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Skills - Judge's Insight
Guild Wars Guru
pyth0n
isn't holy damage ignoring the armor?
Jelloblimp
Edit: I was slightly wrong, holy treats all targets as having 60 Armor Level which means damage will always be as listed on skill. Penetrating attacks can treat/ignore Armor Rating so you do more than listed damage.
100% Armor Penetration would treat the target as having 0 Armor Level & that would mean the actual damage will be higher than listed in skill.
this thread has good explanations & there is a damage calculator on frontpage.
100% Armor Penetration would treat the target as having 0 Armor Level & that would mean the actual damage will be higher than listed in skill.
this thread has good explanations & there is a damage calculator on frontpage.
Slade xTekno
If what Jello said is true, attacks against a 60 AL target will do 23.11% more damage under Judge's Insight. Since Rangers and Warriors usually have a greater AL, it will do more yet against them.
Aernbach
What if i have lets say kindle arrows prep that deal fire dmg. Will all dmg (bow + prep) be holy or just that dealed by bow ?
Tubward
where do i get this skill i forget
Gerbill
You get it in the Courthouse north of Nolani Academy
Rajamic
I'm pretty sure Judge's Insight doesn't make weapons ignore armor, but does sidestep all the +X AL vs. Physical and +Y AL vs. Elemental
Volten
Do this skill work on spells or its melee attacks only?
AncientBeerMan
This spell works with wands,staffs,hammers,axes,swords,and bows.You can't use a skill like flar and change it to holy damage.Only regular attacks work with this.
Quiddler
^ and pets 
Former Ruling
Good for [X]/mo's (warriors and rangers come to mind) in later parts of PvE - where undead and shades and such are common (Holy dmg DEVASTATES Undead types).
and only the duration is moded by smiting attribute - so you dont need any points in smiting to get full effect out of it (maybe 2-3 lvls used from left over attribute points to get its duration over its recharge time..but not needed).
and only the duration is moded by smiting attribute - so you dont need any points in smiting to get full effect out of it (maybe 2-3 lvls used from left over attribute points to get its duration over its recharge time..but not needed).
Whitefeather
Fill me in if I'm thinking crazy here...
If Judges Insight sets armour levels to 60 due to holy damage...
And weaken armour gives you -20 armour... And penetrating attack for rangers gives you another -20 armour... AND Judges gives the initial -20...
Aren't you techinically Hitting someone with -0- armour?
If Judges Insight sets armour levels to 60 due to holy damage...
And weaken armour gives you -20 armour... And penetrating attack for rangers gives you another -20 armour... AND Judges gives the initial -20...
Aren't you techinically Hitting someone with -0- armour?
batou
no, i believe that judges insight does not set armor to 60..., it just changes the damage to holy; holy damage may ignore armor in most cases, but not with this enchantment.
Whitefeather
But wouldn't said build/attack setting still do -60 To someones armour?
batou
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitefeather
But wouldn't said build/attack setting still do -60 To someones armour?
???????
Whitefeather
By using Judges insight, I do -20 armour penetration, If I couple that with a necro using "Weaken armour" thats another -20 to armour, if I couple ALL that with "Penetrating attack" Isn't that just like having a -60 armour curse?
Misc Merik
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitefeather
By using Judges insight, I do -20 armour penetration, If I couple that with a necro using "Weaken armour" thats another -20 to armour, if I couple ALL that with "Penetrating attack" Isn't that just like having a -60 armour curse?
Not quite I always saw it as you get the armor pen bonus from all those skills but with weaken armor they have less base al so your armor pen stat just acknowledges the new base al till the hex wears off. just how I see it working. Though there is alot of people saying that str,insight,penetrating attack dont stack with the armor pen Id really like a solid answer to that.
Whitefeather
ha ha, you and me both...
Cause if what YOU say is true...
Then the answer to my question is "yes" Cause look at it this way... If a warrior is wearing Knights or whatever and has 80 AL,
Weaken armour brings them down to 60
Then Penetrating attack ignorers 20,
And judges ignores 20 as well...
So technically, even if it's not "Stacked" to a point where it does like 300 damage, ha ha, its still a semi decent idea.
Cause if what YOU say is true...
Then the answer to my question is "yes" Cause look at it this way... If a warrior is wearing Knights or whatever and has 80 AL,
Weaken armour brings them down to 60
Then Penetrating attack ignorers 20,
And judges ignores 20 as well...
So technically, even if it's not "Stacked" to a point where it does like 300 damage, ha ha, its still a semi decent idea.
NatalieD
20% armor penetration does not mean -20 armor, unless the enemy has AL 100.
