Why is Thunderhead Keep so hard!!!

You certainly don't need 3 monks. I got through this mission on my 2nd try (same group) with only 1 monk primary plus me as a Me/Mo (split between healing & dom).

I didn't think it was a hard mission because of the easy success of my first character, until I went through as my ranger. I went through so many crappy groups. Then, I got a competent one that got through in one try. Once defending the king at the fort starts, like the others said, 2 people on catapults continuously firing and the rest guarding the stairs to the king in the center. For firing the cats, it works best if you fire one, then the other, rather than staying at the same one and waiting for the reload. Our team was kinda disappointed because we were so adept at working the cats that there were no bosses to SoC.

The biggest reason why this mission is so hard has nothing to do with the mission. It's the group. In most cases, the group doesn't play well together, or they only have one monk, or more than one person wants to be the leader, or everyone just goes on their own and does their own thing. If any of these apply then you will surely fail each and every time. This is one of the more strategic missions in the game. You have to think. You have to choose your spells carefully, work as a team, pick a leader, and follow directions. One of the other big problems with the mission is that people do not know how to be kind to the other players on the team. They swear and curse and eventually someone leaves. Then you are stuck. Because you have to have everyone to participate. Everyone has to be working together. If one person decides to stop healing because they are mad or if another leaves because of something a person said to them then that impacts the entire group and you can kiss the mission goodbye. I've seen it happen way too many times. Also, there is a level of strategy that you should think about when playing. Here are a few things to do in this mission that will help streamline the whole process.

1.) Protect the King! Protect the King! Protect the King! If the King dies then the mission is over. End of story.

2.) Call out what you are killing. Make sure everyone focuses on one beast at a time. If you do then they will go down faster; allowing you to move faster in the game and be more productive.

3.) When you first enter the mission you will face three big elephant beasts. Kill them and then you will come to a Y in the road. Turn right!! Do not turn left. Then go up the hill and turn left to kill the three ice beasts on top. The ones that you avoided by going right will still be there and will not be attacking yet because they don't see you. This allows you to take one group at a time and reduce the amount of damage you take as a team.

4.) Once you get to the bridge, pull the beasts from the other side onto the bridge. Then stay on the bridge and take the beasts down. If you do not pull the beasts then the patrol that will come up behind them will also attack you and probably outnumber you. You want to take the least damage that you can and reduce the risk of damage to the King. If even one person dies in the mission before the end that that person will have a Death Penalty. You can't afford a death penalty at the end of the mission.

5.) Unless you are a top notch experienced team who plays together extremely well (perhaps you are in the same guild) then I would HIGHLY recommend skipping the bonus. Otherwise, 9 times out of 10, the group will die and the mission will be over.

6.) Okay, when you get to the end, there will be beacons and catapults. Make sure you do NOT light the beacons otherwise you will be summoning more bad guys to come your way. Also, lighting the beacons is the bonus quest. Like I said before, I would suggest skipping the bonus and doing it later once you have completed the mission. So, leave the beacons alone!! Now, that brings us to the catapults. You need two casters manning the catapults. To man the catapults that means staying with them and making sure they are firing. To fire a catapult, simply pull the levers. You will need all the help you can get.

Now, why do I say have "casters" at each catapult?? It's really simple. You need casters because they can still do damage to incoming attacks by casting downward from the top area where the catapults are located. While they are casting down they can also SHOUT OUT what is coming from each side. This way you will know, in advance, what to expect and can form your defense accordingly. If you have anything else other than casters at the top then you will not be doing damage to the incoming attacks. You have to do both damage and SHOUT OUTs to be successful up there.

7.) Next, you will be faced with a boss at the end. You will have them trying to get to the King. Most of the time, they are successful and the mission is over and you are defeated. The reason why they are successful is because of poor teamwork, failure to man each doorway (east and west), someone left the catapult area when they were supposed to be up there, etc. Remember, casters can cast downward so keep them up high so they don't take damage. You want to minimize the amount of damage that your team takes while doing the most amount of damage you can.

