ArenaNet Changes - Not a fan

For one, I am an extreme optomist on judge of character, even when recruiting to BE (can you speak english? okay join).

1. Gamers are not retarded, while most will not put in the hours, it is because the game is not fun.....

2. Shooting for the lowest common denominator should be done on consoles Suprisingly imo They would make a lot more sales with better PVP, Drawing in BOTH crowds.

How many people here love UO? 6 years after it was made prolly longer, there are 7800 people connected to a free shard, just 1 free shard. Did UO cater to the lowest denominator? Yes, and after that they drove a HUGE POPULATION of gamers looking for a non retarded game..

You have so many gamers, a huge ammount bigger then you could think waiting for a great game to come along... imho and a lot of peoples oppinion GW could have been astonishingly big in PVP, Starcraft big.. Tribes big.. Maybe we where wrong, maybe some ex pro starcraft gamers where wrong, but ANET was stupid for not giving it a chance in hell.

This is so true. It could have been that big. I don't get how people can ruin something they worked years developing in this way. I am sure when you work that hard on a game you think of and understand all of these issues. When making all of those skills and designing how well they could work together. How innovative is level designing? PvP is the real game - or, well, it could have been.

I'm going to have to say that I agree 100% with this assessment.

(I also started playing in E34E and have played in every Beta Event.)

Frankly, I don't see your point at all. Apart from calling us retarded in a non-classy way ("ret...retailers?" oh please, my 8 yrs old cousin could come up with something smarter than that), your entire bitching is incredible. I'm not "whining about you whining", I'm astonished by the reasons behind your rants.
So much grind? Are you joking? Just a week ago this forum was full of "hey, I liked grind, why did you eliminate grind?" threads and you feel like you have to grind to play pvp decently? Yes, you have to unlock your skills (that's the minimum to qualify this game as an RPG, if you don't like it, well, UT2004 is waiting for you), you need to unlock the sup vigor rune (buy an unided item) and thats about it...you even have the rune trader with his ridiculous prices.

Apart from your interior struggle against frustration (struggle you are, apparently, losing), it seems to me you didn't realize this is an RPG. A "wannabe" MOORPG if you want. No monthly fee, no huge grind, just little farming and average PvE, enjoyable mostly because of this game's beautiful visuals (don't even compare it to World of Blockcraft) and sheer number of skills/strategies to beat your way through. On top of that, PvP is incredibly deep, fun and rewarding. I'll admit the arenas are nothing spectacular, but there's room for improvement and Anet has been quite responsive until now.

No, I'm not a beta-player, I'm just in love with common sense and convinced that exaggerate criticism for the sake of it won't take you anywhere.

[QUOTE=Mormegil]. I'll admit the arenas are nothing spectacular, but there's room for improvement and Anet has been quite responsive until now.
QUOTE]



note that after doing some studying Anet will take the first step to improving the pvp with next weeks update

note that this will be done in several small steps rather than one grand solution

to mormegil, first of all, comparing this to the "we want farming back" is just plain stupid. It may not be a pain in teh ass for you, but Dac is the leader of BE which is a top guild so everyone in his guild HAS to unlock most skills in the game and it's becoming a pain for him, im also going through hell trying to unlock skills so i can actually start pvp.

No doubt he's an experienced player. He's even a beta-tester, so hats off for that. That doesn't help is point though (not to mention the way he express it), which is, to me, flawed.

please humor me instead of flame

my own outlook would be to spend part of my time enjoying the pvp (i dont but you do) and the rest getting things you think you need.

here is my reasoning on this

if this is actually going to be a long term game for you than getting a bit of a slower start shouldnt make that much (if any) difference in the long run and you might have more fun along the way

just my opinion

i already unlocked almost all warrior and necro skills, and im unlocking monk and ranger right now, i dont think im gonna be unlocking all mes and ele skills though, if i do need those ill just buy them with the skill points i have left, what you say is true though. But spending some of my time in pvp right now, thats impossible since pugs suck and take at least half an hour to find, and the only way to join a decent guild is to unlock most skills, so what im really doing is playing the arena when i get bored.

Here is a build:

Basics: Warrior Carnage

Outline: Destroy the enemy team with RAW DPS,

PROS: Extreme Damage Output
CONS: Counterable by anti-warrior easily.