Weaken Armor only affects AL vs physical damage, and Judge's Insight makes you not deal physical damage.
Judge's Insight does not treat enemy AL as 60, unless their AL is in fact actually 60. The skill description is misleading, and should say "light" where it says "holy". (If you don't believe me, go test it on the armor dummies like I just did.
)
Weaken Armor only affects AL vs physical damage, and Judge's Insight makes you not deal physical damage.
Judge's Insight does not treat enemy AL as 60, unless their AL is in fact actually 60. The skill description is misleading, and should say "light" where it says "holy". (If you don't believe me, go test it on the armor dummies like I just did.
)
Misc Merik
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitefeather
ha ha, you and me both...
Cause if what -->YOU<-- say is true... This made me laugh. just love being put on the spot.
I dont know why any semi decent war would wear all knights armor when glads is clearly superior to it. In that case in a war on war fight weaken armor wouldnt do awhole lot it would simply negate the +20 vs physical bonus glads has. No, what I was trying to say is target has 80 armor your attack has "20% armor pen" It would deal a different amount of damage than it would if weaken armor worked and put them at 60 armor vs the same kind of attack with that armor pen bonus going. *chuckles* knights armor F34r me with teh leet knights armor I r got absorption all dyed black with 5 sup vigors and mending +3 healing breeze +7<---mostly stolen from gw chibi.
Cause if what -->YOU<-- say is true... This made me laugh. just love being put on the spot.
I dont know why any semi decent war would wear all knights armor when glads is clearly superior to it. In that case in a war on war fight weaken armor wouldnt do awhole lot it would simply negate the +20 vs physical bonus glads has. No, what I was trying to say is target has 80 armor your attack has "20% armor pen" It would deal a different amount of damage than it would if weaken armor worked and put them at 60 armor vs the same kind of attack with that armor pen bonus going. *chuckles* knights armor F34r me with teh leet knights armor I r got absorption all dyed black with 5 sup vigors and mending +3 healing breeze +7<---mostly stolen from gw chibi.
Misc Merik
Quote:
Originally Posted by NatalieD
20% armor penetration does not mean -20 armor, unless the enemy has AL 100.
Weaken Armor only affects AL vs physical damage, and Judge's Insight makes you not deal physical damage.
Judge's Insight does not treat enemy AL as 60, unless their AL is in fact actually 60. The skill description is misleading, and should say "light" where it says "holy". (If you don't believe me, go test it on the armor dummies like I just did. )
That reminded me of something else I was wondering if holy dmg ignores armor how do you get a 10% armor pen bonus with it kinda contradicts the general theme of armor ignoring holy dmg bit. just a thought.
Weaken Armor only affects AL vs physical damage, and Judge's Insight makes you not deal physical damage.
Judge's Insight does not treat enemy AL as 60, unless their AL is in fact actually 60. The skill description is misleading, and should say "light" where it says "holy". (If you don't believe me, go test it on the armor dummies like I just did.
)
That reminded me of something else I was wondering if holy dmg ignores armor how do you get a 10% armor pen bonus with it kinda contradicts the general theme of armor ignoring holy dmg bit. just a thought.
Whitefeather
So judges insight and Penetrating attack with a ranger wouldn't do any more damage than Judges inisght and a regular shot?
AHH, CONFUSION!
AHH, CONFUSION!
NatalieD
Quote:
Originally Posted by Misc Merik
That reminded me of something else I was wondering if holy dmg ignores armor how do you get a 10% armor pen bonus with it kinda contradicts the general theme of armor ignoring holy dmg bit. just a thought.
It is contradictory. The thing is, Judge's Insight lies when it says holy damage. It really means light damage, which doesn't ignore armor but is otherwise like holy damage. (I.e., undead take double damage, necros wearing tormentor's get hurt more.)
Savio
Quote:
Originally Posted by NatalieD
It is contradictory. The thing is, Judge's Insight lies when it says holy damage. It really means light damage, which doesn't ignore armor but is otherwise like holy damage. (I.e., undead take double damage, necros wearing tormentor's get hurt more.)
Wrong. Holy damage is the exact same as light damage. The thing is that Holy, Dark, and Chaos (well, there used to be Chaos) damage type skills have an unwritten "ignore armor" effect, like Illusionary Weaponry or Dark Pact. (For IW, the skill is doing the damage, not your weapon.) Weapons, regardless of their damage type, are always affected by armor.
NatalieD
...is there anything in the game that could prove either version over the other? 
NatalieD
That is to say, it sounds like we're agreeing on all the measurable facts and just have a different interpretation of which skills are misleadingly described.
