<NOTE> PvP aside. Talking PvE, this is not a PvP discussion.
Do you really need many points in Energy Storage? With the time you have to recharge your energy between mobs, I've not noticed a need for the full amount in Energy Storage.
Any Real point to Energy Storage?
SnipiousMax
Rhunex
That would depend. If you use spells that cost a lot, like Meteor Shower and Rodgort's Invocation, then not only is a high level of energy storage needed, but you also need to have an attunement, or both.
If all you do is spam things like stone daggers or flare then I would say you wouldn't need much energy storage. But if all you do is spam things like stone daggers or flare then you're a very useless elementalist.
If all you do is spam things like stone daggers or flare then I would say you wouldn't need much energy storage. But if all you do is spam things like stone daggers or flare then you're a very useless elementalist.
Francis Crawford
If I'm using one of the very few Energy Storage skills, I'm obviously motivated to keep the attribute level high. And if all my spells are in one attribute, then of course I might as well dump the rest of the points into Energy Storage.
Otherwise, I tend to max out one elemental attribute (typically Fire), and split the other points more or less evenly between Energy Storage and something else (typically Healing or Inspiration).
Otherwise, I tend to max out one elemental attribute (typically Fire), and split the other points more or less evenly between Energy Storage and something else (typically Healing or Inspiration).
Eaimirth Etaivella
Points in energy storage net high levels of ether prodigy ^_~;;
...then again you can always duel attunement in pve
...then again you can always duel attunement in pve
paramoreLoverSam2006
JA! I think energy storage is important for any spell casting proffessions. What do you think?
Megla Zero
Quote:
Originally Posted by paramoreLoverSam2006
JA! I think energy storage is important for any spell casting proffessions. What do you think?
Not really... Necro's Soul Reaping is technically better if you're not using insanely high-cost skills repeatedly, since when everything dies or starts to die you'll get bursts of energy to do more with. Monk's Divine Favor comes in handy when you get the extra 50 or so healing points on every spell. Energy Storage, in itself, is a useful spell in some cases... but it all depends on what you're using it for. Fast Casting is another really useful attribute depending on what you're doing... getting off resses in ~4 seconds, or nailing 1/2 second casts instead of 1 and so on can come in handy depending on the situation.
Waylayer
What else would you use your attribute points for?
Most teams in PvE want a player with e-storage+1 element (fire usually), not some rainbow Ele.
Most teams in PvE want a player with e-storage+1 element (fire usually), not some rainbow Ele.
achiles the mermedon
Maybe he is asking for advice?
A warrior says to me "Do u ever run out of energy?"
So I say yes it could happen and I click at My energy is 84 of 84 I think he freaked out lol.
Yes energy storage is very valuable if you intend to be effective as an elementalist. 87 (my max with right weapons before any moral boosts) is very needed if you do any kind of pug playing and are not sure exactly how others play. I have been able to take down many a shadow warrior or other such enemies on my own when healer was busy and necro only had little time.
So learn it -use it- love it.
Just mho
A warrior says to me "Do u ever run out of energy?"
So I say yes it could happen and I click at My energy is 84 of 84 I think he freaked out lol.
Yes energy storage is very valuable if you intend to be effective as an elementalist. 87 (my max with right weapons before any moral boosts) is very needed if you do any kind of pug playing and are not sure exactly how others play. I have been able to take down many a shadow warrior or other such enemies on my own when healer was busy and necro only had little time.
So learn it -use it- love it.
Just mho
Katari
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnipiousMax
<NOTE> PvP aside. Talking PvE, this is not a PvP discussion.
Do you really need many points in Energy Storage? With the time you have to recharge your energy between mobs, I've not noticed a need for the full amount in Energy Storage. It's good to have a reasonable amount of energy storage, but I see no need to go to any extreme. I like to use 10-13 energy storage on my ele, using 13 with a single-element build, and less if I use secondary class skills, like Heal Party.
Using a superior Energy Storage rune is just downright silly, and yet I've seen many eles with one. As with other classes, max energy isn't as important as your managment of it is.
