HoD vs. FFS

This merely my opinion, but I've seen a lot of these debates recently.

These are the stats of the items, which I've put in my opinion of optimal form. The Furious hilt/haft is debatable, but the only real one that will benefit an IMonk, which uses Bonetti's Defense. And the Enchantment pommel/grip is a no-brainer.

Furious Long Sword of Enchanting
Energy +5
Slashing Dmg: 14-21 (Requires 9 Swordsmanship)
Double Adrenaline on hit (Chance: 10%)
Enchantments last 20% longer
Value: 107 gold

VS.

Furious Flame Spitter of Enchanting
Slashing Dmg: 6-16 (Requires 3 Axe Mastery)
Halves skill recharge of spells (Chance: 10%)
Armor -10 (while attacking)
Double Adrenaline on hit (Chance: 10%)
Enchantments last 20% longer
Value: 15 gold

Now, one is a collector wep and another is a crafter wep. Though, the HoD sword can no longer be crafted and is highly sought after. Also, the 15% FFS was not used because:

a) really hard to find, most people who have it won't give theirs up
b) high cost, which of course is due to low supply and high demand

Now, onto the Pros N' Cons!

HoD Sword

Pros:
Unconditional +5 Energy
Moddable, unlike wands, and can add prefixes/suffixes
Can hold gold value (ectos keep getting lower and R/S are unstable)
Status symbol for IMonks

Neutral:
Long Sword, but has a Short Sword/Gladius skin, like the craftable 15^50 Long Sword in Droknar's Forge

Cons:
Quite expensive

The Explanation

HoD Swords are quite hard to find and uncraftable now, so they are quite pricey, ranging from 300-500k depending on the seller and if it has a prefix or suffix. It is moddable, unlike wands, and you can of course add a 20% Enchantment mod or 10% Furious mod. It is like a status symbol for monks to show that they have it. The skin is not extraordinary or unique, but you can prove it in the trade window I suppose. Also, they can be used to hold value, which mine do. I usually reserve their value for gold since my storage can't hold more than 1 Mil and ectos aren't reliable. Ectos drop because of speculation of new l33t armor or something. Rubies and Sapphs are also unreliable as they were 1.5k a few months ago and may go down because of Jade N' Amber. They hold value well and can only go up now because they can't be found/made anymore. Though, this may not be the case in the near future as someone "CLAIMS" to have found an Enrg +5 Oni Blade, unconditional, not like a mod on it, but like an inherent mod. No SS though, so no truth to it as of yet, and if I got an item like that, SS!

Flame Spitter

Pros:
Halves skill recharge of spells (Chance: 10%)
Cheap as hell, since it's from a collector and can still be found

Neutral:
Cool name, but just the skin of a War Axe

Cons:
Too cheap, I might not even mod it.

The Explanation

FFS is really a great IMonk item. Though not of the fame as the HoD sword is, it is really quite good value at only 3 Scorched Lodestones. I know many people who can afford HoD sword, but like the occasional half skill recharge, which can be VERY helpful! The skin is really not an issue, yet it does have a cool name. But it is so cheap, I don't know if I would really consider adding 10% Furious or 20% Enchantment mod. The mods would be worth like 1000x the value of the item itself. Plus it would be hard to sell since other people can just get it and mod it themselves.

The Verdict

Really, it is a matter of preference. Do you like that extra spell, or that spell to recharge faster? Do you like to brag to your friends about your uBeR l33t item, or do you like using cheap, but effective collector's items? I don't know. But in anycase, for the general public, the best value is the FFS. Though you might feel odd about adding mods worth like 1000x the value of the item and it will be hard to sell, if you are really playing the game for performance, you should. The HoD sword just costs too much, much more than the mean of the average GW income (like we have one ). It is out of reach for many players and is short on numbers in every server (though people are offloading theirs after the whole +5 Oni Blade debacle).

Whatever you choose, hopefully you have learned something or been able to connect to something I wrote. HF & GL playing GW!

