Easy and Effective RA Axe Build

Glitched

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2006

E/Me

30 Mar 2006 at 01:05 - 1

For those of you who enjoy playing an axe warrior in the random arenas, here is a very simple build that will do great against most enemies.

(Note: These are my attributes, and I have not yet unlocked all runes. You may wish to use your runes differently.)

Attributes:
Axe Mastery: 15 (12+1+2)
Strength: 13 (12+1)

Skills:
Dismember
Axe Rake
Axe Twist
Executioner's Strike
Protector's Strike
Plague Touch
Battle Rage (elite)
Rez Sig

Basically, maintain Battle Rage, re-casting just before it ends. Keep chaining the first four skills for some easy damage + conditions, and use Protector on anyone who tries to run. (they should be crippled) Because protector's is your only other energy skill, you can you plague just about whenever you're hit with a condition.

You can get through the defenses of most monks, so the only thing you really need to worry about is an anti-warrior build.

Savio

Teenager with attitude

Join Date: Jul 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

30 Mar 2006 at 05:02 - 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glitched

You can get through the defenses of most monks, so the only thing you really need to worry about is an anti-warrior build.

No, not against a decent boon prot. No IAS of any sort to pump out 50% more damage, and Axe Twist is... subpar. (Casters don't care if they do 66% less damage, and Warriors can power through it with attack skills.)

My base RA build W/:

Lieutenant's Helm, Stonefist Gauntlets, Knight's Boots, Gladiator Hauberk and Leggings: You deal with hexes a lot, and having Stonefist on all the time barely hurts.

Axe Mastery: 13 (12+1) - normally I'd go Superior, but there's too much degen flying around RA.
Strength: 10 (9+1) - minimal more damage. If you're using your secondary you can take the points out of this for it.
Tactics: 10 (9+1) - Healing.Sprint - need to get in their faces. Also cancels Frenzy. A very good alternative is Rush, although if you're out of Adrenaline it can get awkward. Frenzy - yes, complain about double damage, but the alternatives are Flurry which does significantly less damage and drains your energy like crazy, or Tiger's Fury which requires you to dump points in Beastmastery. Eviscerate - best attack skill ever. If you don't have this on your skillbar, you might as well go with a sword. Executioner's Strike - Eviscerate's best friend. Use right after for best results. Healing Signet - can't expect to get a Monk, or a competent one, so self-healing helps. Make sure you time it right though and don't use it under heavy fire. Res Sig - They decide many battles in RA. Whichever side has more to use and gets more off generally wins. Don't wait until you're almost dead to res people; do it as soon as you can (although watch for the Distracting Shots of Rangers.) Blank slot - you can run whatever you want here. Consider what RA is mainly made up of:Paladins with Healing Hands Paladins with Gladiator's Defense Necros with Life Transfer Necros with Spiteful Spirit boon prot monks with CoP Cripshot rangers Escape/Dodge rangers Mesmers with Ineptitude Other builds, both good builds and crappy ones You want counters, as hoping someone else has one tends not to go so well. However, you can only prepare for so much. Some options I've had (may need to respec for secondary):Wild Blow: Stance tanks/monks/necros? Gone. Bull's Strike: Nail running enemies. Axe Rake: You can get some runners with this. Use after Eviscerate. Disrupting Chop: like I said, Res Sigs are very important, so disabling one for 20 seconds is very useful. Plague Touch (/N): Keeps those dirty conditions like Blind and Crippled off of ya. Holy Veil (/Mo): Helps against SS/LT, although you're not going to be wholly successful in staying clean. Just try not to use Frenzy under SS or Empathy and heal when needed. Drain Enchantment (/Me): "omg i lost mending i must recast it". Also helps with energy. Shock (/E): knockdown and minimal damage. Can be used to interrupt. Tiger's Fury (/R): faster attacks without the double damage.

The Real Roy Keane

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2006

Dublin, Ireland

30 Mar 2006 at 14:25 - 3

I just can't get on with Battle Rage-hammers aren't scary without Devastating Hammer or Backbreaker, axes aren't worth looking at without Eviscerate, and it doesn't go well with swords since Final Thrust also causes you to lose all adrenaline.

holden

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2005

[NICE]

Mo/

30 Mar 2006 at 14:49 - 4

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio[*

Res Sig - They decide many battles in RA. Whichever side has more to use and gets more off generally wins. Don't wait until you're almost dead to res people; do it as soon as you can
thats ftw

if res sig was elite good players would still bring it

Murder In China

Banned

Join Date: Sep 2005

/B/Chan

Looking for one

30 Mar 2006 at 16:42 - 5

Battle Rage[E] works well with a Sword user never with a hammer or axe.

Seef II

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

R/Mo

31 Mar 2006 at 00:35 - 6

It's good until you get crippled and have to get rid of it somehow, depleting all of your adrenaline. Still usable in RA though.

Yukito Kunisaki

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2005

Chicago, IL

W/N

31 Mar 2006 at 18:03 - 7

Unfortunately in PvP, both logically through testing and mechanics, the MUST HAVE skills on a warrior skill bar are ALWAYS with concerning weaponry...

Speed/IAS I've seen other warriors do without cause they use alternate buffs with lesser risk... [perhaps an enchantment to increase dps or a skill that contains] But the weapon choice is paramount and unless you have these elites on your bar, people will just say you suck and there's no fact/logic in the world that can prove them wrong... [believe me, I tried...

]

If you use an axe in PvP, you either bring Eviscerate, or don't use an axe. Many people will tell you this and there is NO OTHER SKILL the axe has that can make up for it. Sadly, you just have to accept it as a fact, not opinion...

If you're a hammer type pvp, you bring Devastating Hammer, or don't use a hammer. Again, same explanation as above, it's the lowest costing adrenaline skill a hammer can use that doesn't drain all adrenaline on the knockdown... No other hammer elite comes close... Or 2ndary/primary elite for that matter...

Now for all you SWORD lovers out there, you have a TON of options to work with. You don't need to worry about a spike, though conditional, Final Thrust can REALLY put the hurt on, despite the 10a. lose all a. condition + 50% or less hp, blah blah, but that's all the blam a sword user will need.

If you want flexibility/utility/more options, then Sword is the weapon for you! If you want proven damage/etc, then Axe/Hammer would be better...

sh4ft3d

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

A long time ago, in a galaxy far far away...

Frank Ought To Monk [FotM]

31 Mar 2006 at 18:10 - 8

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murder In China

Battle Rage[E] works well with a Sword user never with a hammer or axe. I thought that Battle Rage was almost always an axe stance? Am I wrong? Final Thrust just doesnt combo well with Battle Rage.

