My guildmate and I got into a little argument about which elite was more useful. Basically:
With Heal as One, you don't have to spread out so much(no need for WS and Troll Ungent)
With Ferocious Strike, you have practically infinite energy, thanks to Expertise
Feel free to prove me wrong.
Heal As One vs Ferocious Strike
Align
Lady Lorwinia
Both are useful for different things.
Bunny thumpers use ferocious strike for the energy. And for more damage.
I actually wouldn't bother with heal as one. But it can be a good skill for other builds I guess.
I just have many other skills that I like that are elites.
Bunny thumpers use ferocious strike for the energy. And for more damage.
I actually wouldn't bother with heal as one. But it can be a good skill for other builds I guess.
I just have many other skills that I like that are elites.
Jenosavel
I think your argument for Heal As One is a rather weak one, since I don't think it has ever been a good idea for a Beastmaster to split off into WS for Troll Unguent. Of course, tons of people do it anyways and use it as a reason that Beastmastery sucks.
The way I see it, Beastmasters either go full Beast and Expertise only or they split into Beast, Expertise and Marks for a little extra umph from their bow attacks (benefitting from Tiger's Fury).
As a pet heal, Heal as One is so-so. It can't compare to the healing power of a spammed Comfort Animal in an emergency. For all other healing needs Predator's Pounce is usually plenty, especially since it frees up your Elite spot for Ferocious Strike which is such superb energy management.
What it does allow is for a beastmaster to finally have a decent self-heal (since Troll Unguent was never really an option in the first place). It gives you around the same health back as would Ether Feast (with appropriate attribute points behind it), but with a slightly longer recharge time.
The other self-heal now available to a Beastmaster will be Predatory Bond. How the two stack up will be interesting to see. Predatory Bond should be better for erasing small annoying damage over time, while Heal As One will be better in a pinch when you need some healing fast.
Which elite is better will most likely come down to whether or not you need a self-heal in your build (ie: whether or not you'll be able to avoid taking damage), and if Predatory Bond will be enough for your situation.
Personally, I prefer to play a Beastmaster that can use the pet to avoid taking damage (manipulating AI is interesting) and relies on a heavy offense as your only defense. For me, therefore, Heal As One probably won't see too much use. I'll definitely try it out, but I'm not expecting it to be a tough choice at all.
...now if it either removed conditions and/or hexes along with healing, it could actually compete with Ferocious Strike in its overall usefulness. ...we beastmasters desperately need an option to rid our pets of conditions/hexes.
The way I see it, Beastmasters either go full Beast and Expertise only or they split into Beast, Expertise and Marks for a little extra umph from their bow attacks (benefitting from Tiger's Fury).
As a pet heal, Heal as One is so-so. It can't compare to the healing power of a spammed Comfort Animal in an emergency. For all other healing needs Predator's Pounce is usually plenty, especially since it frees up your Elite spot for Ferocious Strike which is such superb energy management.
What it does allow is for a beastmaster to finally have a decent self-heal (since Troll Unguent was never really an option in the first place). It gives you around the same health back as would Ether Feast (with appropriate attribute points behind it), but with a slightly longer recharge time.
The other self-heal now available to a Beastmaster will be Predatory Bond. How the two stack up will be interesting to see. Predatory Bond should be better for erasing small annoying damage over time, while Heal As One will be better in a pinch when you need some healing fast.
Which elite is better will most likely come down to whether or not you need a self-heal in your build (ie: whether or not you'll be able to avoid taking damage), and if Predatory Bond will be enough for your situation.
Personally, I prefer to play a Beastmaster that can use the pet to avoid taking damage (manipulating AI is interesting) and relies on a heavy offense as your only defense. For me, therefore, Heal As One probably won't see too much use. I'll definitely try it out, but I'm not expecting it to be a tough choice at all.
...now if it either removed conditions and/or hexes along with healing, it could actually compete with Ferocious Strike in its overall usefulness. ...we beastmasters desperately need an option to rid our pets of conditions/hexes.
Align
If you don't get Troll, how're you going to get healed?
Jenosavel
Healing is over-rated.
Haggard
Being killed isnt 
jibikao
In another forum, I've shared my reactions towards the new skills and basically here is what I think:
The 3 Elites:
1. Ferocious Strike: This skill is still a 5/5 Stars Elite for beast masters because it gives us almost unlimited energy. It totally denys energy drain builds and it allows BM to spam some spells that cost too much for bow Rangers without Marksman Wager. It also does healthy +29 at lvl 16. You can't beat this! Ferocious Strike is even better in long battles.
2. Heal as One: I used this skill a lot over the weekend just to see how it does. I rate it 3/5 Stars. The idea is NICE. A.Net finally figures out that they need to find a way to BOND the Master and the Beast. It heals 151 Health at lvl 16. The healing is nice but it has requirements. 12s recharge doesn't make it too useful when you are under attack. The elite status means you can't use Ferocious Strike for energy fuel and you need your pet alive to use this skill. Well, guess what? I've tried just to bring Heal as One and leave Comfort Animal at home. All is well until some axe warriors decide to go after my pet. Heal as One is NOT going to help you. After your pet is dead, you are pretty much shutted down. So we are back to SQUARE ONE = we need comfort animal. So this means Beast Masters need to bring two utility skills for the pet. You are left with VERY FEW skill slots. Do you bring a defensive stance or do you bring some pet attack skills? Tight choice.
