have dev's that listen to the community. If they decide that they have time and look at it, then we're hoping that the suggestions we make are incorporated into their thought process. The customer base simply stated is, Draw as many as you can in, Keep them In for further revenue. In order to do that, you have to have great gameplay. To have great gameplay you need to know where improvement is needed. That's where the community comes from. Also, to expect people to come to forums for answers is a horrible expectation of people. People want the game to meet their ideas, otherwise it isn't worth playing to them. If they get the wrong idea of the game, you can't expect them to go around asking about it? If I played a game, and the gameplay wasn't what I was hoping for, there is little chance that I'd go to a forum to ask if its going to get better. Some do, but most don't they simply believe the gameplay was that way because they feared it was true (Wizard's First Rule... I left out the people are stupid part ).

Lansing Kai Don

cc.pyro hmmmm...(you have no idea how tempted i am to say "who cares" out of the shear laughter value of raw smartbutt sarcasm!) Wasn't intended as a "starting" something on my end, and it appears wasn't intended that way on your end sooooo, sorry man because...well...I care! (Signing out to enjoy personal hysteria, afk)

It's not that i dont care about the game quality. I just don't really care for people who dont take the time to completely look something over before they make a decision as to whether or not they like something. If the people who bought it cared anything about the 50$ they just spent they would take the time to see if it was worth it, not base their decision on the staging area of the game.

Amazing how subjectively you qualify them to have passed some test in spending their cash for you to care about them enough to talk about em in a thread where you are pointing out a problem with the same area for friends of yours who will have the game on release--meaning they bought it. You are talking for them, and yet want their concerns to be heard...hehehe

If the market wasn't an impulse purchase market i'd agree with you they don't deserve the concern, however it is an impulse purchase market mainly and this is Arena.net's premier product--their impulse to buy might be because they want to play it with a friend (sound familiar? ) and not because of the box color or other similiarly meaningless reason.

Dude you already care about these people in posting in this thread and caring about your friends!

Thanks for the discussion cc.pyro and all. My apologies if this post is way off point, however that is why I will make no further effort regarding the matter.

I agree, the academy certainly comes as a bit of a shock. When I went in, I had just barely turned level 3, and hadn't really completed the quests in pre-searing Ascalon, nor had I gotten a chance to explore the gorgeous terrain. I actually ended up going back and creating another character so that I could finish the quests and prepare myself a little better before entering the domain of Corporal Jerkoff.

It's actually been suggested a few times. Joining the Academy almost needs to be like any software "Licence Agreement", default to "NO". The fist time that it was up (I think February) I got caught in that trap as well and needed to start all over again with a new Char. just so as I could survive more than 3 Seconds outside the city.
Even after that in Mach, I still ran into people who wanted to get back to the Pre-Searing, and I had to unfortunately deliver the bad news. Some were fine with it and were over level 5, those at lower levels seemed to be doomed. It kind of goes back to the original idea of the post: The tutorial area needs some refinement. This way noob's can last better once they're past the Academy. The quests are fine to gain the basics of fighting, but there needs to be a few 4 player missions so that people learn how to work well with other players (Man, I feel like an elementary school teacher ).
I will give the tutorial a 2/5 for getting some of the basics, but it could still use some work

Well, for those who go into the Academy prematurely, there's options, now. If you didn't get your secondary, for example, there's outlets to get that in post-searing, as of last beta. I don't know if there's a way to get your Rez Signet if you'd missed it.

For PS as a starting area, actually, I think it's great. At levels 1-3, nobody's really ready to take on the Grawl or Stone Elementals and such beyond Ascalon's gates. You need that milder starting area to build up your character, and it's also a worthwhile way to sort out those L1-3s so they don't end up in an L7-10 PuG.

Mild? Yes. Boring? Possibly at points. But there are plenty of ways to indicate that there's more challenge to come. Particularily with comments made about (and any disclaimer at) the Academy.

Hi,

I have written around 30 articles on Guild Wars and generally do not go around telling/asking people to read them.

Today is different, I have a very serious concern about Pre-Searing Ascalon and I want YOU to help me change it by letting Arena Net know your opinions.

Find the article here.

http://www.gamesanalysis.com/games/g...ns/PreSear.php

Get Involved!

Good Gaming,

Isbot
[email protected]

I don't agree completely with your assessment of Pre-Searing Ascalon. But I will have to save that argument for another time. Homework calls.

I just wanted to reply to tell you how much I like the /question and /answer command idea you came up with. The only problem is you couldn't display the questions to everyone in the game... because then the chat window would scroll wayyyy to fast.

Perhaps just display the questions in your area... or have a new chat tab called questions/answers where players could go to ask questions... and while they are in there they could also answer a few that they know.

If ArenaNet likes this idea, they could hire a full-time position to sit in this chat area.

I think you complain too much.
but i do agree with you

While I agree with most of your points, overall I think that PS should be left alone. Other than maybe increasing party size, and forcing players to complete various tasks before entering the academy, the place is good enough for its purpose.

Could it be improved? Yes. However, it's simply too late for that and I'd rather see them focus their resources on more important parts of the game, like fixing bugs, making outposts more useful, and balancing (like soul reaping in pvp .

I had a friend try the game from scratch in the Korean beta and he was generally unimpressed with the game. He too lost interest in Pre-Sear and discovered all kinds of trouble with pathfinding, getting stuck on things. It was a difficult sell for me to encourage him beyond that. So the points that were raised in the article are certainly true in some cases. Still I think it depends on the individual. This person loves WoW for instance. We all know what that means without debating it. Simply he is coming from a typical MMO background and has not caught the vision of what GW offers.

On another note, I have seen other people turned off because they can't solo. They would rather not get into groups. So obviously GW doesn't suit their style as it based around community building. It goes to show that some people will never be satisfied. PS will probably be alright, though ArenaNet may lose some customers in the beginning, most people after buying the game will stick it through and see the value beyond.

You are a bit harsh here Nash, the pre-missions are there to show the new folks the classes, and how they work. This must be EXTREMELY interesting for a newbie. Much more fun than getting the 8 skill slots from the start, as it was before?