My View From the Fence

Well, I'm not sure how to begin, so I'm just going to jump right on into this, so please forgive my bluntness. Sorry ANet, I have to do this.

~ Why do we have a trade channel? Seriously, how often have we all entered a town to be welcomed by a barrage of shouts about selling dyes or furs or people trying to rip-off newcomers? True, I can turn off the local channel and avoid it all, but it still boils down to the same question. Why have a trade channel at all?

~ Ok, I know there's a big war about rights to farming and not. I also know that farming can really mess up the economy and mechanics of the game(please see FFXI, WoW, Lineage2, etc). At the same time, I hear a lot of the same answer when it comes to how we acquire wealth; "Just play the game." Well, I've played through the game twice and even WITH my feeble attempts at farming I think I've seen 2 gold drops and a couple dozen purple drops(most of which I only got during my "farming" moments, and yes, I've been to UW and The Fissure). And half those purple drops had NO bonuses what so ever. I ended with about 17plat, which is enough for one piece of elite armor. And yes, it's elite so it should be pricey, but if I can't farm, and the drops end up being crap, what am I supposed to do?

~ While we're on the subject of the economy, I seriously think some sort of Auction House is in order. Prices fluctuate too much. Especially on the weekends. I feel like I need a degree in economics just to predict how things are going to be just so I can make a profit off of hours of work. If all else, it will allow some sort of stability for selling items between players and it would definitely eliminate the "WTS/WTB" Spam issue in towns.

~ I LOVE the instant travel. For the love of everything Holy, please don't ever get rid of it!

~ Armor needs more variety. Please. Please please please please please. Everything looks so cookie-cutter. I know ya'll say you're working on it, but it's just driving me nuttz. Your competition has so much more variety. It's one of those things that I have to weigh when expansion pack time comes around. If I'm going to see the same old thing or get a handful of new armor types, I seriously won't be getting the expansion. Why should I?

~ The ending was so anti-climactic, I seriously stopped playing for like three weeks! I was so depressed. All that work and not even a special celebration, no fancy award, no bonus armor, no feast or parade...nothing! I know GW is open ended, but after all that work only to be teleported back to the Forge, I felt betrayed. Seriously.

~ Speaking of work, how do I know what I've done? I write it all down. Now I know I'm a Hatter for taking notes anyway, but this is nuttz. I got a wall full of notes. If I had a digital camera, I'd take a picture for ya'll. I hear guilds saying they have people with 100% completion and they know "everything," but I seriously don't know what that means or if I'm even close. We really need a way to know what quests we've completed and what runes/weapon mods we've collected in PvE. If all else, when we finish the storyline, give us access to all the quests we missed, so at least we'll have something to do aside from (dare I say it?!) farm.

~ Instances are an amazing thing, for that, I tip my hat. But at the same time, I feel alienated. Like I'm an uninvited guest in an abandoned house. It's great not having to wait in line for quests and mobs to kill, but it would be nice to be able to invite my friends into my game instance. Say a Guildmate hops on in the middle of a mission, either I complete the mission before I go adventure with them or I drop out and lose all my progress. Why not let me invite them into my instance and let them run to a zone then transfer them over. Let me kick out one of my henchies and Bam! Instant space for my friend.

~ Let's hop back to "work" put into the game. Yes, there's a lot of running around and baby-sitting heavy items for quests, etc. But I think the hardest thing I had to endure was the learning curve. First time through, it took me a while to figure out the lay of the land and how everything worked. Second time through, I was in groups with actual, living, breathing human beings a handful of times(not to say I was in THAT many parties with humans the first time around, probably seven parties the first time). I found the game a lot easier to play without the human aspect. The Henchies are far more predictable, and for that, far more reliable then their human counterparts. It's great we have the ability to fill a gap in a PUG with a character and don't have to wait. But when I can strip away all human action and fill a group with henchies, that just doesn't feel right.