However, in PvE, I would rate Heal as One a 4/5 Stars. In PvE, you have more time to recharge skills and you are not always the focus (unlike in PvP when you are being called out). You have more time to heal yourself and your pet. I can see this skill being quite useful. And you can rely less on "human" Monks healing you and your pet.
I've also combo Heal as One with Predatory Bond. Not very impressed. I would rather save that skill slot for a defensive stance if I want defense. Predatory Bond is NOT good... which I'll get to later.
3. Enraged Lunge: Adds +16 (lvl 16) for each recharging BM skill and the max. +damage can't exceed 60. I've tried it several times. There are problems with this skill. First of all, you need BM skills that are recharging. Well, Comfort and Charm don't recharge so you are left with 5 skill slots (assuming you bring rez sig). A.Net has created quite a few pet skills that cost 5E and recharge at 20s. Sounds like they created those skills to compliment Enraged Lunge. I took out Pounce and Poisonous Bite to give myself more recharging time to use Enraged Lunge. The damage is decent but both Pounce/Poisonous bite need 20s to recharge so you are left with almost one pet attack skill per 5s. That's NOT good. I believe I can achieve the similar damage output with Ferocious + Brutual Strike (37 + 37) + Melandru's Assault (21 + 37 + 37). When I use Enraged Lunge, I find myself wanting to use skills so much just to increase my recharging time. My energy got drained so fast. And I have almost no self heal (unlike Heal as One). I rate this skill 2/5 stars. It will be nice if they change it to "Enraged Lunge adds +15 for each Pet Attack skill equipped and the damage output can't exceed 45". The point is Enraged Lunge needs to meet a "condition" in order to deal good damage but this damage isn't even better than Brutual Strike which adds 37 + 37 when the health is below 50% (and not an elite!) and Melandru's Assault.
I guess Enraged Lunge may be a good choice for utility Beast Masters who use Viper's Nest and spirits. Those skills have long recharge time.
----------------------
Predatory Bond stacks with Live Vicarously. I've tried it and while it does heal nicely, your damage output is quite bad and you need Ferocious for energy fuels. The healing still can't save you if the warriors decide to go after you. You need your pet to attack in order to get healed. I haven't tested if it has to be a "successful" hit but without Call of Haste, your pet is not going to attack fast enough to heal enough. Another thing is if your pet is chasing a "kiting" target, good luck leeching his/her health! I guess the skill can be more useful in PvE where monsters are less intelligent! It will be nice if Predatory Bond heals BOTH the Master and the Pet.
The 3 Elites:
1. Ferocious Strike: This skill is still a 5/5 Stars Elite for beast masters because it gives us almost unlimited energy. It totally denys energy drain builds and it allows BM to spam some spells that cost too much for bow Rangers without Marksman Wager. It also does healthy +29 at lvl 16. You can't beat this! Ferocious Strike is even better in long battles.
2. Heal as One: I used this skill a lot over the weekend just to see how it does. I rate it 3/5 Stars. The idea is NICE. A.Net finally figures out that they need to find a way to BOND the Master and the Beast. It heals 151 Health at lvl 16. The healing is nice but it has requirements. 12s recharge doesn't make it too useful when you are under attack. The elite status means you can't use Ferocious Strike for energy fuel and you need your pet alive to use this skill. Well, guess what? I've tried just to bring Heal as One and leave Comfort Animal at home. All is well until some axe warriors decide to go after my pet. Heal as One is NOT going to help you. After your pet is dead, you are pretty much shutted down. So we are back to SQUARE ONE = we need comfort animal. So this means Beast Masters need to bring two utility skills for the pet. You are left with VERY FEW skill slots. Do you bring a defensive stance or do you bring some pet attack skills? Tight choice.
However, in PvE, I would rate Heal as One a 4/5 Stars. In PvE, you have more time to recharge skills and you are not always the focus (unlike in PvP when you are being called out). You have more time to heal yourself and your pet. I can see this skill being quite useful. And you can rely less on "human" Monks healing you and your pet.
I've also combo Heal as One with Predatory Bond. Not very impressed. I would rather save that skill slot for a defensive stance if I want defense. Predatory Bond is NOT good... which I'll get to later.
3. Enraged Lunge: Adds +16 (lvl 16) for each recharging BM skill and the max. +damage can't exceed 60. I've tried it several times. There are problems with this skill. First of all, you need BM skills that are recharging. Well, Comfort and Charm don't recharge so you are left with 5 skill slots (assuming you bring rez sig). A.Net has created quite a few pet skills that cost 5E and recharge at 20s. Sounds like they created those skills to compliment Enraged Lunge. I took out Pounce and Poisonous Bite to give myself more recharging time to use Enraged Lunge. The damage is decent but both Pounce/Poisonous bite need 20s to recharge so you are left with almost one pet attack skill per 5s. That's NOT good. I believe I can achieve the similar damage output with Ferocious + Brutual Strike (37 + 37) + Melandru's Assault (21 + 37 + 37). When I use Enraged Lunge, I find myself wanting to use skills so much just to increase my recharging time. My energy got drained so fast. And I have almost no self heal (unlike Heal as One). I rate this skill 2/5 stars. It will be nice if they change it to "Enraged Lunge adds +15 for each Pet Attack skill equipped and the damage output can't exceed 45". The point is Enraged Lunge needs to meet a "condition" in order to deal good damage but this damage isn't even better than Brutual Strike which adds 37 + 37 when the health is below 50% (and not an elite!) and Melandru's Assault.
