wariors are to powerfull!!!

ok i just got this game and i cant see how this is posible! i took a ranger and went to player vs player. I DIED SO FAST! i didnt see but mostly it was some wariors. how can i even play?? they just come up to me and bam im dead!!!
one time i thought okay im goin to win but again a warior comes up and kills me !! again and again.... he was sayoing stufff like HAHA NOOB and YOU SUCK!1~!
Before you say oh it probly didnt hapen that much let me tell you IT HAPPEND LIKE 50 OR 100 TIMES!!
if you ask me thiis game is messed up if a warior can just kill you so fast.

I think it has to do with the fact that you just got the game, and your jumping right into PvP. Make a Role Playing character first and go through the game, to get used to skills and strategies. I say this mainly because warriors are not that powerful damage-wise.

you need to spend more time playing the game...this game rewards skill and intelligence over level and brawn....warriors are junk for PvP....if you know how to attack them

The problem is that rangers aren't meant to just stand there and take damage. You need to outmanuever the warrior by hitting him with something like cripple, then pulling back and smashing conditions on to him. Warriors are meant to charge up, and they will usually win in straight out combat.

My two cents:

Rangers have in in my opinion to low attack speed. It's compared with the warrior hammer attack speed. I'll tell you this:
( ALL RANGERS SUCK, YES ALL )

I've played since the betas and I know a lot about rangers. Rangers would fit you if you and your teammates are rangers combined with 1 spirit each. That's the only reason to play as a ranger.
Rangers suck overall. They're not even good as supporters. Why ?

* To low damage
* Low attackspeed
* No Shield
* Getting out of mana fast

Look at their special attribute called "expertise". It decreases the mana cost for their skills. Seriously, lower mana cost on your skills won't help you kill any enemies. Even if they had the warriors special attribute "Strength" with armor penetration they'd still suck.

The only reason I see to play as a ranger is if they increase the bow damage from 15-28 to 35-48 or even more.
Don't worry starwarsjedi. I can't see anything wrong with you. It's the rangers that are to sucky.

You may call me a "n00b" but everyone in my guild agrees with me.
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Rank: 112

not entirely true paine its the build you run and how you work your rangers

iv seen a group of 4 rangers with dual shot preps and OoV kill a war in less then a second and the monks couldnt even get a heal off before he droped.

not to mention my group runs a huge healing ball and the armor is actually the best in the game. 71 vs phsyical and 100 vs elements wars have 90ish vs physical and 81 vs elements.

not to mention if you have a good secondary you can make a nice condition spread char. true the attack speeds arnt the greatest but if you have a short bow and spam tigers fury you attack faster then any warrior can. its how you run your build and what support you have from your team. now 1v1 vs a warrior you can beat them it just requires tech.

also i have better luck wining in tombs with 5 rangers 3 monks then any other build.

Here is my comment to you post paine.

( ALL RANGERS SUCK, YES ALL )
Just by this I know you know nothing about rangers, and your following comments will be incorrect.

Rangers suck overall. They're not even good as supporters.
Interuption, traps, not to mention we can inflict EVERY kind of condition.

* To low damage:
We only deal low damage if you use the ranger incorrectly. I can kill enemies faster than most of my elementalist friends can.
* Low attackspeed:
We have plenty of skills at our disposal to increase attack speed, and arrow flight time.
* No Shield:
Plenty of other classes don't use shields, we have no disadvantage by not having one.
* Getting out of mana fast:
Expertise.

Look at their special attribute called "expertise". It decreases the mana cost for their skills. Seriously, lower mana cost on your skills won't help you kill any enemies. Even if they had the warriors special attribute "Strength" with armor penetration they'd still suck.:
Expertise allows us to use more skills in a shorter ammount of time than any other class.

You may call me a "n00b" but everyone in my guild agrees with me.
A little advertisement:
Clan Takeda
Rank: 112:
It is apperant now that rank has nothing to do with knowldge of the game.

OOO!!
2 cents is damn right, but you are right about rangers are not meant for straight out fighting

pin down and poison, along with some traps, and a ranger team will win most of the time

low energy? expertise reduces energy cost, and because most ranger skills are instant recharge or recharge in a few secs, you can cast them quite quickly and that is why rangers need expertise, plus it increases effectiveness of all their traps and modifiers like poison and ignite.

