The most recent update has placed somewhere in the vicinity of 20 high level monsters and 1 super-strong boss in the middle of Seekers Passage to stop bots using wreckages, as these monsters are pretty much IMPOSSIBLE to kill. This is all fine with me. Except for one problem. There are two quests - Ancient Secrets, and even worse, a proffession-changing quest past these monsters. They have taken two very hard and very important quests and made them pretty much impossible.
Wouoldn't it have been better to simply have gotten rid of the wreckages?! If the simple and clever approach of getting rid of the wreckages is out of reach, then let the bots farm. This is ridiculous.
And don't say it helps farming by not getting rid of the wreckages. There's not a huge amount of money to be made there anyway, and the farming is not worth destroying two very important quests.
Now Guild Wars has gone too far
Aalric
WNxInterceptor
If you wait, those monsters all just run off and you can get by without even fighting them. Besides that they aren't very hard to kill with a half-decent group. Btw.. I found that those hydras have always run through there, maybe they stop there longer now, but thats it.
salja Wachi
i did those quests alst night man and yes they are hard, but they are doable. you are going to have to find a better group. you can add me to friends and we can do it togehter if you like
stdnox
i have 2 also say he is right....it is nearly impossible....
Aalric
I didn't say that they are impossible. I said that they are pretty much impossible. And finding a good party in Seeker's Passage is even harder. (I'm in the European servers, I have no idea what American or Korean is like). Anyway, the point is that it might be doable with a good party, but, at least for me, I'm not going to find a good party in Seeker's Passage - the most people I've ever seen there is maybe 8 - who have all left soon afterwards. I still think that getting rid of the wreckages would have been better.
dbgtboy
well, before the patch i spent a good 2 hours on that damn ranger quest, now on my monk, im not gonna bother with it.
Ba Ne
Does fixing the bot problem in this area by adding more monsters seem like the logical solution to anyone? It seems bass-ackwards to me. How about just (re)moving the wreckage that was being farmed to hell? That would be easier to implement anyway I would think (not being a game designer).
I applaud them for addressing the issue (and providing great updates overall), but I think they may be over-thinking some of these things a little. Sometimes the first idea that comes to you is the best.
I applaud them for addressing the issue (and providing great updates overall), but I think they may be over-thinking some of these things a little. Sometimes the first idea that comes to you is the best.
Loviatar
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Originally Posted by Ba Ne
I applaud them for addressing the issue (and providing great updates overall), but I think they may be over-thinking some of these things a little. Sometimes the first idea that comes to you is the best.
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Silmor
Pretty much impossible to kill? The only problem is their meteor, inferno and fireball damage, their regular attacks aren't impressive at all, and they're melee fighters to boot - just begging to be rounded up for some area nuking of your own. They're nothing more than scary-looking elementalists, squint and imagine there's feeble old men with a robe and wizard hat casting things at you. If you can't even take on a couple of level 22 elementalists with a varied party of six, you may just need to improve your personal playing skill before moving further in the game.
Da Cebuano
The problem w/ your issue silmor is that you're thinking class specific, other builds not meant to do that will have a hard time. Anyway, I saw the guildwars developer post at guild-hall and he says they wanted to keep that chest as a reward but have the monsters there so that you'll have to work for it, problem is that they only think of exploiters yet the people who dont exploit get rammed up the ass.
Mormegil
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Originally Posted by Silmor
Pretty much impossible to kill? The only problem is their meteor, inferno and fireball damage, their regular attacks aren't impressive at all, and they're melee fighters to boot - just begging to be rounded up for some area nuking of your own. They're nothing more than scary-looking elementalists, squint and imagine there's feeble old men with a robe and wizard hat casting things at you. If you can't even take on a couple of level 22 elementalists with a varied party of six, you may just need to improve your personal playing skill before moving further in the game.
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Bu7ch
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Originally Posted by Silmor
Pretty much impossible to kill? The only problem is their meteor, inferno and fireball damage, their regular attacks aren't impressive at all, and they're melee fighters to boot - just begging to be rounded up for some area nuking of your own. They're nothing more than scary-looking elementalists, squint and imagine there's feeble old men with a robe and wizard hat casting things at you. If you can't even take on a couple of level 22 elementalists with a varied party of six, you may just need to improve your personal playing skill before moving further in the game.