Why not use Gordacs rod?
It has range, and is + 10%
And its cheap 2.
Cuz with an axe or sword UW-duo/solo is harder

It is a green wand. First, it is unmoddable because it's a green, but is also unmoddable because it is a wand. The whole point of these items is that they offer a nice inherent mod and are moddable w/ good prefixes/suffixes.

True, but i use that rod myself and i can speak very highly about it cuz it rocks ^.^ and i dont even use Blessed aura or something, but i can see why ppl want those axes or swords, tho i hate it in UW =)

thats inefficient and unecessary

congrats.

anyway, with my enchants up, 5 energy doesnt do much of a difference, so i use the FFS, i might get an HOD though, since its always active unlike the 10% chance.

Personally, I love my Icy Flame Spitter of Enchanting. If I'm in a team with a spinal shivers necro, I'll even go up and whack on a boss just to add a chance to interrupt.

And I have the HoD sword, too. I like the IFS more.

I dissagree with stating that you get to use an extra skill with the HoD sword. It is far easier to simply switch weapon sets to any collector staff for +10 energy instantly. so 0 to (IE)10 energy is instant life saving for an Imonk that has prot spirit flashing to an end.


my verdict: HoD sword is just a status symbol with no real use to justify it costing so much. though having that status is nice and something to be proud of, i dont see using that weapon as a real gain to your character.

Truly ... for a 55 monk, +5 energy all times and +5 energy while enchanted IS THE SAME lol. i use an rod with +5 energy while enchated and works as fine.
note: dont need +20% enchat so bad, because i use 55 with prot bond, not spirit. but the furious would be a sweet add for bonetts indeed.

i agree with the point of the HOD sword be a status item , like fow armor is. [but fow armor is cool , particulary female necro =)]

Interestingly enough, 55 monks aren't the only type of monks in the game.

The HoD sword isn't just a status item, it has a tangible benefit over a staff or in a focus swap. Especially in a focus swap: As Ensign pointed out, putting your HoD in your first focus swap up, it's a +22 over your base set, as opposed to just +17 or +15. That is a use that neither staves nor FFS can give you.

True, but if your build depends on enchantment duration mods, then weapon switches can impact your build's effectiveness. One such example is an UW SS/SV necro.

This may change if the HoD sword does return in Factions as rumored by one of the FPE NPC's. We will know in about 1 month's time.

I use fiery flame spitter it works really well, its nice when you use soj and it pops back up in about 10sec, and I dont even have a enchant mod but it helps some to have one just too lazy to buy one lol

He (the NPC merchant) told us how he had the weapons of the old denravi trader...That really does sound like the 'HoD' sword is coming back...it's essentially saying just that, isn't it? Or perhaps it was a joke, he is a merchant and has them...like player merchants...I dunno that seems a bit streched - an NPC taunting players he has the HoD sword, nay, Loads of them (and axes no doubt!)! I had an HoD sword but sold it...don't want to loose 400k


also I prefer the FFS, anyday, for farming, when the 10% recharge kicked in on SoJ, it felt good, and +5 energy for farming, is just meaningless, i've never came close to needing more energy than my lions arch tats give me.

The HoD sword does give a solid + 5 energy though, which is useful for a secondary weapon (don't want it burnt off right away).

Sorry, i missed the point here.
SS/SV uw necro dont need enchant boost, i known pretty well because i mainly play with necro . and i do SS uw.
or are u telling it makes SS lasts longer? as far as i known its a hex, dont count to enchant boost.

I use morgrif's scepter with villnar's cesta. sweet combination.

HoD sword = great for any kind of PvP character that uses enchantments (prot monk for instance).

FFS = best weapon for invinciMonks IMO, energy should never be a problem.

SV is an enchantment and can have benefit from the enchantment mod. However, SV of 18secs is usually sufficient.

uhmmm can me somebody tell where exactly the guy with the ffs is located?
plz^^

I had a thread in the Tyrian Explorer's League a while back because I was tired of people scamming newbs for like 5k making it look like it's rare. It's in Pockmark Flats, a little outside of Serentiy Temple. Kill some stone golems on the way for at least 3 Scorched Lodestones. Look for Nicanor Gannel I think it is. He doesn't always appear unfortunately, and it is unknown why. It is not a matter of favor, so it remains unresolved.

