Tested, and devastating Energy Denial W/N

Yukito Kunisaki

Yukito Kunisaki

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2005

Chicago, IL

W/N

Ah, from the conditions loving W/N poster comes, a newly tested and highly effective ANTI-ENERGY WARRIOR!!!

stats:

7+1 strength
10+2 axe
10 curses
9+1 tactics

skills:

Fear Me!
Penetrating Blow / Dismember
Disrupting Chop / Executioner's Strike
Rush
Wither {E}
Malaise
Parasitic Bond
Plague Touch

From what an enemy told me in random arena pvp [he was swearing at me but still acknowledged the effect], Wither and Malaise's energy degens STACK! This will reduce any caster to 0 energy degen and a warrior or ranger to -1+ energy degen. This is downright catastrophic if it's a spell spamming class. I'd like some opinions on this.

Sprint > Rush. I know this, but this is an energy intensive build and if you like, you can go ahead and put sprint in there. However, the key to this build is to lay down your hexes, and hope that you can throw on Parasitic bond before the enemy tries to remove hex. If they notice it, but your Para Bond lands before they remove hex. GG. You can spam Para Bond to a minor degree but as u can see, only the elite skill costs more than 5 energy in this whole build.

The fact that the skill ends early due to energy hitting 0 means 2 things. One your hp degen disappears, 2 their hp degen disappears. This is where the fun begins. Slap on Malaise and continue to yell Fear Me! like a madman.

Thankfully, if they do decide to remove hex your parasitic bond, you gain 90 hp from it. Go ahead and do it again! ^_^ This build to a degree will heal itself quite well under heavy arrow/melee fire. [spell dmg is a problem for it obviously] However, I'm wondering, if 2 warriors slap 2 separate Malaises and Withers on one enemy, does that mean that enemy is clobbered with -8 energy degen?!

I know wither and malaise stack and fear me makes things worse. I'd like to thank the unfortunate mesmer I had to nail with this combo for swearing at me saying having no regen is the pits...

Schorny

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki
However, I'm wondering, if 2 warriors slap 2 separate Malaises and Withers on one enemy, does that mean that enemy is clobbered with -8 energy degen?! No, same things don't stack. If you cast 2 Withers, only the stronger one would be active...

IcyFighter

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

Mo/Me

I'd drop a class and hit up the mesmer for Ether Lord. It's a much better energy denial spell.

Enigmatics

Enigmatics

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2005

Tenafly, NJ

Defenders of Rillanon

W/Mo

Ether lord lasts far less, while it reduces your energy to 0 at first. Wither and mailase last a horribly long time.

rii

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2005

UK

Energy regen denial is my favorite type of mesmer, and one which is probably underrated (inspiration offensive and necro pvp LOL say most)
malaise on its own is actually more effective than stacked with wither. This reduces say, a monk to 2 pips, which means theyll rarely have 0 energy (the point where malaise ends). This still results in a very good shutdown, which lasts long and is easily useable on everyone due to spammability. with only 2 pips a monk can cast orison (without boon) every 7/8 seconds, and thats a big enough reduction in efficiency to give you a huge advantage. Whatsmore, often people dont really look for the hexes like malaise, and they especially dont notice they only have two pips , whereas 0 pips is kinda obvious. Subtle, but highly effective. O yeah, and malaise on a ranger is also deadly. rangers spam, say barrage, with maliase they have 1 pip, thats a barrage every 6 seconds, with level 14 expertise . i like it.

Ether lord is good, but use it wisely. Loosing all your energy when youve got all those points in inspiration (16 is -4 pips.... what i consider worth it) is the keystone to embarrasment....

Enigmatics

Enigmatics

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2005

Tenafly, NJ

Defenders of Rillanon

W/Mo

Ugh... I don't like inspiration that much to get it to 16. But then I've never made a energy denial mesmer.

kungfumonkey2

kungfumonkey2

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Virginia

ACE~Ancient Combat Experts

E/Mo

/clap

Nice fresh build, even if some of you disagree at least he is trying new things. You will see warriors becoming more and more like undercover agents in PvP, and start screwing over teams that choose to ignore them all together.