~ Monks are the most neglected job I have seen yet. Everyone wants one, but no one really cares about them. We're walking(I'd say running but we usually get nailed with some sort of slow ailment at the start) targets. Yes, I know, Monks are a vital element in any party, but you hit PvP and we're going down. Even in PvE, we're among the first to go. I know it comes with the territory, but there's just no real drive for us to WANT to play a monk. At least not how you would imagine it. You can go down the Smiting Monk path, but people would sooner kick you out of their party for not healing then see what you can actually do. Give the monks some love!

~ Now this is going to sound really weird, or maybe even pure madness, but just hear me out, please. There's a lot that goes with this subject so I'll try to flesh it all out without adding another 20 pages to this already long post(sorry, I just wanted to get everything out for people to talk on). First, I think we need a target command. It would make it so much easier to find people in towns. Something like /target "Inklebert Humperdink" and Bam! I have Mr. Humperdink selected on-screen. Second, we need a search command, to find certain people and find where they are at, what district, what their level is, etc. Third, I also think there should be some sort of Party flag. If you want to join a party, then put your flag up and people can invite you. If you don't have your flag up, invite requests don't go through. Some areas you enter as a tank or a monk, and people will spam invite you no matter how much you may reject their offer. And it's not like we can report people for being inconsiderate idiots. If we could ANet wouldn't have the man-power to support the complaints.

~ I was in a Guild with a GH long enough to know that it wasn't worth the trouble, but without it, it's exceedingly hard to recruit people into your Guild. There's no collective bank, or storage, there's no personalization, no nothing. We couldn't even name our Guild Hall. Come on, that has to be a given. We can name the Guild, but that doesn't mean our GH should have the same name, that's just kind of cheezy. There's so little personalization to it, it's another one of those things like finishing the story-line. "Yeah....I did it....woo-hoo..." *snore* I'm sorry, don't get me wrong, the selection of the styles is amazing. The layouts are breath-taking(especially the one's from warrior's isle, I love those!), but there isn't much more to it after that. Guild Halls should be just that, Halls for your Guildmates to come over and hang out at. Throw us some custom areas, some private rooms for our members(maybe some storage spaces or a journal so we can measure our progress or revisit the cut scenes we've unlocked), a dining hall with selectable music to throw parties, some mini-games, something! It's all just so boring. Yeah, you do the GvG thing there, but it's not so much of a "Hall" as it is a Battlefield. If that's all the GH is going to be, let Guilds fight amongst themselves for practice. "Give Me Rooms, or Give Me Inner-Guild Skirmish!"

~ Role-playing districts would also be a welcome addition. At least you know you can go somewhere and not have to hear people spamming about wanting to see female Ele's dance in their "panties." *waits for the childish snickering to stop before continuing* Those of us that want to play the game seriously and respectfully or those that want to truly immerse themselves in the game have few(if any) places to go. It is a "Role Playing" Game after all.

~ Now, before I have every warrior flaming me over this. Let me just say, I have a warrior character, it's my farming character, and I know what I'm talking about. I loaded up a W/Mo and proceeded to go through Post-Searing Ascalon...alone! There were only two areas I really needed to load a party(which I loaded with henchies, and no, the two areas I needed a team were NOT story Missions). Now it felt great being able to trounce through the area alone, being able to collect all the drops and all the money. But from a realistic perspective, it's rather unbalanced. Yes I like it, yes it's cool, and yes I'm sure I'll be regretting talking about this later when I have no way to get money anymore because Warriors are balanced and farming is destroyed, but I'm trying to look at all this from a fair and proper perspective. It's essentially farming. Really. I've collected far better loot this way and I still don't have to interact with anyone.

~ The Ignore list should allow you to ignore people, and not just when they are talking directly to you. That is just plain stupid. I'm sorry, there is no other way to describe that. Most griefers won't talk directly to one person, they have to talk with EVERYBODY. So blocking them from whispering us is pretty pointless. I can stand next to someone, block them, and still hear them. So, if they give me crap, "I" have to leave a district in order to find peace. The good player has to be inconvenienced, almost punished, for the stupidity of others. That's just not right.