Three problems here:

1) Just got the game and neither knows how to play the game nor has any worthwhile pvp skills unlocked. (Can't succeed).

2) Does not have the patience and it seems, isn't willing. (Won't succeed).

3) Atrocious elementary spelling and grammar accompanied by a blatant overuse of emotes.

I'm doing The Wilds right now....my Bow hits for 42-50 dmg without any skills...throw in a barbed trap and a fire trap and Ignite Arrows and I'm doing 100+ dmg per hit....

Tigers Fury, Read the Wind, Favorable Winds,


why would you need a shield? you aren't supposed to be on the front lines. Monks/Mesmers/Elementalists/Necromancers don't use shields either

I only have 27 Mana...and rarely do I ever run out...and if you DO run out of Mana...Marksmans Wager fixes that problem.

You just don't know how to play a ranger....

Once you get all the right skills you should be handling warriors much more efficiently. In PvP Rangesr are good at a few things, mainly a support class to help all other classes, 2nd stopping mesmers and warriors, 3rd Landing that interupt on a monk casting rez and others (like spirit spamming, trapping etc)

If you just jumped in to pvp straight away (i'm assuming ascalon area), you have hardly any good pvp skills to do anything good apart from just do dmg.

My main char is ranger, but I was playing some PvP with a warrior last night and by odd chance was on a team of 3 W / 1 E vs 3 R / 1E. The ranger team cleaned our clocks 14 to 2. Pin down, crippling shot, traps...it was ugly. I could never get my swordsman to grips for long enough to kill one...

rangers PWN man u can slowly drain the shit out of people pin em down then just keep that poison arrow on em specially if u have kindle arrows + attack speed boost like lightning reflexes or that other one or u could have warrior side for attack speed their so awesome thats why a team of rngs pwn their spirits done bother them and they hurt others and they especially rock if u focus fire

and did u mean rank or fame? cause 112 fame sorta SUCKS most people who have rank 5+ these days got alot oftheir fame when it was ez as hell to get

i hate newbs who decide to post yet they know nothing

If rangers suck for the reasons of:
* To low damage
* Low attackspeed
* No Shield
* Getting out of mana fast

Then I guess heal/protect monks suck too. They barely do any damage if they even attack, they have low attack speed with their pathetic wands. They gain no advantage with shields, and will almost always run out of mana. And big whoop, they can heal, every class can heal. (Being sarcastic incase someone didn't know).

Those reasons are absoultely 100% biased towards warriors, thats the only class that can easily fit all 4 of those reasons, even though warriors are't too great at damage and almost never use mana. And if your guild all agrees with you that "rangers suck" (which I highly doubt) then I'm guessing your either a liar, or rank means absoultely nothing.

i have 3 char and my first was a ranger and i love him becaouse of the unique ness of their skills. if you know how to use a ranger right you can easily take out warrior. and expertise lowers alot of skills low cost considering most ranger elites only cost 5 energy. barrage is a good example which combine with lighting reflexes, conjure flame, you cand deal masive damge and fire damge, that the wayi got around not being able to use iginte or kindle arrows. and in pvp if you have some organsed rangers say 4 if they have at least 10 expetise they can lay about 10 traps each before they expire if if the other teams wariors were to walk into that that be to much damge and they be dead almost instanly if not they would be burning, cripled, bleeding, knocked down, and like most rangers they would folow up wiht poison arrow, and maybe if they wer mesmer secondary epidemic

A bow is 14% slower than a hammer, and deals 20% less damage per hit. Thus without considering any skills or buffs, one would conclude that the ranger deals roughly 70% of warrior damage. You can add more to the model, but the end result doesn't change much.


Then you know that they've fluctuated in power heavily, from nigh-unplayable to a concensus best class in the game. They're somewhere in between now, about where they should be.


This doesn't make any sense.


70% of what a warrior or elementalist will deal over time. For a class with an order of magnitude more utility, this is bad why?


Eh? How exactly does this hurt the ranger in PvP? So you lose out on some armor and defensive buffs. Should we care? You're a low priority target, and even if you do get spiked you have the best spike-resistance armor in the game.

Or, from the other direction, hammer warriors don't get shields either. That certainly has held them back.


Ok, now I know you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Rangers have the smoothest energy in the game once you pump up your Expertise. You have to be doing something pretty extreme to run out of energy in under 30 seconds as a Ranger. No, running Tiger's Fury constantly, stacking a prep and using nothing but attack skills is not extreme.