Yukito Kunisaki

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2005

Chicago, IL

W/N

31 Mar 2006 at 19:22 - 9

Quote:

Originally Posted by sh4ft3d

I thought that Battle Rage was almost always an axe stance? Am I wrong? Final Thrust just doesnt combo well with Battle Rage. An Axe user with Battle Rage can't Spike, or rather, do a spike worth damage, and is therefore, less of a threat...

You want to do something worthwhile on the battlefield? You either Eviscerate or use another weapon lol...

lzlz

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

LA, CA

R/W

31 Mar 2006 at 20:44 - 10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

An Axe user with Battle Rage can't Spike, or rather, do a spike worth damage, and is therefore, less of a threat...

You want to do something worthwhile on the battlefield? You either Eviscerate or use another weapon lol... And we got a hardcore AXE lover here. I hope I didn't kill your character in TA/RA with any one of my 8 characters.

A player who relies heavily on one single attack skill is like putting yourself to death undefinitely. A simple disruption/interupt skill can shut you off completely and make you like a lamer who can only spike the air.

By the way, a build with only two attack skills is surely not enough in the current TA/RA situation, unless you meet a lame team who doesn't even know what they are doing --- "Are we doing mission? I brought my axe and Eviscerta! RAWR!"

P.S. a hammer warrior with proper build and knockdown skill will own an axe warrior in no time. Most likely you just find yourself jumping up and down on the ground. I hope you did press your Frenzy as well to feel what is "deadly" Critical Damage x 2.

a sword warrior can just bring one single counter skill --- Riposite. Oh yea, 4 adrenaline for 68 damage (12 tactics). I hope you did hit me hard with Eviscerta. Oh yea, baby! Don't forget to spike me hard with Frenzy. I'm not good at math. What is the damage? 68 x 2 = 136? Not too much, not too much. "Eviscerta {E} still pwns!".......

OMG LOL XD

Savio

Teenager with attitude

Join Date: Jul 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

31 Mar 2006 at 21:44 - 11

Quote:

Originally Posted by lzlz

And we got a hardcore AXE lover here.

No, what Yukito is saying, what all of us say really, is that without Eviscerate there's no point in using axe. An Axe Warrior's greatest strength is Eviscerate.
Quote: A player who relies heavily on one single attack skill is like putting yourself to death undefinitely. So what do you rely on then? Defensive stances?
Quote: A simple disruption/interupt skill can shut you off completely and make you like a lamer who can only spike the air. A simple disruption/interupt skill screws over quite a few people, actually.

Quote:

By the way, a build with only two attack skills is surely not enough in the current TA/RA situation, unless you meet a lame team who doesn't even know what they are doing --- "Are we doing mission? I brought my axe and Eviscerta! RAWR!" Eviscerate-Executioner's Strike does 200-300 damage on its own. With an IAS that's in the space of a second. And then you have two extra slots for other attack or utility skills.
By the way, in the current RA situation you wouldn't bring a Warrior if you wanted to be most effective. No guaranteed support for the Warrior = sucky Warrior.

Quote:

P.S. a hammer warrior with proper build and knockdown skill will own an axe warrior in no time. P.S. a Mesmer with proper build will own any Warrior in no time. That doesn't mean Mesmer>Warrior, or hammer>axe.

Quote:

a sword warrior can just bring one single counter skill --- Riposite. Oh yea, 4 adrenaline for 68 damage (12 tactics). I hope you did hit me hard with Eviscerta. You're assuming two things:
1. That a Warrior is attacking another Warrior. Happens in RA but shouldn't be taken for granted.
2. That Riposte is used just before Eviscerate is. Unless you have prescient powers that allow you to predict when the other person is going to Eviscerate-Executioner's Strike you, Riposte is hardly the end-all skill to Eviscerate or to any other skill.

holden

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2005

[NICE]

Mo/

31 Mar 2006 at 22:02 - 12

Quote:

Originally Posted by lzlz

a sword warrior can just bring one single counter skill --- Riposite. Oh yea, 4 adrenaline for 68 damage (12 tactics). I hope you did hit me hard with Eviscerta. Oh yea, baby! Don't forget to spike me hard with Frenzy. I'm not good at math. What is the damage? 68 x 2 = 136? Not too much, not too much. "Eviscerta {E} still pwns!".......

OMG LOL XD

what are you talking about lz? are you halfass saying riposte is a better skill than eviscerate?

lzlz

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

LA, CA

R/W

01 Apr 2006 at 04:12 - 13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

No, what Yukito is saying, what all of us say really, is that without Eviscerate there's no point in using axe. An Axe Warrior's greatest strength is Eviscerate.

It seems everyone has a problem in reading. What is the original question by the thread starter?

And what Yukito implying is that it seems Axe+Eviscerta is the only choice you could possibly use as an effective warrior in game ever, putting his personal obsession into something that You and Him regarded as "facts". Of course there is no point to use an axe without Eviscerta. Without "Eviscerta", I think Axe may be the least used melee weapon in game. Without "Eviscerta", Axe does not even worth for your obsession

Quote:

So what do you rely on then? Defensive stances?

Why would I use Defensive Stance? Did I mention it? Or you assume that I use it? I said you should NOT rely one single attack skill as a core of your build. Your build only has Eviscerta + Executioner Strike. There is NO WAY you could make 300 damage even on AL 60. Please show me numbers and screenshots to prove it (as You and Him always emphasize on the so-called statistics)

Quote:

A simple disruption/interupt skill screws over quite a few people, actually.

Yes, but since you only have two attack skill (both need 8 adrenaline) and Eviscerta is Your almighty skill to deliver the "300 damage", you will be the one who is screwed really bad if your "Eviscerta" is being interupted or shut down. You have to wait for 20 seconds or more, or you need to build up your 8 adrenaline again. So is it effective?

Quote:

P.S. a Mesmer with proper build will own any Warrior in no time. That doesn't mean Mesmer>Warrior, or hammer>axe. And does it related to another class? You and Yukito have a fallacy problem in argument, bringing irrelevant substances to support for something that is untrue. It is like you are arguing that "All dogs are mammal. So all mammal are dogs".

Quote:

Eviscerate-Executioner's Strike does 200-300 damage on its own. With an IAS that's in the space of a second. And then you have two extra slots for other attack or utility skills.
By the way, in the current RA situation you wouldn't bring a Warrior if you wanted to be most effective. No guaranteed support for the Warrior = sucky Warrior. The original poster is asking for a build in RA, not what you are assuming as in GVG (please open your eyes), and you seem to have knowing it too (see your own post you have mentioned it is for RA too). In RA, it is most likely a warrior will attack another warrior. It is because sometimes maybe the whole opponent team are warriors. Or sometimes, there are always players who are not as "pro" as you do and they won't care anything but attack warriors first just to prove that they are "stronger". Some will just chase a monk or mesmer all around the map until they realize their whole team is dead already "rez please!!". There are all other new players who did stupid things in RA, EVEN in GVG. So I cannot see the point that a warrior will not be attacked by another warrior. This is just a stupid and unrealistic assumption, especially for RA.