I guess Enraged Lunge may be a good choice for utility Beast Masters who use Viper's Nest and spirits. Those skills have long recharge time.
----------------------
Predatory Bond stacks with Live Vicarously. I've tried it and while it does heal nicely, your damage output is quite bad and you need Ferocious for energy fuels. The healing still can't save you if the warriors decide to go after you. You need your pet to attack in order to get healed. I haven't tested if it has to be a "successful" hit but without Call of Haste, your pet is not going to attack fast enough to heal enough. Another thing is if your pet is chasing a "kiting" target, good luck leeching his/her health! I guess the skill can be more useful in PvE where monsters are less intelligent! It will be nice if Predatory Bond heals BOTH the Master and the Pet.
Jenosavel
Ever heard the phrase "the best defense is a good offense"?
Not even a warrior can last long under the assault from an aggressively offensive pet after the pet skill buffs. Bestial Pounce and/or Melandru's Assault make incredibly short work out of anything. With a little attention to positioning you don't need any self-healing, especially in a team situation where you will undoubtedly have a teammate dedicated to healing the party.
Edit: This was directed at Haggard. Jibikao managed to slip his post in the middle.
Not even a warrior can last long under the assault from an aggressively offensive pet after the pet skill buffs. Bestial Pounce and/or Melandru's Assault make incredibly short work out of anything. With a little attention to positioning you don't need any self-healing, especially in a team situation where you will undoubtedly have a teammate dedicated to healing the party.
Edit: This was directed at Haggard. Jibikao managed to slip his post in the middle.
jibikao
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenosavel
Ever heard the phrase "the best defense is a good offense"?
Not even a warrior can last long under the assault from an aggressively offensive pet after the pet skill buffs. Bestial Pounce and/or Melandru's Assault make incredibly short work out of anything. With a little attention to positioning you don't need any self-healing, especially in a team situation where you will undoubtedly have a teammate dedicated to healing the party.
Edit: This was directed at Haggard. Jibikao managed to slip his post in the middle.
LOL... I must have edited my post 4 times!!! I kept forgetting to mention the stuff I tested.
You are right, Heal as One seems even less important in Team Organized Battles where you have dedicated healers.
Now, if Heal as One can "cure" one of pet's condition, then I'll definitely rate it higher. I don't know how many times an Ele keeps my pet Blinded for the whole match. Oh god, I hate that!!!
Not even a warrior can last long under the assault from an aggressively offensive pet after the pet skill buffs. Bestial Pounce and/or Melandru's Assault make incredibly short work out of anything. With a little attention to positioning you don't need any self-healing, especially in a team situation where you will undoubtedly have a teammate dedicated to healing the party.
Edit: This was directed at Haggard. Jibikao managed to slip his post in the middle.
LOL... I must have edited my post 4 times!!! I kept forgetting to mention the stuff I tested. You are right, Heal as One seems even less important in Team Organized Battles where you have dedicated healers.
Now, if Heal as One can "cure" one of pet's condition, then I'll definitely rate it higher. I don't know how many times an Ele keeps my pet Blinded for the whole match. Oh god, I hate that!!!
SnipiousMax
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenosavel
What it does allow is for a beastmaster to finally have a decent self-heal (since Troll Unguent was never really an option in the first place).
Personally, I prefer to play a Beastmaster that can use the pet to avoid taking damage (manipulating AI is interesting) and relies on a heavy offense as your only defense. For me, therefore, Heal As One probably won't see too much use. I'll definitely try it out, but I'm not expecting it to be a tough choice at all.
...now if it either removed conditions and/or hexes along with healing, it could actually compete with Ferocious Strike in its overall usefulness. ...we beastmasters desperately need an option to rid our pets of conditions/hexes.
/agree
Condition removal is another issue I have with beast mastery lately.
frojack
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenosavel
Ever heard the phrase "the best defense is a good offense"?
Not even a warrior can last long under the assault from an aggressively offensive pet after the pet skill buffs. Bestial Pounce and/or Melandru's Assault make incredibly short work out of anything. With a little attention to positioning you don't need any self-healing, especially in a team situation where you will undoubtedly have a teammate dedicated to healing the party.
Edit: This was directed at Haggard. Jibikao managed to slip his post in the middle.
Agree/
Beasts are incredibly powerfull when used properly. Example. Take Brutal Strike. A more or less free (with high expertise) Final Thrust, spammable every 5 seconds?
I just find it monsterous when I'm hitting an opponent with Penetration Attack (perfect vamp. mod) + Kindle Arrow + Brutal Strike and dish out 100+ dmg in total to a fully armoured warrior. Nasty...
Not even a warrior can last long under the assault from an aggressively offensive pet after the pet skill buffs. Bestial Pounce and/or Melandru's Assault make incredibly short work out of anything. With a little attention to positioning you don't need any self-healing, especially in a team situation where you will undoubtedly have a teammate dedicated to healing the party.
Edit: This was directed at Haggard. Jibikao managed to slip his post in the middle.
Agree/Beasts are incredibly powerfull when used properly. Example. Take Brutal Strike. A more or less free (with high expertise) Final Thrust, spammable every 5 seconds?
I just find it monsterous when I'm hitting an opponent with Penetration Attack (perfect vamp. mod) + Kindle Arrow + Brutal Strike and dish out 100+ dmg in total to a fully armoured warrior. Nasty...
