http://guildwars.com/gameinfo/guilds...ts-of-war.html
for those who dont check the main site often
Guild of the week #2
worthless
Sausaletus Rex
Congratulations SoW! They've always been a fun group to play with or against. And some very solid tips and advice there.
But....Freyas doesn't rate a profile? I claim anti-Guru bias! He only showed them the glory of GvG combat, after all... :P
But....Freyas doesn't rate a profile? I claim anti-Guru bias! He only showed them the glory of GvG combat, after all... :P
LoneDust
Spirits of War (SoW) is a smallish guild made up of 40 members
if 40 is small-ish, my guild of 8 members is the size of an amoeba.
if 40 is small-ish, my guild of 8 members is the size of an amoeba.
Arcala
Congratulations, SoW. 
-Arc
-Arc
Aladdar
well compared to 10000 people last week I'd say 40 is small.
Spooky
Anti-Guru Bias indeed.
Well, we can always make Freyas "Mod of the Week" .. even if that does sound like he's some kind of new-fangled way of playing Half-Life.
Well, we can always make Freyas "Mod of the Week" .. even if that does sound like he's some kind of new-fangled way of playing Half-Life.
Soiled Egg Roll
Congratulations, SoW. I can't read the interviews now, but I know it will be interesting .
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Cain
Thanks guys.
I can't read the article though as my work blocks out the guild wars site.
Oh and the reason Freyas' profile wasn't shown was because of the coverage for his Assassin Build.
I can't read the article though as my work blocks out the guild wars site.
Oh and the reason Freyas' profile wasn't shown was because of the coverage for his Assassin Build.
TheRealDecoy
I kinda skipped through it until I saw "Use the random Arenas to test individual character builds." and stopped reading.
Adaria
Why do I get the feeling they're going to pick guilds that have websites and over twenty members at least for the Guilds of the Week? o.o;
*wonders how they pick them anyway o.O;*
*wonders how they pick them anyway o.O;*
Spooky
I don't know what the exact criteria is for being selected as "Guild of the Week", and even if I did - I wouldn't be able to tell anyone, but based on general observation: Guilds being selected are Guilds that are in the Alpha test. It seems like a logical conclusion that they might be doing features on groups that go above and beyond in their contributions, yes no?
Cain
Quote:
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Originally Posted by TheRealDecoy
I kinda skipped through it until I saw "Use the random Arenas to test individual character builds." and stopped reading.
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Freyas
As Cain said, my profile wasn't in there due to coverage elsewhere in the article- it wouldn't be good for me to hog all the attention 
RealDecoy- the random arenas are good for practicing your skills and testing combo's. The real test for a build happens in 8vs8, but as Cain pointed out, you don't want to be running with a character you're not familiar with when fighting skilled teams. The arenas can get you some practice with your character in a setting where you don't really care if you win or lose. So long as you know the difference between random 4vs4 pvp and 8vs8 pvp, you can get some good practice in for your build. Success in the arena doesn't mean that your build is good, but playing in the arena can get you accustomed to your skills and help you identify problems such as energy management concerns.
The assassin build we ran was fairly similar to the build I posted in an article here. Many of the skills have been changed since that point, leading to the build not really being viable now:the effect of Grenth's Balance has been capped to your maximum health, and rituals have a limited area of effect. However, the build was insanely fun to play, even many of the matches where we lost. The build was an attempt to show that you could be successful by thinking "outside of the box", and I think it worked quite well for that. Since then we've been running different builds with various themes- knockdown+aftershock, fragility+conditions, and similar sorts of ideas.
Thanks for the congrats anyhow, and it was definately an honor to be chosen for Guild of the Week!
RealDecoy- the random arenas are good for practicing your skills and testing combo's. The real test for a build happens in 8vs8, but as Cain pointed out, you don't want to be running with a character you're not familiar with when fighting skilled teams. The arenas can get you some practice with your character in a setting where you don't really care if you win or lose. So long as you know the difference between random 4vs4 pvp and 8vs8 pvp, you can get some good practice in for your build. Success in the arena doesn't mean that your build is good, but playing in the arena can get you accustomed to your skills and help you identify problems such as energy management concerns.
