Player-Driven NPC Stores - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

roofle

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

I Sometimes Make Kites

N/Mo

30 Jun 2005 at 13:27 - 1

I like the NPC traders in the main towns (unlike many people who stand beside them while shouting "Selling yellow dye and rune of minor healing!!!!" repeatedly). So let's take this a step further and have stores whose inventory is totally governed by players. I envision it as a kind of bazaar, filled with NPCs with names like "Melee Weapons" and "Focus Items". Their inventories would be composed entirely of what players have told them to sell, as well as dictating the price. Here is my example:

1. I take a gold hammer to the "Master Trader" NPC. I type in that I want it to sell for 1720 gold.
2. Now the "Melee Weapons" NPC has my gold hammer in his inventory.
3. Another player, shopping at the bazaar, sees my item, decides it's a good price, and purchases it. Now I'm 1720 gold richer (alternatively, the "Master Trader" gets a 5% cut or something).
4. If no one buys my hammer for 5 days, then the hammer is returned to me. Perhaps I should lower the price a little...

This system has a number of advantages. First of all, if you want to sell something, you dont have to stand in the crowd at Lion's Arch and yell it over and over again. For the buyer, you know exactly where to go to buy the item you need. Now you dont need to stand in Lion's Arch and listen to the loud people trying to sell their iron ingots and yellow dyes.

I really think this is a good idea. In fact I think it's so good I can't believe the programmers haven't already thought of it

. Perhaps this thread will inspire them.

Zexion

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2005

Warrior Nation [WN]

N/Me

30 Jun 2005 at 13:47 - 2

Kinda like the auction house, just made to fit GW

I like it!

Maybe more sortings, like "Sort by Tied Attribute" or "Sort by Rarity" (white, blue, purple, gold).

_Zexion

Born

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2005

Dread Knights

Mo/Me

30 Jun 2005 at 14:07 - 3

Your describing the Eve merchant system, npcs will even buy your items if the price is right...plus everything is in one window with a search engine and all grouped.

roofle

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

I Sometimes Make Kites

N/Mo

30 Jun 2005 at 14:35 - 4

Never played Eve, but I'm not surprised that my idea isn't really my idea. Great minds think alike, you know!

Ristaron

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2005

Canada, eh?

Legion Of Valhalla

E/

30 Jun 2005 at 14:50 - 5

I really hate the people who just spam the system trying to sell something for more than they can even buy it for at the trader.
"WTS Rune of Major Vigor! Offer! Buy-out 40k!"
"Dude, I can get one from the trader you're standing beside for 11k."
"WTS Rune of Major Vigor! Offer! Buy-out 12k!"
-_-

Oh, and you have to love the people who try to sell MINOR runes at a 3 for 1k deal too

viet

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

cali, usa

The Samurai Demons

Mo/W

30 Jun 2005 at 15:23 - 6

great idea. but gues it takes a few hours to code & a few mo to test...
would cut down on spammin
maybe pay 5% up front.

i love lookin at inventory, its neat clean & eficient, in the stores

john little

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

UK, EU Server

And All That Could Have Been [AATC]

E/Mo

30 Jun 2005 at 15:33 - 7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Born

Your describing the Eve merchant system, npcs will even buy your items if the price is right...plus everything is in one window with a search engine and all grouped.

the only problem with the eve system is that scamming is rife, with lots of cheap items being put up at stupid prices with idiots buying the stuff then complaining *remembers in eve when a TTI member bought 1 trit for 1 billion isk*. The amount of spam would likely create a lot of lag as well.

maybe limit the number of items you can have on sale to 2 or 3, and make sure that quest items, customised weapons and armour are not allowed.

IndyCC

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

Standing United (UNIT)

30 Jun 2005 at 15:38 - 8

Question:

Wouldn't this system create a gigantic inventory for the master NPC. I just imagine going to the master NPC to buy something and haveing to scroll through tons and tons of items. Even is a search bar is on top of it, it seems that this would be like spending hours on ebay looking for that lot of DVDs that has every movie I ever wanted. Except here you are spending hours looking for that +15% +30 health 5:1 vampiric and seeing all the 10%s and +20 healths and 3:1 vampirics

robmdq

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

30 Jun 2005 at 16:10 - 9

That idea is quite the same system used in "Face of Mankind", there are stores where u put your items for sale and just go continue your playing, when an item is sold the money is automatically transfered into your bank account. In this system, for example, u look for a helmet, then go to the helmets section and see the offers, they are sorted by helmet type, and the interface tells u the lowest and highest price asked for them, for example "price: 15-25,000 credits", then when u enter in that section of the store and u can see the individual offers, who is selling them, and buy the one u like.