Do you really need many points in Energy Storage? With the time you have to recharge your energy between mobs, I've not noticed a need for the full amount in Energy Storage. It's good to have a reasonable amount of energy storage, but I see no need to go to any extreme. I like to use 10-13 energy storage on my ele, using 13 with a single-element build, and less if I use secondary class skills, like Heal Party.
Using a superior Energy Storage rune is just downright silly, and yet I've seen many eles with one. As with other classes, max energy isn't as important as your managment of it is.
Killmur
I keep my Energy for my Ele at 72 all the time.
Natural 9 + Minor Energy Rune = 10
Milius's Eye +12 Energy
I will be honest it does not matter how much Energy you have you still have to rest like any other spellcaster. I have at times completly exhausted my supply and had to rest or at least try to. I say try to cause sometimes people do not listen nor do most people understand Eles are very much like Monks when it comes to Energy.
Natural 9 + Minor Energy Rune = 10
Milius's Eye +12 Energy
I will be honest it does not matter how much Energy you have you still have to rest like any other spellcaster. I have at times completly exhausted my supply and had to rest or at least try to. I say try to cause sometimes people do not listen nor do most people understand Eles are very much like Monks when it comes to Energy.
koneko
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waylayer
Most teams in PvE want a player with e-storage+1 element (fire usually), not some rainbow Ele.
Quote:
Using a superior Energy Storage rune is just downright silly, and yet I've seen many eles with one.
*raises hand*
It's silly, but I use my ele with 16 Fire and 15 Energy Storage (-75hp Superior Fire + -75hp Superior Energy Storage + 50hp Superior Vigor + 60hp staff = 440hp). More points means that you can fit in more high-energy spells (Rodgort's) before hitting Ether Prodigy (so you can throw out even more spells).
I hate dual attunements in PvE since you're in trouble once they get stripped one by one (Aura of Restoration first, then Fire, then Elemental). EP has a low recharge - recast it and go.
Sure, you don't need to dump a lot of points into Energy Storage...I just think it's nicer if you do.
It's silly, but I use my ele with 16 Fire and 15 Energy Storage (-75hp Superior Fire + -75hp Superior Energy Storage + 50hp Superior Vigor + 60hp staff = 440hp). More points means that you can fit in more high-energy spells (Rodgort's) before hitting Ether Prodigy (so you can throw out even more spells).
I hate dual attunements in PvE since you're in trouble once they get stripped one by one (Aura of Restoration first, then Fire, then Elemental). EP has a low recharge - recast it and go.
Sure, you don't need to dump a lot of points into Energy Storage...I just think it's nicer if you do.
Cherno
High energy storage can be extremely important in some of the more challange instensive parts of the game (FOW, Tombs, SF, etc).
I usually run a double attune pyro and in normal pve missions etc high energy storage isn't really that important. But in those areas where you have large mobs or a lot of bosses, even with attunement your higher energy level will allow you to be a constant source of dmg while others recharge. Soul reaping only works when something dies. Sometimes you can't get the things to die and the necro is just sitting there wanding. I love my necro and love soul reaping, but it isn't necessarily better than ES.
I usually run a double attune pyro and in normal pve missions etc high energy storage isn't really that important. But in those areas where you have large mobs or a lot of bosses, even with attunement your higher energy level will allow you to be a constant source of dmg while others recharge. Soul reaping only works when something dies. Sometimes you can't get the things to die and the necro is just sitting there wanding. I love my necro and love soul reaping, but it isn't necessarily better than ES.
Cherno
Quote:
Originally Posted by koneko
I hate dual attunements in PvE since you're in trouble once they get stripped one by one (Aura of Restoration first, then Fire, then Elemental). EP has a low recharge - recast it and go.
Dual attunement is very good in PvE. Sure it can get stipped (less often than most people actually make it out to be), but when it does, you will have enough energy due to high ES to finish out that mob without really missing a beat.
AshBlade Arc
Dual attunments use up energy you can use for dmg. Equip the attunment for the majority of the spells you are casting. An example might be: Fire attunment, Aura of Restoration, then equip an enchantment you can live without, a low cost one, (last one cast is first one stripped). This build keeps more slots open for dmg while preventing some of the stripping.
SnipiousMax
Quote:
Originally Posted by AshBlade Arc
Dual attunments use up energy you can use for dmg.