The assassin build we ran was fairly similar to the build I posted in an article here. Many of the skills have been changed since that point, leading to the build not really being viable now:the effect of Grenth's Balance has been capped to your maximum health, and rituals have a limited area of effect. However, the build was insanely fun to play, even many of the matches where we lost. The build was an attempt to show that you could be successful by thinking "outside of the box", and I think it worked quite well for that. Since then we've been running different builds with various themes- knockdown+aftershock, fragility+conditions, and similar sorts of ideas.
Thanks for the congrats anyhow, and it was definately an honor to be chosen for Guild of the Week!
Doctor
Coolness, grats on being guild of the week.
Darc.Syde
Quote:
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Originally Posted by TheRealDecoy
I kinda skipped through it until I saw "Use the random Arenas to test individual character builds." and stopped reading.
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TheRealDecoy
Something about testing a build in random 4v4 matches when that build is mainly going to be used in organized 8v8 doesn't make much sense to me, but what do I know? Maybe there is in fact something horribly wrong about just testing a build in the Tombs and losing a few matches that I don't know about.
Oh wait, maybe it's because you guys are so used to testing builds in the Arena in the alpha since there aren't enough players to fill the tombs. I get it now. Thanks.
Oh wait, maybe it's because you guys are so used to testing builds in the Arena in the alpha since there aren't enough players to fill the tombs. I get it now. Thanks.
Ensign
I'll agree with what has been said about the arenas being a good place for preliminary tests of a character. I wouldn't be reading much into how *effective* a character is based upon some arena runs - arena PvP is far too random for that. But if you've just slapped together a new build, running it through the arena a couple times will give a good feel for things like:
- Energy management. If a character runs out of energy quickly, or has more than he knows what to do with, it'll jump out at you in a dry run.
- Ease of use. Just how easy is it to land an interrupt? Do skills queue up nicely or do you have to time things perfectly?
- Key skills. Play a build for ten minutes and the most important skills on the bar start to jump out, and those which are expendable sit there unused.
Plus you just get a general feeling for how a build plays - a bit of practice in a situation that doesn't matter. On top of that it's a great place to check if skills and combos actually work as advertised. Do skills stack as advertised? There's no better way to find out than to test it yourself, and PvP characters in the arena are the fastest route to a field testing.
I wouldn't take the arena seriously, or read anything into success or failure there - but for quick, dry runs and a bit of field testing, it can't be beat.
Peace,
-CxE
- Energy management. If a character runs out of energy quickly, or has more than he knows what to do with, it'll jump out at you in a dry run.
- Ease of use. Just how easy is it to land an interrupt? Do skills queue up nicely or do you have to time things perfectly?
- Key skills. Play a build for ten minutes and the most important skills on the bar start to jump out, and those which are expendable sit there unused.
Plus you just get a general feeling for how a build plays - a bit of practice in a situation that doesn't matter. On top of that it's a great place to check if skills and combos actually work as advertised. Do skills stack as advertised? There's no better way to find out than to test it yourself, and PvP characters in the arena are the fastest route to a field testing.
I wouldn't take the arena seriously, or read anything into success or failure there - but for quick, dry runs and a bit of field testing, it can't be beat.
Peace,
-CxE
TheRealDecoy
I don't want to push this thread off-topic, but it still makes little sense to me as to why it isn't better to just run the build in the tombs. All the "testing" you can do in the arenas you can do better in the tombs because it better simulates the conditions you'll be playing the build in. To me it would just seem like a matter of getting into a PUG and testing it out. What's the worst that can happen? The group calls you an idiot and kicks you out of the group? Assuming that this game is as popular as people say it will be finding another PUG to test your tweaked build shouldn't be too hard.