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With all due respect to other classes and parties - I ran the Elementalist's path quest through here with my Monk last night and henchies. Since it is the Ele path, it's awful hard to do some area nuking of your own and you add that with about 50 Storm Kin which mob from all over and seemingly respawn all the time, it can be quite a journey. It took me over an hour to complete this last night because I literally had to take on every single mob one by one. Then before the boss for the quest I had to fight every Storm Kin to prevent mass mobs from attacking me.
The fix for the loot farming is to simply remove the loot, not make the area difficult.
kungfumonkey2
I thought that avid PvE'ers have been asking for a more difficult game post-ascension?
Nothing wrong with more monsters. More monsters mean more loot and more exp. I think the reason that they added monsters instead of taking away wreckage, is that it adds to the game instead of taking away. Hmmm redundant thought.
Why punish people that are doing the quest, by taking away their little loot reward? Yes, they made it a little harder for questers, but they made it a lot harder for bots. Which I myself do not really want bots running around, especially since I can not gank their drops like the ole' Pindle bots of D2. I personally am undaunted by the addition of monsters.
Nothing wrong with more monsters. More monsters mean more loot and more exp. I think the reason that they added monsters instead of taking away wreckage, is that it adds to the game instead of taking away. Hmmm redundant thought.
Why punish people that are doing the quest, by taking away their little loot reward? Yes, they made it a little harder for questers, but they made it a lot harder for bots. Which I myself do not really want bots running around, especially since I can not gank their drops like the ole' Pindle bots of D2. I personally am undaunted by the addition of monsters.
Moskel
These path changing quests should be difficult, they are high level optional content. If they are too hard right now progress a bit further through the game and come back with better equipment and better skills.
Arcane Echo + Power Block on a Mesmer = 2 Hydra that do nothing until dead. That mesmer can easily interrupt and shut down a 3rd hydra. Once you reach the desert you can't just get a group of 6 W/Mo together anymore and just 'tankblast' through everything. You actually have to start using other skills to counter the enemies.
Arcane Echo + Power Block on a Mesmer = 2 Hydra that do nothing until dead. That mesmer can easily interrupt and shut down a 3rd hydra. Once you reach the desert you can't just get a group of 6 W/Mo together anymore and just 'tankblast' through everything. You actually have to start using other skills to counter the enemies.
TiC
To be honest, the desert becomes more tedious than anything else when you go through it with your 4th PvE character (which I am currently doing). I typically do things with henchmen now, since I can't be bothered with the horrendous partying anymore.
With the exception of certain missions, henchmen were still viable for the majority of the desert quests. I have yet to reach seeker's passage since the change, but if I can't get through it with henchmen anymore, I'm going to be more than annoyed...
With the exception of certain missions, henchmen were still viable for the majority of the desert quests. I have yet to reach seeker's passage since the change, but if I can't get through it with henchmen anymore, I'm going to be more than annoyed...
Silmor
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Originally Posted by Mormegil
Pretty much impossible? Pm me and add my char to friends if you need help. Actually hydras just deal raw ele dmg, they can't even be considered "difficult" for a smart group.
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To the people claiming that their characters aren't suited to defeating hydras: if you refuse to adapt your character's build to the situation you face outside, I can understand this kind of challenge to be difficult to overcome. But the problem isn't with the challenge then, the problem is with you.
Mormegil
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Originally Posted by Silmor
I know, that was my entire point. You seemed to have only read my first line 'pretty much impossible', which was the proposition from someone else.
To the people claiming that their characters aren't suited to defeating hydras: if you refuse to adapt your character's build to the situation you face outside, I can understand this kind of challenge to be difficult to overcome. But the problem isn't with the challenge then, the problem is with you. |
I quoted you for that reason.
Kaylee Ann
I have soloed 4 and sometimes even 6 hydras at the same time on my e/mo. If you can't do it with 6 people you really need to rethink what you are doing....
Sovetskeey
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Originally Posted by kungfumonkey2
I thought that avid PvE'ers have been asking for a more difficult game post-ascension?