I don't know that I buy into that... Dual attunements means that spells will cost a considerable amount less, meaning you are free to cast more spells than if you had just used one. Stripping isn't so common in PvE as to make it a problem.
I don't know that I buy into that... Dual attunements means that spells will cost a considerable amount less, meaning you are free to cast more spells than if you had just used one. Stripping isn't so common in PvE as to make it a problem.
LightningHell
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnipiousMax
I don't know that I buy into that... Dual attunements means that spells will cost a considerable amount less, meaning you are free to cast more spells than if you had just used one. Stripping isn't so common in PvE as to make it a problem.
Only if you trust your tanker enough.
AshBlade Arc
If you use dual attunments you can cast spells from the 2 differant skills but you also have to put points in those skills. I you split your points up say between Fire and Earth magic instead of putting all points in to one you have lowered the effectivness of both. Putting all your points in to one and only useing spells from that one gives you a much more effective spell set.
NatalieD
AshBlade, when people say "dual attunements" they mean using one regular attunement plus the elite Elemental Attunement.
Francis Crawford
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnipiousMax
Stripping isn't so common in PvE as to make it a problem.
Unless you farm in high level areas.
SnipiousMax
Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis Crawford
Unless you farm in high level areas.
Farming builds are pretty specific, and I'm not farming.
Mouse at Large
Energy storage is a must for my ele/me who uses a mesmer skillbar + Aura of Restoration 
Francis Crawford
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnipiousMax
Farming builds are pretty specific, and I'm not farming.
Well, if you're not talking about farming, and you're not talking about Sorrow's Furnace at all, and you're not talking about the UW at all, and you're only talking about areas of the game appropriate to elementalist players who have access to a Perdition Rock elite, that doesn't leave a whole lot to generalize about, does it?
MasterDinadan
Energy Storage is a great buffer against exhaustion. You can't really spam an exhausting spell like Obsidian Flame when you only have 40 energy... But if you've got 75, the exhaustion is not so noticable.
neoteo
my post in the best elite skill fits here too
imo energy is what we need more , i have 15 in energy storage and my elite is glyph of energy.
---------------------------------------------
from the best alite thread :
since energy is what we need more , with this build i can be casting non stop. all heavy dmg skills and dobble showers .. i didnt find any better nuker build for pve yet.
ele/mesmer
ragos flame staff
sup rune of fire
sup rune of energy storage
sup rune of vigor
16 fire
15 energy storage
3 inspiration
mantra of resolve
arcane echo
meteor shower
glyph of energy
rodgors invocation
meteor
fireball
rez sig
and goes like this , mantra of resolve , arcane echo , meteor shower , glyph of energy , meteor shower ( the one in arcane place ) , meteor , fire ball , glyph of energy ( by this time glyph is recharged ) , rodgors invocation , meteor , fireball , glyph of energy , meteor shower ... and so and so on , when arcane echo comes up , dobble shower goes ... resolve also always goes on everytime it comes on ... sometimes is not needed but im used to cast it all the time , so i wont get interupted , its anoying
-----------------------------------------------
imo energy is what we need more , i have 15 in energy storage and my elite is glyph of energy.
---------------------------------------------
from the best alite thread :
since energy is what we need more , with this build i can be casting non stop. all heavy dmg skills and dobble showers .. i didnt find any better nuker build for pve yet.
ele/mesmer
ragos flame staff
sup rune of fire
sup rune of energy storage
sup rune of vigor
16 fire
15 energy storage
3 inspiration
mantra of resolve
arcane echo
meteor shower
glyph of energy
rodgors invocation
meteor
fireball
rez sig
and goes like this , mantra of resolve , arcane echo , meteor shower , glyph of energy , meteor shower ( the one in arcane place ) , meteor , fire ball , glyph of energy ( by this time glyph is recharged ) , rodgors invocation , meteor , fireball , glyph of energy , meteor shower ... and so and so on , when arcane echo comes up , dobble shower goes ... resolve also always goes on everytime it comes on ... sometimes is not needed but im used to cast it all the time , so i wont get interupted , its anoying
-----------------------------------------------
Evilsod
Is it just me who finds the Echo elite really utterly useless for eles? Why waste your elite on that over Renewal? I still haven't heard a convincing argument for it, i'm not a fan of Arcane Echo on eles either.
