What do PvPers want?

I'm trying to seperate the key elements of what PvPers want. If you are not a "PvPer", do not post here. I'm going to make one for PvEers in a second. I would merge them into one, but then it will just be a flame fest, and this is not what this is all about. Only post for yourself. Do not post against another post, etc. Just post what you as a PvPer would like.

For me?

I would like everything instantly, which essentially means I want UAS/R. You might say I want everything handed to me on a silver platter, but that's not true. I don't want my wins to be given to me. I want to fight for those. I don't want my guild's rating to be handed to me. I don't want that worthless /fame emote to be handed to me. Those are the things I want to earn. Worthless statistics from many perspectives. But to me, that's what PvP is.
PvP is opponents, all on perfectly even playing fields, with all the same options available to them, fighting against one another where the only thing that decides victory is teamwork, the build's quality, a bit of luck, and how well you excecute your build individually.


This is supposed to be a solution to a universal question: what the hell do we all want... so if you're just going to rant and rave like an idiot, shut up.

Yes man, we all want the UAS button. And it has been suggested a million times in a million other threads...

And I thought last time earning your way through PvP was what the PvPers want and agreeably a good compromise?

You're addressing what PvPers want. What about what PvE and PvPers want!?

What if you play both equally? Enjoy both equally?

I don't want to see everything unlocked right before I step into a match. It'd would make my PvE character rather useless. How so, well stepping into the ring I'm now faced with this pre-made character that has all the skills, all the upgrades, all the l337 weapons. Where would that put my PvE character in the arena then?

And no I want to PvP with my PvE character. It's one game, not two. I want to be able to PvP and PvE as seamlessly as possible. Yes I do enjoy developing new characters. I do enjoy GvGing. I do enjoy Tombing with people who's got brain, (usually friends). I do enjoy going to Arena to test out my builds or just for quick short fun.

Now you tell what would someone who enjoys both PvP and PvE want?

When there was not unlock skill through PvP, I admitted there's a serious problem. I would spend hours on PvP and ended up broke. Someone who spends as much hour in PvP suddenly becomes richer and a whole lot more competitive. But now that's solved somewhat.

*snip flame, tired of the complaining, sorry*

I want UAS/UAR.

I'm both a PvP and PvE'r, but moving more toward pure PvP.



I don't want to sidetrack this discussion so I won't even mention what I think about this update except to say that I like it as a compromise. Well heck, I'll go on a bit to say the one thing I'd change is the whole PvE locations of the faction traders. If they had the Faction traders in the PvP arena areas I'd be more than satisfied.

Here's how I feel the game can be improved

1) I don't want items to unlock, I want to get the items for my PvE char which I bring for PvP all the time.

2) Rewards in tomb should be improved. Not by a factor of 10 as someone claim, but by about 2 - 3. There are already rewards for playing in tomb, like getting favor, celestial sigils, and random drop.

Frankly, I like how things are now. The only thing that could turn your gaming experience into a nightmare would be not finding nice and skilled people to play with.

I think GvG can earn you everything very fast, and you would earn it while enjoying PvP and improving your strategies. I couldn't ask for more...oh well, immortality maybe?

My two cents.

I want UAS/R. But at this point I would be willing to settle for just an increase of faction rewards from how laughably small they are right now, so as to put the time investment on par with what I would have to do unlocking through PvE.

I play competitive games/sports all the time. What I want in Guild Wars' PvP is the thing I take for granted in all the other activities... to have all the equipment I (and my opponents) need for battle without having to go through some elaborate process.

PvP is not about getting stuff, it is about the thrill of competition. The goal of any competition is not about earning equipment needed to be complete, it's about out thinking and out playing your equally prepared opponent.

PvP focus and it's intrinsic rewards for a job well done is supposed to be different than other gameplay types to be on par with other successful competitve games/sports. Coming in with access to all needed tools and equipment is just a basic, universal necessity in competitive activities EXCEPT Guild Wars.

I hope this is realized and that they always refund the 24 attribute points after battle (to strategize freely) and that they include UAS and UAR (so we're all using pure skill to win).

as a general PvPer, I think each Profession should have a basic set of skills unlocked at the first time you make it. (WITHOUT having to make a PvE character and going thought he tutorial to unlock them). So what I'm talking about is the 1st and maybe the 2nd level skill sets unlocked just on a PvP creation. Lets face it without at least some skills a PvP build is completely useless in PvP...

Then use the new Faction rewards to unlock, or PvE playing to get all the rest unlocked...
We do need the Balthazar and the Rune Trader in the guild hall desperately, so the PvP characters can buy the unlocks or Runes directly and still not have to make a PvE, and get it to a point in the game where they exist to unlock the skills or weapon upgrade for PvP. I rarely leave the guild hall with that character. not too big on arenas... I prefer hall of heroes or guild battles I could care less for the arenas... they are just for practice in my view. Maybe a arena attached to the guild hall for head to head practice with people from your guild would be nice. No faction for that of course...

Otherwise I think the concept for Balthazar is VERY good. Its mostly just placement of where he is in the game. I have not gone back to pre-searing to see if he is there but I somehow doubt that he is. so at the very least you still have to make one PvE character for each class to unlock the basic skills, and to get at least one to Balthazar.