Pharalon

Pharalon

Beta Tester

Join Date: Jan 2005

Carebear Club

Both Wither and Malaise are pretty awful spells. All the target has to do is a quick switch to an empty weapon set, both hexes expire, and you've cost them all of 2-3 energy and the second it takes to flip weapon sets. Meanwhile, you're down 5 seconds, 15 energy, and your elite slot is all but wasted.

If you want to run energy denial on a warrior, go for a wa/mes. The necros energy denial options just don't stack up very well comparitively.

Enigmatics

Enigmatics

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2005

Tenafly, NJ

Defenders of Rillanon

W/Mo

They wear off when you switch weapons?! That's garbage.

Pharalon

Pharalon

Beta Tester

Join Date: Jan 2005

Carebear Club

They'll wear off if your weapon switch drops your energy below 0, which depending on your setup, will more than likely be the case.

Enigmatics

Enigmatics

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2005

Tenafly, NJ

Defenders of Rillanon

W/Mo

Ah I see what you mean.

Louis Ste Colombe

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

I've been wondering for a while what 4 or 5 warriors with Fear Me!, high tactic scores and some adrenalin gain skills (to the limit in tactics too?) could do... That could be like -15/20 energy on an area? Right?

That could be a lot of fun

And we can get some interesting variation depending on primaries/ secondaries, all them hinting at energy removal... Hum... Pretty much all classes can do something in that direction...

Too bad such a team will be tough to put together for me at least

Louis,

JoDiamonds

JoDiamonds

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

New England

I'd like to echo the applause. New fun builds are awesome. This is what I really like about GuildWars. =)

Yukito Kunisaki

Yukito Kunisaki

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2005

Chicago, IL

W/N

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pharalon
They'll wear off if your weapon switch drops your energy below 0, which depending on your setup, will more than likely be the case. Go ahead, spend time weapon switching, these skills can be spammed ya know. Even on a warrior's meager energy pool, at 5 energy use, you're energy regen will NEVAR be the same...

What's worse, I can laugh with glee that if an enemy is switching weapons to get this hex off of him, there's a very NICE chance I stole a whole precious 2 seconds he could have used to save himself/his teammate, from dying.....

Some of my guildees complained that Malaise sucked due to hp degen... wtf? What's easier to get back? Hp or Energy? lol

actually, when u weapon switch back, I'm sure u don't gain any energy, just extra max en. So yeah, you're at like 0 energy for a sec and u just recast hexes ^_^

mr_boo

mr_boo

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

San Diego, CA US

SoF

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pharalon
They'll wear off if your weapon switch drops your energy below 0, which depending on your setup, will more than likely be the case. I've always had a question about this...so when they switch to a non energy set, wither & malaise wear off, but when they switch back to their regular set, the target at the very least will have 0 energy right? So then, wither & malaise essentially only really last long enough to drain energy and not HP. Am I getting this right?

Yukito Kunisaki

Yukito Kunisaki

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2005

Chicago, IL

W/N

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackace
HE means when you carry a normal weapon, and for instance an +15/-1 regen weapon. If you're hexed put the +15 energy weapon on. If you're at 15 or less energy, put back on the original weapon. You'll drop to 0 energy or below and remove any hexes that end on 0 energy. Rinse and repeat at will.

Malaise used to be one of the top 10 spells in the game easily, because when it didnt end on 0 it was ridiculous as it combined with every active energy denial spell in the game too good. The thing is the devs nerfed the wrong aspect of it(should have been it's recharge) which hurt the skill badly.

Wither was always a P.O.S. It's called game balancing. If these hexes didn't have a respective weakness, wouldn't everyone be using it? At any case if the enemy's energy hits 0. Wouldn't that mean you've done your job? Just recast both hexes [or at least malaise] and keep yelling Fear Me! If their energy costs where higher, I'd never concieve of this build unless I was wearing Gladiator Armor. Yay for cheap energy denial! ^_^

arredondo

arredondo

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackace
HE means when you carry a normal weapon, and for instance an +15/-1 regen weapon. If you're hexed put the +15 energy weapon on. If you're at 15 or less energy, put back on the original weapon. You'll drop to 0 energy or below and remove any hexes that end on 0 energy. Rinse and repeat at will.