Glyph of Energy is fairly good when your running EQ/AS builds but i'm really not a fan of the 60s recharge of Meteor Shower just to save yourself 20energy (by the time the exhaustion matters to you from MS in PvE somets wrong).
Specifically in FoW here and more specifically for the book trick. These are shadow monks, they dont give a toss how much energy manage you have, they can heal through it given 2 seconds glance. Preferabbly i go in there knowing theres a necro with some sort of battery skill so i can spam fire with Glyph of Renewal all i like.
What can i say? I'm a fan (which **** got that word filtered) for the Meteor Shower spamming in PvE, some might call it nooby, i call it Reigning Death. All i take are 4 offensive spells (2 25 energy), Renewal, Aura+Attunement (don't think i've ever left town without them) and Rebirth. Why put points into Healing Prayers when you could simply max out your ES and use AoR and do damage at the same time as healing?
Glyph of Energy is fairly good when your running EQ/AS builds but i'm really not a fan of the 60s recharge of Meteor Shower just to save yourself 20energy (by the time the exhaustion matters to you from MS in PvE somets wrong).
Specifically in FoW here and more specifically for the book trick. These are shadow monks, they dont give a toss how much energy manage you have, they can heal through it given 2 seconds glance. Preferabbly i go in there knowing theres a necro with some sort of battery skill so i can spam fire with Glyph of Renewal all i like.
What can i say? I'm a fan (which **** got that word filtered) for the Meteor Shower spamming in PvE, some might call it nooby, i call it Reigning Death. All i take are 4 offensive spells (2 25 energy), Renewal, Aura+Attunement (don't think i've ever left town without them) and Rebirth. Why put points into Healing Prayers when you could simply max out your ES and use AoR and do damage at the same time as healing?
Haggard
Quote:
Originally Posted by Megla Zero
Necro's Soul Reaping is technically better if you're not using insanely high-cost skills repeatedly
Definately, with 13 soul reaping I don't even need to make my elite spot for energy management when MMing - perfect for when I get access to the Animate Flesh golem elite heading our way in factions.
oh and Evilsod, you dont use the elite Echo, you use the non elite one (which only affcts spells, but duh, youre an ele). Only use ive found for the elite echo is doing double galrath slashes (which in factions i won't even need to do, ad we get a double of that skill).
oh and Evilsod, you dont use the elite Echo, you use the non elite one (which only affcts spells, but duh, youre an ele). Only use ive found for the elite echo is doing double galrath slashes (which in factions i won't even need to do, ad we get a double of that skill).
SnipiousMax
Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis Crawford
Well, if you're not talking about farming, and you're not talking about Sorrow's Furnace at all, and you're not talking about the UW at all, and you're only talking about areas of the game appropriate to elementalist players who have access to a Perdition Rock elite, that doesn't leave a whole lot to generalize about, does it?
More missions are coming.
Minus Sign
Generally, more mana is a good thing. Trying to make a claim otherwise is an exercise in futility. Anyone can tell you mana=heals=damage=hexes=wards=longer survivability in difficult fights because you remain a more valuable member of the group.
Of course, anyone can say "naw; I wasn't talking about that situation." Well, i'll talk about them all. Farm: more mana for an ele=good. mission: more mana=good. Quest: more mana=good. PuG: more mana=VERY GOOD! PvP: more mana=good.
Unless you’re going full ward ele and using low cost spam spells that never even whiff exhaustion (and in the doing, reducing the effectiveness of your character to a point that I’d throw you out of the group faster than you can say “but I don’t NEED E storage!!!111!) Energy storage is the means by which elementalists dominate multiple fast spikes.
I’ve seen many nukes lose their energy in PuGs. Yes, it can definitely happen. And for the record SnipiousMax, the next time you want to make concessions, make them in your OP when you write it. This thread has already been asked and answered to your satisfaction: now you're just nit picking.
Of course, anyone can say "naw; I wasn't talking about that situation." Well, i'll talk about them all. Farm: more mana for an ele=good. mission: more mana=good. Quest: more mana=good. PuG: more mana=VERY GOOD! PvP: more mana=good.