Sausaletus Rex
I see your point, Chuckles, but I tend to agree with Decoy. If you really want to test a build the best place is the Tombs. Just join up with a PUG and play a few rounds, make a run or so. You'll get a much better party, hopefully, than what the Arena spits out at you and you'll test it in a much more competitive and relevant situation to what you're likely to be facing with it.
That said, the Arena's cheap and easy. If you don't have a lot of time to spend, it's easy to just head there and get in a round or three in the time it takes you to get out of the lobby in the Tombs. I'm not saying that testing your builds there is a bad idea. Testing your builds is important, getting familiar with them is important. It's just that the Arena is a flawed place to get much more out of the testing that how your combos, timing, and management and all that works. You don't get a sense of whether or not it's effective and that's the imprtant thing when testing a build. Unless you're planning on playing in the Arena you just don't get much out of testing there.
Of course, the best way to test your build is along with the people who'll be using the rest of it. If you've got a GvG match set-up, get your team team together and head to the Tombs for a few rounds. Or fight a few GvGs against some weaker guilds lower on the ladder by challenging them. Whatever, you're a team and you need to practice as a team. Testing the individual bits leads you to think of yourself as an individual rather than as a team. Practicing together you get used to each other, used to the way your characters work together, used to communicating, used to your strengths and weaknesses and all the rest.
That said, the Arena's cheap and easy. If you don't have a lot of time to spend, it's easy to just head there and get in a round or three in the time it takes you to get out of the lobby in the Tombs. I'm not saying that testing your builds there is a bad idea. Testing your builds is important, getting familiar with them is important. It's just that the Arena is a flawed place to get much more out of the testing that how your combos, timing, and management and all that works. You don't get a sense of whether or not it's effective and that's the imprtant thing when testing a build. Unless you're planning on playing in the Arena you just don't get much out of testing there.
Of course, the best way to test your build is along with the people who'll be using the rest of it. If you've got a GvG match set-up, get your team team together and head to the Tombs for a few rounds. Or fight a few GvGs against some weaker guilds lower on the ladder by challenging them. Whatever, you're a team and you need to practice as a team. Testing the individual bits leads you to think of yourself as an individual rather than as a team. Practicing together you get used to each other, used to the way your characters work together, used to communicating, used to your strengths and weaknesses and all the rest.
Pharalon
Personally, I always find the arena to be the best place to break in a build, simply because the quality of the opposition is lower. It gives you time to analyse things as you play, get used to the order you need to hit keybinds in (especially important for a time-crititical setup). You also have a much quicker match turnover, which is handy is you're makingtweaks as you go along. Both GvG and Tombs are too hectic for this, and generally a little too competitive as well. You break a character in in the arena so you can do the build justice, then see if it actually works in GvG.
Now if there was a guild member sparring grounds, this would be a non issue....
Now if there was a guild member sparring grounds, this would be a non issue....
Darc.Syde
we do test team builds in tombs, we test individual builds in arena. there is something different about tombs and gvg. a build that loses in tombs alot may have a different out come in gvg becuase gvg is 1vs1 and tombs can be more. also, gvg is a seesaw battle, just becuase your team can role another team in tombs, may not say the same in gvg.
Deadroot
Congrats to SoW, a great group of players. I've had the privilage of playing with and against them many times, and win or lose, it's always fun 
Indeed, but how long do they plan on doing the whole Guild of the Week thing? I was under the impression that they would start picking out prominate guilds from the game after its released who may not have been in the testing.
Quote:
| I don't know what the exact criteria is for being selected as "Guild of the Week", and even if I did - I wouldn't be able to tell anyone, but based on general observation: Guilds being selected are Guilds that are in the Alpha test. It seems like a logical conclusion that they might be doing features on groups that go above and beyond in their contributions, yes no? |
TheRealDecoy
Quote:
| we do test team builds in tombs, we test individual builds in arena. there is something different about tombs and gvg. a build that loses in tombs alot may have a different out come in gvg becuase gvg is 1vs1 and tombs can be more. also, gvg is a seesaw battle, just becuase your team can role another team in tombs, may not say the same in gvg. |
Darc.Syde
they may throw a wrench in the theory and intrview the Mantle Rangers next
well, i could name a few, and them name situations where the better team gets sandwiched between 2 other teams... these are the cases where a wellrounded and sound gvg build could fall in tombs. anything will fall in 16v8 match...