Malaise used to be one of the top 10 spells in the game easily, because when it didnt end on 0 it was ridiculous as it combined with every active energy denial spell in the game too good. The thing is the devs nerfed the wrong aspect of it(should have been it's recharge) which hurt the skill badly.

Wither was always a P.O.S.
Hmmm, I'm pretty sure that if you weapon switich to get Malaise to end, any negative value is still present. They would still need to generate +5 energy to be at true '0' if the switch of weapons put them at -5 energy. It's worth throughly testing out.

Enigmatics

Enigmatics

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2005

Tenafly, NJ

Defenders of Rillanon

W/Mo

I just realized that there's a skill called echo... So i'm off to try echo with debilitating shot on my ranger.

Jia Xu

Jia Xu

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

England

Dynasty Warriors

Mo/E

I personally love wither on W/N - its a genuinely useful skill in slowing an enemies healing, though my personal preference has to go to defile flesh, seeing how it almost halfs their healing capability (on only one target of course) and doesnt peter out when their energy is nulled.

Red Locust

Red Locust

Site Contributor

Join Date: May 2005

Yeah blackace is right. It takes like 2-3 seconds to switch to empty hands, get those hexes off, and switch back to your equipment. You don't even lose any energy (15 energy --> 0 energy --> wither + malaise end --> back to 15 energy). It's not worth those 2 slots you're gonna waste, unless you're playing arena and relying on the enemy to be noobs.

Yukito Kunisaki

Yukito Kunisaki

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2005

Chicago, IL

W/N

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Locust
Yeah blackace is right. It takes like 2-3 seconds to switch to empty hands, get those hexes off, and switch back to your equipment. You don't even lose any energy (15 energy --> 0 energy --> wither + malaise end --> back to 15 energy). It's not worth those 2 slots you're gonna waste, unless you're playing arena and relying on the enemy to be noobs. Wait a second, so by re-equiping an off-hand weapon after ur energy hits 0, you gain the extra energy AND the energy max from the off hand? That's not true. I tried it with my Vigor Leggings in pve. If my hp is very low, I take off leggings and put them on, and voila, my hp is still moving at the same place, but the max was changed...

That can NOT be right... So you can have infinite energy by just taking off and putting on a focus? No qucking way man... Then they have to fix that. I still think my build is sound because from what I've seen, by removing your off hand and putting it back on, you still need to regen 5 energy to do anything and by then, Malaise will be on you along with a Fear Me! shout so you could very well be at 3 energy with 2 pips energy regen. Taking off the focus shouldn't make u lose 3 energy, but you lose X focus's max energy instead... But if this build can keep you below 5-10 energy, your argument doesn't make any sense...

QuixotesGhost

QuixotesGhost

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

It's true, Yukito. Focuses and other such items add immedialy to your current/max energy. My warrior/mes switches from a Inscribed Chakram and a Shield all the time. So if you try to tap me out, I can switch to the shield, then after wither ends switch back to the chakram for an immediate boost of 9 energy, which is what my chakram gives me.

Quote:
hat can NOT be right... So you can have infinite energy by just taking off and putting on a focus? No qucking way man... Then they have to fix that. I still think my build is sound because from what I've seen, by removing your off hand and putting it back on, you still need to regen 5 energy to do anything and by then, Malaise will be on you along with a Fear Me! shout so you could very well be at 3 energy with 2 pips energy regen. Taking off the focus shouldn't make u lose 3 energy, but you lose X focus's max energy instead... But if this build can keep you below 5-10 energy, your argument doesn't make any sense... No not exactly, this game tracks negative energy when you do the focus switch. Say I'm at 4 energy and I have my +9 energy chakram out, then I switch to the shield to put me at -5. Although my nrg gauge will read 0 it'll actually take me a couple seconds before I start gaining energy again, my regen has to make up the -5 deficit.