Unless you’re going full ward ele and using low cost spam spells that never even whiff exhaustion (and in the doing, reducing the effectiveness of your character to a point that I’d throw you out of the group faster than you can say “but I don’t NEED E storage!!!111!) Energy storage is the means by which elementalists dominate multiple fast spikes.
I’ve seen many nukes lose their energy in PuGs. Yes, it can definitely happen. And for the record SnipiousMax, the next time you want to make concessions, make them in your OP when you write it. This thread has already been asked and answered to your satisfaction: now you're just nit picking.
Ninetail Trickster
Methinks Energy Storage is for Exhaustion- a condition nearly isolated to Elementalists, just like Energy Storage. I use a Mesmer/Elementalist. I never need energy storage, really... I can cope without. But I've tried to use a few spells that cause Exhaustion... I always end up regretting it. Thankfully the henchies don't scream at you for being useless.... >_<;;
LightningHell
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minus Sign
-snip-
Personally, I think E-Storage is used because Elementalists have such big spells. But the other classes's Primary Attribute is so much better...in a way of speaking.
Effendi Westland
I like it and it goes to the max unless i need Mantra of Resolve, then a massive 10 points go into inspiration (and i take energy tap also when i take MoR).
I am not a fan of Echo, glyph of energy only appeals to me when playing an earth build. I mostly use Glyph of Renewal and pack a.echo just in case the other nukers idea of nuking is casting only 1 meteor shower. Not a fan of a.echo as it eats energy, but in the higher areas most enemie monks are like superhealers and they need to be knocked down / interrupted / disabled (too bad most PuGs in those areas focus on necro, warrior, monk and ele).
I am not a fan of Echo, glyph of energy only appeals to me when playing an earth build. I mostly use Glyph of Renewal and pack a.echo just in case the other nukers idea of nuking is casting only 1 meteor shower. Not a fan of a.echo as it eats energy, but in the higher areas most enemie monks are like superhealers and they need to be knocked down / interrupted / disabled (too bad most PuGs in those areas focus on necro, warrior, monk and ele).
SnipiousMax
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minus Sign
I’ve seen many nukes lose their energy in PuGs. Yes, it can definitely happen. And for the record SnipiousMax, the next time you want to make concessions, make them in your OP when you write it. This thread has already been asked and answered to your satisfaction: now you're just nit picking.
I just said I wasn't farming, so using dual attunements isn't a problem. That's not a concession. Were I to go farming, I'd use a farming build, cause I'd be ineffective otherwise.
And my original post said nothing about taking no energy storage. I was questioning taking the 'full amount.' The normal distribution is 16 in element of choice, 13 in Energy Storage. And I've wondered the need to take 13 in energy storage. I'll clarify next time. Yes more energy is good. But energy used wisely to do more is better. I was driving at seeing whether it was possible to run two elements, and I've gotten my answer.
And my original post said nothing about taking no energy storage. I was questioning taking the 'full amount.' The normal distribution is 16 in element of choice, 13 in Energy Storage. And I've wondered the need to take 13 in energy storage. I'll clarify next time. Yes more energy is good. But energy used wisely to do more is better. I was driving at seeing whether it was possible to run two elements, and I've gotten my answer.
floplag
i odnt think an ele would carry Echo over Archane Echo... you carry the ele elite.
i run an ele/mes that absolutely has archane echo on the bar, actually most of the time its the only memsmer skill on the bar. the elite on the build id Elemental atunement. the atunement gives you bonus energy, and the echo makes it very easy to spam alot to damage very fast in most circumstances. if against alot of interrupters or drainers ill add hex breaker or another memser skill to counter them a little since most group are still to cookie cutter to bring mesmers, lol
i run an ele/mes that absolutely has archane echo on the bar, actually most of the time its the only memsmer skill on the bar. the elite on the build id Elemental atunement. the atunement gives you bonus energy, and the echo makes it very easy to spam alot to damage very fast in most circumstances. if against alot of interrupters or drainers ill add hex breaker or another memser skill to counter them a little since most group are still to cookie cutter to bring mesmers, lol
Minus Sign
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnipiousMax
I just said I wasn't farming, so using dual attunements isn't a problem. That's not a concession. Were I to go farming, I'd use a farming build, cause I'd be ineffective otherwise.