Lastly I would like to see PvP characters only have a backpack... making sure that bags and belts are not possible to be added to a PvP character makes sure that the PvP character build is not being forced to be a mule for extra storage for PvE characters. which is being done... Even by myself... Why then do I want it removed? well I'm doing it cause its possible, and cause most everyone else I know is doing it, so not doing it make me have a certain disadvantage because others are. So if we make it so everyone can not do it, then it is not a problem loosing that extra storage, and it reduces the people using that space to hoard runes, or dyes , or whatever to drive prices up and cause inflation.

I'll post PvE wishing in other area. I play both, but look at boh in different ways... But my opinion is still clear enough on this I think.

Oh and personally I think these Faction point requirements are a little LOW actually. As it is right now the PvP want to make it easier to unlock the skills and ect, not the same as PvE, so that is why they made it so low I would imagine. But as it is now winning just a few Guild battles and you unlock a superior or elite. well... Assuming you have unlocked the minors and some majors already that is...

{edit}

faction junk costing the following:

runes:
minor = 500
major = 750
superior = 1000

weapon upgrades:
minimum = 500
maximum = 1000

skill unlocking:
basic = 500
elite = 1000

this would be perfect imo, you can get everything you want much faster than what they have right now.

Ouch... Don't you think that's a bit steep? I think the rewards system should stay the same for GvG, but be raised quite a bit for tombs. I don't know about you guys, but I'm shooting for LESS grind here.

"Winning a few guild battles"? Have you ever been in GvG? It represents the pinnacle of PvP and the place the best and brightest go to duke it out... Winning even a single battle there is not a simple matter.

hehe... I like dbgtboy's better

Thats what automatic matchmaking is for, so you are relatively equal to your opponents in GvG.

yea I personally just think its a little low with current levels. my numbers are probably a little high though for mosts tastes. but it should be a little higher then current I think. I mean I just unlocked Superior vigor after only 4 guild battles... and 2 tomb runs... so I just thought that was a little too easy... but again, unless you already unlocked all the other vigors as I had, I guess it really isn't.

I'll go ahead and remove those... I dont want it to become a flame war over it. more interested in other opinions.

Most of us wanted UAS, many of us left in droves the remaining suggested a compromise which at the moment is not practical

I want less flaky servers, less error 7, less auto-lose when critical team members drop during a GvG and we're stuck fighting 7v8, and fewer laggy warp glitches when body blocking is a factor, so actual precise, competitive play is possible, and issues with ANet's servers don't unfairly bias matches.

Okay, i'm not a supporter of UAS/R but I'm all for lower faction prices. I don't agree with the exact prices since they're a little off IMO, but around that is fine.

For me-
Runes--
Minor: 250
Major: 750
Superior: 1500

Weapon Upgrades-
Minimum: 500
Max: 1250 (I still don't quite understand "max", but if their that much better... they shouldn't be real cheap)

Skills-
Regular: 250
Elite: 1000


Honestly, the only thing I REALLY think is wrong and want changed is the skill costs. 1000 for one skill is definetly not worth it, anything above 500 for a regular skill is too expensive.

GvG would be the pinnacle if everyone was forced to win the guild hall in HoH but as it is it's just about equal to HoH.

Especially after this it will be easy to find a win in GvG.

I've played a lot of FPS and most of them have some kind of unlocking system. I'm not saying that it's wrong to want UAS/UAR because I do but it's far from unique even among FPS in that respect.

UAR/UAS

In my mind, hours played isn't a skill, and has no place in a skill based game. I can't grasp how some people can claim that skill means everything but then still defend the tedious skill-unlocking process that is currently being used in the game. Sure, some people like to grind, but then, some people like to suffocate themselves to get off. I don't see why a PvE player would even object to a UAS button, it doesn't affect them in any way. It's not as if their PvE character suddenly becomes worthless if they do introduce it, PvP characters aren't going to suddenly show up in PvE areas. PvE players that also enjoy PvP aren't barred from using the button either, so I fail to see how it is unfair to them. I think that if they did put the UAS button back into the game, the PvP would become much more exciting and generally more fun, as players wouldn't be restricted to playing only with the skills they've unlocked and would have many, many more options for their builds, which in turn would lead to many specialized builds and theme builds and less of the generic cookie cutter builds we're seeing in the arena these days.

I'd also like to see more quick and easy to access PvP types. Right now we have competition and team arenas, but why not add two, six, and eight person competition arenas? What about a capture the relic style game, but in the random arenas? Throwing in a few extra arenas to PvP in would dramatically extend the replay value of the game, and make PvP more appealing to casual gamers. Or at least, that's my two cents.

The amusing thing is, this thread is very short because the one major thing we're really asking for is a simple numerical reduction to make our time investments more reasonable.

The PvE thread is 4 pages long and full of crackpot ideas which are either unviable, impractical, or belong in a different game.

Easy, fancy dress.

A whole load of Charr battling a fleet of many-sized Gwens.