8.) Also, do not rush this mission. Take your time. Think about it - What would you rather be doing? Would you rather take your time, form a strategy, get the team together, and beat the mission? Or, would you rather rush it and kill each mob one after the other without letting your team heal up and get their energy back and then eventually start dying and taking Death Penalty? Sounds stupid when you think about it but way too many teams rush the mission. I can't tell you how many times a group will yell out - What is your problem! Come back! Oh Crap!! Take the bottom!! Take the bottom!! Do not rush!! You have to play as a team. You MUST!!!

9.) Okay, now lets talk about drops. A drop is an item that appears with your name on it after a bad guy goes down. Too many players will stop fighting when a drop with their name on it appears. They figure - Might as well get the drop now in case we die! When you stop to pick up a dropped item, you cause yourself to take damage and to inflict zero damage to the bad guy who is hitting you and trying to kill you. Also, you risk your team as well. So, wait and clear the area first. Then go and pick up your drops. They will still be there.

10.) Okay there is one part of the mission that I forgot to talk about. This part is when you enter the city area and there are two levels of bad guys. There is a bottom level with a group of bad guys. There is a top level with bad guys. The top level is blocked by a door that the King will open when you walk him up there. Here is my advice. If you want to do less damage to the team, protect the King from harms way, and ensure that you get past this part without having to rez a team member then here is what you do. Everyone, and I MEAN EVERYONE (not almost everyone while two others go up and unlock the door), stays down below. From below, there are two groups of bad guys up top. One on the right and one on the left. Take out the group on the right first. You will see them. Have all of your casters cast upwards from down below. Protect them with healing and spells. Warriors do nothing! Nobody goes up top. Everyone stays down. Cast up and kill the group on the right. Then repeat the same thing for the group on the left. Once you are done you can sit back and rest happy that you didn't risk or expose your King to any damage and you didn't have to rez anyone either. Then, once both sides are taken out, go up top and pick up the dropped items. Then heal, max out your energy, and take on the last group right before you get to the area where the final part is located.

Well, I hope this helps everyone. I know it's a lot of information to take in but I hope it's useful. Just remember that this mission is not like the others. It is strategic. It tests your ability to think, work, and act as a team. So, pick your leader before the mission begins. Get two monks and two casters if you can. You definitely need two casters. One monk will suffice but they must be willing to do nothing but heal, heal, heal, heal. They can fight when they have to but they must be healing too, especially the King!! Okay, two monks, two casters, you definitely need a strong tank or two, and you need one person who can pull (for the bridge fight). Then, for the remaining slots in your team, just fill them with warriors. Also, you may need the Rebirth spell and lots of smithing!! If you can return damage back to the original source when you are hit then that is awesome.

Hope this helps everyone. Take care and good luck in the mission. See you on the other side!!

Thanks everyone for your replies. What you all have said make alot of sence. I will contiue to try this mission with the strategies you have given me. I will put them to good use. DM

Our team used simular strategies 2 on catapults 6 in center 2 calling targets. One difference the 2 on catapults were monks. Me and one more monk. This way we call the gate where target is approching and we can heal while still firing the catapults. Click click click while pressing F1 selects party member 1 number one casts heal.

the group i was in ran all the way to the stadium-like place. when we got there, we had our leader with jalis while 2 warriors guarded one entry, the other 2 guarded the other, killed whatever was trying to come in, then haul over to the other if we needed to. i was the only non-secondary monk warrior in the entire party. i mostly ran back from battle when my health dropped below 200, healed, and went back into battle. i died only once the entire time.

we kept doing that for about 15 to 20mins and completed it with only one person dropping because he or she whined about us skipping out on the bonus.

You will have the most problem defending the fortress when the boss is a monk! Had it once, and we had no way to kill him and his monk companion before the next group arrived! And that was with the better infused armor! I don´t know how hard it is now!