Of course, if a system like this is ever implemented in GW, it should be also available in the international districts.

I just pray to never see the "personal shops" in GW, since in all the games i've saw them, they only causes ppl leaving their characters online 24/7, causing a serious overload to the servers, with the subsequent heavy lag issues.

roofle

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

I Sometimes Make Kites

N/Mo

30 Jun 2005 at 17:51 - 10

Quote:

Question:

Wouldn't this system create a gigantic inventory for the master NPC. I just imagine going to the master NPC to buy something and haveing to scroll through tons and tons of items. Even is a search bar is on top of it, it seems that this would be like spending hours on ebay looking for that lot of DVDs that has every movie I ever wanted. Except here you are spending hours looking for that +15% +30 health 5:1 vampiric and seeing all the 10%s and +20 healths and 3:1 vampirics

Yeah, that is right. That's why there'd need to be many NPCs, all handling specific items. Testing would determine how specific each NPCs stock would be, for example "Melee Weapon" merchant, to "Axe" merchant, to "Gold Axe" merchant.

Quote:

I just pray to never see the "personal shops" in GW, since in all the games i've saw them, they only causes ppl leaving their characters online 24/7, causing a serious overload to the servers, with the subsequent heavy lag issues.

I'm no coder, but it must be relatively simple to simply give the money earned by a player through the NPC shops when they next sign online. At least compared to the difficulties of writing their awesome net code and whatever

. That way sellers would be able to sign off whenever they want.

Weezer_Blue

Elite Guru

Join Date: Feb 2005

Just a Box in a Cage

Hurry Up The Cakes [Oven]

30 Jun 2005 at 18:12 - 11

I like this system. It would reduce some of that

"0mFgz0rZ §311iNg ü3el2 g0d1y 1337 g34l2!!11shift+1oneone"

Joseph Fallen

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2005

E/N

30 Jun 2005 at 19:57 - 12

The only problem I see with the idea is that people would abuse it and use it as additional storage. Let's say that I have too many items and I want to make room to go farm, so I place twenty items in the NPC Traders and price them at 10 million gold each. Nobody will buy them and so in effect this will act like additional storage.

I say that if they implement anything like this, then the item shouldn't be stored in an NPC's inventory. The items should remain in your storage chest and be automatically removed when they are sold.

Also, I think it would be important to limit the number of items that you can place on consignment. Somewhere between 1 and 5 max.

=HT=Ingram

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2005

Anchorage Alaska

Haz Team [HT]

R/W

30 Jun 2005 at 23:42 - 13

you know normally I don't like these auction Ideas, but this one was well thought out. cheers on that. lets hope to see something like this coded and tested in alpha soon.

It will be caped just like everything else so millions would not be possible. it would prob be maxed at 100K, since thats all one can carry at POS... and you would not be able to put more then say 5 items (same as Belt code wise) for sale at the trader. that would prevent abuse.

johnnylange

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

USA/Near Chicago

The Divine Darkness <TDDG>

W/Me

01 Jul 2005 at 02:33 - 14

Quote:

Originally Posted by roofle

I like the NPC traders in the main towns (unlike many people who stand beside them while shouting "Selling yellow dye and rune of minor healing!!!!" repeatedly). So let's take this a step further and have stores whose inventory is totally governed by players. I envision it as a kind of bazaar, filled with NPCs with names like "Melee Weapons" and "Focus Items". Their inventories would be composed entirely of what players have told them to sell, as well as dictating the price. Here is my example:

1. I take a gold hammer to the "Master Trader" NPC. I type in that I want it to sell for 1720 gold.
2. Now the "Melee Weapons" NPC has my gold hammer in his inventory.
3. Another player, shopping at the bazaar, sees my item, decides it's a good price, and purchases it. Now I'm 1720 gold richer (alternatively, the "Master Trader" gets a 5% cut or something).
4. If no one buys my hammer for 5 days, then the hammer is returned to me. Perhaps I should lower the price a little...