Quote:

You're assuming two things:
1. That a Warrior is attacking another Warrior. Happens in RA but shouldn't be taken for granted.
2. That Riposte is used just before Eviscerate is. Unless you have prescient powers that allow you to predict when the other person is going to Eviscerate-Executioner's Strike you, Riposte is hardly the end-all skill to Eviscerate or to any other skill. You have a problem. You are assuming that eveyone or evey single "pro" players in this game THINK like exactly the same as you. It is not true. The top 50 guilds have a huge variety of team formations and there are many guilds which only use hammer/sword warriors. Of course there are many guilds which only use axe warriors too. You can even find IWAY them too (that's hilarious). Most probably you will see the highest presence of axe warriors in HoH.

No, but Yukito were asking me another melee skill which does a damage same or better than Eviscerta. And Riposite is indeed a skill which is much more effective and powerful than Eviscerta. If you are talking about the condition to use the skill (which is being attacked by melee), then there is also a condition for Eviscerta (which is to use 8 adrenaline and provided that the person is not blocking/evading your attack). And as I have said many times, this is for RA. "Please show me the numbers and statistics" for the probability that a warrior will not get hit by another warrior in RA/TA.

lzlz

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

LA, CA

R/W

01 Apr 2006 at 04:17 - 14

Quote:

Originally Posted by holden

what are you talking about lz? are you halfass saying riposte is a better skill than eviscerate? I never say a skill is better than other. There is NOT one single skill indefinitely better than others. Each skill has its use and utility and can be effective if combined with other skills and build. It is all because you guys have bias and extreme obsession on axe/Eviscerta and only you guys will ever say something like "Axe/Eviscerta is the best weapon/skill you can ever use in game"

It depends on the situation. If an axe warrior is attacking a sword warrior with riposte, the axe warrior will get owned if he keeps attacking the sword warrior. The faster you attack, the quicker you die. This always happens in RA/TA.

romeo_longsword

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2006

United Kingdom - London, China - Hong Kong

01 Apr 2006 at 04:37 - 15

Quote:

Originally Posted by lzlz

A player who relies heavily on one single attack skill is like putting yourself to death undefinitely. A simple disruption/interupt skill can shut you off completely and make you like a lamer who can only spike the air.
What do you recommand for a good axe player to depend on inorder to be effective while under a simple disruption/interupt skill?

Axe rocks.

lzlz

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

LA, CA

R/W

01 Apr 2006 at 04:45 - 16

Quote:

Originally Posted by romeo_longsword

What do you recommand for a good axe player to depend on inorder to be effective while under a simple disruption/interupt skill?

Axe rocks. Simple - bring one more attack skill, or bring skills which can help you from being interupted

Yea, axe rocks. Good for you. Who's gonna be next to say it?
I have several sets of armor w/runes for using different weapons. I do have a perfect Chaos Axe customized. But I rarely use it. I never disregard the effectiveness of a weapon. But when I see people confessing that one weapon > another weapon based on their stupidity, ignorance, and so-called "statistics", I will just shut their mouth off.

Byron

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

USA: liberating you since 1918.

01 Apr 2006 at 07:11 - 17

Savio

Teenager with attitude

Join Date: Jul 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

01 Apr 2006 at 07:43 - 18

Quote:

Originally Posted by lzlz

It seems everyone has a problem in reading. What is the original question by the thread starter?

There isn't one. The original poster was just sharing their RA build. I chose to share my own.

Quote:

And what Yukito implying is that it seems Axe+Eviscerta is the only choice you could possibly use as an effective warrior in game ever,

Actually, he said that Eviscerate is the only option for Axes. As the rest of us here play Warriors of varying weaponry (I play Swords and Axes, stopped playing Hammer months ago) we know there are other effective options. All I see the rest of us saying is either go Eviscerate or switch weapons. Quote any of us where we say differently.

Quote:

Your build only has Eviscerta + Executioner Strike.

If you read my build, you'd realize there are only 6 skills. Those 6 are the core of my build. I usually put in one other attack skill and a knockdown skill/attack. Disrupting Chop and Bull's Strike are the ones I'm currently playing around with, as runners and Res Sig are two quite prevalent occurences in RA.

Quote:

There is NO WAY you could make 300 damage even on AL 60. Please show me numbers and screenshots to prove it (as You and Him always emphasize on the so-called statistics)

Say target is running directly away from you (a rather bad move, as they should be strafing), which means that if you hit their backside while running, you get a critical. That's 63 damage with a max axe at 16 Axe Mastery. With any points in Strength, you'd be doing even more damage. Eviscerate and Executioner's Strike both do +42 damage, so each hit is 105 damage. Then the Deep Wound effect of Eviscerate reduces both max health and current health by 20%, at a maximum of 100 health. Against a base 480 health, that's 95 health. 105 + 105 + 95 = 305 damage.

Deep Wound is the deadliest condition, and the Warrior's ability to inflict that with any weapon is one of the reasons they are so powerful. The only other class that is capable of inflicting it is a Mesmer. Eviscerate, Gash, Crushing Blow... these are skills you shouldn't go without for an attacking Warror.

Quote:

Yes, but since you only have two attack skill (both need 8 adrenaline) Final Thrust is 10, Gash 7, Backbreaker 10, Devastating Hammer 7. The more powerful Elites obviously cost more for balancing reasons. I don't see an issue here.

Quote: and Eviscerta is Your almighty skill to deliver the "300 damage", you will be the one who is screwed really bad if your "Eviscerta" is being interupted or shut down. You have to wait for 20 seconds or more, or you need to build up your 8 adrenaline again. So is it effective? So, by your logic, if you have any skill that isn't a stance or shout, it's ineffective because it can be disrupted. Sorry, I'm not buying that. What if a necro's SS is interrupted? Energy Drain? A Res Sig? Do you toss them out because there's a chance that they might be interrupted? Those all are slower and more distinctive than Eviscerate, which under an IAS has a 8/9 second swing time. SS is 2 seconds, Energy Drain 1 second (faster with a primary Mes), Res Sig 3 seconds. As far as I've seen in RA, Eviscerate gets off easily, but try a Res Sig around a Ranger and you're begging to waste 3 seconds of your time. I'm still bringing Res Sig and Eviscerate, or whatever else I feel like bringing.

Quote: And does it related to another class? You and Yukito have a fallacy problem in argument, bringing irrelevant substances to support for something that is untrue. It is like you are arguing that "All dogs are mammal. So all mammal are dogs". What does hammer have to do with axe? About the same as Mesmer has to do with Warrior. That is, there is no "better" profession or "better" weapon. You, who say we foam at the mouth over axes when we don't, attempt to say that hammers are better than axes just because a hammer warrior can knocklock an axe warrior. Talk about non-sequiturs.