Don't get me wrong, GW is a fun and interesting game. The potential is astounding. But the replay value just isn't there. I can do the same thing with Diablo 2, or Darkstone, or almost any other top-down RPG and not have so much trouble or childish interferences. I saw a review once that summed it up perfectly. "Guild Wars is an MMORPG for people who don't like MMORPG's." Everything is there for a wonderful gaming experience, or as I've heard it expressed before "This game will roxorz your boxorz." But I just don't see it. It's still a glorified version of Diablo 2 to me. So I'm on the fence about what GW is. People ask me and I don't know whether to tell them go buy it now or wait for something better. So I guess I'll wait until expansion pack time comes around and go from there. If things are looking better, I'll buy it, if not, there's always WoW, or FFXI, or DAoC. You get what you pay for, right?

Either way, I'm still impressed and happy with all the progress the Devs have made and say they are working on. And I salute them for bringing the On-Line gaming world to where it should really be. A Free world unshackled from the bonds of servitude! *clears throat* I mean, saved from the oppression of greed and *catches self* I mean, for giving us a great game without monthly subscriptions, but, in my most humble opinion, there is a lot to work on if ANet is to keep my business. If the difference between balance/control and pandemonium is $15 a month, I spend that much on cigarettes every 3 days. I think I can stretch my other addictions a little more to accommodate another bill.

Elric... this is a great post. Fair, criticizing and not whining. You made loads of excellent points (often echoing random threads and posts throughout the forums) and I hope that Anet reads this and listens. I won't debate anything cuz I agree with everything, and beyond what I've already said I won't add anything either.

Eric it appears that most players that I meet in game on GW are all saying the same thing. Arena net really needs to step it up for us, Because most of the games unique luster has or is quickly wearing off.

I Got so fed up with playing alone (mostly because most people dont follow direction) that I actually went out and bought WoW. I figured if I'm going to play alone in a game world might as well play agame where I could meet people in middle of missions.



Well thats my 2 cents worth

Those are all excellent points and very good suggestions. One thing I would like to point out though. The game has been out for only a few months. Can we at least give them a little time to get some things shaken down. I think for a first out they made an excellent product and are well on the way to making something awesome. I mean for a $50 game with no monthly fee it's been great. You can't expect what you get from something that has sustainable income like WoW or EQ. So I say give them time and you will get everything you want in the next few chapters, yeah you will have to pay for it, yeah you will have to wait for it, but it will be there.

Pashet, I understand completely. GW is still relatively new and, from a gaming perspective, imrpovement and tinckering is what we live for. But from a business perspective, there's catching up to do. And that is what it always boils down to. Is this a product I will invest more money into? I agree, out of the gate, it was a great game. I was so excited the day before my pre-order came in the mail, I barely slept. The graphics and attention to detail made me drool. The ability to specialise my skills and make my own unique version of any job was an interesting twist. So I'll wait and see how things turn out before I can really say GW is good or bad.

DrSLUGFly and Kaos the Korruptor, I'm glad to know I'm not the only one that feels this way in some, if not all, respects. At the same time, I'm sorry to hear it. I have high hopes for GW and the potential for greatness is really there. I too, hope ANet reads this. Thanks. ^^

There's a trade channel because the players demanded it.

Winning in Hall of Heroes seems to be the quickest way to get the 15k-per armor.

Everything else, yeah.

Just sounds like a whole lot of ranting on topics that have been already mentioned before...

I wouldn't call it ranting, but yes, some of it has already been mentioned before. But we all do this. We come here, day after day and beat the same dead horses 'til the blood runs dry. Only to come back the following day and do it all over again. Why? I, for one, decided to jump into it all because I feel they are subjects that are worth repeating.