Remember, searching is your friend. Though I do know that search is often disabled...

Check out Cerb's SS/SV necro guide in the Necro build section:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...d.php?t=130693

I posted my new findings about how a 20% enchant one-hander really tunes the SS/SV necro even further. SS isn't the enchant mod's target... it's SV, BR, ATB, and AE. An 18-second SV means there is no longer any need to echo SV nor cast cover-hexes to protect SS. My smite kill times are now consistently under 15-seconds as a result.

Try Vilnar's Claw with Fiery Flame Spitter of Enchanting 20%... once you switch to the gear settings I mentioned in that thread, you'll wonder why you didn't do this sooner...

I never really though the HOD sword mattered in terms of Invinca Monking. In my opinion the only thing that justifys the price is if you plan on using it GvG or something where you either have +2 more energy, or 20% longer enchantments compared to other Monks.

Once again though it can be debated, and you can always carry a second weapon set. Thus having the +5 energy Nolani wand and the FFS at your fingertips.

Anyways just thought I'd point out that for me anyways the only thing justifying the cost would be if I planned on using one in the PvP enviroment on one of my Casters. Otherwise I don't think the cost justifys it for PvE, since you could pretty much use Candy Cane items and still be able to farm trolls or UW....but I guess you could say the same for PvP as well. *shrugs*

thx Stickyballs for info.. the problem is search on this forum never works for me dunno why ... gives me error all time

you are right, it does affect your build. it gives you quick much needed energy to stay alive. even without 20% enchant mod from casting with an item that doesnt have it. you now have 18 seconds of prot spirit(or however much you have in prot). if you cant gain at least 10 energy in that time, do a simple weapon set switch again for the free energy then run into your mob knowing that you wont die in 1 hit.

giving UW as an example of needing energy doesnt really make sense, In the UW there is no real point in taking down your enemy unless you have a decent mob of them. other than when i was new to Imonk UW farming, i have never ran into any trouble to even need to switch weapon sets for energy. In my opinion, the place where you need to conserve your energy the most is farming outside dunes since you are going up against such small mobs. there would be one of the only places i would truely say +5 to energy would be helpfull

I use a splitter. When SpellBreaker hits that 10% recharge it makes me smile.

Well..what about all the warrior runners out there? I like using my HoD for doing FoW chest runs..when I come up on the first group of the Skeletal army..mainly the Skeletal Ether Breakers that use Energy surge I equip my health + sword then when/if they use energy surge i switch to my HoD and continue on with just enough energy to either cast smite hex or another sprint or endure pain. I just got another HoD for a reasonable price(100k+35ecto) and am contemplating on puting on a +30 pommel.

Anyways..just wanted to say as for my 55 monk it really isn't that big a deal..and sometimes I use it with my UW SS necro. I also have a FFS with a 20% enchant...it's really a toss up...of course the FFS is a better deal when it comes to price.

And another question I've got..why the hell would anyone pay such high prices for a stupid 15% FFS, I think thats rediculous and not worth a meesly 5% gain.

Honestly, I prefer +25 Health, HoD Axe.

Surely that +5 energy wand (worth 9g, instead of 400,000g) would be fine for that kinda switch?

point is i had 3 Hods swords 1 customized for my warrior 2 other 1of them with 20% enchant and 10% furious..
i sold 1 for around 100k at a time i didnt know how much it was woth...dam stupid
the other one i modded for my monk i sold 2 days ago because im afraid of the possibility that theres a new guy in factions with this kind of swords and around 400k is atm for me to much money to loose^^ since anet works all day to make my life harder^^
so i will use ffs till i know and if the hod swords not coming back in factions its not that über bad^^
and i need to collect enough money for my perfect shinobi 15^50 sword^^
i will buy for my warrior...

did you just mention Factions swords?