Yep, Rangers have the hands-down best primary attribute in the game. It's downright insane at higher levels - any good ranger will become intimately familiar with their Expertise break points for maximum effectiveness.


You're joking, right? What, do you try and kill things using normal attacks? Do you wand your enemies to death when you play an elementalist? Didn't think so. You use skills. If you're playing a ranger, you should be milking Expertise for all its worth and activating skills faster than any other class.

If you're not, just what exactly are you doing with your Ranger?


Actually, if the ranger had strength instead of expertise they *would* suck. Unless you really want Strength skills at high levels for your build, Strength is a dump point attribute. The damage bonus is negligible. Why anyone would ever want that over the best energy management attribute in the game, I don't know.


This is simply because you have absolutely no clue how to either build or play a ranger. You boost the damage output of the ranger by 20%, and they would replace warriors and elementalists as the damage dealers of choice. This isn't idle speculation at all - before they nerfed ranger damage they *were* the best damage dealers in the game. Now they're simply very good single-target damage dealers with a lot more utility. Why this is a bad thing, I still do not understand.


Further proof that both the level of knowledge in this game, and the level of competition on the ladder are very, very poor.


If you just jumped into Ascalon Arena and got beat up there by warriors, that's not surprising. Rangers are a particularly weak class at low levels, as they need Expertise to truly shine and that attribute is horribly backloaded. Warriors on the other hand are nice and steady, about as good at level 3 as they'll be at level 20. Warriors are the absolute kings of Ascalon Arena, no question.

You're not going to be a strong character until level 15, and you won't even approach the power of the other classes until you're close to ascension and doing the attribute point quests. Just take your lumps early and enjoy the distinct feeling of progress that you'll get as you level.

Peace,
-CxE

rangers get a lot of good skills later on in the game. a waste IMO that some of the most fun to use skills for any class are at the end of the game.

warriors are not overpowered though. they're easily stopped. pin down alone will give you a nice edge against them.

edit: stack bleeding and poison arrow on them to make them sweat

Amnisac & Ensign, you still can't release the fact that rangers suck.
Why?
Because you're one of them. You may think and experiment with different kind of tactics but you can never kill someone in 1 vs 1, and if you can't survive in 1 vs 1 then you're weak. You'll probably get it when you get royaly owned one day and realise that you're not doing a shit to help your team. Your arguments don't make any sense.
Get yourself a monk and support your teammates orderly, that's much more better.

If all you care about is 1v1, shouldn't you go back to Diablo?

So how about a healing monk 1 v 1? Then you'll be the weakest?

Also played since the beta. Got some xP tho. You got the point there Paine. These guys love ya. They just can't admit it =)

I'm not going to get involved in this debate, but I do want to solve 1 simple math problem:

71(p) + 100(e) = 171 total for ranger, or an average of 85.5
90(p) + 81(e) = 171 total for warrior, or an average of 85.5



Call me crazy, but if those look like they have the same value... "I'm the same as you, that means I am the best in the game" OH! I get it now, my bad.

However much I want to argue that rangers CAN kill someone in 1v1, I won't.

1v1 is the worst possible comparison anyone can use. Guild Wars is a TEAM game, no class is designed to be able to win alone. I guarantee any class in this game can be defeated by any other class if they know what they're doing.

The only reason that you can't see how helpful rangers are is that they aren't flashy. Eles have huge spells that you can SEE hit enemies. Warriors are always in the fight and seem to be bringing down all the enemies. Monks are always there to heal, a visible effect. Mesmers, Necros, and Rangers have nothing flashy. Sure maybe a Well here or there, or maybe an enemy monk isn't healing as good as he can. Or mabye an Ele keeps getting interupted, but no one notices these changes as much as things like damage and healing.

I have won in an all ranger RANDOM group against a team with 2 warriors and 2 monks. No one left, we fought it out and we won fair and square. I did the same thing in Team Arenas with 3 rangers and a monk, and we won twice out of 3 matches. Sure maybe they aren't as competetive as HoH, but I know people that have won in HoH with ranger based groups.