Quote: The original poster is asking for a build in RA No, the OP just posted their build, and I posted my own. Don't see where you are getting a question from.

Quote: not what you are assuming as in GVG (please open your eyes) "My base RA build W/:" (me)
"Res Sig - They decide many battles in RA." (me)
"Still usable in RA though." (Seef II)
"By the way, in the current RA situation" (me)
"Happens in RA" (me)
I don't see where any of us talk about GvG, at best Yukito refers to it as PvP, but he plays Arenas enough to understand exactly what to face. I mainly play Arenas anyway, so I couldn't completely describe the standard GvG warrior right now.

Quote:

So I cannot see the point that a warrior will not be attacked by another warrior. This is just a stupid and unrealistic assumption, especially for RA. Let's take your reasons for one Warrior attacking another Warrior in RA:

Quote:

It is because sometimes maybe the whole opponent team are warriors. How do you plan to take down a Warrior that has Gladiator's Defense, Riposte, Healing Hands, Healing Breeze, or some other "tanking" skills? It's not by bringing defensive skills yourself.

Quote:

Or sometimes, there are always players who are not as "pro" as you do and they won't care anything but attack warriors first just to prove that they are "stronger". Then what? Do you think they'll beat you down then? They're doing even less than the Warrior chasing that Monk or Mesmer around the map (and really, the Warrior should have a speed boost and/or snare, especially in RA where there are plenty of runners.)

You don't plan for the non-threats: the tanks, the Warriors who don't have their priorities straight. You plan for the major threats, like the ones I listed above, minus the cracks I made about Paladins.

Quote:

You have a problem. You are assuming that eveyone or evey single "pro" players in this game THINK like exactly the same as you. And you have a problem because you keep thinking we're all diehard axe Warriors, which is completely wrong.

Quote:

The top 50 guilds have a huge variety of team formations and there are many guilds which only use hammer/sword warriors. Now who's trying to compare this to GvG? At any rate, swords are used quite often in GvG because of the value of "Charge!" there, which doesn't quite have the same impact in RA. Hammers, however, are quite renowned in Arenas for being able to knocklock and eliminate a target in RA because of the lack of support you find in 8v8 battles.

No, but Yukito were asking me another melee skill which does a damage same or better than Eviscerta. [/quote]
Riposte isn't melee, it's counter-melee. It requires someone to hit you in melee. Rangers, except for bunnythumpers, don't hit you in melee. Mesmers don't, except for IW, and IW damage still goes through Riposte. Eles, Monks, and Necros definitely don't. So you have a counter versus roughly a sixth of the classes, and even then many Warriors will just switch to someone else once they see the damage from Riposte float up. So now you have a skill that counters those that either don't have a more important target to hit, in which case they'll hit you regardless of riposte, or those that are attack you because they're inexperienced, in which case you've already won.

Quote:

If you are talking about the condition to use the skill (which is being attacked by melee), then there is also a condition for Eviscerta (which is to use 8 adrenaline and provided that the person is not blocking/evading your attack). You conveniently forget Riposte's "conditon" of 4 adrenaline, and that it requires someone to hit you in melee. Riposte counters one specific class, while Eviscerate hits all 6 classes quite well. It's not like RA is severely flooded with Warriors; while they are a bit more popular there than other classes, you still have a large number of the other classes showing up to pummel you. And Riposte won't save you from that. Go post your effective RA build, if you so care to grace us with it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

lzlz

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

LA, CA

R/W

01 Apr 2006 at 22:52 - 19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

There isn't one. The original poster was just sharing their RA build. I chose to share my own.

When he posts a build here, is he asking everyone to read, think, and comment it? Or is there a point of posting it in forum? Simple logic.

Quote:

Then why Eviscerate is the only option for Axes? Just because it has the highest potential for spike? Why Axe warriors cannot play a role like a sword warrior to bring "charge" and play as a split squads? You are assuming that Axe will do the highest damage no matter what, and you are assuming that all Axe warriors must be a spiker, but nothing else. So it is like you can either be an axe-spiker or use another weapon? So is it that other classes also has a "forumla" and "restrictions" that you must use a specific skill/weapon?

When you say this, you are assuming that Axe warrior actually has the most limited flexibility of game play. And you are assuming that only the build you've listed is the most effective. Then show me the numbers and statics that an Eviscerate-Axe warrior can be the ONLY OPTION ever for Axe warriors.

Quote:

The other skills are either interupt or knock down skill. They are not attacking skills which fits in your aim as a spiker. The fighting environment for RA is 4 vs 4 tight battle. That means you won't have much space and time to extend or to get away from target. So what is the point of being a spiker with only two attack skills (which require 8 adrenaline each)?

Quote:

There are 6 assumptions for the damage you've described:
- You have 16 Axe Mastery + high strength (probably 11/12+)
- The target is running away from you and you do a critical hit
- You have your adrenalines charged up for both skills
- You keep chasing the target (even you are over-tended from your teammates)
- The target has 480 health or more
- You can hit your target twice in a row before they got healed/they interupt you/you got blinded/you got knocked down/you got crippling/and more...

I doubt the probability and effectiveness under these assumptions.

Talking these assumptions, let me show you the damage of the sword skills:
- Sever Artery (4 degeneration x 26 seconds = 104 damage)
- Gash (55 critical hit +21 damage + deep wound = 55 + 21 + 96 = 172
- Final Thrust = 55 + 43 = 98 (or 55 x 2 + 43 = 153)
Total = 374 (or 429 if the target's health is below 50%)

Quote:

Deep Wound is the deadliest condition, and the Warrior's ability to inflict that with any weapon is one of the reasons they are so powerful. The only other class that is capable of inflicting it is a Mesmer. Eviscerate, Gash, Crushing Blow... these are skills you shouldn't go without for an attacking Warror.

Why it is the deadliest condition? Because it does -20% of the maximum health? How many times you die because you got poisoned, crippling, blinded, disease or more? There is NO "dealiest" thing in this game. Any condition/skill that can effectively kill you is "deadly" already.

In RA, battles are usually short and tight. Time is critical and you have to kill fast, especially you may not have a monk to heal you. I cannot see anything you can do if you are blinded. Or if a ranger keeps crippling you and giving you poison. What can you do? Keep running and use Healing Signet? Oh wait, you said you have high strength. Then how many tactics do you have? 9? So it is like +107 health?

The reason why I keep arguing with you guys is that you guys assume everything you said = 100% facts / 100% correct / 100% works / 100% accepted by all "pro" players. So are you the game designer of GW?