Savio
Well... it's more like the effects aren't explained. Weapons always are affected by armor, regardless of their type. If you used Greater Conflagration, if you used Judge's Insight, if you used a wand that has Chaos/Light/Shadow damage, it will always take armor into account.
Elemental-type skills are also affected by armor. Elemental weapons, Elementalist spells, and a few miscellaneous elemental-type skills like Zealot's Fire, cold Necro skills, and Dust Trap, all are affected by armor.
Besides physical and elemental damage, there's this third category of skill damage type which really doesn't have a category name. It includes Chaos (well, there used to be Chaos), Holy/Light, Dark/Shadow, and typeless skills. Pretty much any skill that does damage but doesn't say it deals a type of elemental damage falls into this category and ignores armor. Heck, even Warrior and Ranger skills for the most part fall into this category too.
Judge's Insight only changes weapon type - it doesn't actually do damage by itself - so it falls into the first category. Were it something like Strength of Honor or Illusionary Weaponry where damage is added, then it'd be in the third category and ignore armor.
Elemental-type skills are also affected by armor. Elemental weapons, Elementalist spells, and a few miscellaneous elemental-type skills like Zealot's Fire, cold Necro skills, and Dust Trap, all are affected by armor.
Besides physical and elemental damage, there's this third category of skill damage type which really doesn't have a category name. It includes Chaos (well, there used to be Chaos), Holy/Light, Dark/Shadow, and typeless skills. Pretty much any skill that does damage but doesn't say it deals a type of elemental damage falls into this category and ignores armor. Heck, even Warrior and Ranger skills for the most part fall into this category too.
Judge's Insight only changes weapon type - it doesn't actually do damage by itself - so it falls into the first category. Were it something like Strength of Honor or Illusionary Weaponry where damage is added, then it'd be in the third category and ignore armor.
TeK 23
Now before factions update I had tested Insight and it does stack with others. The damage type is changing (I.E. Cold, Fire, etc...) So it does not get the cool ignore armor. But it's still an extra 20% armor pen.
So a warrior can get:
Sundering 10%
STR: 16%
Pen Blow: 20%
Insight: 20%
Total = 66%
Since it's no longer Physical dmg but holy dmg you only go agenst AL. So lets say u are fighting another war with 80AL (with no bonus/sheild/skills.) you've dropped his AL to 27.2. So that's how you get those great 250+ Dmg hits.
So a warrior can get:
Sundering 10%
STR: 16%
Pen Blow: 20%
Insight: 20%
Total = 66%
Since it's no longer Physical dmg but holy dmg you only go agenst AL. So lets say u are fighting another war with 80AL (with no bonus/sheild/skills.) you've dropped his AL to 27.2. So that's how you get those great 250+ Dmg hits.
Former Ruling
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeK 23
Now before factions update I had tested Insight and it does stack with others. The damage type is changing (I.E. Cold, Fire, etc...) So it does not get the cool ignore armor. But it's still an extra 20% armor pen.
So a warrior can get:
Sundering 10%
STR: 16%
Pen Blow: 20%
Insight: 20%
Total = 66%
Since it's no longer Physical dmg but holy dmg you only go agenst AL. So lets say u are fighting another war with 80AL (with no bonus/sheild/skills.) you've dropped his AL to 27.2. So that's how you get those great 250+ Dmg hits. Insight stacks with others just fine - Its Pen. Blow that doesn't stack.
Penatrating Blow/Shot don't stack with any other pen. giving buffs. It just auto-sets the bonus to 20%.
I'll retest, but I'm fairly sure everyone else is still right.
So a warrior can get:
Sundering 10%
STR: 16%
Pen Blow: 20%
Insight: 20%
Total = 66%
Since it's no longer Physical dmg but holy dmg you only go agenst AL. So lets say u are fighting another war with 80AL (with no bonus/sheild/skills.) you've dropped his AL to 27.2. So that's how you get those great 250+ Dmg hits. Insight stacks with others just fine - Its Pen. Blow that doesn't stack.
Penatrating Blow/Shot don't stack with any other pen. giving buffs. It just auto-sets the bonus to 20%.
I'll retest, but I'm fairly sure everyone else is still right.
JoDiamonds
Maybe it's merely that the highest bonus get's used, and damage penetration doesn't stack at all? Like Runes of the same type, for instance.
So if you have something giving 20% pen, and something giving 15%, it just ignores the 15% because there's a higher one.
So if you have something giving 20% pen, and something giving 15%, it just ignores the 15% because there's a higher one.
S E Crusader
This is a GREAT skill to use against the Undead. Try using this in the UW.