J1000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenosavel
Ever heard the phrase "the best defense is a good offense"?
Not even a warrior can last long under the assault from an aggressively offensive pet after the pet skill buffs. Bestial Pounce and/or Melandru's Assault make incredibly short work out of anything. With a little attention to positioning you don't need any self-healing, especially in a team situation where you will undoubtedly have a teammate dedicated to healing the party.
Edit: This was directed at Haggard. Jibikao managed to slip his post in the middle.
I'm moonlighting here with Jibikao. For some serious BM domination, try R/E with MA, BS, FS, and Gale. BM 14, Exp 12, Air 9 (for the staff), Wilderness 5.
And on the subject of HaO, I agree it's not very useful. I'd say that means it flat-out sucks, since it also uses up an elite slot. The real kicker to me is that you have to wait till either one of you is below 75% before healing! Is this true?? If so, it only seems useful for people who let their pet die and keep fighting.
Not even a warrior can last long under the assault from an aggressively offensive pet after the pet skill buffs. Bestial Pounce and/or Melandru's Assault make incredibly short work out of anything. With a little attention to positioning you don't need any self-healing, especially in a team situation where you will undoubtedly have a teammate dedicated to healing the party.
Edit: This was directed at Haggard. Jibikao managed to slip his post in the middle.
I'm moonlighting here with Jibikao. For some serious BM domination, try R/E with MA, BS, FS, and Gale. BM 14, Exp 12, Air 9 (for the staff), Wilderness 5.And on the subject of HaO, I agree it's not very useful. I'd say that means it flat-out sucks, since it also uses up an elite slot. The real kicker to me is that you have to wait till either one of you is below 75% before healing! Is this true?? If so, it only seems useful for people who let their pet die and keep fighting.
jibikao
Quote:
Originally Posted by J1000
I'm moonlighting here with Jibikao. For some serious BM domination, try R/E with MA, BS, FS, and Gale. BM 14, Exp 12, Air 9 (for the staff), Wilderness 5.
And on the subject of HaO, I agree it's not very useful. I'd say that means it flat-out sucks, since it also uses up an elite slot. The real kicker to me is that you have to wait till either one of you is below 75% before healing! Is this true?? If so, it only seems useful for people who let their pet die and keep fighting. What does "moonlighting" with me mean? Sorry, English isn't my first language... it's always good to learn something new everyday!
In regard to Heal as One, it's not a "bad" skill per say. This skill is not as bad as "Skull Crack". It has its use but it still doesn't solve the "core" problem. We need to bring Comfort Animal because Heal as One's healing is not going to justify the lack of "pet ressurection".
Heal as One should be at least useful in PvE and in random PvP.
And on the subject of HaO, I agree it's not very useful. I'd say that means it flat-out sucks, since it also uses up an elite slot. The real kicker to me is that you have to wait till either one of you is below 75% before healing! Is this true?? If so, it only seems useful for people who let their pet die and keep fighting. What does "moonlighting" with me mean? Sorry, English isn't my first language... it's always good to learn something new everyday!
In regard to Heal as One, it's not a "bad" skill per say. This skill is not as bad as "Skull Crack". It has its use but it still doesn't solve the "core" problem. We need to bring Comfort Animal because Heal as One's healing is not going to justify the lack of "pet ressurection".
Heal as One should be at least useful in PvE and in random PvP.
jibikao
Quote:
Originally Posted by frojack
Agree/
Beasts are incredibly powerfull when used properly. Example. Take Brutal Strike. A more or less free (with high expertise) Final Thrust, spammable every 5 seconds?
I just find it monsterous when I'm hitting an opponent with Penetration Attack (perfect vamp. mod) + Kindle Arrow + Brutal Strike and dish out 100+ dmg in total to a fully armoured warrior. Nasty... I've been running Melandru's Assault + Vamp Touch. Man, the amount of damage I can do is beyond crazy. Ele is my most favorite target because 99% of them have enchantments on.
I target an Ele, click MA and click Vamp Touch.... almost +150 damage! Then by the time my pet finishes the first MA, you can use MA again. BANG... then one more Vamp Touch = NEAR DEATH or running Ele.
MA's average damage on caster is easily 37 + 85-90. Tell me one melee skill that gives you well over 100 damage per 5s!!!! Too bad there is a condition to meet. hehe
MA is one of my favorite skills now. It allows me to do huge damage on W/Mo!!! lol
Brutual Strike is great too but I prefer having at least one interruption, disrupting lunge.
Beasts are incredibly powerfull when used properly. Example. Take Brutal Strike. A more or less free (with high expertise) Final Thrust, spammable every 5 seconds?
I just find it monsterous when I'm hitting an opponent with Penetration Attack (perfect vamp. mod) + Kindle Arrow + Brutal Strike and dish out 100+ dmg in total to a fully armoured warrior. Nasty... I've been running Melandru's Assault + Vamp Touch. Man, the amount of damage I can do is beyond crazy. Ele is my most favorite target because 99% of them have enchantments on.
I target an Ele, click MA and click Vamp Touch.... almost +150 damage! Then by the time my pet finishes the first MA, you can use MA again. BANG... then one more Vamp Touch = NEAR DEATH or running Ele.
