Solution for 12v12 Game Length Problem

I read the other two posts about 12v12 and I didn't see any proposed solutions to this (different) problem, so I will say it here. Sometimes one team completely annihilates the other team and takes all 7 flags. The winning team has to basically wait until they accumulate 500 points, which takes a long time.

I propose that when the winning team has all 7 flags, the base defenders should no longer use the "Base Defense" skill, and the players should be able to enter the zone and kill an NPC that would be guarding the altar (which would also have the Base Defense skill anyways, preventing spawn camping and teleporting assassins). This NPC (possibly called Luxon or Kurzick commander) would be a different class than the other players, so it wouldn't be affected by EOE, and would have lots of health. Once this NPC dies, the attacking team should win and get 1000 faction for a 'decisive' victory. If for some reason the defending team captures a flag, all the base defenders and this NPC would regain their "Base Defense" skill and would nuke everyone within the base.

What does everyone think?

EoE is a problem anyhow, when I was playing there, someone put up EoE at lvl 11, wiping out nearly everyone. And to make things even worse, there are new spirits which also inflict quite a large ammount of damage on all players in the area. A spiritspammer could inbalance everything there. OK, he can be killed of course, but assuming everyone will bring rez, he'll be around for most of the time.

hmm, maybe people wouldnt quit as much knowing that if the outcome of the match was obvious, the match would end sooner.... the trouble is people dont like to waste time in a game whos fate is decided.

As much as I hate quitters, when its obvious at 300 to 15, there really isnt much of a reason to stay.

But alowing the final humiliation of having your spawns destroyed...no, I dont like this Idea at all... especially as some prefer to keep on fighting, regardless of the odds.. so it would be unfair to make that decision for everyone.

However, maybe a resign vote?

I see that you have a good idea, I will attach it to the appendix area.

The discussion regarding 12 vs 12 can be continued in here:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...d.php?t=142996

Well the reason behind this argument is that it would be a final BATTLE instead of people hiding behind their base defenders. It is very annoying for the attackers to have to wait for an extra five to ten minutes until the clock runs out, especially against a sort of BS skill like 'base defense'. Maybe if the losing commander shouts "To the death!" making the defending team get +10 armor, +10% attack speed, and +3 health regen until a flag is captured or they die would make it seem more like a battle. Either way, this prevents time from being wasted and keeps the intensity high even at the end game, as opposed to capping all seven flags and thinking "great, time to camp their base exits now".

Or forget the shout, you see what I am trying to accomplish here. It makes it a battle to the end, instead of a campfest.

I dont think you speak for all attackers here, so your argument is one out of personal frustration.

I love sit there waiting for the time to tick by outside their base... its like a glorious pride moment, you get to gloat, brag.. talk with your team, hurl abuse...

its a great laff... and a great time to relax and enjoy the spoils of victory.

No I dont really, all I see is that you are in some kind of hurry to be somewhere?..

A Final battle?..against trillions of bone minions?..against the losing team who have probably mostly left by then...nah, the match is won, its over.. time to take a break, have a kit-kat.

you call it a camp fest I call it a moment of glory.

If you were the defender, you would see it the other way.

I don't see a problem with the Alliance battle game length. 500 points is just about right, and - forgetting rage quitters - there are opportunities to come back from a 100+ point hole and win. While I'd still like to see larger teams have an opportunity to populate a single team in a single Alliance battle, I'm certain that the 12v12 will be one of the most popular features of Factions.

There's always the chance that the losing side can get their act together and make a comeback.

What would work better, in my opinion, is for the score to go up at a faster rate if capture points stop changing hands for a period of time. This will encourage the losing side get out of their bases.

oh thats right, because i've NEVER experienced what that would be like

The poster is saying that its frustrating for the winner, or the attacker to have to wait around.. the Defenders opinion isnt being debated here, Defenders just have to quit.. which is a completly different subject being debated on another thread.

First of all, even if u lost, there was a point in staying, if you lost, u get faction points, based on which side u were on, equal to how many point u got when you lost, so everyone is a winner, so i see no point in leaving at all, its just stupid, i mean if u leave like 5 matches u lose on, that could have been 1000 faction+ you could have gained, and more battle experience, which increases your skill in the game, making you non-noobish, there is nothing to fix, just need to inform people more, losing does not mean you gain nothing, this isnt normal PVP, this is not arenas, this is a war and someone has to lose, but you both will gain faction, so all u ragequitters can go slap yourself in the face for losing all that faction

One sentence, 22 commas, no period. Wow!

I say just make it that if you have ALL 7 flags for 1 minute, your score goes to 10 per tick.