Everything you thought/said is all based on your personal experience. Then why your experience is something more worthy and is something that is more true than others? Who are you? Savio? Who is it?

I never said what I said is right. See your intention for argument is to prove what you said is absolutely correct, while what I'm arguing is that what you said may not be absolutely correct.

Quote:

Final Thrust is 10, Gash 7, Backbreaker 10, Devastating Hammer 7. The more powerful Elites obviously cost more for balancing reasons. I don't see an issue here.

There is not an issue of course. But it just shows that it may not be effective as a spiker under a time critical situation (i.e. RA/TA).

In balanced GVG group, you will have well communication with your guildmates, and you usually have much more time/space to engage in multiple fights. You can hit warriors nearby to charge up adrenaline and then spike the low AL casters.

But in RA/TA, you may not have enough opportunities to charge up your adrenalines fast in order to spike. You cannot even use Frenzy frequently since you will be an easy target by most casters (who will constantly cast spell/hexes/conditions/interupt) or even warriors most of the time.

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So, by your logic, if you have any skill that isn't a stance or shout, it's ineffective because it can be disrupted. Sorry, I'm not buying that. What if a necro's SS is interrupted? Energy Drain? A Res Sig? Do you toss them out because there's a chance that they might be interrupted? Those all are slower and more distinctive than Eviscerate, which under an IAS has a 8/9 second swing time. SS is 2 seconds, Energy Drain 1 second (faster with a primary Mes), Res Sig 3 seconds. As far as I've seen in RA, Eviscerate gets off easily, but try a Res Sig around a Ranger and you're begging to waste 3 seconds of your time. I'm still bringing Res Sig and Eviscerate, or whatever else I feel like bringing.

No, did I say that a skill is NOT effective if it is not a shout/stance? You have poor logic in thinking and interpretion. I said your build may not be effective because it only has two attack skills which both require 8 adrenalines. The "effectiveness" refers to how a skill contributes to the aim of your build, in this case, which is as a spiker.

There are many other skills which are extremely useful and effective. I will say Rez Signet is something which has very high effectiveness in RA/TA battles. And Rez Signet is effective no matter what build you are using.

Quote: What does hammer have to do with axe? About the same as Mesmer has to do with Warrior. That is, there is no "better" profession or "better" weapon. You, who say we foam at the mouth over axes when we don't, attempt to say that hammers are better than axes just because a hammer warrior can knocklock an axe warrior. Talk about non-sequiturs. Hammer/Sword/Axe are all melee weapons that only Warrior can have the maximum attribute points. They are related but not directly affecting each other as an individual build, but in a team formation. It all depends on one's personal preference and build.

I have mentioned a million times that no weapon is > another weapon. What I'm arguing is that you guys are valuing axe much higher than other weapons, or likewise, putting axe as the ultimate choice for a warrior. That is untrue.

Mesmer is definitely not related to Warrior. Why I mention mesmer? Read what you have written:
Quote: Originally Posted by Savio P.S. a Mesmer with proper build will own any Warrior in no time. That doesn't mean Mesmer>Warrior, or hammer>axe. And see what I said:
Quote: Originally Posted by lzlz And does it related to another class? You and Yukito have a fallacy problem in argument, bringing irrelevant substances to support for something that is untrue. It is like you are arguing that "All dogs are mammal. So all mammal are dogs". Are you supporting my own argument? Or you are putting what you have said (which is wrong) as something originated by me? OMG, that's pathetic.

You not only have poor logic, but also poor memory. I was arguing that it has nothing to do with mesmer (since you said that). And now you are just showing that you agree with what I've said.

Quote: No, the OP just posted their build, and I posted my own. Don't see where you are getting a question from. I believe most people who post a build here are asking for comments and opinions. Maybe they just want to show off and do not ask for any comments?

Quote: "My base RA build W/:" (me)
"Res Sig - They decide many battles in RA." (me)
"Still usable in RA though." (Seef II)
"By the way, in the current RA situation" (me)
"Happens in RA" (me)
I don't see where any of us talk about GvG, at best Yukito refers to it as PvP, but he plays Arenas enough to understand exactly what to face. I mainly play Arenas anyway, so I couldn't completely describe the standard GvG warrior right now. Yes, and see what I have said:
Quote: Originally Posted by lzlz The original poster is asking for a build in RA, not what you are assuming as in GVG (please open your eyes), and you seem to have knowing it too (see your own post you have mentioned it is for RA too). Only losers will partially quote what others said.

I know you are talking about RA. But you seems to throw in situations that you will only encounter in GVG in a build that you so-called for RA only.

From your previous posts, you assume that a Warrior will not attack another warrior in GVG. But it is untrue in RA/TA. And that is what I'm arguing for. Thanks for reminding yourself that you are talking about the PVP in RA/TA. So do I.

Quote:

Let's take your reasons for one Warrior attacking another Warrior in RA: See what I've said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by lzlz

In RA, it is most likely a warrior will attack another warrior. It is because sometimes maybe the whole opponent team are warriors. Or sometimes, there are always players who are not as "pro" as you do and they won't care anything but attack warriors first just to prove that they are "stronger". Some will just chase a monk or mesmer all around the map until they realize their whole team is dead already "rez please!!". There are all other new players who did stupid things in RA, EVEN in GVG. So I cannot see the point that a warrior will not be attacked by another warrior. This is just a stupid and unrealistic assumption, especially for RA. I hope I have already answered your question in my previous post.

Quote:

How do you plan to take down a Warrior that has Gladiator's Defense, Riposte, Healing Hands, Healing Breeze, or some other "tanking" skills? It's not by bringing defensive skills yourself. So that means you won't attack a tank warrior for once even until all other 3 opponents died? What if only you and that warrior survive at last in the battle? Yes, definitely a tank warrior will be tough to 1 on 1 with. But isn't that "Eviscerate+Axe" = the "most deadliest" build ever for warrior? Do I miss something? Or what you said is wrong???

Quote:

Then what? Do you think they'll beat you down then? They're doing even less than the Warrior chasing that Monk or Mesmer around the map (and really, the Warrior should have a speed boost and/or snare, especially in RA where there are plenty of runners.) Yes, they like running or they will just stand, taking all damage and think they are "god". So? You STILL won't attack him/her just because you are the superior "pro" players who will stick to the ultimate true theory --- "A Warrior will never attack another Warrior no matter what". Good for you, huh?

Quote:

You don't plan for the non-threats: the tanks, the Warriors who don't have their priorities straight. You plan for the major threats, like the ones I listed above, minus the cracks I made about Paladins. Truly they are not a threat for damage. But are you a threat to them too?? Yes, "Warriors who don't have their priorities straight." (This is again an assumption for GVG. lol). So major threats = Monk and Mesmers, right? How do you spike them effectively with two skills while they are running around the map and a Paladin is chasing you at your back?