You obviously are one of those people that have no idea what they're talking about and simply base classes on how good they look in a party.

quoted for emphasis

Paine: You're wrong, Ensign's right. Following your lead, I will justify myself with nothing more than silly worthless handwaving --
Clan: Final Dynasty
Ladder Rank: 13

A well played ranger can give a team more trouble than you can possibly imagine. The following is not an example of something good to do with a ranger:

Psst, here's a fun way to run out of energy really fast on a ranger -- quickening zephyr, tiger's fury, quick shot spam. Even with 14 expertise and a zealous bow, I only have about 10 seconds worth of shortbow uzi-ing. Oh well )=

Paine. You obviosly don't know what your talking about. Everyone except 1 or 2 people who posted in this have agreed rangers do not suck. I have played every class there is, my favorites remain to be Ranger, and Elementalist, But I always go back to ranger beacuse it has the BEST of every other class. It's like all classes combined.

I have to say this:
ArenaNet would not make a class if it was useless, and was downright terrible. They just wouldn't.

BTW: Mesmer sucks, mainly for the same reasons you stated in your first post. I mean fast casting, that just makes the run out of energy faster right! (this is sarcasm, please don't flame me like we have been flaming paine.)

Rangers require brains and skill... W/Mo's require neither... and a Ranger will laugh at the burning crippled bleeding poisoned warrior trying to chase him.... hahaha

I can't 'release'(?) the fact that Rangers suck because it's patently not true.

To speak of different gametypes:

Rangers are poor in low level PvE. No Expertise, no skill selection, and no complex enemies to pick apart = stuck twiddling their thumbs.

Rangers are excellent in high level PvE. Expertise gives them the staying power for longer battles, and good skill selection makes them one of the best classes to pick apart known strategies and mob AI.

Arena is probably the Ranger's strongest area, because the class is so self contained. The game is slow enough that you'll have time to work, and you can pack hate for the inevitible one on one fights you'll find yourself in.

Tombs, on the other hand, is not particularly favorable to the Ranger. Many of the gametypes there put a lot of emphesis on speed, making it so that many of the Ranger's strengths just can't keep up.

Then there's GvG, another spot where the Ranger shines. Why? Because GvG is oftentimes a siege, fighting over positioning and control and working the other team down.


The example that pops to mind is the IVEX trapper. I'm sure that a lot of people take that character into Tombs, see how poorly he functions there, and wonder what the hell the big deal was. Which is unfortunate, because from where I'm sitting the IVEX trapper is the most complex, most informative, and ultimately the most useful of the premades (the Fi Booner is in the running, though). The trick is that the trapper is not a Tombs build - it's a GvG build. While I have my personal disagreements over a couple of the skill choices, I think that looking at that character and understanding the skill choices goes a long way towards understanding how and why people win in GvG.

I've played against IVEX several times, and while I still feel that the skill of their Monks is their greatest asset, of their offensive players the trapper is probably the one with the most noticible impact. Underrate it at your own peril.


So your argument is that my defense of the Ranger is invalid because I'm too biased to make an objective argument? Please. For the record, all things being equal I'm playing a Monk.

But I shouldn't even need to refute this. I'm one of the harshest critics of game balance there is, with a proven track record of being a thorn in the dev's sides. But even beyond that, I'm making arguments based upon merit. The fact that I'm making them, or someone with no reputation whatsoever is making them, should be irrelevant.

That Rangers are the most tactical class should not be argued. That a highly disruptive, hard to break tactical damage dealer will find use in gametypes that reward such things (high level PvE, GvG) should be obvious.

I have to wonder if people just notice that rangers suck in the beginning (when they're forming their initial judgements, and noticing that rangers suck is 100% accurate), then see that they can't dish out a 300 damage spike in Tombs or whatever and dismiss the class entirely. Of course this is so foolish it hurts. If all we cared about was usefulness in low level PvP and damage spikes, no one would use hammers, either.


So this is the new standard? A class, or a build, has to be good at dueling to be considered a viable profession choice?

I don't even know where to begin with this argument. How about we just take it to the logical extreme, and declare that Mesmer is the only good class?

Or do you doubt that any 1v1 arena, if implemented, would degenerate into anything other than Mesmers getting into control duels?

What does this have to do with anything?


Your failure to understand my arguments are not a reflection upon their strength.

I will mention, however, that I am the only one making arguments to defend my position.


Well as previously mentioned I do play Monk all else being equal. Still, I fail to see how that is relevant considering that this game, at least the later parts of it, is based not upon the individual character but the eight man team. Now that Monks have a monopoly on a couple of those slots is not up for debate. The question is, of course 'why are Rangers *never* the right choice for one or more of the other slots on an eight man team?'