This system has a number of advantages. First of all, if you want to sell something, you dont have to stand in the crowd at Lion's Arch and yell it over and over again. For the buyer, you know exactly where to go to buy the item you need. Now you dont need to stand in Lion's Arch and listen to the loud people trying to sell their iron ingots and yellow dyes.

I really think this is a good idea. In fact I think it's so good I can't believe the programmers haven't already thought of it

. Perhaps this thread will inspire them.

So it's sort of like the auction house, but a little more user friendly.

Yeah, I could see people trying to use it as a temp storage area if it's not set up right. Yeah, I agree with Joseph Fallen limit the number of items you can have at a given time thoughout the whole system so you can't go into one town and drop off some items, then into another, etc.

My one question is, what if it's a very common item, should there be an automatic average price set on them like the rune trader has?

roofle

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

I Sometimes Make Kites

N/Mo

01 Jul 2005 at 22:37 - 15

There have been half a dozen "I want a trade fair/bazaar/whatever" topics since i made this one, so I feel the need to bump mine up, perhaps to persuade people to use just one topic.

Quote:

My one question is, what if it's a very common item, should there be an automatic average price set on them like the rune trader has?

That's a really good question. It's a shame I have no ready answer for that one. My instinct tells me that an automatic price would hinder people trying to compete for lower prices. Capitalism at its best.

However my down-and-dirty knowledge of the ... let's say "caliber" of certain Guild Wars players leads me to believe that if there was NOT an automatic price and stackable inventory for the traders, then these people would purposely spam the traders in an attempt to destroy it.

I'll leave it up to other members of the forums to think of some cool ways to try to cut off the legs at the hip of the trolls and what-not who plague all the internets. (that means you guys should try to think up ideas to solve these problems raised already in the topic. i tend to descend into strange phrasing like that.)

Of course, the best option would be to have a mod sticky this and pray a Guild Wars programmer who browses this forum (if they even exist) begins implementation of this idea, and have them figure out how to solve all these problems

edit: i can't type

Lampshade

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

USA

Xen of Onslaught

02 Jul 2005 at 00:41 - 16

Sounds great but... (I hope this get stickied)

People would go up and see your gold Hammer for 1720 and stand by the merchant and say:

" GOLD HAMMER ONLY 1500 2K LESS THAN THE TRADER PM ME"

over
and over

and over

and over

and over

and over

again.

Flame

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2005

02 Jul 2005 at 00:57 - 17

Anything that stops the spam deserves a chance. Every time I go to town, I disable the Trade channel. And the majority of the messages are selling some useless item at exorbitant prices or buying something so rare that you would only find it soloing the Underworld for two weeks. ArenaNet should just give the option to report players, in-game, that do not use the trade channel after being asked. Because every time I'm in town, I politely say "Please use the trade channel, <name>" and am often replied to with "SHUT UP UR NOT MY BOSS" and "I DU WAT I WANT". It makes me sick.

And, to all those stubborn people reading this, people disabling the trade channel is not an excuse for this. They disable the trade channel because they aren't buying anything or selling anything.

=HT=Ingram

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2005

Anchorage Alaska

Haz Team [HT]

R/W

02 Jul 2005 at 01:52 - 18

I started using the trade channel for chat... and turning off public. you would be surprised how often the trade channel is not being used for trades, so it suddenly becomes a place for regular chat because the traders took over the others. Oh well.. yet another thing someone will complain about I'm sure... But I really hate sellers in public. More then anything else in the game I wish the trade button would be removed COMPLETLY. But that's just me. I'm about PLAYING the game not acting like a retail a$$ wipe. That gets in your face constantly and makes a nuisance of them selves.

roofle

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

I Sometimes Make Kites

N/Mo

02 Jul 2005 at 02:23 - 19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lampshade

Sounds great but... (I hope this get stickied)

People would go up and see your gold Hammer for 1720 and stand by the merchant and say:

" GOLD HAMMER ONLY 1500 2K LESS THAN THE TRADER PM ME"

Well, he'd have to have the exact same hammer to make that kind of claim. If he did, why not just sell it to the Master Trader for 1500. Then make the "Hammer Trader" NPC sort hammers by price, and let the buyer decide which to buy.