Oh wait, you have high strength. So you can heal your sufficiently? So you will have a monk with you FOR SURE, right? Nice. You are assuming an Axe-Eviscerate warrior is a all-rounded warrior who can tank + spike + never die even with hexes/conditions that you will encounter 90% of the time in RA/TA.

Quote:

And you have a problem because you keep thinking we're all diehard axe Warriors, which is completely wrong. Oh really, then why you can only see the Up side of an axe, but not the Down side of it? Is it a merely personal preference + ignorant assumptions + self-centerness? Sure you do "NOT" love axe. Yea, please tell me you are not using an axe + bulwark now.

Quote:

Now who's trying to compare this to GvG? At any rate, swords are used quite often in GvG because of the value of "Charge!" there, which doesn't quite have the same impact in RA. Hammers, however, are quite renowned in Arenas for being able to knocklock and eliminate a target in RA because of the lack of support you find in 8v8 battles. I am NOT comparing to GVG. I am just saying that you should not putting the situation in GVG (i.e. Warrior will not attack another Warrior) into RA/TA.

Yes, "Charge" is a valuable skill in GVG. But is it an excuse that a sword warrior MUST equip "Charge" or an axe warrior will not equip "Charge" for sure?

Quote:

Riposte isn't melee, it's counter-melee. It requires someone to hit you in melee. Rangers, except for bunnythumpers, don't hit you in melee. Mesmers don't, except for IW, and IW damage still goes through Riposte. Eles, Monks, and Necros definitely don't. So you have a counter versus roughly a sixth of the classes, and even then many Warriors will just switch to someone else once they see the damage from Riposte float up. So now you have a skill that counters those that either don't have a more important target to hit, in which case they'll hit you regardless of riposte, or those that are attack you because they're inexperienced, in which case you've already won. Why you are sure that you must have already won if they attack you first? What kind of facts of numbers does your assumption base on? Merely because you are a "pro" player in game and all "noobs" will be no match with you? Is it a pathetic heroism for a team-playing game?

Riposte is counter melee. But it is an extremely useful skill which gives a credit for sword (because only sword can use this skill and no other axe skills give similar or even close effect). For a 4 adrenaline cost to give up to 89 damage, it is truly an effective skill for RA/TA battles, as compared to Eviscerate. For one Eviscerate charged up, I can use Riposte twice, and I didn't even count the chance that I can block your Eviscerta or Executioner's Chop.

Quote:

You conveniently forget Riposte's "conditon" of 4 adrenaline, and that it requires someone to hit you in melee. Riposte counters one specific class, while Eviscerate hits all 6 classes quite well. It's not like RA is severely flooded with Warriors; while they are a bit more popular there than other classes, you still have a large number of the other classes showing up to pummel you. And Riposte won't save you from that. Go post your effective RA build, if you so care to grace us with it. Yes, of course. Please be reminded that I never treat Riposte as part of the attack skills of a RA warrior build. It is just something which will greatly help you when you encounter melee users (especially IW Mesmer or other warriors). I never like to post my build in forum cuz I don't like people to follow me. What is the point for everyone being the same? But I will tell you that I will never use a build like yours simply because:
- It has low spiking potential (with 2 attack skills only and no counter-block or counter-evade skills)
- It does not have any efficient self-protecting skills to against most situations that you will frequently encounter: hexes, conditions, interupt/knockdown, block/evade, IW mesmer
- I never trust a person who doesn't show that he/she is worthy or has enough credibility

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

The idea of structuring a warrior around RA is pretty silly to me, since you cannot know what to expect. A blind puts you out of commission, and if you have no self-purges, then you are very effectively screwed. And that's only one example.

Why not practice for the big time? Not to toot my own horn, but:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s....php?t=3000023 What you are saying is extremely silly and ignorant. You are putting your own preference and assumption into other's freedom of gameplay. Why people are silly if they choose to PVP in RA/TA? So you are saying that GVG is the only worthy place that you should spend your time to PVP or even play this game?

That is bullshit. So should all those thousands of players in RA/TA move to GVG? Or should everyone just stops playing the Campaign and play GVG? What you are saying is completely pointless.

Everyone has their freedom to enjoy the game and play whatever they want. And RA/TA are places that you can have some fun or even practise how you will react in dealing with different situations.

You are absolutely right. Blinding will really shut you off. Then how will you deal with this situation? How will you manage to survive yourself? That's actually part of the fun in RA/TA. Many guilds actually train and practise in the TA. Even The Last Pride did it themselves too. Unless you are the World Championship, I see no point to disregard what they are doing.

SnipiousMax

Perfectly Elocuted

Join Date: Sep 2005

02 Apr 2006 at 00:12 - 20

I think you're not getting everyone's points Iziz.

Quote:

When he posts a build here, is he asking everyone to read, think, and comment it? Or is there a point of posting it in forum? Simple logic.

That's what Savio said, or rather pointed out. You were the one that misread the thread to begin with. He was never asking "What is a build for..." he was posting a build he uses, and Savio's initial post was a comment.

Quote:

Then show me the numbers and statics that an Eviscerate-Axe warrior can be the ONLY OPTION ever for Axe warriors.

He did. Point is, Warrior spikes are what kill players. Warriors are meant to kill players. Not take damage, not do energy denial, not cast spells. They are meant to kill a player. It is not enough to bring skills to last longer, if you are not making your opposition last less. Simple attacks will not be enough to kill a player, Spike attacks can catch someone in an akward position and result in death. So for an axe, the only real and usable option to spike with is Eviscerate. Swords use Charge, because the sword spike skill is not an elite.

Quote:

The point is you only need those two skills to make an effective spike. Sword user's really only need one. So I don't see the point your trying to make here. As for getting away, not sure why you would want to, but he does have sprint and heal sig. That's really all a warrior needs.

Quote:

Um your numbers for the sword aren't really accurate for the point you're trying to make here. The number's Savio gave happen in two attacks, it's very unlikely they'll get a heal in between two attacks. Your's on the other hand include damage from degen, which is VERY easily countered. So you can pretty much take out the damage done by Sever, cause it's not really part of the spike.

Quote:

1/5 of your health gone, not counting damage done by the attack or damage bonuses. One fifth. Even if you were to be healed right then by a monk. You are still down 1/5 of your health. Poison, Bleeding, Fire, etc, are all easily countered because the damage doesn't all happen at once. Don't get me wrong, the are great to apply pressure on the healers, but degen doesn't kill players. Cripple, Blind, daze, etc. All great, but the of themselves will not kill a player. Losing 1/5 of your health in addtion to a monster spike will kill you.

Quote:

The reason why I keep arguing with you guys is that you guys assume everything you said = 100% facts / 100% correct / 100% works / 100% accepted by all "pro" players. So are you the game designer of GW?