If we repeat it enough times maybe something good will come of it. If things were changed or even if we got a simple answer as to why something wouldn't work or why it won't happen, I'm sure most of the repetition would stop. I'd address ANet directly with this, but their site refers to other places such as this to voice comments, concerns, and suggestions. So here we all are. Roll your eyes all you want Johnny, it won't change the fact that this is the only way for players to voice themselves with the miniscule hope that ANet will listen or reply, even if we all say pretty much the same thing.

DAMN that was long ^_^ ok, first thing I want say is that if you get rid of the trade channel, then guess what the "all" channel would be used for? I mean...more so than it is already...not a pretty picture. The party flag thing is a nice idea, kind of like the system in FFXI, only...uh...it's really not too hard to find a party. Just look for someone with a little blue icon above their head and PM them. Being able to search the area is not that nessessary because the areas are not as large, and if you need to find someone, you could type their name into the (+)__________ in the party window. Monks do get targeted, but that's becasue it's illogical to attack the other party members when the monks are sitting there healing them. I think it's fun playing as a monk, and it has serious perks in terms of how comparatively easy it is to find a party as compared to other professions. But there I go picking everything apart again. I'll just leave it at "sort of...but not really..." rather than repeating a bunch of things I've already said.

Wah, wah, wah...that's all I hear...

All very nice points. Its not whining and good suggestions! About the trade channel.... What really bugs me is in lions arch people use the normal chat for trades, even after begging for a trade channel. Why? It gets filled with people spamming the same trades for hours and no one buys because of horrid inflation. I agree with everything you said. I tryed out WoW after getting burnt out of GW and this is just so much better, but needs repair before i can attempt to try and get fissure armor. (After multiple forum searches, it will take 800k-1 mill ATM to buy it because of absurd inflation with obsidian shards and ectoplasm.)

Oh and johhny, if you dont like it, dont reply.

I sure hope A.Net reads this, or maybe gaile....

Luna, sorry it was so long. I've been hiding in the back of the forums and the game for a while keeping trrack of the progression of things. Too many notes, like I said, big wall full, total Hatter...yeah....sorry 'bout that. ^^

As Talic and Luna pointed out, the Trade channel is a sticky situation. Whether we as a whole of players demanded it or not as Tellani informs us, I do believe it has gotten out of control. And getting it back in check is a sticky situation. As Luna conjectured, eliminating the Trade channel will flood the All channel with garbage, and keeping Trade, the All still has a flood, but it IS the lesser of two evils. But if they do institute some sort of Auction House or automated Trade System, I'm sure we could eliminate a lot of the spam.

That's my main concern with the trading and channels issue. The Trade channel is supposed to be used for trade and the All channel is supposed to be used for regular communication. But it isn't always used that way. Aside from that, you get too many people in an area, even if they did use the trade channel you almost HAVE to spam in order to get your merchandise recognised.

The best I can come up with is letting the system handle trades with an Auction House or other Automated System. If someone has a better or easier idea, please, let us all know. Thanks everyone. ^^

ELRIC...ill hand it to ya you have the best post on this web-site(my opinon),seriously you really made me say "s*it hes right"
1.extemly helpful
2.points out the truth
3.GOOD GRAMMER!
WOO-FULLMETAL RULES!

Wow, great post. Well written and very valid and truthful points.

The trade window has to be fixed for sure. It's annoying when the same few people spam their message every few seconds, which is probably why I trade all of my stuff on a site now.

A role-playing channel would be great... but guess what, it would probably get filled with the same incomptent people. There would probably just be fewer of them spamming the same jargon as you mentioned.

I agree about the armour. I wish I could customize the way the gladiator's chest piece looks... ugh, how can that thing have the same defense as knights?

Apparently when you make a PvP character you can see what you've unlocked as far as runes/upgrades are concerned. It would be a nice addition for us you prefer to PvE to see what quests we haven't done since they keep adding new ones.