MA's average damage on caster is easily 37 + 85-90. Tell me one melee skill that gives you well over 100 damage per 5s!!!! Too bad there is a condition to meet. hehe
MA is one of my favorite skills now. It allows me to do huge damage on W/Mo!!! lol
Brutual Strike is great too but I prefer having at least one interruption, disrupting lunge.
J1000
Quote:
Originally Posted by jibikao
What does "moonlighting" with me mean? Sorry, English isn't my first language... it's always good to learn something new everyday!
Moonlighting generally refers to a case where you are working a second job, but instead of jobs, we are working a second forum
frojack
Quote:
Originally Posted by jibikao
I've been running Melandru's Assault + Vamp Touch. Man, the amount of damage I can do is beyond crazy. Ele is my most favorite target because 99% of them have enchantments on.
I target an Ele, click MA and click Vamp Touch.... almost +150 damage! Then by the time my pet finishes the first MA, you can use MA again. BANG... then one more Vamp Touch = NEAR DEATH or running Ele.
MA's average damage on caster is easily 37 + 85-90. Tell me one melee skill that gives you well over 100 damage per 5s!!!! Too bad there is a condition to meet. hehe
MA is one of my favorite skills now. It allows me to do huge damage on W/Mo!!! lol
Brutual Strike is great too but I prefer having at least one interruption, disrupting lunge. Very nice. I'm definately gonna' have to try that one. Though I don't like the idea of having to touch your foe, since warriors don't take too kindly to being touched, lol.
I have used Vampiric gaze though. Works wonders when you can't get line-of-sight. Melandru's Assault sounds like fun though
. Thanks for the suggestion.
I target an Ele, click MA and click Vamp Touch.... almost +150 damage! Then by the time my pet finishes the first MA, you can use MA again. BANG... then one more Vamp Touch = NEAR DEATH or running Ele.
MA's average damage on caster is easily 37 + 85-90. Tell me one melee skill that gives you well over 100 damage per 5s!!!! Too bad there is a condition to meet. hehe
MA is one of my favorite skills now. It allows me to do huge damage on W/Mo!!! lol
Brutual Strike is great too but I prefer having at least one interruption, disrupting lunge. Very nice. I'm definately gonna' have to try that one. Though I don't like the idea of having to touch your foe, since warriors don't take too kindly to being touched, lol.
I have used Vampiric gaze though. Works wonders when you can't get line-of-sight. Melandru's Assault sounds like fun though
. Thanks for the suggestion.
jibikao
Quote:
Originally Posted by J1000
Moonlighting generally refers to a case where you are working a second job, but instead of jobs, we are working a second forum
I see. I am at work.. what can I do?
I see. I am at work.. what can I do?
jibikao
Quote:
Originally Posted by frojack
Very nice. I'm definately gonna' have to try that one. Though I don't like the idea of having to touch your foe, since warriors don't take too kindly to being touched, lol.
I have used Vampiric gaze though. Works wonders when you can't get line-of-sight. Melandru's Assault sounds like fun though. Thanks for the suggestion.
Well, yes, warriors don't like to get touched and that's why I always bring Disrupting Lunge with me to interrupt their Healing Sig. One interruption will save you so much time/energy to kill them. But Warrior is usually not my first target.
My first target is always Ele, then depends on the situation... there are quite a few 55hp monk in random now. In fact, last night there were two 55hp monk in one random game, and I just touch them TWICE. My team was like "wow, how did they die so fast?" I said "I touched them..." lol
Even if I don't touch them, one Melandru's Assault with lvl 16 BM (or 15BM) does over 55HP anyway. I've killed 55hp with one MA if that monk isn't careful with the pet. But if Protective spirit is on, you can't kill the monk with one MA. Just touch him.
Of course this build has downside. Energy cost is much higher and you have no defensive stance. Trappers are my most hated build because I can't afford to get crippled. And then there is Distortion mesmer/necro who are extremely annoying and there is Spiteful S Necro!
I have used Vampiric gaze though. Works wonders when you can't get line-of-sight. Melandru's Assault sounds like fun though
. Thanks for the suggestion.
Well, yes, warriors don't like to get touched and that's why I always bring Disrupting Lunge with me to interrupt their Healing Sig. One interruption will save you so much time/energy to kill them. But Warrior is usually not my first target. My first target is always Ele, then depends on the situation... there are quite a few 55hp monk in random now. In fact, last night there were two 55hp monk in one random game, and I just touch them TWICE. My team was like "wow, how did they die so fast?" I said "I touched them..." lol
Even if I don't touch them, one Melandru's Assault with lvl 16 BM (or 15BM) does over 55HP anyway. I've killed 55hp with one MA if that monk isn't careful with the pet. But if Protective spirit is on, you can't kill the monk with one MA. Just touch him.
Of course this build has downside. Energy cost is much higher and you have no defensive stance. Trappers are my most hated build because I can't afford to get crippled. And then there is Distortion mesmer/necro who are extremely annoying and there is Spiteful S Necro!
Linkusmax
I find the best types of Pet Rangers are Melee or close range based rather then marksmanship.
In my 2 GvG builds one has both a Hammer and Sword R/W Beastmaster and the other has that plus a Touch Ranger. When you combine that with E/R Fire Nukers ala Rift you have some massive preassure potential.
Ferocious Strike is still the best elite, HAO only really has any use in PvE and that attack elite just plain sucks because the best pet skills have a short recharge. (shorter now after the update)
In my 2 GvG builds one has both a Hammer and Sword R/W Beastmaster and the other has that plus a Touch Ranger. When you combine that with E/R Fire Nukers ala Rift you have some massive preassure potential.