I don't find PvP very exciting, it's a bit repetitious (is that a word? ) so it'd have to be something MAD like that

If that's so, my Guild ranked between 100-150 must be Uber. I thought we were just decent...

No sarcasm intended, just sincere wonder. Maybe we have different points of view.

Hehe, true.

Perhaps because PvE have a idea over improvements as all that the PvP appears to do is whine about how they cannot have every single rune, skill and piece of gear avaible from the start?

I am sorry, I forgetten that Guild Wars is the fantasy version of Counter Strike ...

i think everything is good the way it is.that is just my opinion.

You misunderstand because you likely think that both modes serve the same purpose in providing enjoyment to its fans. A wise man once wrote...

"PvE players love the thrill of accomplishment and the high level rewards it brings them at the end. PvP players love the thrill of victory, using the high level equipment they bring in at the beginning."

We PvP players are frustrated with a goal oriented system that slows down our ability to start with full gear. Getting gear is not our purpose in having fun, while defeating our opponents with no restrictions on skills, gear or strategies is our purpose in having fun. Force less goals to endure (we'll do that in PvE), and emphasize more pure, skillful competition. That's what we want.

My God. If any of you folks had an original argument, your heads would explode. This is the same exact sorry point you guys have been trying to make for months now, and it's just as invalid now as it was then.

Nah, I posted an original comment some hours ago here, about getting easily 2000 faction points in roughly two hours and about GvG not being the pinnacle of PvP at all. I was responding to Jasper's post.

Pot, Kettle, Black.

I want to be able to spend as much time on PvP as I do on PvE and earn the same rewards, such as items, skills, and the like. Right now, I earn less with my time spent in PvP than in PvE. I want it to be equal.

Please respect the original poster's wishes.

He ironically replied to a post who didn't, so he's *almost* justified.

I was more talking about Weezer's request for this thread to contain the view of PvP players only. I mean I know such a request is near impossible to keep... but I believe Jasper is a PvP player, and Drakron is (guessing) a PvE player who is only trying to entice flames from Jasper.

I do not think Jasper's post, to which Drakron originally replied, was flamebait. Sure you can say that his declarations tha the requests PvE players made in the PvE thread were just his opinions, but I doubt anyone would argue against that - and I do not think any of what he said was flaming towards the PvE community. you could say his post was slightly askew - but I perceived it more as an observation on his part.

Granted, I now realize that much of this is about what "I" perceive, so I may be way off here. I assumed that Drakron was simply trying to incite a flamefest, and if my assumption was incorrect, I apologize.

Um, no.

Evan is right - anywhere else, it would have been flamebait. Here, it should have been just, as he put it, a skewed observation. I should also point out that it was about a single thread, not a body of people. But then someone had to come in and make them all look awesome.

Stop discussing flaming, its as useless as flaming itself. You're wasting the poor owner's bandwith.

Get back on track with this:
I want to be able to spend as much time on PvP as I do on PvE and earn the same rewards, such as items, skills, and the like. Right now, I earn less with my time spent in PvP than in PvE. I want it to be equal.

Keep in mind I was originaly replying about this "pearl".

Also my "pot, kettle, black" reply it was right in the money, there is a significant PvP only fraction that is making <i>"the same exact sorry point" "have been trying to make for months now, and it's just as invalid now as it was then"</i> anyone with a funtional brain cell sould have realized after all this months the PvP unlocking system is not going to be removed (they just removed much of the grind and random), the fact everything was unlocked on the alpha and beta was the same reason why we could run by empty fields to reach the Forge ... you dont see anyone saying to make that area as it was in the Beta do you?

I want to address this.

In PvE unlocking is a matter of chance, you dont know if that purple armor have in relations to runes as in the new PvP system you do, also its a rune you can use with every single PvP character.

As for skills, it takes days to unlock in PvE ... if you reached far you know that at the end you paying plat for skills and signets, in some cases you can luck out but good luck trying to get elites without spending days either getting a character there or farming money to get the skill with a lv20 character that swicthes secondary class.

True that in some cases it gets faster but when you unlocked about 3-4 classes skills with the same character I bet skill cost end up being over 10 plat (or more), a mix of PvE and PvP will allow the best of two worlds, you get something out of playing PvP as you did not and you can use it to get what you want, not being subject to the random effect of PvE farming.

Hey! Look! Assholes hijacked a perfectly non-flaming thread and turned it into every other PvE vs PvP war! Thanks Drakron, amongst others!!

This isn't about whining
This isn't about PvE concerns
This isn't about telling another PvPer that his idea of PvP sucks
This isn't about bickering

If you're not going to use this thread to tell Arena.Net exactly what YOU and only YOU want from PvP, without making yourself look like an asshole, then don't post. If you want to voice your PvE concerns, I made another thread for that. If you consider yourself a bit of both, then post in each thread telling Arena.Net both what you want from PvE, and what you want from PvP. Getting rid of rude jackasses is the only way we will ever resolve this long standing, immature flame fest. If you want to flame, there are several hundred other threads for that.

PS: I don't care what you want to address, it's his oppinion. Get over it.

Whoa I think we need a group hug