I had a blast, even when my team got smashed. I ended up playing a trap spammer most of the time in there, and it was very effective. I played the usual UW trapper with EW, QZ and serpants quickness, with all the traps, I would lay down spirits and trap the crap out of an area until some unlucky sould ventured across, then dies almost instantly, another fun part was trapping under the bridges near the dragons nest, then watching a team either attack or retreat through them Also when our team was getting rocked and they started killing the defender, I would spam trapps behind him in there most of the time, and even though they saw me do it, sure nenough, as soon as that defender dropped, there would always be a few that would charge into it and die almost instantly. I know we got rocked, but it was sure funny to watch that warrior think he could survive through 15 traps he hit at once, especially when they would "counter" with IWAY or I would watch him cast mending before charging in.. LOL thanks for the laugh guys!

I like the large scores, gives you enough time to adjust tactics. And I like the challenge of attempting to escape my base, often while an Assassin I'd Death's Charge into the enemy campers and kill one of them, just to say "take that."

It didn't matter that we lost, as long as at least 10 people stayed. I also didn't worry about dying, which made me very effective as an Assassin at the end. Sure, I'd die, but only after taking out a crucial target, one far more valuable to the other team then I was to mine. That's a good feeling of accomplishment, knowing you took out the enemy degener/MM/spiker and then watch the rest of the enemy team fall apart because of it.

Have a long match allows for you to experiment and learn, and not nessessarily lose because of it.

Long matches are good for allowing come backs. A few times my team came back from being down 100 points early.

I am not against long matches. In fact, I love long matches. I think comebacks are great. I just hate matches where I have to sit and camp the other team's zone for a long time when winning is inevitable and there is no way they can come back. It is a very low-intensity time period that I forsee becoming very boring after everyone has played 12v12 for a long time.

My proposed solution would allow for comebacks, because instead of accelerated point gain (which would actually PREVENT comebacks) fighting a very hard target NPC in the spawn would allow a diversion that would let defenders escape and take a flag (thus causing the NPC at the spawn to get base defense again). This solution would only allow teams that are definitely going to win to just end the match already so they can get back to fighting a real battle, and would allow teams that still have a chance at winning a diversion so they can escape from base and take an attack node.

I wish people would read and understand my suggestion. This would not take away large scores or prevent comebacks. This just allows a game method to expediate matches that are already over. It turns the "capture the flags... and then sit and cane the base defender for 5 minutes" to a real battle that begins with high intensity and stays exciting right up until the end.

[edit]Sorry for posting again arguing my point, I just can't shake the feeling after reading over some of these responses that people are responding to my post after only reading the title... thank you to Snowman for at least discussing the topic of my thread. [/edit]

i think we should have the option to make the 12 ppl party ourselves. it will shorten the match since we will be playing with the ppl we know and a pre defined set of skills.
i just hated being stuck with all dumb players.

there is no god

haha i done that a couple times when i was the last few on my team, or id teleport and run past the campers and when there was like one chasing id turn round and "assassinate" him lol cracked me up no end didnt matter if i died afta that

the game length is fine any shorter and it would be ova too quick, the only reason it would be a benifit is if one team RQ's but if they dont there is always something to fight for and 12 v 12 its always possible to come back from with a little strategy.

You guys are missing the point. The problem isn't the length of the battles in itself, but the fact that when one faction is leading by 50+ points, members of the other faction start dropping out. Several times I was one of 2-3 defenders, camping behind the base defender for minutes. With three people left we didn't have a chance in hell of turning a battle against 10 enemies, and they couldn't get past the base defender. I've also been on the winning team, camping the last few stalwarts camping behind THEIR defender.

That's just BS.

When one side holds all 7 map points for more than, say, 2 minutes, the other side isn't going to turn that battle, and everyones time is just being wasted. So something needs to be done.

First of all I'd like to see leavers penalized with a 30 minute timer until they can join another battle. Definitely don't want to reward people for leaving. Ever.

Secondly, there should be a mechanism to end the match to avoid these silly campfests. Several good mechanisms have been suggested, from increasing points per tick to 'Victory or Death' type scenarios.

no...YOU are missing the point, we are NOT discussing the leavers problem here... wake up!...

we are talking about when a winning team has won early and has to hang around twiddling their thumbs!...

Which I feel is great and dont feel it should be changed, but the OP would like to see this time somehow reduced so he doesnt miss his date xD

Stop talking about leavers and quitters.

Snowman,

He actually is talking about that.

Hell, you even quoted him correctly. He's talking about what happens when one team has a fifty-point lead and people start leaving. You suddenly have a very one-sided battle that isn't going anywhere--so there should be play-mechanics that take this into account.