Nothing wrong with more monsters. More monsters mean more loot and more exp. I think the reason that they added monsters instead of taking away wreckage, is that it adds to the game instead of taking away. Hmmm redundant thought. Why punish people that are doing the quest, by taking away their little loot reward? Yes, they made it a little harder for questers, but they made it a lot harder for bots. Which I myself do not really want bots running around, especially since I can not gank their drops like the ole' Pindle bots of D2. I personally am undaunted by the addition of monsters. |
Also, you mentioned the complaints about post-ascension being too easy... I believe A.Net wanted to make it so that the difficulty kind of ramped up, not just shot through the roof as soon as you ascended. The south Shiverpeaks were tough but managable with just about any PUG (Thunderhead Keep not included, however) and the Ring of Fire islands were incredibly difficult without a top-notch group.
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Originally Posted by Kaylee Ann
I have soloed 4 and sometimes even 6 hydras at the same time on my e/mo. If you can't do it with 6 people you really need to rethink what you are doing....
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I agree with most of the people in this thread... Those four, count 'em, four wreckages within a two minute walk of each other are the most concentrated in the game. I can now proudly say I've beat the game (12 tries and several hours later I finally beat Hell's Precipice) and I've never seen that many wreckages that close to each other anywhere. Sure people might argue that it's a great reward for a party for fighting through a retarded number of monsters but a full party doesn't gain SHIT from them. ~250 gold from the area around the rare material crafter split 6 ways is about 40 gold each and 4 or 5 of the party members end up with a cheap little weapon that will sell for an additional 35-50 gold. They won't be missed.
Aalric
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Originally Posted by Kaylee Ann
I have soloed 4 and sometimes even 6 hydras at the same time on my e/mo. If you can't do it with 6 people you really need to rethink what you are doing....
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Secondly, four wreckages are NOT worth it.
Finally, those people who believe that the path's quests are difficult - this quest already is. It does not need to be made any more difficult. The desert is hard enough as it is. Silmor, call me a noob player if you will. I cannot solo 22 hydras. And, as far as I know, neither can most people.
dustbunny
To reply to the original poster, I don't believe it would have been simpler to remove the wreckages. The simplest would be to solve this problem by banning the account of those that ran bots. Instead of affecting everyone else playing the game and reducing their rewards, why not just punish the offenders? They have the ability to program the game to recognize and classify actions of those people "farming" to reduce drops accordingly. If they can do that, they sure the heck can program the game to recognize bots. If nothing else, no one can play the game 24 hours or 20 hours a day for days on end. Anyone logged on that long interacting with the game every single minute is running a bot. They know what they were doing. There's no need for leniecy. Ban their account and move on.
Dreamsmith
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Originally Posted by Aalric
There are two quests - Ancient Secrets, and even worse, a proffession-changing quest past these monsters. They have taken two very hard and very important quests and made them pretty much impossible.
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Unless you want to do these quests the hard way, these quests are no more difficult than they were before.
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Originally Posted by Aalric
I cannot solo 22 hydras. And, as far as I know, neither can most people.
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Algren Cole
pffft....mobs over level 8 shouldn't be included in this game...it makes the game too difficult. How am I supposed to kill a mob of level 9's when they cap my level at 20....
Aalric
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Originally Posted by dustbunny
To reply to the original poster, I don't believe it would have been simpler to remove the wreckages. The simplest would be to solve this problem by banning the account of those that ran bots. Instead of affecting everyone else playing the game and reducing their rewards, why not just punish the offenders? They have the ability to program the game to recognize and classify actions of those people "farming" to reduce drops accordingly. If they can do that, they sure the heck can program the game to recognize bots. If nothing else, no one can play the game 24 hours or 20 hours a day for days on end. Anyone logged on that long interacting with the game every single minute is running a bot. They know what they were doing. There's no need for leniecy. Ban their account and move on.
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smitty-gw
No matter what changes A-net makes, some people will still be unhappy about them. That is a fact of life.
I agree that adding monsters is better than subtracting loot. This was an attempt to achieve a greater good for the community by eliminating a clearly bot exploited location, not a punishment for the one time quest you need to achieve a secondary profession change.
