Mes/Nec, another take on Soul Barbs + energy steal?

Yukito Kunisaki

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2005

Chicago, IL

W/N

08 Jul 2005 at 05:46 - 1

Thanks to BlackAce and help from the others, I've recreated a classic soul barbs build. It's not original I'm sure but bear with me please ^_^ I need to know if it's hot...

stats:

fast cast: 10+1
domination: 10+2
Curses: 11

Anti-anything build... augmented by some energy stealing.

Wastrel's Worry
Shame
Guilt
Backfire
Lingering Curse {E}
Soul Barbs
Shadow of Fear
Enfeebling Blood

Keys to this build are straight forward with huge emphasis on Soul Barbs. The entire skill set [save one] are Hexes.

This build is counting on a caster's ability to notice problems on himself and maybe he/she will try to remove the problem via remove hex/what not. Idea:

Enfeebling Blood + Shadow of Fear any warrior mobs who are smart and follow a target call ^_^

Soul Barbs
Shame to interrupt the removal of Soul Barbs and gain energy to do...
Lingering Curse counts as both a Rend and Super Defile Flesh. deadly...
Backfire to force him to stop casting. [since any friendly enchantment will rip him in two as well and healing is chopped]
Guilt on an enemy offensive caster: mesmer / smite monk / necro / ele, steal more energy to do...
Wastrel's Worry rapid fire...

It'd be even deadlier if your team had a blanket hex. Like say, parasitic bond. Now that I look at what it does, it's got to be one of THE synergistic skills of this game with Soul Barbs. Five energy with fast recharge, and when the enemy dies, u gain a chunk of hp. VERY easy to cast on many enemies at once as well ^_^

I know that hex removal SHOULD be problematic because only Purge Signet does an all at once hex removal. Hopefully a friendly axe warrior or what not will interrupt it.

Now that there are 2 meager energy stealers in this build... I wonder, with enough foci and energy from a weapon, do u think this build could be pulled off devastatingly? or would it run out of steam after one try? hmm...

Aranador

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2005

08 Jul 2005 at 07:58 - 2

Consider working shatter delusions into this.

Drop a necro hex, keep the mezmer hexes.

When the baddie is a bit low on health - shatter the hexes, to deal a massive spike and do them in.

DarkAynjil

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

08 Jul 2005 at 13:51 - 3

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

Wastrel's Worry? There are better hexes for mesmers, you would be better off with another different domination hex, adding to what your opponent gets penalized for - Wastrel's Worry deals only a pittance of dmg, and that's all it does. Use something else there. WW is crapola.

Hex Removal comes in a variety of shapes and sizes for monks, Convert Hexes removes all hexes on a target. Even then, a monk could simply spam a few remove hexes at your target, coupled with a high divine favor, he will heal the dmg from Soul Barbs as well, turning it into an energy match. I would replace Enfeebling Blood with something a bit cheaper, but the weakness is useful. I don't think I would use Shadow of Fear at the same time, though.

rii

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2005

08 Jul 2005 at 16:04 - 4

ww has a recharge of 1 second, which means spamming it makes lots of soul barb babies.

arredondo

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

08 Jul 2005 at 16:11 - 5

Yep, one of my builds is made with this purpose in mind.

DarkAynjil

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

08 Jul 2005 at 19:59 - 6

Quote:

Originally Posted by rii

ww has a recharge of 1 second, which means spamming it makes lots of soul barb babies. So in essence, you want to use 2 skill slots to flare the enemy to death? This build has a strength, and that is that you are coupling fairly decent DPS from soul barbs and at the same time you are hexing them with useful hexes like enfeeble to shutdown a warrior, or what not. WW may have a 1 sec recharge, but if you're going to "gun" WW, you might as well be an E/* and spam flare.

rii

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2005

08 Jul 2005 at 22:09 - 7

People have armour to fire..... there is no armour to ww and soul barbs....

ICURADik

Banned

Join Date: May 2005

08 Jul 2005 at 23:13 - 8

And it helps counter Hex Breaker, and other forms of hex stopping.

Yukito Kunisaki

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2005

Chicago, IL

W/N

09 Jul 2005 at 13:52 - 9

DarkAynjil

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

09 Jul 2005 at 17:29 - 10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

This build has the capability to be spread between two casters. An offensive, and defensive caster.

Unless the teammate is very very quick, he won't be able to remove Soul Barbs in time. That and the enemy team must anticipate a HEAVY hex build. WW + Backfire. You do nothing and you get hurt [that and soulbarbs] You cast something for MAJOR pain...