Ferocious Strike is still the best elite, HAO only really has any use in PvE and that attack elite just plain sucks because the best pet skills have a short recharge. (shorter now after the update)
jibikao
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linkusmax
I find the best types of Pet Rangers are Melee or close range based rather then marksmanship.
In my 2 GvG builds one has both a Hammer and Sword R/W Beastmaster and the other has that plus a Touch Ranger. When you combine that with E/R Fire Nukers ala Rift you have some massive preassure potential.
Ferocious Strike is still the best elite, HAO only really has any use in PvE and that attack elite just plain sucks because the best pet skills have a short recharge. (shorter now after the update) Yeah, exactly. I've tried Enraged Lunge and I just can't picture how this elite can justify the damage you get from Brutual strike and Melandru's Assault. Sure, they cost more energy but that's what Ferocious Strike is there for! I mean even Predator's Pounce has some great use in PvP with low energy and recharge.
Anyone else tried Enraged Lunge? What's your reaction to this new elite?
In my 2 GvG builds one has both a Hammer and Sword R/W Beastmaster and the other has that plus a Touch Ranger. When you combine that with E/R Fire Nukers ala Rift you have some massive preassure potential.
Ferocious Strike is still the best elite, HAO only really has any use in PvE and that attack elite just plain sucks because the best pet skills have a short recharge. (shorter now after the update) Yeah, exactly. I've tried Enraged Lunge and I just can't picture how this elite can justify the damage you get from Brutual strike and Melandru's Assault. Sure, they cost more energy but that's what Ferocious Strike is there for! I mean even Predator's Pounce has some great use in PvP with low energy and recharge.
Anyone else tried Enraged Lunge? What's your reaction to this new elite?
Eet GnomeSmasher
Until they move pet rezzing to Charm Animal or something Heal As One is going to be sort of redundant because you're always going to need Comfort Animal.
As others have pointed out Heal As One is not going to be a replacement for Comfort Animal and there WILL be a point where your pet dies and you'll need to rez it. Having two pet heals is redundant and a huge waste, even though one of those heals also heals you.
They really need to shift some things around so that Beast Mastery isnt so inefficient in terms of skill slots and redundancy.
As others have pointed out Heal As One is not going to be a replacement for Comfort Animal and there WILL be a point where your pet dies and you'll need to rez it. Having two pet heals is redundant and a huge waste, even though one of those heals also heals you.
They really need to shift some things around so that Beast Mastery isnt so inefficient in terms of skill slots and redundancy.
J1000
Quote:
Originally Posted by jibikao
So to get the most out of Enraged Lunge you need something crazy like this:
Pet Attack 1 (Melandru's Assault let's say)
Enraged Lunge (elite)
Call of Haste
Call of Protection
Predatory Bond
Comfort Animal
Charm Animal
Res Signet
So you see, the skill bar is 100% pet skills (outside of res)! Your pet is unnecessarily tanked out to the max in this scenario. Sure you could drop Comfort Animal in favor of Troll, but just because your pet is tanked doesn't make him any stronger against health degen. Having Predatory Bond up is the equivalent of having about +7 health regeneration sometimes. I say sometimes because, like Warriors, pets spend a lot of time running instead of attacking. And the stupid skill only lasts about 20 seconds max! That makes it worse than Mending.
I call sucky skill here. Brutal Strike and Melandru's Assault are both better than Enraged Lunge. Note: If the skill itself qualifies as "recharging" right as you use it, that would save you one skill slot. That would be slightly better, but I doubt it works that way. What might actually make this skill useful is if Heal as One were not elite. That would count as a recharging pet skill and would give you at least some hope of healing yourself.
J1000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher
They really need to shift some things around so that Beast Mastery isnt so inefficient in terms of skill slots and redundancy.
Here, here. They really botched up the new pet skills for the most part. Poisonous Bite is the only truly useful one. Run as One is a nice addition, but it's nothing more than an alternative/companion to the other ranger running skills. Viper's Nest is okay, but it lacks the utility of the other traps (no snaring, no blindness, mediocre initial damage).
You would think Arena.net would be looking at their statistics to realize stuff like the fact that NO ONE EVER uses skills like Bestial Pounce. Why did they pour all the power into MA/BS then leave the other skills to rot????
You would think Arena.net would be looking at their statistics to realize stuff like the fact that NO ONE EVER uses skills like Bestial Pounce. Why did they pour all the power into MA/BS then leave the other skills to rot????
jibikao
Glad there's some healthy posts here.
After thinking about it, I post my thoughts on another forum and I am going to copy and paste (lazy!):
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In regard to Enraged Lunge:
My initial reaction to Enraged Lunge is 2/5 stars. It was only during one weekend and I only had so much time to test the new skills I bought. You are right, Enraged Lunge does very nice damage if you have more than 3 BM skills recharging but a conventional Ferocious + Brutual Strike + Melandru's Assault/Predator's Pounce/Feral Lunge can achieve similar damage AND you don't run out of energy that fast. You can try to combo Enraged with 10E pet attack skill but I gaurantee you that you will run out of gas soon. I know I did because I always tried to keep the skills recharging just to satisfy Enraged.
However, if you use the trap and other BM skills, I can see how Enraged can do great damage and I believe I did state that in my reasoning. It's a 2/5 star because I didn't believe damage was Beast Master's problem to begin with. Heal as One, on paper, offers a lot more diversity.