Also, that's a difference in two HUNDRED gold, not two THOUSAND. Though I'm sure you did that deliberately to show how stupid some people can be :P

Born

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2005

Dread Knights

Mo/Me

02 Jul 2005 at 08:23 - 20

Quote:

Originally Posted by john little

the only problem with the eve system is that scamming is rife, with lots of cheap items being put up at stupid prices with idiots buying the stuff then complaining *remembers in eve when a TTI member bought 1 trit for 1 billion isk*. The amount of spam would likely create a lot of lag as well.

maybe limit the number of items you can have on sale to 2 or 3, and make sure that quest items, customised weapons and armour are not allowed.

Theres no scamming if your smart enuff to search by price, its really easy.
No one forces you to buy anything, its all presented in front of you with a choice to buy or not to buy.

Ive played many games and Eve's merchant system has to be the best Ive seen so far.

Galatea Orea

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2005

Knights of Temerity

R/Mo

02 Jul 2005 at 08:34 - 21

I agree completely that trade in the chat channel is way out of control. Here's what we have:

1. Really hard method of forming a group. The main way to do this is the Local chat.

2. Traders spamming the Local chat IN ALL CAPS AND LOTS OF OTHER CRAPPY CHARACTERS, which I'm afraid they learned playing Diablo, in utterly annoying ways.

3. No method of selling good but not great gear at reasonable rather than exorbitant prices.

Result: Forming a group in one of the most tiresome pain-in-the-butt parts of the game. And there's no nice, good way to tell folks to move their trade spam over to the trade channel. And a whole of lot of reasonably good stuff being sold to the NPC because who wants to deal with the inadequacies of trade

Coca Cola Lover

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2005

Save the Dolyaks (NUKE)

R/W

02 Jul 2005 at 08:36 - 22

Good idea, albeit one often brought up. =P

I think if there would be a Master Trader, then there'd be categories that your item is placed in. Say...

Focus Items
+Weapons
Hammers
Staves
Wands
Bows
Axes
+Swords
Clean
Blue
+Purple
PURPLE Max Damage Earth Staff of Shelter
Gold

Something along that. That way you won't have to sift through endless items and such. Ah, it seems so awesome in my head... XD

Born

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2005

Dread Knights

Mo/Me

02 Jul 2005 at 08:52 - 23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coca Cola Lover

Good idea, albeit one often brought up. =P

I think if there would be a Master Trader, then there'd be categories that your item is placed in. Say...

Focus Items
+Weapons
Hammers
Staves
Wands
Bows
Axes
+Swords
Clean
Blue
+Purple
PURPLE Max Damage Earth Staff of Shelter
Gold

Something along that. That way you won't have to sift through endless items and such. Ah, it seems so awesome in my head... XD

Yea you also described Eves setup. Along with all that it also breaks down even more, like this:

Focus Items
+Weapons
Hammers
Staves
Wands
Bows
Axes
+*Swords
----------short swords
----------long swords
-----------*great swords
------------------------Clean
------------------------Blue
------------------------Purple
--------------------------*Gold
------------------------------cruel great sword of fortitute $45k
------------------------------*vampiric great sword $70k
-----------------------------------15-22 +3 -1

Not thats theres a great sword or any of the others I added to your list, its just to demo Eve's sytem that I keep talking about. Each click on an item gives a new window with more descriptions of that type of item(s).

Every game maker that has any kind of trade system should play Eve and take notes, its that good.

darkzlevin

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jun 2005

02 Jul 2005 at 14:49 - 24

i like that idea of a NPC or a vending option attached to your character... maybe the dev team can add an attachment to the towns as "markets" each player can sit down and display their goods. kinda like ragnarok online vending options but more organised or we can setup our own NPC in allocated slots in the "markets" if slots are full, players can move to another district and use the slots there.