I wish they would reduce the cost of the 15k armour so that you didn't have to farm endlessly. I didn't get have as much gold going through the game as I made on a single gold item. Seems like this past week the price for ectos has doubled. Newer players are going to be turned off when they finally get to the forger and say "I have to get 45 of those?!!?!? For one piece... and hey, it has the same defense...".

Again, great post. Hope Anet does make some changes (hopefully for the better) when the time comes around for an expansion.

Because they have trade channel off and people forget to turn it on.

Except for FFXI and Lineage 2, WoW economy system never got messed up.

I don't even matters at this point. Recently, I made a post about gamers with high-end armor fighting in low levels arenas. The armor and weapons were given to them at a very low prince since every item is junk now thanks to change in the drop system and the introduction of rune/rare item traders.

I both hate and love it. I like it because it helps me avoid most of boring PvE aspect of the game, but I hate it because it makes the game seem less like an rpg. RPGs are about exploring/adventuring and not just doing tasks to gain levels and loot.

Agreed.

The whole idea after getting to the end point is to pvp. That's where ANet makes their money.

How about something that helps you organize a party by finding people with certain class and level you desire. And yes, a party member teleport would be good if an original team member jumps out of the party.

They don't need to be changed, nor should any class be change to adapt. The game is already imbalanced by the versatility of the characters attributes, it doesn't need any further imbalances by giving monks more advantages.

If the monks are dying fast, it only means that teams need to take their monk more seriously. If they don't, that monk should leave the party and find a party that will.

Will most likely never happen.

Basically, what you are asking is to increase the drops for warriors right?

The ignore list should 1) infinite room to ignore as many people you want. *Note: this should have been the first thing on list.* 2) Allow you to ignore indirect talk and allow you to ignore invites from that person.

So many people, including myself, feel the same as you do about GW's lack replay-ability. Anet has done a great job so far but unless they find a way to make the game as fun as it was when I bought it, I just stop playing eventually. I know this sounds crazy, but I have never burned myself out with any game as fast as I did with guild wars. One reason for this is that for how many people play, it sure gets fustrating that with the number of people who just don't want to run a quick quest or mission.

Amazing post, by the way.
One final note, Anet is doing a great job. Keep up the good work.

Just when I thought this thread was dead, lol.

Excellent point and counter-point all around. It's hard to tell which side of the fence should be catered too. One thing though, that I'd like to clear up, is in regards to CaptainGuru's response to the warrior thing. About my belief that War drops should be increased. That wasn't my point and I appologise if that is how it came across. What I was trying to say was that the ability for War's to do so much alone isn't balanced in my opinion. Now maybe it's just me, but no class should ever be refered to as "The Farming" Class. I know War's are about damage and tanking and all that wonderful stuff. But my ability to do so much alone and farm so easily is disturbing. To me anyway. That was the point I was trying to make, and hopefuly I expressed myself properly. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

All that being said and clarified, I'm really not happy with this product anymore. I've beaten the game more times then I should have and I'm not really into PvP due to the nature of the system. So many guilds, so many people. I feel like I should be offering scholarships or something to get good players on my team or just people who want to have fun.

So, I went back to WoW. I do some farming and hang out with my Guild when I know they are on. But unless they are there, I play WoW. And thankfuly, the issues that existed in WoW have been resolved and improved. So I'm very satisfied with my gaming experience. ANet, you created a wonderful and inovative game. But you just can't compete with the other games that are out there. No monthly fee and my feeling of alienation, lack of community, and imbalanced playstyle doesn't compare to $15 a month and more content and community then I know what to do with. Sorry ANet, better luck with other customers.

~Elric

If you don't mind I'm going to be blunt too. The problem is not A.net, the problem is you. You bought Guild Wars expecting a fairly average MMORPG instead you got a very unique and singular game which isn't quite a 3D diablo and isn't a regular MMORPG.