Basic Build:


Axe Warrior: (cleave)
War/*

Cleave (elite), Sprint, Executioner's Strike, Fear me!, For Great Justice, Disrupting Chop, Frenzy, Penetrating Blow

Axe Warrior: (cleave)
War/Nec

Cleave (elite), Sprint, Executioner's Strike, Fear me!, For Great Justice, Disrupting Chop, Rend Enchantments, Frenzy

Charge Warrior: (Speed Buffs)
warrior

Charge (elite), Sprint, Sever Artery, Gash, Galrath, Fear Me!, For Great Justice!, Frenzy

Charge Warrior: (Speed Buffs)
war/nec

Charge (elite), Sprint, Sever Artery, Frenzy, Galrath, Fear Me!, For Great Justice!, Rend Enchantments

Support Damage
Monk/Necro

Order Of blood (elite), Blessed Signet, Bane Signet, Judge's Insight, Strength of Honor, Smite Hex, .....

3 Monk Team.


Now you have this basic build, with 4 warrior, 1 Smiter to increase damage of warriors +12-35

Then you have these insane Tank Warriors designed for DPS and SPEED.

You can mow over an Air ele team in less then 30 seconds with ease.

Now how many teams can actually field this build?

It took us like 3-4 weeks to be able to run it regularly if that.


Btw Tactics should be raised from 8-13 depending.

Every 4 addren you gain, steal 3-4 energy in Ward radius through fearme.

All damage is increased 33% due to frenzy.

All Damage is increased 12-35 from Smiter support who grants +12 damage to all warriors

All Damage is based on DPS and energy denial.

No focus fire is necessary, sick the warriors on monks and let them have fun.

70-100 damage every 1 second can kill any monk in seconds not to mention the ability to interrupt and drain. On average against a pickup the fight lasted no longer then 30 seconds in most cases.

There was no wait between, no worry of double teams. We would attack at first moment and destroy the map as fast as possible.

Now, the fact of the matter is, with UAS, and UAR, right now me posting this would actually matter, as it stands it will just be a build to look at and people say "well I wont grind for that" or, heck I have 3/5 people with the skills owell.

thats a nice build

Weezer...have you ever played WoW and EQ? Because I doubt you would say something like that if you'd actually played them. Like it or not, there is a significant difference in the level of "grind" between GW and those games. I put "grind" in quotations because to me, and a lot of people, it's not grind. It's gameplay. Grind is when the killing no longer has a rhyme or reason, or you are forced to do things repeatedly to get a random item drop you need to finish a quest. That's grind. I feel no pressing need to have all my skills unlocked to compete in PvP. I've yet to encounter a situation in which me, or my guildmates, had to go unlock a skill expressly to deal with it. We always have some skill available to counteract it. So far, excepting party idiocy, I've never had to grind a day in Guild Wars, and I have been in a slew of betas, and know exactly what the betas of this game were, and how the actual game is different from those.

Hence why they were called "beta" weekends, instead of "demo" weekends. I never, at any time, expected the final game to be like this. I've been in enough betas to know that the game tends to undergo radical changes before it's shipped, and sometimes the dev makes the betas misleading to people for various unknown reasons.

Do I believe you're aggrieved at your percieved betrayal at the hands of A.net? Yes. Do I think that, since you have now moved onto other games you should stop wasting our time? Yes.

Have a nice day.

EDIT: bah, that makes no logical sense, but I'll leave it up anyway.

Wtf!? I shell out $55cdn/month for cable already. Theres no goddamn way anyone can justify another $20cdn/month just to play a damn game I would already own!

Buying a game and then HAVING to pay to play it is just plain rediculous.

Actually I think GW is great value, I've completed with one character, and doing it again with a 2nd, enjoying it no less.

My only bone with it is with items, for instance I do not see why a gold item has worse mods than a lot of whites.

Golden staff with +1 energy? Get real!