This just brought up a question that I thought about it this morning, does Skill Disable count as "recharging"?? This may work SUPER WELL with Tiger's Furry. A simple Tiger's Furry already disable 2 BM skills (Comfort and Charm) and then you add Call of Haste or Predator Bond. That's 3. Have you tested this? If Skill Disable does trigger Enraged Lunge, then I can see how this skill can do huge damage with a berserker build.
PS: I don't think Enraged Lunge itself adds the damage. I've tried it on the dummy in the training area and I did not notice any extra damage from Enraged alone. I am 80% sure about this.
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In regard to some new skills and how they don't seem as bad now:
All the new pet skills require a lot of conditions to use effectively. I've been thinking about the new ones like Poisonous Bite and Pounce and even Bestial Mauling.
Poisonous Bite, at first, I think this skill fits BADLY with pure beast master build, but with just 5E cost, if a warrior uses it to combo with (who can't seem to cause Poison damage) simple Sever Artery, that's -7 degen right there without much work! I can see that the new pet skills can work quite well with "secondary" class.
Bestial Mauling, when you hit a knocked down foe, the foe is Dazed. This is terribly hard to time with the pet. In fact, I don't think the attack speed (even with call of haste) of the pet can achieve Pounce + Bestial Mauling or Bestial Pounce + Bestial Mauling. However, what if an Ele combos it with a simple Gale? That's one EASY Dazed right there with only 5E COST! Even a Hammer Warrior can do this. The combo possbilities just rise up big time with the new pet skills. I think A.Net is trying to break the conventional thinking that "Beast Mastery is all or nothing!" No, it's no longer like that. I can totally see how other professions make use of the new skills with great efficiency.
After thinking about it, I post my thoughts on another forum and I am going to copy and paste (lazy!):
-----------
In regard to Enraged Lunge:
My initial reaction to Enraged Lunge is 2/5 stars. It was only during one weekend and I only had so much time to test the new skills I bought. You are right, Enraged Lunge does very nice damage if you have more than 3 BM skills recharging but a conventional Ferocious + Brutual Strike + Melandru's Assault/Predator's Pounce/Feral Lunge can achieve similar damage AND you don't run out of energy that fast. You can try to combo Enraged with 10E pet attack skill but I gaurantee you that you will run out of gas soon. I know I did because I always tried to keep the skills recharging just to satisfy Enraged.
However, if you use the trap and other BM skills, I can see how Enraged can do great damage and I believe I did state that in my reasoning. It's a 2/5 star because I didn't believe damage was Beast Master's problem to begin with. Heal as One, on paper, offers a lot more diversity.
This just brought up a question that I thought about it this morning, does Skill Disable count as "recharging"?? This may work SUPER WELL with Tiger's Furry. A simple Tiger's Furry already disable 2 BM skills (Comfort and Charm) and then you add Call of Haste or Predator Bond. That's 3. Have you tested this? If Skill Disable does trigger Enraged Lunge, then I can see how this skill can do huge damage with a berserker build.
PS: I don't think Enraged Lunge itself adds the damage. I've tried it on the dummy in the training area and I did not notice any extra damage from Enraged alone. I am 80% sure about this.
-------------------
In regard to some new skills and how they don't seem as bad now:
All the new pet skills require a lot of conditions to use effectively. I've been thinking about the new ones like Poisonous Bite and Pounce and even Bestial Mauling.
Poisonous Bite, at first, I think this skill fits BADLY with pure beast master build, but with just 5E cost, if a warrior uses it to combo with (who can't seem to cause Poison damage) simple Sever Artery, that's -7 degen right there without much work! I can see that the new pet skills can work quite well with "secondary" class.
Bestial Mauling, when you hit a knocked down foe, the foe is Dazed. This is terribly hard to time with the pet. In fact, I don't think the attack speed (even with call of haste) of the pet can achieve Pounce + Bestial Mauling or Bestial Pounce + Bestial Mauling. However, what if an Ele combos it with a simple Gale? That's one EASY Dazed right there with only 5E COST! Even a Hammer Warrior can do this. The combo possbilities just rise up big time with the new pet skills. I think A.Net is trying to break the conventional thinking that "Beast Mastery is all or nothing!" No, it's no longer like that. I can totally see how other professions make use of the new skills with great efficiency.
J1000
[QUOTE=jibikao]This just brought up a question that I thought about it this morning, does Skill Disable count as "recharging"?? This may work SUPER WELL with Tiger's Furry. A simple Tiger's Furry already disable 2 BM skills (Comfort and Charm) and then you add Call of Haste or Predator Bond. That's 3. Have you tested this? If Skill Disable does trigger Enraged Lunge, then I can see how this skill can do huge damage with a berserker build.
That's a very good thought, not just for Warriors but for TF bow users as well. I'll definitely be trying it.
Quote:
That's a very good thought, not just for Warriors but for TF bow users as well. I'll definitely be trying it.
Quote:
And Gale is expensive too. The other problem is finding a cover condition for Daze. You might as well not even bother using it on a monk, unless you already have Nature's Renewal up too. Monks can rid themselves of conditions in the blink of an eye.
jibikao
[QUOTE=J1000]
Quote:
Originally Posted by jibikao
This just brought up a question that I thought about it this morning, does Skill Disable count as "recharging"?? This may work SUPER WELL with Tiger's Furry. A simple Tiger's Furry already disable 2 BM skills (Comfort and Charm) and then you add Call of Haste or Predator Bond. That's 3. Have you tested this? If Skill Disable does trigger Enraged Lunge, then I can see how this skill can do huge damage with a berserker build.