*drools*

and yes, I sold mine also

While the above is technically correct, none of it follows the point I was making. Yes, weapon switches for extra energy can save your toon's life, but anything other than a HoD sword won't have both the extra energy and enchantment mod in a one-hand package. Hence, the HoD sword can't just be called a status symbol when it provides a significant advantage to its owners.

It wasn't an example of needing only energy -- it was an example of both energy and 20% enchantment extension in a one-handed weapon, thereby letting an SS/SV necro also wield Vilnar's Claw, or a 55-monk using the -50 CoA focus.

FFS can grant both 10% skill recharge and 20% enchantment mod, which is the best available caster one-hander still in production. The HoD sword is no longer produced in the current patch, but some are hoping that Factions sees its return. We'll soon find out.

I realized that ATB isn't a functionally skill for smite run. then i dont use it.
BR is out of my build too. i'm curses/death for SS smite run. normally i take 20-22 secs from the cast of the first SV to the last smite to die. sometimes faster.
My energy management is timed to fit exactly what i need to cast .. im fine with that, plus 10/10 on the scepter makes diference, both of then.
note: my SV lasts 14 secs, more than good for me.
for FFS, ure thinking for smiters, but how about the aatxes and grasping darkness ? it dont make any diference, the 20% enchanting
and for AE too, dont need +20% time on it, alread lasts 20 secs.
i like the scepter with 10/10, because i use death/curses/illusion skills. 3 dif types.

Based on the above, I'm guessing that you echo SV to maintain energy control and get only 37-39 damage spiteful spirits at best (mine hit 41-43). If this is the case, you might want to run actual stop-watch trials on your actual smite kill times since 20-22 seconds sounds VERY optimistic. Monks can handle 3+ smite groups if the necro can post sub-15 second kills, which probably won't be the case if that necro echo's SV. 14-second SV's are not long enough for consistent sub-15 second kills.

Sorry, but I disagree. 20 second arcane echo's are extended to 24 seconds (More echo'd SS's can be cast), SV 15->18 seconds (no "Fear-Me" from darks), and AtB becomes 40+ seconds (45 sec recharge time, so it's up almost the whole combat). All of the above maximize the necro/mesmers damage per second output and increase the monk's safety margin.

The concepts I'm describing do not apply to all-day leisurely smite kills... they're focused on fastest possible smite kill times, thereby allowing the most smite-runs in a fixed time frame. Therefore, if maximum kill speeds are not your priority, then please ignore the above.

Having both items, I actually prefer the sword because the attack rate is faster so I get adrenaline faster too to cast bonetti. It takes a bit longer with the axe.

I also prefer an always +5 energy bonus over a 10% chance one.

This is my personal opinion based on the builds I use so play with whatever suits you best.

This is a popular rumor but completely untrue. Using FRAPS, others have documented proof showing that swords and axes attack at exactly the same rate.

Weird, I do have the feeling that I get adrenaline faster with a sword. My question now is do they give the same amount of adrenaline within the same attack rate?

Completely wrong thread for this, not even part of the discussion. Has nothing to do with energy or skill recharge and I don't think IMonks want any more health.

It has been well documented that BOTH swords and axes attack every 1.33 seconds.

Gun Pierson: Must be your perception or maybe your furious hilt is kicking in. They gain adrenaline at same rate.

EDIT: typos

Indeed, I have no furious upgrade on the axe, but do have one on the sword. So my first argument why I prefer the sword doesn't count anymore.

Personally I prefer FFS or if possible HoD axe.

The HoD axe and Pre-nerf FFS (it used to be 15% recharge) are insanely expensive though and impossible to get your hands on.

u can get one in the High-End section atm ^^

Which one is in the high-end forum if you don't mind my asking ? That's partially why they're so expensive, nobody has them lol...

Agree.

If you need energy, the wand will work. The sword is mainly good because of the 20% enchanting mod that you can put on it. Does it justify the price ? Well...

if your asking which is better, hod hands down