The problem is the people who think Guild Wars is trying to beat WoW or Diablo et al and that the end game is spending hours farming to get uber-items to "pwn" new players. If people realised that buying that godly shield (for x hundreds of platinum) which is significantly worse than some of the collectors items you can get is pointless the number of people spamming the Trade and all channels would decrease massively. A.net expected the people playing the game to be bright enough to work this out but given the number of people who think that GW is Diablo or WoW they may not have thought that one out well.

A.net have stated they are not against farming they are against botting and selling gold on Ebay. And your comparisons to MMORPGs is not helping your case. The problem is again GW was never intended to have an "economy" as such it was never balanced or planned so that there is a finite rate of drops or gold entering the game. Unfortunately some people don't take hints so A.net has gone overboard to stop them and discourage gold for real money trading.

That might actually be a good idea.

To be honest I was quite surprised by this. I was expecting you to ask for mounts like you can get in WoW.

Again you're showing that you don't want GW you want a MMORPG. Guild Wars has no competion at least nothing recent. You could argue that GW is a modern Diablo but even then they have significant differences. Having said that more armour flavours would be nice but not if they're going to be unbalanced or take time from something that is more relevant to GW.

The story is pretty awful but having said that you seem to still be in the MMORPG "I want to be better than them" mindset. If you want to RP a celebration you could do so with your party but what were you expecting? All the other players in the game to bow down because you finished the story same as everyone else has?

You can get all the quests you missed. You just have to go back and find them. And why is it imortant to know what quests you've completed, makes no sense

Uh seems like a difficult to impliment alternative to being organised.

Yup that's the problem with games that require teamwork, you need a team.

The only solution to this is to make monks unnecessary. As long as monks are vital to party they're going to be the number 1 target. Again GW is a game about teamwork not personal glory. A monk is a vital support class so if the oppositon wants to win they're going to take them down first.

That's a good idea, forming PUGs can be a pain at times. Although you do know you can add people by typing their name into the bar next to the add button in the party screen?

Well most of these things are on the way. But even still GHs are mainly for GvG battles not for just hanging about in.

I don't have a problem with this neither would most people I would think. The only problem is getting A.net to impliment it and how are you going to deal with griefers intentionally trying to disrupt RP districts?

The problem here is again you are assuming A.net meant for you to play the game as a "single player" MMORPG as opposed to a balanced team game. W/Mo is going to be the best option for soloing because the game is balanced. The Warrior primary allows them to have the best armour and so take the most damage and the monk side lets them do some healing. I'd be vey worried about the balance of a game in which a mesmer (or equivalent support and denial class) could solo enemies easily.

I agree the ignore system needs to be more powerful but with only limited slots you're going to have trouble adding all the people you need to. Your best bet is to actually ignore them.

You get what you want provided you know what you want. You bought GW expecting a generic MMORPG you got something a bit unique and it's not to your tastes. Your problem, not A.nets. That said GW is not without it's faults, the story is pitiful, the community has far too many leet kiddies and the interface for making parties and trading could do with a few improvements.

You wanted a deep involving RP experience instead you got something to lead you into PvP (which I noticed you didn't even mention). It's a bit like someone who buys Deus Ex expecting Counter Strike, they're going to be dissapointed because they bought the wrong game not because of the games failings. So if you want my advice go back and play WoW, it's what you really want. This game is what I want. I don't want it turned into an inferior WoW clone because if I had wanted WoW thats what I would have bought.

The problem with other games is inflation because of the action house. GW doesn't have an action house and still has inflation.

The problem is buffed weapons even if the buff is small.

A quick solution would be a weapon trader NPC, or an auction house. That would cut down on some of the WTS or WTB. Or a weapon upgrade NPC where you could by the yellow and purple weapons and or upgrades.

The other day I brought a minor rune from another player for 80 gold. Usually that rune at the rune trader is for 125 gold. I saved 45 gold and the other player made 55 gold by not selling it to an NPC.

Another thing that bothers me is person spaming in pre-ascalon buying dies. They buy them for 50 gold !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They are riping of the new players on the game.