Yukito Kunisaki

Yukito Kunisaki

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2005

Chicago, IL

W/N

Thanks for banning that idiot... ^_^

Also, I'm fine with people saying they switch weapons now if that negative is tracked. What's more, the recycle time on BOTH hexes is very quick, which means I can easily track it's effects on you in two ways...

Your hp dgen disappears, my hp dgen disappears. Then it's a dead given I know you're not getting any energy degen.

As far as efficiency goes, how can ANYONE possibly say that 25s. of -2 to -4 energy degen is WORSE than Ether Lord's 9s. of 2 E dgen with like 20s. recycle time? As an earlier poster said, not only do these hexes last a horribly long time, but wouldn't reducing a monk to a Warrior's regen be catastrophic with blanket hexes since there's only one skill I know of that can remove several hexes at once?

m0rn

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

How about deleting his messages too?

Yukito Kunisaki

Yukito Kunisaki

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2005

Chicago, IL

W/N

yeah, those ads are a BIgITCH...

glossu

glossu

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jul 2005

Drunken Warriors

W/N

Tried this build out in the competitive arena. It worked real well. I dropped rush/sprint for Ressurection Signet because I just can't go in without it. Great harrasement build. When I was able to really get my blanket hex (parabond) down at the right time, it was truly devestating. I saw Remove Hex pop up and I would drop the bond.

I was using Gladiator's Armour, but I wonder if you think another set+certain runes would be better for me?

Not sure if this build would be quite as effective in GvsG/Tombs, since Mesmers are more capable of denying energy for longer periods of time to more people because of the energy pool differences.

So, any armour tips or strategy on how to use this build in an 8vs8 arena?

arredondo

arredondo

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

Malaise works VERY nicely if you make a decent build with it. The foci switch concern is not an issue at all if your tactics are sound. I've been using it (and Ether Lord) and have had good success with them. I must continue to work out some kinks however.

Zeru

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

I'd love to see a build that makes malaise worthwhile vs non-scrubs (I sure hope it doesn't involve mind wrack) cause it beats me how an effective one could be applied. Though right now it's beyond the horribleness that it was before with a 4 second cast time under NR.

Ether lord is just plain awful no ifs and buts.

Quote:
was using Gladiator's Armour, but I wonder if you think another set+certain runes would be better for me? Gladiators is the best warrior armor period. Typical non-hammer setup has everything glad except for knights boots. If you're hammer you take stoneskin gauntlets.

This build won't be effective in tombs/gvg vs the better players. The OP started another thread on war/mes fear me which is a much stronger setup; I suggest you take a look at that for energy denial.

rii

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2005

UK

On individual targets ra/me is better, echoed debilitating shot as opposed to echoed fear me. Also, i unlocked fear me a while ago and noticed the aoe of it has been downgraded to 'adjacent' as opposed to near. Which sucks. its still not bad but debil shot probably outpaces it now.

Zeru

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

Echoed debil shot is absurd ST energy denial you are right.

With QZ and the echo up you basically are firing a debil every 1.33 seconds with Tigers Fury.

That's 30 energy every 4 seconds or 22.5 pips of energy degen.

It is mana intensive even with zealous but you can regain it in the downtime with echo.

Fear me builds have a place; I don't think they are that useful for gvg due to adrenaline issues but in tombs they are very powerful especially on altars (fgj+cyclone axe is just an adrenaline engine on a crowded altar).

Yukito Kunisaki

Yukito Kunisaki

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2005

Chicago, IL

W/N

Actually, this build is only really good at shutting out Warriors / Rangers since neither of them usually equip energy giving foci.

However, in Team or Random 4v4 pvp, it's quite possibly good since not everyone brings hex removal and if they do the foci switch, you can cast both spells again. Just be careful since it's 15e total to get the -4 degen up and some say it's better to shut down 2 non casters than 1 caster with Malaise + Wither.

Not a bad setup, just be wary of it's weaknesses.