Strait from the box:

"You'll prove your worth with every battle as skill, not hours played, decides your fate. Whether battling horrific monsters or competing at the highest levels of tournament play, it will always be your skill that earns you victory or defeat... Are you up to the challenge?"
-Don't bullshit me and tell me that's not false advertising. I've put 300+ hours into this game, and I've never unlocked a single ****ing superior rune. Call me unlucky, call me a whiner, I don't give a damn. That's just not right. Skill > Hours played? This how come I can tip the playing field 20% by using superior runes?


Random Interviews:

"Conversely, we designed Guild Wars from the ground up to appeal to a broad audience, and that is reflected both in the design of the game and in the way we price it."
-You guys had this during beta. Why'd you screw it up?

"casual team warfare"
-You call 300+ hours and still barely unlocks casual?

From http://guildwars.com/

"The game is designed from the ground up to offer balanced competitive play..."

"Our goal from the beginning was to create a game that rewards gamers for their skill rather than just for the number of hours they spent playing."

"As gamers ourselves, we wanted to make a great game that had real replayability and real immersiveness while not charging people a fee."
-Cool. You got half of it right. Personally, I think immersion is more important than the dent in my wallet.

"Experience a changing world, where the entire landscape can be altered as you explore and conquer."
-I don't think that one mission in the Maguuma Jungle where you drop the seeds to build bridges counts as "entire landscapes"


These messages are repeated over and over and over all throughout the site, the box, and every other written word. And yet, I don't see one bit of casual PvP play in the game. Premade templates are completely and utterly worthless. Those don't count. For it to be casual, you have to be able to casually win.


Oh, as for "aaaagh", all you've been doing is flaming people this entire thread, and you seriously don't know what you're talking about. I'm not going to bother reading your excessively long ranting flames any longer, so if you had anything important to say, it was long lost in your infantile name calling and immaturity.



And, yes. Beta was a marketing scheme. Hey, why was the event in October called the "World Preview Event"? All the other betas that followed were also preview events, but they called them betas and said you had to buy the preorder to get in so they could predict sales figures, and perhaps find a bug or two while they're at it.

What I don't understand is why you folks spend so much time bitching about a game you apparently don't enjoy when you could instead be spending it playing games you actually do enjoy.

Simply because we know how good it could be. During beta, Guild Wars was the best game I had ever played for PC.

Indeed, GW accomplished a rare thing, the retail release was far worse than the beta. Both in pve and pvp the beta was far better.

Because they enjoy it, they're only too shy to admit it. And hey, whining can be addictive.

*sniff sniff* ... "hey... do you smell hypocrisy?"

appearantly, whining about whining is addictive. and pointless, too.

Sniff sniff...do I smell lack of basic reading comprehension?

"They're too shy to admit it"= irony

"Whining can be addictive"= irony again.

I don't know where you can read a whine. And you just whined because you thought I was whining about people whining. My god.

Moderators should really think about creating a Bitching Area in the forums.

Mormegil, just shut up and spare us your stupidity.

Well, this thread has gone to hell as anticipated...

Thats all you can come up with? The idea of that "Bitching Area" must hurt bad.

Anyway, I kindly ask you to refrain from posting tough sentences like the one you just typed, otherwise you're just showing you can't stand a civil discussion.

Now someone will flame, the thread will degenerate...yawn. But it's fine for me, this thread was quite useless from the beginning imho.

Almost fell right out of my chair laughing at this one, do you even understand the concept of BETA testing? Do you understand WHY they had to GIVE everyone total access to ALL the stuff in the game with no need to lift a finger by US the testers?

It's the only way to TEST everything in the game.

If anyone had the expectation that the retail would mirror the BETA then shame on them, that shows a complete and total lack of understanding about how a testing system is designed to work.

The bottom line is that weezer and those like him are only interested in having the game be the way HE wants it and screw everything else, there's no middle ground, no possible way that GW could be attractive to a wider range of people that aren't looking for the same things that he is.

Now the next predictable reply from that camp would be "carebare" or "thats because you don't PvP" or some other OLD narrowminded reply. We might get graced by quotes from the Retail Box like "......based on skill and not hours of play", c'mon is that it? Anyone can spin the statements on the box to mean anything and ya know what, they do mean different things to different people, some might take it the way you did and others might not but the point remains the same, they're different. All kinds of people buy this game and others for many different reasons, why is your's the only right one?

