Arena.net... please don't perma-ban me

Right now I feel like the pudgy kid in the Goonies who spilled the beans on all of the bad things he's done in life just to not get killed. Due to the actions of last week to some players for using an exploit, I want to come clean with any unintended gameplay experiences that I have/will participate in. The first one is a BIG one that I just learned:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...10&postcount=9

Anyone who's read my anti PvP discrimination post in the Suggestions forum knows that there are many players (mostly PvP focused) who feel greatly restrained by not having their Attribute Refund points restored when entering a town. It greatly hampers our build creativity and I've been hoping for an easir solution than grind the 6,000 XP points needed to do so. According to the link I put up, there is an exploit that allows it. I have at least twelve super cool builds I want to test and tweak in the arenas, so I absolutely NEED this flexibility in attribute point distribution outside of actual PvP battles.

Guild Wars is flexible with professions in that you can eventually change your secondary as often as you wish in town. You aren't heavily penalized for wanting to experiment with classes (unless you want a new primary - then you have to grind through PvE many more times). Professions are nerfed without the right skills in place so Guild Wars is flexible in letting you change your skill sets in town. You aren't heavily penalized for wanting to experiment with skills.

However, this logic tree suddenly changes once you get to the heart of skills and professions... Attribute Point distribution. We are now severely penalized (as PvP players who completed PvE) when making drastic changes to our Att. points. It is NOT flexible, unlike skills and professions. Why be able to change skills a dozen times in a minute but not the points that support them more than once or twice?

With that in mind, I can't possibly believe that the developers intended to be flexible in only 2/3 of the major character components outside of battle. It is likely one of several oversights that they didn't necessarily plan on. Whether they change it soon or not is one thing, but for now I have a request from the powers that be:

Please don't perma-ban me for double switching my secondary to get back my refund points

I'm hurting no one, I'm not causing game imbalance, I'm not profiting from the action. I simply want to lose myself in PvP experimentation, understanding that even Thomas Edison failed in creating the lightbulb over 100 times before he got it to work. I want to make a 1,000 PvP lightbulbs in this awesome game eventually, and this is a major necessity in doing so.

Grinding out on the PvE farm for 6,000 XP points (remember, I've beaten the game and bonuses) each time I want to switch up my PvP ideas or needs is ludicrous. After PvE completion, a player should be able to play PvP without the need for PvE grinding, just like PvE players don't need to participate in PvP for their fun. If I don't read an official post saying otherwise (Gaile?), I'll assume you silently allow it for now.

It's is really weird to feel like on one hand you guys are so cool in your suppport and communication with us about GW, but on the other you have a virtual gun at our temples ready to pull the trigger if we make a slip up that offends you too much. Heavily exploiting the XP glitch on Augury Rock in one day warranted perma-ban, but rising in the official online Guild rankings exploiting the Monk skill glitches for over a week drew silence.

Both glitches repaired, but one group was banned, the other wasn't even though both greatly benefitted at the time (I daresay Guild Ranking is more important that XP anyway, but no action was done). I don't wish perma-ban on anyone who only use in-game mechanics to do something "unexpected", but I do understand the need for control from chaos.

So in an effort to keep my account character's head from being blown off by a perma-ban, I'll come clean with all my wrong doing, ask for clarification and hopefully survive another day. If I'm not here tomorrow fellow GW players, just tell my mother I loved her.

1. Double switching secondaries to allow a full return of Attribute Points outside of the main gameplay where it doesn't matter
   
2. Farming solo in open areas for testing Rambo builds for fun, to find loot, money and earn XP to get more Attribute Refund points
   
3. Selling private training sessions to willing students after each update (I've trained 30 or so, all happy and satisfied customers)
   
4. Repeatedly going to Collectors to trade for their items, then selling them on the open market for whatever people will pay (I say 'Make an offer' and get 20K+ in some instances).
   
5. Kiting (running away) with my Mes/Nec like a madman in arenas using Distortion (to evade), Illu. of Weakness (for 700 HP) and Plague Send (to get rid of conditions and Cripple). I've lasted almost an hour vs. three opponents in one of the four times I tried it. Absolutely hilarious to watch.
   
6. In third grade, I took three candy bars instead of one out of the teacher's reward box, despite her clear instructions.

Ahhh, now I feel better. Confession is good for the soul, and maybe others here will have their own similar admissions and questions. If any of these warrants a perma-ban or some other reprimand (is there any other?), I'd really, really like to know. Being put six feet under when you aren't sure what is considered especially offensive to you is not a fun feeling.

Thanks for the great game and hard work that you guys put into it.

Perma-ban!

Thomas Edison created the lightbuld, not Jefferson. I can forgive you for everything else, except that... perma-ban.

See how nevous one gets when death may be imminent? Post above edited... thx. BTW, I don't think "lightbulds" are legal in most states.