Wow, people actually found the ballistaes and catapults? I'm going to try this mission again tonight to see that. We just ended up in the same stadium like place and killed everything that came in. I was the only monk, and it worked out well with a necro charging my energy up. The monk boss was easy as me and two other characters were secondary mesmers. He attacked, we attacked, through down three backfires, he cast one spell and killed himself.

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Mission is all teamwork. I did it first time in a PuG of 6 people (2 left in beginning). And I laugh when people think they fail because there are not enough monks. If you build a character that deals ridiculously high damage but cannot stay alive for long, then you are useless. I hate it when people create a char that relies on a monk spamming heal spells on him to stay alive. It's much more efficient to have 2 tanking warriors that do mediocre damage but survive than one high damage warrior that relies on a Monk spamming heal spells on him, because the 2 mediocre damage tanking warriors will do the same if not more damage than the single high damage warrior and they are not as vulnerable because they do not depend on another character to keep them alive.

I found this mission fairly easy when I used a warrior monk that specialized in tanking/protection and hex removal (do people really expect a healing monk to be able to save 8 people who have been hit with conjure phatasm or other degen hexes and conditions? even if he has the mana the casting time alone will cause people to die). Two people manned the catapults and I could tank forever and even save other characters from being killed with shielding hands and shield of regeneration.

my advice, someone better man those ballistas right after the cutscene!

When I did this mission.. we had, if I remember correctly, two rangers (including me) a necro (on the ballista), an elementalist (on the other ballista), two warriors, and a monk.

Everybody except for the ballista firers stayed in the middle between the two gates. Any time a mob would get close to the gate, the ballista person would ping the map to let us know. We would run over, kill it, and by the time it was dead, the other gate started coming. We did this for quite a while, and even had time for one of the warriors to sprint away with the torch looking for the other brazier to light (we only found two, never found the third one) for the bonus.

It was amazingly easy, nobody died, and I completed it on my first try.

Did it without ballistas. One monk two warriors and the rest fire eles. Warriors aggro and block while eles dropped huge damage. The beacons were not lit though. I would rather get to Perdition Rock than to lose trying a 1000 xp bonus.

You basically siege everything you see. 3 players on the siege machines will do ok. Anything that escapes you...let the rangers/eles hit them when they pass underneath your feet in the doorways. Other than liting the whatever candles, thats basically all you do. The only thing you can't really siege is the few end bosses. They just keep healing themselves and moving on. Let them come to you. Always keep your eye on the battlefield for approaching enemy forces and send them packing with your siege cannons.

The way we completed it and was very easy even doing the bonus. This was on my 5th try.

2 Pyros
4 Warriors
2 monks

We split up into two teams. 2 warriors body blocked each gate and each side had 1 monk and 1 pyro. The Pyros manned the ballistas and sent AOE down on the mobs once they got to the gate. Monks roamed back and fourth healing and running the other ballistas.

I don't think anyone died.

The day after i posted this thread, i got a competent group. Every one followed directions and maintained their posts and we beat the mission. We only had one monk (the 2nd was a henchie). Thanks all for you comments. BTW since then i have beat the other 2 fire island mission on the 1st time (died at the end of the last mission), Thunderhead was harder to me then these last few missions. DM

I think I've tried Thunderhead Keep at least 20 times, and 4 or 5 times I even had what you could call really competent groups.

Died three times at the Mursaat monk (no mesmers in the party), and that's as far as I ever got. Another time I had a power outage when we reached the fort. When I got back online 10 minutes later my clan mate told me that they had completed the mission.

Teamwork is definitely key. I've played Thunderhead Keep using various strategies (using the siege weapons and not) and they have all led to success. Although I think it's easier if you use the siege weapons as you might be able to kill some bad guys before they reach you. Splitting parties to watch both doors isn't bad either as both doors are seldom rushed simultaneously so backup can be called in as needed.

With one char our team was down to 7 people (an ele guild mate got disconned while defending the fort) and with another we used mhenlo as a healer monk. In all cases it was teamwork that carried the day.