What's that? It'd not you say...hmmm then why is it that post after post after post you say the SAME thing and argue ANY other point that is not consistant with your's?

This is not a reply. This is Gospel. Probably dozens of people wanted to express that, but it never came out this way.

Congratulations.

Indeed. I've already expressed my views on the issue and those participating in it. So, I give you: a puppy

no the proper reply would be

stfu and stfd noob

But i will be nice.


You are a ret.. retailer

okay.. basically
1. Your logic makes no sense, saying that it depends on the person makes everything up to question, aka FPS can really mean First person view of your monitor that is third person.

This is highly stupid, and although it can be meant that way, that is not the general meaning.

2. Skill not hours played, includes the factor that, in order to be on an even or semi competitive level with eachother, you will not have to spend hours and hour grinding away. In fact this is not the case and skill is not as big a factor, compared to unlockables.

the 25% extra damage/healing/fastcasting allows an inbuilt advantage to grinders.

3. There was a lot of advertising as this being a PvP game about skill.

....

Need I explain more?

Yes the retail is completely different, I will not argue that as you prove it with your remarks. That is why we are upset.

Now, Mr. Gospel boy, Anet is not god so get off your pulpet.


also the attitude, your view is meaningless, shut up you are only one person can be applicable to you. For instance you fit the qualifications of being, only one person. So why do you ever say anythign or post on a forum? You are only one person with one view compared to the millions out there. Maybe if I was 100 people you would listen? That seems impossible as I am a single person, your attacks on me are obviously retarded expecting me to represent every gamer who bought Guildwars, when no one can.

As I don't really see any negative effects of going back to beta play styles upon the PvE community, and it would definatly help the PvP community, I really don't get your point. But I am not as predictable as you may think, in that I've been laughing my ass off with every post just knowing that we are arguing on data that the original poster provided that, at this point, is completely theoretical. In any case, I'm done dealing with assholes. Believe me, if it weren't for the "quit bitching" replys, I would have been done long ago, as all this is not getting anyone anywhere. I just hate you people, and I find it fun to trash you every chance I get when your idiocy shows through, which it quite often does in threads such as this.

Also, don't generalize me, and spare me your god damned cynicism.


Been playing GunZ. Haven't played guild wars for a week. Don't intend to ever log on again until this problem is fixed once and fore all, and by the time GunZ gets old, I'll be playing CounterStrike:Source, where I get to deal with hackers - people who everyone knows aren't using their skills to beat us unlike this sham of a PvP game.

anyway, bye, until the next bitchy remark I hear. If you want to drop it right now, don't quote me, don't reply to my post, and don't refer to me as a whiney PvPer in this or any other thread, ever. I try to resist, but I can't stand getting trash talked by assholes, and thus I enter into a self destructive loop of responses, to flames.

Shut Up.
Sincerely,
Weezer.

In a previous post I wrote that this guy was apparently losing his interior struggle against frustration. Now I can say he just lost it.

Not even the puppy could move him. He answered "stfu noob" to a well thought out post...flame is the ultimate weapon for the hardcore whiner.

Will you beta-test your posts first, as I humbly suggested before?

Thanks

I am going to assume that you are refering to the last to Beta Weekend Events (and their UAS button), because if I remember correctly the Weekend Events before those were much the same as the finished release. There was no UAS, almost everyone played the game going through the missions, and there was a large amount of people playing both PvP and PvE. There are some major differences, though, as well. For example, no skill quests, less content, and most importantly, more options.

I am not going to pretend to speak for everyone, but I am sure there are some fellow Beta players who will agree with me. In my opinion, the number one worst change made from Beta to Release was chaning the way you aquired skills, the heart of the game. In the majority of the Betas, at as early as Ascalon there was a wide variety of skills for players to choose from. These choices lead to more varitions between players and both richer and more fun PvP and PvE.

A byproduct of the amount of choices presented to players was more varied strategies and a constantly shifting PvP metagame. Another byproduct of the choices was that players could quickly adapt to the metagame.

A byproduct for the PvE was the massive replayability it allowed. In the game as we have it now, you can go through an early-game area and you have a choice of maybe 15 skills to use. This means that each and evey time that you go through that area with the class you used it will be the exact same. However, you can go back to the early-game areas with a fuller skill list after ascension but at this point those areas have lost all of their challenge.