Everything you thought/said is all based on your personal experience. Then why your experience is something more worthy and is something that is more true than others? Who are you? Savio? Who is it?

I never said what I said is right. See your intention for argument is to prove what you said is absolutely correct, while what I'm arguing is that what you said may not be absolutely correct.

Unfortunately, they are facts. What is a fact but a generally accepted and proven theory? Eviscerate works perfectly. The point of an Axe build is to use it. Not opinion, fact.

Quote:

Quote:

I have mentioned a million times that no weapon is > another weapon. What I'm arguing is that you guys are valuing axe much higher than other weapons, or likewise, putting axe as the ultimate choice for a warrior. That is untrue. I'd go through and point out the number of times Savio said that no weapon is better than another, but it'd just waste time as you're either not understanding or listening. WE ARE NOT SAYING THAT AXE IS GREATER THAN SWORD. What we've been arguing is that Axe build w/Eviscerate > Axe build w/o Eviscerate for PvP. That is the basis of this arguement, and as you're arguing the wrong point, you'd do well to re-read the thread.

Quote:

I believe most people who post a build here are asking for comments and opinions. Maybe they just want to show off and do not ask for any comments? Again, no one is saying that it's not that way, why are you bringing it up?

Quote:

So that means you won't attack a tank warrior for once even until all other 3 opponents died? What if only you and that warrior survive at last in the battle? Yes, definitely a tank warrior will be tough to 1 on 1 with. But isn't that "Eviscerate+Axe" = the "most deadliest" build ever for warrior? Do I miss something? Or what you said is wrong??? A tank will not be able to kill you as you able to kill it. And why the heck would it be one on one. Do you really know how often that happens? Or if it did happen, what the chances would be that you DIDN'T have a res Sig. Only a fool would try and fight a one on one battle if he didn't have too. It's just not something you see. As it is a extremely rare case, it too can be removed from consideration.

Quote:

I am NOT comparing to GVG. I am just saying that you should not putting the situation in GVG (i.e. Warrior will not attack another Warrior) into RA/TA.

Yes, "Charge" is a valuable skill in GVG. But is it an excuse that a sword warrior MUST equip "Charge" or an axe warrior will not equip "Charge" for sure? Okay, you do not attack the warrior first. You don't ever attack a warrior while there is another target avalible. Again, do you know how often you get an ALL warrior team? Another very Rare instance.

Charge = Elite

Eviscerate = Elite

Axe Spike Build = Eviscearte

Axe spike build cannot have Charge.

That's why.

Quote:

What you are saying is extremely silly and ignorant. You are putting your own preference and assumption into other's freedom of gameplay. Why people are silly if they choose to PVP in RA/TA? So you are saying that GVG is the only worthy place that you should spend your time to PVP or even play this game?

That is bullshit. So should all those thousands of players in RA/TA move to GVG? Or should everyone just stops playing the Campaign and play GVG? What you are saying is completely pointless.

Everyone has their freedom to enjoy the game and play whatever they want. And RA/TA are places that you can have some fun or even practise how you will react in dealing with different situations. You missed Byron's point entirely. You weren't even close. It's like he said something, and you were reading a different post when you did your response. In fact, what he said is closer to your own arguements.

lzlz

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

LA, CA

R/W

02 Apr 2006 at 01:12 - 21

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnipiousMax

I think you're not getting everyone's points Iziz.

I think you are not quite getting my points, SnipiousMax. Read as follows:

Quote:

Then what is the issue? Mine is also a comment to Savio's build. Is there any conflict?

Quote:

"Warrior spikes" are meant to kill players. But it is wrong to say "warriors are meant to kill players". In many team formation, warriors are used to take damage, assist other players, or even to capture the flag tower. It all depends. And by playing a competitive match, everyone in the team is meant to eliminate the opponents and win. What's your point here?

YES, as you have said "Simple attacks will not be enough to kill a player". Did I say it is WRONG to bring Eviscerate+Executioner? Did I? Can you point it out? My comment to Savio's build is that I think two attack skills are not enough as a spiker. Did you actually get it? or even close?

YES, of course without Eviscerate, Axe cannot really spike hard. But did you read properly what I've argued? I was asking why an Axe warrior must be a spiker, and hence choose Eviscerate but nothing else. Why there can't be any other build for Axe warrior?

Quote:

The point is that you only need those two skills to make an effective spike. Sword user's really only need one. So I don't see the point your trying to make here. As for getting away, not sure why you would want to, but he does have sprint and heal sig. That's really all a warrior needs.

Oh really, so only those two skills can be an effective spike? How and Why? Any figures to support what you have said? How much damage you can possibly make before charging up to 8 adrenalines?

Oh, and sword users only need ONE skill to spike?? Are you kidding me? What is that? Final Thrust? LOL. Are you okay?

Quote:

It's unlikely they'll get a heal in between two attacks? Nice, now you have ONE EXTRA assumption to my original 6 assumptions (now there are 9). So you still assume that:
1) You have 16 Axe Mastery + high strength (probably 11/12+)
2) The target is running away from you and you do a critical hit
3) You have your adrenalines charged up for both skills
4) You keep chasing the target (even you are over-tended from your teammates)
5) The target has 480 health or more
6) You can hit your target twice in a row before they got healed/they interupt you/you got blinded/you got knocked down/you got crippling/and
more...
+ 7) Your Target foes is unlikely to get a heal between your two attacks
+ 8) Your Target foes does not have any running skills (+25% or even +33% moving speed)
+ 9) Your Target foes is not using a block/evade skill

Did you read Savio's post carefully? He is assuming the damage as TWO critical hits in a row. That means the target foe must be fleeing away from you and you keep chasing it until you can hit it twice. That means you have to chase -> hit -> chase -> hit. How much time does it need to catch up a foe and deliver two skills in a row?

Quote:

1/5 of health is gone. So? So that is the deadliest??? Sorry dude, deep wound is also a condition that can be removed. LMAO. Yes, conditions can be removed easily, IF you can do it by yourself, OR you have a promising monk in RA/TA, AND IF your monk can do the healing + remove condition at the same time. Normally, the monk will be the highest priority of target in PVP, right? (I hope you won't deny this). Then while your monk is being pressured, who will remove condition for you? Many conditions can be STACKED together. That means you can have poison + bleeding + disease + weakness at the same time. (it can be done easily by "Virulence"). I cannot see why these other conditions are not as "deadly" as deep wound. One single Burning condition will have 7 degeneration PER second. I cannot see why it is not "deadly".

Quote:

Unfortunately, they are facts. What is a fact but a generally accepted and proven theory? Eviscerate works perfectly. The point of an Axe build is to use it. Not opinion, fact.