And my original post said nothing about taking no energy storage. I was questioning taking the 'full amount.' The normal distribution is 16 in element of choice, 13 in Energy Storage. And I've wondered the need to take 13 in energy storage. I'll clarify next time. Yes more energy is good. But energy used wisely to do more is better. I was driving at seeing whether it was possible to run two elements, and I've gotten my answer. Earth and Air builds; Waterpumps. That such. Ok. Well, then the obvious answer is no, you don't want to max out energy storage because you lose your spike. proper distribution between three attributes is important. It's also case sensitive on teh spells in your skillsot.
But nor do you want to put all your points into soul reaping when you run MM, or blood battery. Energy managment is a 3rd attribute just like fast casting to a dom/inspiration mesmer or a strength to a warrior (hardly ever see them with max stats.)
And my original post said nothing about taking no energy storage. I was questioning taking the 'full amount.' The normal distribution is 16 in element of choice, 13 in Energy Storage. And I've wondered the need to take 13 in energy storage. I'll clarify next time. Yes more energy is good. But energy used wisely to do more is better. I was driving at seeing whether it was possible to run two elements, and I've gotten my answer. Earth and Air builds; Waterpumps. That such. Ok. Well, then the obvious answer is no, you don't want to max out energy storage because you lose your spike. proper distribution between three attributes is important. It's also case sensitive on teh spells in your skillsot.
But nor do you want to put all your points into soul reaping when you run MM, or blood battery. Energy managment is a 3rd attribute just like fast casting to a dom/inspiration mesmer or a strength to a warrior (hardly ever see them with max stats.)
SnipiousMax
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minus Sign
Earth and Air builds; Waterpumps. That such. Ok. Well, then the obvious answer is no, you don't want to max out energy storage because you lose your spike. proper distribution between three attributes is important. It's also case sensitive on teh spells in your skillsot.
Thank you, that's the perfect answer!
I'll come right and say what I'm looking for next time.
Thank you, that's the perfect answer!
I'll come right and say what I'm looking for next time.
torquemada
For me , high EStorage is a must. I don't like to Dual Attune (spending elite just for energy management - bleh).
floplag
i disagree, i love the dual attunements .. you can spam rodgorts, or anything else for VERY long periods of time without worrying about energy. especially if you are ele/Mes with archane echo.
carrying 6 or 7 spells isnt always as effective as carrying 4 high powered ones that you can spam.
no one size fits all here, thats for sure
carrying 6 or 7 spells isnt always as effective as carrying 4 high powered ones that you can spam.
no one size fits all here, thats for sure
LightningHell
Play to your playstyle so you can win. <_<>_>
CKaz
The elementalist is the only class without energy armor and a lot of the big guns exhaust, so a bunch is essential to the elementalist (and one reason IMO ANets thought one ele can play with these multi-line elemental skills is silly). But no I've never needed more than 12+1 (no maj/sup) in energy storage. And when leveraging another line (usually a secondary) usually keeping EStorage at 8-9-10 with the minor rune.
Katari
Quote:
Originally Posted by CKaz
The elementalist is the only class without energy armor and a lot of the big guns exhaust, so a bunch is essential to the elementalist (and one reason IMO ANets thought one ele can play with these multi-line elemental skills is silly). But no I've never needed more than 12+1 (no maj/sup) in energy storage. And when leveraging another line (usually a secondary) usually keeping EStorage at 8-9-10 with the minor rune.
Agreed. It's not the max energy that I ever have poroblems with on an ele, it's the recovery of my energy. Sure, max energy has it's uses, but I feel confident saying 6 max energy is never worth -75hp. I'm not even convinced 5 energy is worth 30hp (Hale vs Insightful).
Having more max energy lets you be less carefull with big-energy skills, and makes energy managment skills easier to use. But having 90 energy on an ele just so you can spam flare for (slightly) longer is just silly, and sacrificing 75 hp to do so is even worse.
Having more max energy lets you be less carefull with big-energy skills, and makes energy managment skills easier to use. But having 90 energy on an ele just so you can spam flare for (slightly) longer is just silly, and sacrificing 75 hp to do so is even worse.