You kinda forgot about that didn't ya? ^_^ No offense, but I think you've been playing PvE too much if you value that strategy so much... Don't get me wrong, setting up a "damned if they do, damned if they don't" type of situation isn't a bad idea - however, in practice I can tell you as an E/Me and sometimes an E/Mo, that when I'm in a PvP match and I have Backfire on me, I don't stop casting. I call it into TS, and go about by business. If you think creating that situation does any good in PvP, you're mistaken. You've also wasted a skill spot just to MAYBE inflict some pitiful amount of damage IF they decide to not cast through or around backfire. WW is eating a slot that could be used for something nicer, like say Diversion or whatnot. If you team this with a mirrored character, both of them with soulbarbs, and the other guy with say Illusion and Curses or maybe even blood magic - you open up more hexes on one person than a few monks can deal with. Even if the builds were the same, with 2 characters using this strat on one target, WW is especially unecessary because of the fact that the sheer NUMBER of hexes hitting them and activating Soulbarbs ought to kill them with a smidge of help from teammates. There is no need or use for Wastrel's in this build. Ignoring armor or not. In fact, I would venture to say that Wastrel's is probably one of the most useless skills in the game for PvP.

Kishin

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

The Twilight Vanguard [TTV]

09 Jul 2005 at 18:12 - 11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

Yukito Kunisaki

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2005

Chicago, IL

W/N

10 Jul 2005 at 01:19 - 12

Kishin

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

The Twilight Vanguard [TTV]

10 Jul 2005 at 01:49 - 13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

Convert Hexes isn't rare at all in Tombs or GvG. In 4v4 arena, sure, but who cares?

And you're calling me high and mighty? Check your own tone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

nless the teammate is very very quick, he won't be able to remove Soul Barbs in time. That and the enemy team must anticipate a HEAVY hex build. WW + Backfire. You do nothing and you get hurt [that and soulbarbs] You cast something for MAJOR pain...

You kinda forgot about that didn't ya? ^_^ That sounds pretty snotty to me. Your problem is you refuse to take criticism, I've seen it in just about every build you've posted. You stand stubbornly by it without admitting there are flaws.

DarkAynjil

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

10 Jul 2005 at 03:05 - 15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

Alright, instead of speaking like a high and mighty eliteist fool, can you please give the advice on that Godlike hex that's SOOO much better than Wastrel's Worry?

Obviously you're probably set in any pvp matchup to deal with heavy hex casters every single time right? So you bring Convert Hexes in your group each and every single time correct? The enemy gets blanket hexed, it's not impossible. And you're speaking as if I'm the only player on my field. There's more than one hex in my group for pvp and if I'm the only hexer, something's deadly wrong. We blast the enemy to hell with nothing but hex after hex. Life Siphon, etc... Outside of things like Convert Hexes and other very rare remove all hexes skills, what are you going to do to defend against that?

You're seriously telling me your teammate is ALWAYS going to bring a skill to remove Soul Barbs, Shame, Lingering Curse {E}, Backfire, and Wastrel's Worry? I'm all fine for criticism but your comments sound more like immature insults than something that's helpful...

Go on then, what should Wastrel's Worry be replaced with? What other skills forces the enemy to take dmg doing nothing or doing something? And don't say you're teammate is going to save you because I can just say my teammate can kill your teammate... We'll be back to square one.

Look here dude - YOU posted a thread about YOUR build and asked for OUR input, then you get bent out of shape when people offer their .02 on it. We're not "elitists" or any other such nonsense - we've just spent some time playing PvP, and felt we would offer some advice. My suggestion doesn't make sense to you? Don't follow it. Do THIS instead: Take your build into Team Arenas / Tombs and see how far you get. I grant you a LOT of teams (especially PUG's) are NOT going to be prepared to stop mass hexing or know what to do when backfired/WW'd, but that isn't the point, is it? The issue here is that several people here feel that WW is useless to your build for PvP, by which we mean the organized teams that actually think about who's going to do what, and how they will deal with things like BF and other hexes... You seem to disagree. If you're offended by our opinions, by all means - go ahead and take your build into a PvP match and see how it fares. When I play a protection E/Mo, I usually DO take Convert Hexes into the Tombs with me, as a matter of fact, smartguy. As for WW, I would take Diversion instead, but that's just me.

As for how I would counter it, I would simply work around or through your hexes. Hexes are NOT meant to kill. They are meant to make killing a target easier or to disrupt the enemy. You will need help from your team, like any other build. I have had my entire top screen FILLED with hexes, and killed the offending necro in PvP. Did the hexes hurt? Sure. Did they make me work my character differently? Of course. Was the strategy effective on me? You bet. Anything in the game can be worked through, so please get off the box, and stop telling us that your build is un-counterable. Saying or implying such is just illustrates an ignorance about this game.

Yukito Kunisaki

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2005

Chicago, IL

W/N

10 Jul 2005 at 14:25 - 16

omg... I just asked for what would be the better hex and nobody's telling me anything...

Ah well...