As of now,if I was a pure PvE player, I would be more pissed than if I was a pure PvP player. (I am neither. I enjoy each for different reasons.) I would be pissed, because the changes put some of the most fun and interesting skills at the end of the game. You only get these skills at a point where you can no longer use them for anything but a few missions and then PvP.

At this junction, I still feel that Guild Wars is a fun game, but it has shown very little of the potential that it showed during the Betas. If things don't change by the first expansion, I am afraid that Anet will have lost another customer.

Quintus is right. I really don't care about UAS, or PvP, I dabble in it, but it does not rule my life. However, no longer being able to buy skills anywhere was rather upsetting. Let me rephrase: when I got my first character to post-searing ascalon at 3 AM Central Time on the 27th of April, and ran to the skill trainer, and only found one skill to buy, I was about 18 kinds of pissed.

I've since learned to accept this fact, and learn how to work with it in the boundaries set by GW. I'm not as happy as I once was, and I get tired, as an elementalist, of being forced to use flare endlessly. At least my warrior had access to good hammer, axe, and swords kills from VERY early on in the actual game. *sigh* But I still love this game.

lol. I remember when you used to be able to get Healing Hands and other elites from Ascalon, and the hardest trip to get skills in the game was Ascalon Settlement. The only rarities were things like Glimmering Mark which people had to get from the rare skill charm vender. Believe me, I was fine with the prospect of no UAS during beta. I thought "big deal. I make three characters and run them to Lions Arch and get almost everything I need". Now they're too spread out to have any fun.

Oh look. Another PvP bitch about the UAS.

You'd need to make what...3 characters total in order to have a complete set of skills if you wanted 'em? W/E, Mo/N, and R/Me are popular class combinations. Even so, you don't need ALL the skills to be competetive if you know what you're doing with the skills you already HAVE. Go whine elsewhere.

Are you replying to my post? If so, I couldn't care less if they don't add a UAS. I just want more early-game options. (Something that I think would benefit everyone.)

(Note: I don't know if this was your intent, but I sensed a lot of negativity in your post. Negativity only breeds negativity. So, if you want to have a half-way decent discussion, I suggest you leave the negativity out of all of your future posts.)

Weezer and BE, THIS is a good post and responsive in an intelligent manner, your's are as always predictable and just consatant rehash of the same old points over and over again with the occasional "shut up" response or "a-hole" remark just because. If either of you were able to respond in any other way than negative reactionary, you might just be taken seriously. Unfortunetly you wil most likely continue to "and thus I enter into a self destructive loop of responses, to flames" which you're right gets you nowhere.

I didn't play the beta, but what Quintus says rings true to me. I thought sword-wielding warriors had it bad wrt skills, not getting pretty much any good skill except bleeding until the last mission, but I'm now replaying as an ele, and if anything this avatar gets even fewer skills.

The way the beta system was described, ie you'd be able to get all skills at Lions Arch at the latest, sounds great to me.

wow, only 3 characters to unlock the skills......... and how long does it take to unlock all skills for one of those characters? have you ever tried to apply for a decent guild? well, the first thing they tell you is "what professions do you play?", the meaning of this is, if you can't play almost every profession you will be useless to the guild, and if you can't get into a decent guild, i guess you're gonna have to go to pvp in pugs, wait half an hour to find a pug, then die in the first area in tombs. I'm not saying that losing sucks or anything, I'm saying that to wait half an hour to get grouped with idiots is no fun.

F.Y.I.


Being that the game went live April 28, the license to use the word "noob" has not yet been issued. If you find the need to use said word, kindly find the ballpeen hammer in tool drawer and smack self in forehead once for every instance the word is used.


For those of you who find flaming the only way to communicate, leave your egos at the door. Life is too short to make a pixilated universe your reality.

Please tell me your fecking joking regarding release day for free content. More and more im being pulled towards Battle Field 2

Nothing left to do and im getting tired of waiting around for PVP play to open PVE areas for the UW/FIS.

Wonder what the PVP brigade would think if they had a key area that depended on PVE players to open for them.

Just doesnt seem right to me