Born

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2005

Dread Knights

Mo/Me

03 Jul 2005 at 03:43 - 25

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkzlevin

i like that idea of a NPC or a vending option attached to your character... maybe the dev team can add an attachment to the towns as "markets" each player can sit down and display their goods. kinda like ragnarok online vending options but more organised or we can setup our own NPC in allocated slots in the "markets" if slots are full, players can move to another district and use the slots there.

Everquest had a system like that in an area called The Bazaar, It did stop 90% of the "WTS spam" but at a great cost to performance of anything less than a super computer with the fastest video card. Also people where forced to keep a player online to sell there items. You could walk up to the player vendor and look or buy what they had for sale. It also had a search engine to find who had that special item(s) you wanted.

Alathys Tylderaan

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Uk

Check Out My [Mark]

Me/

03 Jul 2005 at 04:03 - 26

Eve really is theone to look at when it comes to trade. When i used to play it, i was in charge of haulage and trade for morp materials, that game is really a massively multiplayer business sim, the trade system is awesome, and I'd love to see something similar in GW, takes the tedium out of selling items.

Gedscho

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2005

the Zen Men

Mo/W

03 Jul 2005 at 05:41 - 27

Quote:

Originally Posted by susanlin

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Yes, i am tired. But thank you, my virtual life is easy, thats why i play. No i didnt have a hard time catching up. I help others, they help me, you know thats a lot more effective than trading real gold for ig gold.

oh, and, please, go away you stupid bot.

cyberzomby

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2005

Netherlands

The Heroics

N/Me

03 Jul 2005 at 09:14 - 28

I like this idea a lot.
Ive played eve for a few days ( trial ) and fount it a bit overwhelming, but than again that was the whole game. But i freakin liked it. Think if i played that for a longer time it would have made sense
I also hope this is made a sticky
Lets put in the 5 item limit. No minimal prices. And perhaps a search engine. Or at least categories.
I like trading and earning some money that way, and i can live with the trade channel but i would also like it if theres some other system to do that

Maiyn

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

Canada

I Excentrix I [PuNK]

09 Jul 2005 at 01:56 - 29

I think a trading "city" would probably be the best bet.. but honestly it wouldn't stop the spam everywhere else.

Some of us traders DO only use the trade channel.... :/

generik

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

09 Jul 2005 at 02:15 - 30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joseph Fallen

The only problem I see with the idea is that people would abuse it and use it as additional storage. Let's say that I have too many items and I want to make room to go farm, so I place twenty items in the NPC Traders and price them at 10 million gold each. Nobody will buy them and so in effect this will act like additional storage.

I say that if they implement anything like this, then the item shouldn't be stored in an NPC's inventory. The items should remain in your storage chest and be automatically removed when they are sold.

Also, I think it would be important to limit the number of items that you can place on consignment. Somewhere between 1 and 5 max.

Yeap.. I agree with that too.

To counter that abuse they should limit the number of items listable.
Make it an auction system, the seller do not get to decide the price.
Once an item is listed, that's it, it is not removable from the auction house.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maiyn

I think a trading "city" would probably be the best bet.. but honestly it wouldn't stop the spam everywhere else.

Some of us traders DO only use the trade channel.... :/

Actually LA *is* the trading city....

=HT=Ingram

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2005

Anchorage Alaska

Haz Team [HT]

R/W

30 Jan 2006 at 09:44 - 31

Our concept was open at one point but I could not find it any longer... Don't know if it was deleted or lost.

In any case it was similar to this except using a NPC in your guild hall to do the trading for you. Thus you set the price you want and give the NPC the item in a sell slot. (similar to storage but only 10 slots like a bag)

Then that item appears in all the towns at the auction trader. a buyer can scroll through it and or search itemized lists for what they are looking for. and buy from there.

When the seller logs back in they can check the NPC in the guild for either their item which did not sell yet, Or to claim their gold in the slot where the item was. If they didn't sell it then maybe the price is a little too high. and they need to adjust it to a more reasonable level. the cap would still be 100K but maybe it can combine with # ectos or some other requirement as it does when you buy armor from crafters...

Last I heard this was rather similar to what they were thinking about for Chapter 2 but I have not seen the details on it yet. I think it will have to do with the controlled faction areas instead of the guild halls as in our original concept.

ingy...