The constant bot exploiter problem outweighs your temporary one-time quest achievement need problem. That is also a fact of life.
It's like the guy who jumps on the grenade to save his fellow comrades. Sacrifice a few to save the many. It's a noble concept. Everyone loves that selfless act except the guy who just bought it. Not everyone can be happy, once again, a fact of life.
I agree that adding monsters is better than subtracting loot. This was an attempt to achieve a greater good for the community by eliminating a clearly bot exploited location, not a punishment for the one time quest you need to achieve a secondary profession change.
The constant bot exploiter problem outweighs your temporary one-time quest achievement need problem. That is also a fact of life.
It's like the guy who jumps on the grenade to save his fellow comrades. Sacrifice a few to save the many. It's a noble concept. Everyone loves that selfless act except the guy who just bought it. Not everyone can be happy, once again, a fact of life.
kungfumonkey2
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Originally Posted by Sovetskeey
You're posting for the shear point of arguing. Those wreckages aren't amazingly valuable to a team of 6. One person in a full group actually playing through the area isn't going to miss his cut of about 80 gold from those wreckages.
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I believe I said "little loot" in referance to the wreckage. I did not figure that parties were getting Superior Vigors.
My point was why take away from the game? Even if it is a little bit. I feel those change your profession quests should be difficult. I am in fact amazed that they allow you to do that. It allows you to go back and unlock skills for PvP instead of having to go and build a new character. Which I think was nice of Anet.
If you have ever trekked about the desert there are huge expanses where there is not a critter in sight, save but the lonely tumble weed. Adding few baddies to an area to prevent some bot farming is no skin off my nose.
Creston
So how does anyone in their right mind think that this will STOP botting? It won't. The botters will just find another chest and bot that. It will take them longer to get their loot, but they'll still get it.
Personally I don't really care about these chests, since I've NEVER found anything worthwhile in a chest, but Anet keeps adding monsters, adding mesmers, adding disenchanters to try to "stop botting", and it's not having any effect.
Address the CAUSE for botting, not the symptoms..
Creston
Personally I don't really care about these chests, since I've NEVER found anything worthwhile in a chest, but Anet keeps adding monsters, adding mesmers, adding disenchanters to try to "stop botting", and it's not having any effect.
Address the CAUSE for botting, not the symptoms..
Creston
dargon
The cause will always be there. Some people are lazy and would rather spend $20 dollars on ebay than do a bit of work in game to get a level 20 character. This applies to everything. The only way to completely eliminate the bots would be to shut down the game. For every fix someone comes up with, the bot programmer will come up with a counter. I personally like the addition of the mobs. It makes the desert a little more dangerous, and gives you a little bit more chance of getting something nice when you kill them. (more mobs to kill = more chances at a nice drop).
kungfumonkey2
You are correct Creston, botters are like a dog who has tasted blood. He has to be put down.
A.net will probably never stop the bots. Why? Because even if a person can make a bot to farm only 1 bogskale, they will do it. Because it is easy, and it means they get something for no time or effort spent. They can turn on their bogskale bot 2.0, go to work, school, barn raising whatever. When they come home they will have that 200g more than they did 5 hours ago, and it all happened while they were away. Any money you make without working is good money.
A.net will probably never stop the bots. Why? Because even if a person can make a bot to farm only 1 bogskale, they will do it. Because it is easy, and it means they get something for no time or effort spent. They can turn on their bogskale bot 2.0, go to work, school, barn raising whatever. When they come home they will have that 200g more than they did 5 hours ago, and it all happened while they were away. Any money you make without working is good money.
Malchiel
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Originally Posted by Aalric
No one seems to have actually bothered to read the thread through. THERE ISN'T SIX PEOPLE IN SEEKER'S PASSAGE. You cannot GET a good party.
Secondly, four wreckages are NOT worth it. Finally, those people who believe that the path's quests are difficult - this quest already is. It does not need to be made any more difficult. The desert is hard enough as it is. Silmor, call me a noob player if you will. I cannot solo 22 hydras. And, as far as I know, neither can most people. |
Also you are not thinking straight. An e/mo is definitely one of the best tanker in the game. Earth line can easily boost your armor beyond 180, which means that the hydra should be doing -3 or so dmg to your now invincible ass. Sure you do crap for dmg. But what does it matter if you can wand them all to death.