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Yeah, best idea is to always kill the bosses during the siege last. The Jades and Mursaat will kill your henchies fast with spectral agony, so it's very important to take them out. Also the bosses have lots of hitpoints and can survive for a long time, a long time during which your team gets slaughtered by the other baddies. If you take out those baddies first, you can hack at the boss alone and slowly cut him to pieces

Easiest way in my opinion:

Have 2 range fighters that know when to trigger the catapults. Each on one side.
Basically, it is only worth shooting when enemies are in the brown circles (guess why there are brown circles....). Constant shooting is a waste of time + less damage on enemies that entered the keep.

Hardest thing I ever have is finding a Competent team. Mostly I go with henchmen,. but this is one of the few that you really need to go with real people to be successful. Unfourtunately being a ranger my options are henchmen or nothing cause no one wants rangers. so I decided to wait till some of my other guild members get to that point and I'll go with them. They are the only ones I trust anymore anyway. And for those of you yelling and laughing that I have not" finished the last mission yet" and I have been playing since beta days. I don't care. I finished with one character and took my sweet time and enjoyed myself the second time. I have no interest in rushing things when the game is not even completed yet. this way I can play what and when I want too and enjoy it every time. Between all 4 characters I have them all in different places and play when I want too on each...

This mission is not actually that difficult, but it does force team cooperation, which apparantly is difficult. My Elementalist has been stuck on this mission for ages, as when i am him i cannot find a group with a monk competant enough to heal the king. Or a group competant enough to work together at the end. I created my own Monk, did this first time through easilly. I have done it again with another character, with my Guild. Easy. But still not with my Elementalist...It's all in the teamwork. Work together and communicate and you'll be fine. And man those Ballistae!

"Assuming you can make it to the Fort....."

There are 2 strategies that work well. I have used both and both times I've past the mission. The trick is getting the whole team to work together. Our teams build was

2 W/Mo (Tanks), 2 Eles (Nukers), Ranger (Trapper), Necro (Me), Monk (healer) .. then any others you thinkwill help.

Ok like i said earlier 2 ways ......

1. You all stay with the king... This is dangerous but will make you group stronger (maby) than the other way. Its dangerous because the area in which you will need to stand will be right by the king. KEEP AN EYE ON HIM. But if your all together your tanks are tanking and your eles are nuking you healer is healing and your necro is mana buffign then you should do fine.... For the most of the time you will be taking on groups of 3 -5 but at one point things seem to peak ... ususally just before the end. At this point there may be 6-9 mobs you are fighting. Focus fire and always kill the minions 1st. Esp if there are Musatt eles these guys must go down fast using this strat because of you partys bunched formation.

The second way is also dangerous but in a different way.. Same team makup but this time leave the king at the top where he stands and you go in the middle. Run from gate to gate killing each mob of 3 - 4 at they appear at the gate ... DO NOT GO OUTSIDE. The mobs seem to alternate so running between them shouldnt be a problem.. Once again always keep an eye on the king. This is the dangerous part in this plan if you do not kill the enemy fast enough then some may slip though and get to the king. Try not to let this happen. This may happen if the group is split... do not split your group.. Haul all 8 of your asses from gate to gate together and this mission is easy. but remember allways have one leader whos calls EVERYONE follows.

Sort this before you even enter the mission.

We had a quite unique but effective set-up due to a numerous group of guildies coming. We had 3 Warriors, me, a W/N, and 2 W/R, 2 Eles, 1 support/Nuker Necro and a prot/healer and healer. One W/R stayed on west with a prot/healer monk and an e/mo nuker on ballista. Due to my friends 1337 nukeing and ballista sniping they had no trouble. The rest were on east. When the boss came, the tank with the prot monk solo tanked the boss for about 5 mins while we slaughtered the monks/cultists and jades. After they were all dead, we Raped the Mursaat boss. Everything else from there is simple. Good Drops too.

Finally beat the mission after like 10 failures. The teams i were in tried almost all the various tactics people mentioned, the one that pulled us through [and it was actualyl a whitewash, we killed Dorian outside the fort even]:


1.) 1 Monk [me]
2.) 2 support healers [E/Mo and a Necro with Well of blood etc]
3.) 3 Warriors and another Elem and Ranger.