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Originally Posted by TheRealDecoy
Give me one example of a build that doesn't work in Tombs but works perfectly in GvG and I'll agree with you. Until then, though, I remain committed to my opinion that Tombs is where you really want to test your build and the Arenas are for boons.
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TheRealDecoy
In which situation are you going to learn more about your individual/team build: a random 4v4 or the tombs where you might end up in an organized 8v8v8 (and that's after probably playing a few 8v8s to get there)? The organized 8v8v8 is a lot closer to what you'll be facing than a 4v4 full of random idiots.
I'm sure a build using Wastrel's Worry would work fine in the Arena. Does that mean it'll work well in Tombs/GvG? If you want to see how a build will work in a competitive match then you need to test it in a competitive match.
Also, for those citing the short turnover of the Arena: WTF? Are you that impatient to not take the time to properly and thoroughly test your build in the Tombs because it takes a little longer to get into a match?
Quote:
| I always find the arena to be the best place to break in a build, simply because the quality of the opposition is lower |
Also, for those citing the short turnover of the Arena: WTF? Are you that impatient to not take the time to properly and thoroughly test your build in the Tombs because it takes a little longer to get into a match?
Darc.Syde
well, first you have to realize and know what you're testing. in arena, you dont test synergy between player's characters, instead, you test the consistency and problems of an individual build.
TheRealDecoy
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Originally Posted by Darc.Syde
well, first you have to realize and know what you're testing. in arena, you dont test synergy between player's characters, instead, you test the consistency and problems of an individual build.
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Darc.Syde
tombs battles take way to long to get into compared to arena. basicly, arena is quicker in, no need to find a group, no need to fight wardens, etc...
TheRealDecoy
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Darc.Syde
tombs battles take way to long to get into compared to arena. basicly, arena is quicker in, no need to find a group, no need to fight wardens, etc...
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KamiCrazy
Given the choice of testing a build first hand in arena or tombs I'd rather test in arena for the first few fights.
Arena is far more flexible and easier to accustom to. You might not find that to be true but the fact remains that many people do find this to be true.
If you go to tombs with a new build and get rolled in 2 mins and you're standing there going "what the hell happened?, you won't learn much.
Arena is far more flexible and easier to accustom to. You might not find that to be true but the fact remains that many people do find this to be true.
If you go to tombs with a new build and get rolled in 2 mins and you're standing there going "what the hell happened?, you won't learn much.
Jak o
It sounds like you have misunderstood what they mean by testing in the arena TheRealDecoy. You only use it for things like, getting familiar with where the skills are on your skillbar, get a feel for how the energy management are and the dps/hps is. In fact these things are sometimes actually easier to test in pve, since you don't have to worry about someone doing something to prevent what you do, and such just making the test harder. But the arena has the advantage that you can test the build against many combinations of skills.
In tombs the there is several things that makes such testing harder, it takes a lot longer to get into battle. First you have to find a pug, then you have to fight wardens and then you have to wait for the match to start, and then you have to get into combat. When you then get to the fighting part you might be interrupted, your target might be protected .... All things pretty much ruining your test of the basic part of the build.
If you have used a build similar to the one you wanna test, maybe swicthing from a Mo/E healer to a Mo/W healer you of course don't need that basic testing, and can therefore go straight into tombs.
Edit: Completely forgot to reply to the topic
Congrats to SoW, you are defenetly a fun guild to play against in pvp. You are one of the guilds where we look forward to a real fight when the battle starts and we see your names. Furthermore I like the fact that you are so active in the alpha testing, always having teams at the all calls and such. Good choice Anet.
In tombs the there is several things that makes such testing harder, it takes a lot longer to get into battle. First you have to find a pug, then you have to fight wardens and then you have to wait for the match to start, and then you have to get into combat. When you then get to the fighting part you might be interrupted, your target might be protected .... All things pretty much ruining your test of the basic part of the build.