Sorry to tell you, that e/mo isn't the only profession available in GW. What about a monk? what about the necro? Are you saying they should be able to tank 4 hydras alone?
Let me tell you what, soloing 4 lvl 22 hydras is far from impressive, I have tanked +10 mango hydras and live through it. Now instead of bragging why don't you think of a clever solution that doesn't concern only you.
GW Monkey
OK being that I really hate the farmer bots, I wanted to see just how bad the OPs problem was. The only char that had Ranger's Path queued up and ready was my Mo/Me... I took Mario, Stefan, Orion, Claude, and Alesia... I wired up the bar for Me mostly.
I was expecting a HUGE change from this thread... but it's not. There are TWO, count them, TWO PAIRS OF HYDRA. Big whoop. This is an exact response for the problem. Roaming characters with knockdown attacks. Perfect. I can't think of a better way to do it. If it seems like "hell, we'll just add more monsters" then you are mistaken. They have no need to explain themselves; the thoughtfulness is apparent. Everything else was already there. If you never encountered the boss hydra and his two bodyguards, that was pure luck - they've been there as long as I can remember... from launch date.
It took me precicely 23m 04s from exiting the Seeker's Passage portal, killing everything on the way including our 4 new fireball-tossing friends, killing every single storm kin in the area (24), and finally Yxthoshth himself. lvl17 bots, no deaths. No hurry either; just killed them as they came.
Now, I exited the portal again, and immediately started running for the first wreckage... I got past the first set of devourers, the 3 patrolling kins latched to me, and the first pair of hydra - directly in the pathway of the farmerbots - made short work of the whole group. Their initial patrolling direction and starting placement was intended to trap running fools in a 8-way beat down. I doubt a good party of six humans could get through it unscathed.
ANet: Outstanding. Thanks!
Aalric: I'm sorry it's hard for you. You'll figure it out. We're here to assist. (and if this upsets you, wait till you see what's coming via the southern shiverpeaks and fire islands - the devs are as sadistic as the players.)
I was expecting a HUGE change from this thread... but it's not. There are TWO, count them, TWO PAIRS OF HYDRA. Big whoop. This is an exact response for the problem. Roaming characters with knockdown attacks. Perfect. I can't think of a better way to do it. If it seems like "hell, we'll just add more monsters" then you are mistaken. They have no need to explain themselves; the thoughtfulness is apparent. Everything else was already there. If you never encountered the boss hydra and his two bodyguards, that was pure luck - they've been there as long as I can remember... from launch date.
It took me precicely 23m 04s from exiting the Seeker's Passage portal, killing everything on the way including our 4 new fireball-tossing friends, killing every single storm kin in the area (24), and finally Yxthoshth himself. lvl17 bots, no deaths. No hurry either; just killed them as they came.
Now, I exited the portal again, and immediately started running for the first wreckage... I got past the first set of devourers, the 3 patrolling kins latched to me, and the first pair of hydra - directly in the pathway of the farmerbots - made short work of the whole group. Their initial patrolling direction and starting placement was intended to trap running fools in a 8-way beat down. I doubt a good party of six humans could get through it unscathed.
ANet: Outstanding. Thanks!
Aalric: I'm sorry it's hard for you. You'll figure it out. We're here to assist. (and if this upsets you, wait till you see what's coming via the southern shiverpeaks and fire islands - the devs are as sadistic as the players.)
hydrak
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Originally Posted by Aalric
The most recent update has placed somewhere in the vicinity of 20 high level monsters and 1 super-strong boss in the middle of Seekers Passage to stop bots using wreckages, as these monsters are pretty much IMPOSSIBLE to kill. This is all fine with me. Except for one problem. There are two quests - Ancient Secrets, and even worse, a proffession-changing quest past these monsters. They have taken two very hard and very important quests and made them pretty much impossible.