That's a very good thought, not just for Warriors but for TF bow users as well. I'll definitely be trying it.
Another good thought. I can see how a bow/staff R/E could time their Gale to land right before Bestial Mauling. I wouldn't call it easy though And Gale is expensive too. The other problem is finding a cover condition for Daze. You might as well not even bother using it on a monk, unless you already have Nature's Renewal up too. Monks can rid themselves of conditions in the blink of an eye.
I've always thought all the skills that cause Daze either cost way too much or are too hard to achieve (Skull Crack). Now we have more and more skills that cause Daze. Bestial Mauling costs the LEAST of all I think and it's not elite. It's hard to time it with the pet and I guess that's the challenge of it. Gale's 3s or Hammer's 3s knockdown will make it much easier.
Daze in 8v8 may be less effective since condition is so easily cured but in random or 4v4, I can see it very effective. We need more testings of course.
That's a very good thought, not just for Warriors but for TF bow users as well. I'll definitely be trying it.
Another good thought. I can see how a bow/staff R/E could time their Gale to land right before Bestial Mauling. I wouldn't call it easy though
And Gale is expensive too. The other problem is finding a cover condition for Daze. You might as well not even bother using it on a monk, unless you already have Nature's Renewal up too. Monks can rid themselves of conditions in the blink of an eye.
I've always thought all the skills that cause Daze either cost way too much or are too hard to achieve (Skull Crack). Now we have more and more skills that cause Daze. Bestial Mauling costs the LEAST of all I think and it's not elite. It's hard to time it with the pet and I guess that's the challenge of it. Gale's 3s or Hammer's 3s knockdown will make it much easier. Daze in 8v8 may be less effective since condition is so easily cured but in random or 4v4, I can see it very effective. We need more testings of course.
Evilsod
I tried out a similar build to that BM/Exp/Marks that was mentioned earlier.
I used Ferocious Strike (becuase it was the only pet elite around at this time) along with an interrupt and Penetrating Attack + a few other pet skills. It gave me a fair bit of damage (13 BM 14 marks rest exp) and plenty of energy but the lack of healing was pretty bad. With a monk around it worked ok but once they got distracted i was pretty screwed.
I can see Heal As One been useful for this sorta build but then id have energy problems, its a lose lose situation
I used Ferocious Strike (becuase it was the only pet elite around at this time) along with an interrupt and Penetrating Attack + a few other pet skills. It gave me a fair bit of damage (13 BM 14 marks rest exp) and plenty of energy but the lack of healing was pretty bad. With a monk around it worked ok but once they got distracted i was pretty screwed.
I can see Heal As One been useful for this sorta build but then id have energy problems, its a lose lose situation
Linkusmax
Quote:
R/W Thumper
14 Beastmastery (Hat + Sup Rune)
12 Hammer Mastery
9 Expertise (Minor Rune)
Preferance + Druids Armour
Charm Animal
Comfort Animal
Hammer Bash
Irrisistable Blow
Bestial Mauling
Ferocious Strike (e)
Tigers Fury
Ressurection Signet
jibikao
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linkusmax
This was never true, the best beastmasters have always used /W for melee. In fact I can see my Pet preassure getting nasty as hell with Bestial Mauling. With the below build I just have to hit bestial just after I hit hammer bash and I should daze the target 75% of the time, if there blocking me slam a irrisistable blow home for the same effect.
R/W Thumper
14 Beastmastery (Hat + Sup Rune)
12 Hammer Mastery
9 Expertise (Minor Rune)
Preferance + Druids Armour
Charm Animal
Comfort Animal
Hammer Bash
Irrisistable Blow
Bestial Mauling
Ferocious Strike (e)
Tigers Fury
Ressurection Signet All or nothing.... you put 14 in Beast Mastery. I call it "all". That's a lot of investment in one skill line dude.
I guess I wasn't clear but besides R/W or W/R using Tiger's Fury or pet's dead body, I hardly see any other class that really uses pet. Some Necros do but most only use it for energy and very few Mesmers use pet to spam disrupting lunge.
But with the new pet skills, a simple combo with Bestiaul Mauling with your build and even Ele can make it very useful, at least in random arena. I don't think anybody had the time to test everything out but I can see Beast Mastery becoming more versatile.
R/W Thumper
14 Beastmastery (Hat + Sup Rune)
12 Hammer Mastery
9 Expertise (Minor Rune)
Preferance + Druids Armour
Charm Animal
Comfort Animal
Hammer Bash
Irrisistable Blow
Bestial Mauling
Ferocious Strike (e)
Tigers Fury
Ressurection Signet All or nothing.... you put 14 in Beast Mastery. I call it "all". That's a lot of investment in one skill line dude.
I guess I wasn't clear but besides R/W or W/R using Tiger's Fury or pet's dead body, I hardly see any other class that really uses pet. Some Necros do but most only use it for energy and very few Mesmers use pet to spam disrupting lunge.
But with the new pet skills, a simple combo with Bestiaul Mauling with your build and even Ele can make it very useful, at least in random arena. I don't think anybody had the time to test everything out but I can see Beast Mastery becoming more versatile.