After cutscene we split up in 2 teams but we all went up onto the ballistas. So 4 people were firing them [there's 2 ballistas on each side]. When the whitemantles came the Smoke Phantoms were still standing [nothing reached the gates, of course i also healed some of them from above].

When the jades/mursaat came, we eased up on the ballistas [onle 2 people on each side] and got them at the gates. With the ballistas hitting a few mursaat elems, it meant they were coming in 1's or 2's [easy kills, but we had to run between the gates if 2 mobs came from both sides at the same times].

Then Dorian and his gang came, we aggroed them from the wall, so they never actually got into the fort.

Important Factors:


-NOT relying purely on Monk healing, at least 4 members could heal themselves or had secondary healing abilities [Well of blood from above when fighting is right at the gates works WONDERS]. As monk i could actually concentrate on things like Aegis and Heal Party [which do not require me to be in range of anyone].

-Everyone made sure all mobs entring a gate was aggroed and not allowed to move up the stairs.
-Do not underestimate ballistas [i did the mission alot of times where the team did the "stand in the middle" or "stand near the king" effect ignoring ballistas.

In the end only 1 boss came into the fort and a few jades, the rest were all killed by ballistas. We actually stood there wondering why are we waiting as Mursaat Elems were dripping in 1 by 1.

Team members DID die, there were hard moments, but rezzing fast and having multiple forms of healing made a diff.

That was my party when I (finally) completed it last night.
Nobody died even once.
Both Ws were tanks, I'm not sure what exactly the Me did, Monks did general healing/protection, the ranger poisoned and ignited lots, and the Necro was mainly support while keeping degen on everything and putrid spamming.


The Me and R manned ballistas, the rest of the group waited in center of map. Once a group approached a gate, the team would rush that way and just kill it (usually very quickly). Fertile Season seemed to help out pretty well, when placed in the center it usually reached all the way to the gates.

We would just bounce back and forth between the gates as mobs came in. We finished with each mob pretty quickly, so there wasn't much time when a gate was unattended to and enemies were entering. When this DID happen, one of the Ws and a Mo would leave andgo start on the other one while the rest finished up. Good leadership, a balanced group (like that one), and a decent strategy for holding the keep are the keys to success.

yea rangers with longbows really are useful casue they can attack from the wall as they approch. Often slows their approch actually, and then you can take out 60% of the marsaat before they threaten the fort inside. I even got the Confessor from over the wall and killed him well clear of the fort interior. half the jade bows will retreat upon attack from the wall. People without longbows use the catapults and also help with the approching mobs.

I have not had a group yet get the bonus though. I would like to see that. but that takes a lot of team work,and requires spliting the group to light all the beacons... on the wall within 30 secs of killing the Dagnar Stoneplate boss. This means you all have to SKIP the Cutscene too... BTW...

Also if you all have completed the mission and want to go back, there are some nice chests outsdie the fort. you can get through the closed door before killing Dagnar Stoneplate and go look around outside. but be careful who ever has the king following them has to stay behind to keep him safe. This also makes the waves easier to win, cause you have taken out the majority of the mobs before the invasion.

I must say I started to like this mission after all. After helping guildies on it for two straight days, and successful I might add, I'm starting to like this mission. Team compositions is not all that important actually, as long as you have ppl that are willing to listen and following orders. Oh yeah, we beat the missoin w/ three necros, zero ele primaries, and one monk robot, mhenlo. At one point I was the only one alive and was trying to rez ppl while fighting three giants and a monk boss. Good times. I think this mission is a good challenge for those of you that are bored and have nothing better to do.

I did it in the international district with 3 players (necro, ele, monk) and 5 henchies. We used the door bug and killed that bad guys first.

I'm almost positive thats the only way to get out there to get the 3 chests... Cause if you wait till they are open you never reach them and save the fort too...

the first time i beat the mission i wasn't infused ...

i died like 10 times but the group was good and we did it anyway