Wouoldn't it have been better to simply have gotten rid of the wreckages?! If the simple and clever approach of getting rid of the wreckages is out of reach, then let the bots farm. This is ridiculous. And don't say it helps farming by not getting rid of the wreckages. There's not a huge amount of money to be made there anyway, and the farming is not worth destroying two very important quests. |
Shirasen
I really don't understand why everyone is so pissed off about this little patch. I personally think it's a good thing that the bots are being stopped. Sure the area will be a tiny bit harder, but really...3 hydras...what's wrong with that? You can either change your party layout so you can take on 3 of them or change your own character build to help take them on. I personally can solo up to 4 lvl 24 mahgo hydras (outside perdition rock), with my w/e <-- and he's not even a w/mo!!! Really, it's all about your playing style, the other monsters in the area include storm kin and some scarabs/devourers right? If you KNOW what you're going to be facing then you should be able to overcome the difficulty.
Aalric
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Originally Posted by Malchiel
And I have soloed 20 pffttt. It's all easy and fine without the storm kin. But try tanking when you're being hit with cry of frustration that can miraculously hit even your 1/4 sec casting spell. Then suddenly it's all different.
Also you are not thinking straight. An e/mo is definitely one of the best tanker in the game. Earth line can easily boost your armor beyond 180, which means that the hydra should be doing -3 or so dmg to your now invincible ass. Sure you do crap for dmg. But what does it matter if you can wand them all to death. Sorry to tell you, that e/mo isn't the only profession available in GW. What about a monk? what about the necro? Are you saying they should be able to tank 4 hydras alone? Let me tell you what, soloing 4 lvl 22 hydras is far from impressive, I have tanked +10 mango hydras and live through it. Now instead of bragging why don't you think of a clever solution that doesn't concern only you. |
Hydrak, I will answer you without quoting as I don't know how to quote twice. I am not going there to farm - I don't farm. I am going there to do quests. And also, as I have already said, I cannot find a group in Seeker's Passage on the European server.
I would also like to make an official apology. It may have sounded like I was shouting at people before (Silmor in particular). I was in a way and I apologise. I was in a bad mood earlier on today but have calmed down since.
Sir Skullcrasher
Remember kids, the harder the bosses, the harder they fall 
even if the enemies or bosses is hard, just keep trying until you kill them and it might drop some rare stuff for you, so don't feel bad or angry just because you died!
even if the enemies or bosses is hard, just keep trying until you kill them and it might drop some rare stuff for you, so don't feel bad or angry just because you died!
Aalric
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Originally Posted by sir skulkcrasher
Remember kids, the harder the bosses, the harder they fall
even if the enemies or bosses is hard, just keep trying until you kill them and it might drop some rare stuff for you, so don't feel bad or angry just because you died! |
I only have an hour a day to paly. I don't have time ti mess around killing mobs of stupid monsters.
stumpy
alternatively if they are sold out of the barbie games ... you can try using a little patience and stealth, you dont have to fight all mobs ... you do realize this right? Only a few you HAVE to fight, includes bosses and certain choke points.
Dreamsmith
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Originally Posted by Aalric
Yes, but this makes it super hard!
I only have an hour a day to paly. I don't have time ti mess around killing mobs of stupid monsters. |
You remind me of people who complain about not being able to get to Ascalon Settlement because they can't fight all the Tengu on that plain. Then why the heck are you going that way? Take an alternate route! Sheesh. Don't take the hardest route possible, then complain that it's too hard...
Captain Arne Is PRO
which profession quest is blocked? >.>
Sanji
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Originally Posted by Dreamsmith
Then why are you trying to do those quests the hard way? The Ancient Secrets guy is clear on the opposite side of the map from Seeker's Passage. He's actually closer to AND MUCH EASIER TO GET TO starting from Elona Reach!
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Originally Posted by Dreamsmith
You remind me of people who complain about not being able to get to Ascalon Settlement because they can't fight all the Tengu on that plain. Then why the heck are you going that way? Take an alternate route! Sheesh. Don't take the hardest route possible, then complain that it's too hard...
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It's a lot easier to explain to someone that there is a better path to take than shouting at them for complaining when they didn't know any better.