Off with his head!



Creston

I call dibs on his loot once he's been executed.

So your making amends for your own conscience??

EHHHH - wrong answer

Double Secret Probation - Perma Banned

p.s. How much do you charge for training?

Why do u need to so many Refund Points?

- If u are a PvP Player just kill the Premade and rebuild it.
- if u are more in PvE u like to NOT change everything within seconds.
the reward for this is u can play ur RPG char in PvP.

I dont see any Problems here.

Why would they perma-ban you o.O I don't see much wrong doing :/ Why would you even post this o.O

~prime

Your sarcasm sucks...

Well, you did come clean...
Your penance will be







PERMA-BAN!!!

Only 3K for a demonstration to spark ideas for their builds. 6K for the demo as well as detailed info on my stats, skills, equipment and execution order. I'm extremely thorough in my details (I used to be a real teacher fresh from college), and I allow 50% to be paid up front until I prove I'm legit.

I haven't held any classes since the latest build... but it's been a good source of unique income when I was advertising for enrollment. Heh, I still have students PM'ing me in game for advice, and some offer to pay for a refresher course. They've all been 100% satisfied and recommended me to others.

Because, if any of what I do is defined as an exploit in the TOS, I don't know if it is a bannable exploit like the Mirror Image issue last week, or a free pass exploit like all the guild teams that abused those crazy energy-powered monk builds. Let me know Arena.net, because when I get home from work tonight, I plan to double switch my secondary after each of my build experiments are done.

And to those who perma-banned me here, just wait until one-on-one matches are allowed. I'll find out your IGNs and will show you the meaning of the word REVENGE!

rofl.

The teaching thing is a good idea. I'm all for it. Teaches people how to be good players and teammates for a small fee and it benifits the entire community.

The attribute refund thing, I think that's really only to prevent people from changing around their attributes too much in mid battle to cater for each different team build you'll face. I personally don't see any problem in switching secondaries to get it back and even though it doesn't effect me, I would prefer if ArenaNet left that thing there.

Everything else shouldn't have even been mentioned. Farming is not a crime in the game, you're not gonna get banned for it otherwise they wouldn't be taking steps to reduce it and the need for it. They could just ban you instead :>

The selling of collectors items isn't bad either. If someone wants to pay for something they could have easily picked up themselves, well, it is their money. Personally I'd rather pay some cash for a collectors item I wanted rather then going out and trying to grab the items the collector needs.

Kiting isn't bad either, it's a form of strategy, which the game promotes. Maybe ArenaNet should ban you for being too paranoid

And the stealing of two extra bars from school, ArenaNet can't help or hinder you there. It's up to God now and you're going to hell >:

If you're worried about it being an exploit that could get you banned, then why don't you write the support group, detail it, and ask their opinion. If you get a YAY from them, and someone swings a ban stick, then I'd respond with the email. If you get a NAY, then just don't do it anymore and you should be ok as you've reported the issue and will be good from now on.

Make a premade for each build you have, instead of respecing.

I dont understand this double switch thing can somebody clearify, the rest I dont see any big deal with it. Excpet the candy bar, chop your hand off then you can't play the game(lol)

Before assuming that he broke rules, gained unfair advantage or cheated, why not read his post? Except for the candy-bar thing I see absolutely nothing that he's done wrong... he maybe should return the chocolate bars but... wtf? 4 responses with perma-ban, 3 implied bans, 3 ambiguous answers and only Sekkira and Mayar could actually see the ridiculousity if the whole situation.

You will not (*ahem* should not) get banned for the above situation, with the only possible exception of charging real money (vs. gold and plat) for training... and even then, if it's done among people you know and you don't advertise/use pay pal, and there are no complaints about it... why would Anet care?

Heh, I said it further in the thread... I only charged 6K of in-game plats for a 15 minute training session. No real money was requested or changed hands.

it seems people still believe that tons of players were banned for the mirror image exploit. Gaile herself said that only a couple dozen of the worst offenders were banned.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...5&page=1&pp=25

anyway, it doesn't seem you've done anything wrong (except for the candy bars, of course). the training thing is a great idea -- very unique way of making money!

does mirror image give a bonus? I beat him in like 20 seconds but I got no recognition for the "beat in under 50 seconds" bonus message. And there's no sheild over Augury Rock (Is it possible to actually get into the Mesa without fighting the Doppelganger?... this is going in the suggestion forum in the next break)

I don't think you need to be too worried about perma-banning, but it's good to bring possible exploits into the open, and possibly send them to ArenaNet's support.

The issue with the mirror image exploit was that it wasn't even possible in normal playing of the game- you had to know what you were doing and do it intentionally to exploit. From the incidents so far, it seems that if it's doable with in-game mechanics, that you won't get banned for it, but if you have to do something extranneous, you're probably looking for a perma-ban.