Myodato

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

WOR

Mo/

10 Jul 2005 at 14:37 - 17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

omg... I just asked for what would be the better hex and nobody's telling me anything...

Ah well...

Diversion.

If your victim tries to remove their own hexes, they're stuck without hex removal for ~ 1 minute. Very bad against hex spam.

Yukito Kunisaki

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2005

Chicago, IL

W/N

10 Jul 2005 at 14:44 - 18

Time to take my 2nd swing at this... Hope this helps some people who are searching for knowledge cause it seems others would just rather let them fend for themselves... After some fending...

10+2 Domination
10+1 Fast Casting
11 Curses

Diversion
Shame
Guilt
Backfire
Lingering Curse {E}
Enfeebling Blood
Shadow of Fear
Soul Barbs

And, for my own purposes as well as for helping others, here's a different take on a shutout Mesmer, non hex based...

Power Leak
Power Spike
Power Block {E}
Arcane Echo
Enfeebling Blood
Shadow of Fear
Desecrate Enchantments
Rend Enchantments

Damn, wish I could find a way to manage energy without going to Inspiration or using a Hex.

Less Hexy build with more interrupts and counters. I'd like insight on this one as well... Aside from shutting out an interruptor *Diversion/mana kill/etc.* and using things like Spell Breaker {E}, how else does one counter an interruptor? [besides killing him... that's everyone's counter...] Due to most Enchantments having a fast recycle time, and reading that the game's enchantment removal capabilities aren't that efficient, in case Rend couldn't stop said enchantments, which happens, Desecrate has been added. That and almost every other Curse is a Hex.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Time and time again, I've read on people who only counter suggested builds and don't offer advice on what that awesome skill is to make the build complete. Thanks for those last posts on Diversion, however, get this straight...

One, I know how to counter every build imaginable. All I got to do is do a search and read posts and skill listings. It's fine to mention a counter too but to say nothing is very elitist and what's more, it's not exactly good form to say a skill build sucks when someone is offering it... Which is pretty much what a chunk of you said.

Mentioning that I think my skill list is uncounterable is NOT what I said. You obviously misinterpreted me. Anything is counterable and I know this. So there's no point telling me what to counter it with because I know this and anyone else who plays the game knows this already.

I'm not on no stinking soap box... Thanks for the help... for what it's worth.

And I will admit that I did forget what the Mesmer is for, thank you very much... Just for that moment, I thought damage was important...

People kept telling me this over and over and over for all my other posts. For the one class that was never meant to do damage, I suppose I did make a grave mistake and for that I'm sorry...

Myodato

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

WOR

Mo/

10 Jul 2005 at 14:56 - 19

Yukito Kunisaki

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2005

Chicago, IL

W/N

10 Jul 2005 at 15:25 - 20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myodato

Can I also recommend Malaise, probably instead of Enfeebling Blood.

You probably won't spend much time worrying about warriors in PvP, but if you do, then reducing their energy regen to zero is not a bad thing. Halving a caster's recharge is not to be dismissed easily either. And really, -2 health regen is nothing with a good monk around. Which is why I won't add Malaise. My previous energy denial suggestion was pretty much bitch-slapped by forum runners with skills like Malaise and Wither {E}.

Yukito Kunisaki

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2005

Chicago, IL

W/N

11 Jul 2005 at 05:35 - 22

Going Inspiration instead of Domination?

hmm...

Thanks a bunch dude! ^_^

edit*

Well, if babysitting and then watching for that all important skill I need to stuff fails... I'm sitting on 20s. on recycle time. If I go hard energy denial as was suggested, and I disrupt warriors using the Enfeeble + Shadow combination, would that be all I need? No energy for a caster means wait time for him, and warriors dealing 22% maximum potential dmg is something to fear I'm sure...

That and the energy given by the focuses I find will help since they're inspiration based it would seem.

final stats: 10+2 inspiration, 10+1 fast casting, 11 curses

Energy Tap
Energy Drain {E}
Power Drain
Arcane Echo
Enfeebling Blood
Shadow of Fear
Desecrate Enchantments
Rend Enchantments

Hmm... Aside from obvious things like nailing me with conditions and heavy dmg... I suppose this could be the stuffer for a good fight. No energy for casters, which goes into stuffing melee/ranged non-magic types, and then when skills recycle, repeat the torture... And then that all beefy dude sitting on Vigorous Spirit, Protective Spirit, Aegis, Shield of Judgement and Shield of Regeneration [for some stupid reason, I DID see this in a random arena which didn't make any sense at all] gets CLOBBERED with either Rend or Desecrate.

I think Desecrate would make a fantastic finisher because I notice monks start using conditional enchantments toward a teammate's death like Protective Spirit and Reversal of Fortune. Though Protective Spirit prevents this thing from killing you correct? hmm... DOH!