If you have used a build similar to the one you wanna test, maybe swicthing from a Mo/E healer to a Mo/W healer you of course don't need that basic testing, and can therefore go straight into tombs.
Edit: Completely forgot to reply to the topic
Congrats to SoW, you are defenetly a fun guild to play against in pvp. You are one of the guilds where we look forward to a real fight when the battle starts and we see your names. Furthermore I like the fact that you are so active in the alpha testing, always having teams at the all calls and such. Good choice Anet.
Cain
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jak o
It sounds like you have misunderstood what they mean by testing in the arena TheRealDecoy. You only use it for things like, getting familiar with where the skills are on your skillbar, get a feel for how the energy management are and the dps/hps is. In fact these things are sometimes actually easier to test in pve, since you don't have to worry about someone doing something to prevent what you do, and such just making the test harder. But the arena has the advantage that you can test the build against many combinations of skills.
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Thanks for your kind words too.
Saidin
Guess I should delurk to say thanks
And I also use the arena to test individual builds, and we DO use the tombs to pre-run builds to see if a certain team of 8 is going to gel. Especially if its just random skills or random classes. Its nice to run the characters in the arena to see if the skills are even going to work on the class, and then run the team in the tombs to see if they can actually win. And then finally move to gvg's where it actually counts.
And I also use the arena to test individual builds, and we DO use the tombs to pre-run builds to see if a certain team of 8 is going to gel. Especially if its just random skills or random classes. Its nice to run the characters in the arena to see if the skills are even going to work on the class, and then run the team in the tombs to see if they can actually win. And then finally move to gvg's where it actually counts.
Cain
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Saidin
Guess I should delurk to say thanks
And I also use the arena to test individual builds, and we DO use the tombs to pre-run builds to see if a certain team of 8 is going to gel. Especially if its just random skills or random classes. Its nice to run the characters in the arena to see if the skills are even going to work on the class, and then run the team in the tombs to see if they can actually win. And then finally move to gvg's where it actually counts. |
Darc.Syde
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Saidin
Guess I should delurk to say thanks
And I also use the arena to test individual builds, and we DO use the tombs to pre-run builds to see if a certain team of 8 is going to gel. Especially if its just random skills or random classes. Its nice to run the characters in the arena to see if the skills are even going to work on the class, and then run the team in the tombs to see if they can actually win. And then finally move to gvg's where it actually counts. |
Sausaletus Rex
It's a grand conspiracy to lay claim to vengeance for the rampant anti-Guru bias in your guild. :P
No, it's that Saidin was around in the anceint prehistory of things here when we were much better about giving people the proper titles. I think there was a post about it that got lost in the wash somewhere but if you're a tester and you don't have the fancy blue-ish name, get in touch with one of the staff here and we'll set you up.
No, it's that Saidin was around in the anceint prehistory of things here when we were much better about giving people the proper titles. I think there was a post about it that got lost in the wash somewhere but if you're a tester and you don't have the fancy blue-ish name, get in touch with one of the staff here and we'll set you up.
Cain
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sausaletus Rex
It's a grand conspiracy to lay claim to vengeance for the rampant anti-Guru bias in your guild. :P
No, it's that Saidin was around in the anceint prehistory of things here when we were much better about giving people the proper titles. I think there was a post about it that got lost in the wash somewhere but if you're a tester and you don't have the fancy blue-ish name, get in touch with one of the staff here and we'll set you up. |
Odd Sock
I agree with going to Arena to break in a build. If you've played a ranger all this time and switch to Wa/Mo for example, you'll need some time to break it in. If you bring a new build to tombs then your chances of success are far much less than if you took it 4 or 5 times in Arena. This is especially true if you're trying a BiP or Order build where your teammate's success depends on yours. Personally I think the best thing to do is go in arena when no guildies are on then whe you can have 8 go to tombs and practice some more there. Best is to combine both.