Hell they better not go and perm ban him just because of his final confessed "sin".

I remember taking more candy than I was supposed to...good stuff.

Good for a laugh that post was if nothing else.

Cheers.

attr refund points are a useless function of the game. I cant believe they would want to limit our character builds and add a MAJOR grind to the game. We need a bonus after asension, hey get rid of attrib points refund. Let us do it at will.

The problem is that superior runes are easier to buy than they are to unlock. Thus, people play PvE characters for PvP.

Praise be to the professor with a conscience.

Exploit: 1. to employ the greatest possible advantage. 2. to make use of selfishly or unethically.

This is where you would face the firing squad. Lessons, resales, glitches, and the like are all ok by me. I say, if you can do it within the confines of the user agreement and the law, your good to go. However, Anet may differ with my assesment of the situation. By definition exploiting the stupidity of other players is a misdemeanor act. Now Anet, like most creators, are especially offended when anybody exploits their creation, thus making it a felony. They will likely say, "Just cause you can do it, doesn't mean you should do it."

Likely outcome: Death by Beheading!

Wow, that was probably the clearest distinction between the two exploit comparisons I've read on this forum. Because the Monk exploit used in ranking battles was done using the skill as designed, no one got banned. Doing something that is obviously not part of the normal gameplay routine is a candidate for reprimands. Thanks for clearing that up.

I still think though that perma-bans for exploits may be too harsh... reset the account to start at square one maybe. Perma bans should be applied to people using out-of-game cheats however.

BTW, the double secondary glitch isn't as useful as I thought it would be. I thought it reset ALL of your Att. Points, but instead only the points for your secondary. I got back 5 points, lol. Back to the farm to*grind* away the other 19 in the unrelated PvE area I've ALREADY completed. Grrrrrrrrrrrrr.... I hope today's patch addresses this.

I think that a way to improve this would be to give you all of your refund points back when you go to your guild hall. This could be an incentive to get one!!

or you could go to gwonline.net under the files section there is a program called the edge it's a build tester... a lil tricky to get the hang of but it's exactly what your looking for....

A build tester program only gives me stats. I need to test real world applications of my builds to see how the skills mesh with each other. Not even reading other people's experiences is enough info for me... I need to match my builds with my own strategies and play style.

As for the guild-only idea above, that unecessarily puts solo players like myself in a bad position, The requirement would be arbitrary and have no real connection to the rule of it being only for guilds. With that said... I have enough plats and like many others, I'd buy a solo guild just to play how I want to play. It would be a sad situation.

Woo woo, Arena.net has shown mercy upon me... I live!

refund points come back anyway... no biggy as far as I can see... AS you gain exp all your refund points come back even for lev 20s... you just found a faster way to do it... its not like your getting more attrib points. I tested for that specifically, and made sure you could not do that (was fixed several patches ago). so your fine...

1)Double switching secondaries to allow a full return of Attribute Points outside of the main gameplay where it doesn't matter

- ahhh nothing wrong with this? im sure alot of people have done it.. ALOT OF PEOPLE, so they would have to ban all people who did it right? which makes them lose alot of people which makes them not do it


Farming solo in open areas for testing Rambo builds for fun, to find loot, money and earn XP to get more Attribute Refund points

- Farming solo HAHA i dont see anything wrong with using your time 2 get loot/money/xp/ *WHISTLES* attribute refund points

Selling private training sessions to willing students after each update (I've trained 30 or so, all happy and satisfied customers)

- i use to do this all the time in games like Warcraft and such easy money for people who like your service and such


Repeatedly going to Collectors to trade for their items, then selling them on the open market for whatever people will pay (I say 'Make an offer' and get 20K+ in some instances).

- Hey thats why they are there right?

Kiting (running away) with my Mes/Nec like a madman in arenas using Distortion (to evade), Illu. of Weakness (for 700 HP) and Plague Send (to get rid of conditions and Cripple). I've lasted almost an hour vs. three opponents in one of the four times I tried it. Absolutely hilarious to watch.

- hahahahaha if they were dumb enough to let you get away for that long they deserve to be laughed at!!! HAHAHAHA

In third grade, I took three candy bars instead of one out of the teacher's reward box, despite her clear instructions.

- now this is a criminal offence! what were you thinking!!!! now march over to your old teachers house and bring her 2 candy bars or else they will perma-ban you young boy!

I thought that when I was pure PvE. Now 99% of my time is PvP and it is NOT easy to get 6,000 XP when you only get 300 XP if your team wins. They need to reset refund points to 24 when the battle is over and you go back to town. I have tons of builds I like to test rapidly in PvP... I am sloooooowed because of the unnecessary restriction.

They let us freely change secondary class and skills when in town, but that's not fully flexible if you are limited in refund points to accomodate those changes.