Which, I'll wager, cannot be answered.

Peace,
-CxE

Competition arenas are nothing, even though I did use them as an example in my previous post. However, I also mentioned all the classes involved in the battle. Also, killing someone means nothing. Maybe you just attacked them when they were already being slapped silly by someone else. Was that in 3 seperate arenas, or all at once. I've killed a warrior and at least 2 monks in one battle in the Tombs with my ranger, I guess that means monks and warriors suck too.

It seems you didn't get my point either: you're an idiot, and apparently proud of it. Thanks for playing.

Peace,
-CxE

So far at this site I have seen posts and replies regarding all professions, from what i have gathered...according to everyone, all professions suck and all skills suck. everyone has a back and forth argument about what is good and what is not.

Pick the one you think looks the coolest and sucks the least and select his/hers sucky skills and get adjusted to them till they suck less.

It is all a matter of personal prefrence. If you want to win, get in a teamspeak guild and play together for a while, see how you all play together and then see how you feel.

Don't forget that everyone sucks, too. So does your guild.


Can't say I agree with that. Some strategies and tactics are simply better than others. The trick, is figuring out which are the best, and with all the variety in this game it's not a simple task.

Of course closeminded name calling is a whole lot easier. =p

Peace,
-CxE

wow paine I think you just opened up a world of hell for yourself ..... >_> <_< BOO PAINE!

(I had to jump on the bandwagon)


oh and yes, one more thing:

Paine, stop f****** with Ensign, he'll just pwn you over and over and over.

I respectfully disagree. I think every class, skill, and strategy is ludicrously overpowered, and they all deserve to be either severely nerfed or removed from the game entirely.

Congratulations. You are the best Guild Wars player. I bet you could single handedly dispatch the top five Guilds on the ladder.

Have you watched 75% of the Rangers in the Competition Arenas play? They're terrible, and their builds are terrible. You're basically bragging that you 'owned' a one-legged man at an ass-kicking contest. The Competition Arena is not exactly the picture of Guild Wars PvP.

P.S. Your bragging about 'Owning' in the Competition Arena and thinking you know better than -Ensign- of all people pretty much destroys any credibility you have and will ever have here.

Did you try changing your build? Did you try using stances to make yourself invulnerable? Did you try ... I dunno... common sense? There's no excuses for you dying instantly. Especially to warriors who aren't all that bad. My elementalist could probably kill several at one time without sustaining any damage, and his armour sucks compared to other classes.


Oh, by the way, Ensign isn't always right... just 99.999999 percent of the time.

I'm not so sure that you can really say that some strategies and tactics are better, though you also can't say it's personal preference. This game is like rock, paper, scissors with thousands of options. Some of them beat more of them than others, but they can all be beaten. So while some are better than others most of the time, I don't believe that there are any that are anywhere near always better. Of course, when you combine a team of perfectly corresponding builds... then your chances improve exponetially.

Just my two cents.

Okay... if everyone's done fighting over who's right and wrong and why rangers suck and don't suck, I'd like to address the opening poster.

Starwarsjedi... okay here's your first problem straight off, drop the jedi. Sith are the only way that can lead to power . Second, don't sweat getting owned. How much faith would you have in the game if you could jump into a game and beat people who have been playing for 2 months or longer? The first few posts hit it pretty smack on, the rest you could probably ignore since it's just squabbling. A ranger isn't meant to take direct dmg, a warrior is meant to eat you at close range. All the classes are meant to support each other so if you're going one on one, you have to really think about your skill sets and what you're doing.

My advice (apart from the jedi/sith thing) is to play PvE for a while, get used to the controls and hotkeys, get used to your class, get used to using your skills in both normal and critical situations. People often say that levels 1-20 is like a tutorial. I don't exactly see it that way, but it's a beautiful analogy. By the time you get to level 20 on PvE you will understand your character enough to at least put up a fight in PvP. It may not help you to win, since human players behave vastly different from computer AI, but it will help you to know your own class and skill sets. And by the time you get through the game you'll have made enough online friends and been able to ask enough questions that you'll have better ideas about tactics and strategies in general.

Don't sweat it dude, getting owned is part of becoming the ninja you were born to be!

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

sith rock!