Unforunately, they are not facts. How is it generally accepted? By a group of friends? How has the "theory" been proven? How did you experiment your "hypothesis" being getting a "theory", and how does it got proven? Show me how. Not just SUBJECTIVE comment and whining "It is fact. No opinion". This is totally ignorant and immature.

Quote:

You keep point out that Eviscerate and Ex. strike cost 8 hits each. Did you add up how much your sword spike would cost? And did you think to consider that he's using frenzy? MANY MANY warrior attacks/skills are based on adrenaline. Since it is something many many many many builds have in common, it needs to be eliminated from the converstation. It's not helping your case any.

Both cost 8 adrenalines each means both require 8 adrenalines charged up at the same time before you can USE ANY attack skill. Adrenalines are accumulated individually for each skill. By the time you have adrenalines, you can use one skill, and after that skill hit the foe successfully, you will be recharged instantly for the second skill. You truly think I am a noob? Huh?

Again, what I'm arguing is that the spike potential of Savio's build is low because you cannot use ANY attack skills before you have your first 8 adrenalines saved.

Quote:

I'd go through and point out the number of times Savio said that no weapon is better than another, but it'd just waste time as you're either not understanding or listening. WE ARE NOT SAYING THAT AXE IS GREATER THAN SWORD. What we've been arguing is that Axe build w/Eviscerate > Axe build w/o Eviscerate for PvP. That is the basis of this arguement, and as you're arguing the wrong point, you'd do well to re-read the thread. When I said "you guys", it is a general comment to people who replied my message, including you. Check Yutiko's previous posts in other threads. There are many comments like "Axe rocks" or similar comment.

Sorry, but we are NOT arguing that "Axe build w/Eviscerate > Axe build w/o Eviscerate for PvP". I guess you truly have a problem in reading + understanding + even listening. You better re-read all the posts + other threads that Savio and Yutiko have argued with me about Axe/Sword/Hammer. Do some research before shouting for non-sense, dude.

Quote:

Again, no one is saying that it's not that way, why are you bringing it up? So this is not a discussion forum? Did I go to a wrong place? Maybe they should add an option that "no replies required"? Or simply change this section to "Warrior's build Showcase"? LOL

Quote:

A tank will not be able to kill you as you able to kill it. And why the heck would it be one on one. Do you really know how often that happens? Or if it did happen, what the chances would be that you DIDN'T have a res Sig. Only a fool would try and fight a one on one battle if he didn't have too. It's just not something you see. As it is a extremely rare case, it too can be removed from consideration. Oh, did you read Savio's post? Let me quote it again:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

How do you plan to take down a Warrior that has Gladiator's Defense, Riposte, Healing Hands, Healing Breeze, or some other "tanking" skills? It's not by bringing defensive skills yourself. So are you sure you can kill a tank build with your TWO attack skills? The ultimate-true-fact-no-opinion-proven-theory "Evis+Exec" combo can surely outrage a Warrior with Glad Defense + Riposte + Healing Hands + Healing Breeze + some other "tanking" skills?

Man, I tell you what, by the time you have saved up 8 adrenalines, you are already dead. Don't LMAO.

Quote:

Okay, you do not attack the warrior first. You don't ever attack a warrior while there is another target avalible. Again, do you know how often you get an ALL warrior team? Another very Rare instance. DID YOU READ PROPERLY? Did you? Or you actually have a problem in reading?

Savio has the same point as you did -- that is -- "Warrior will not attack other warrior when other target is available". But is it really TRUE for the RA/TA scenario? Log in the game and bring your warrior to RA. Tell me the probability that your warrior is not getting hit by another warrior.

I quote my post for the THIRD TIME:
"In RA, it is most likely a warrior will attack another warrior. It is because sometimes maybe the whole opponent team are warriors. Or sometimes, there are always players who are not as "pro" as you do and they won't care anything but attack warriors first just to prove that they are "stronger". Some will just chase a monk or mesmer all around the map until they realize their whole team is dead already "rez please!!". There are all other new players who did stupid things in RA, EVEN in GVG. So I cannot see the point that a warrior will not be attacked by another warrior. This is just a stupid and unrealistic assumption, especially for RA."

Quote:

Charge = Elite

Eviscerate = Elite

Axe Spike Build = Eviscearte

Axe spike build cannot have Charge.

That's why. WHO SAID I am talking about Spike? DID YOU READ properly? My argument is that "Why axe must be a spiker?" "Why axe cannot be a utility build just like sword?". If you can have other build rather than the Evis-Exec combo, you can actually bring "Charge" just like sword warriors. Sword warriors give up their Weaponry Elite "Hundred Blades" simply because they think it may not be as useful as "Charge" do. So can a non-spike axe warrior bring "Charge" too?

Your stupidity makes me burst to laugh.

Quote:

You missed Byron's point entirely. You weren't even close. It's like he said something, and you were reading a different post when you did your response. In fact, what he said is closer to your own arguements. Are we reading the same post, the same language? Byron said it seems silly to him to structure a warrior around RA. It is because he thinks RA is so random that not a specific build will really work. That's true. But what we have here? Savio's build and Glitched's build. And what are we doing here? To discuss how those two builds actually work in RA. Truly RA is random, GVG/HoH can be random too.

There is not a single build which can counter all situations, no matter in GVG/HoH/RA/TA/PVE or whatever. So that's why people are posting their builds that they prefer here.

Can you see what your problem is?

lzlz

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

LA, CA

R/W

02 Apr 2006 at 01:30 - 22

edited post, reread.

Savio

Teenager with attitude

Join Date: Jul 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

02 Apr 2006 at 03:06 - 23

Covering the main points, ignoring the crap arguments like "Savio and Yukito posted 'we <3 axes' in other threads":

1. Warriors do not "support" the other classes; aside from the occasional Charge they are there to do damage, pure and simple. They don't heal, they don't remove hexes, they don't buff, they don't run flags. Well, they could do the 4 things just listed, but they'd do a terrible job.

2. Spiking consists of doing a gross amount of damage in a short period of time. Bleeding and other forms of DPS are not spiking. (Also, 1 arrow of health regen/degen is 2 health a second, not 1.)

3. I don't only bring 2 attack skills, just like I don't bring only 6 skills total. Evis and Exe go hand in hand, but they don't go alone. Read again.

4. Deep Wound is not meant to be a condition that stays on the target indefinitely. It's used to spike a target so he dies. If the spike fails and he's still alive, it doesn't matter much whether Deep Wound is still on him or not, as Deep Wound is a one-time effect, unlike Blind, Bleeding, or any other Condition. Even if it is removed, it just gets put back on the next time the Warrior spikes.

5. Any of the assumptions you make for Eviscerate-Executioner's Strike applies to Sever-Gash-Final or any other combo you make up. (It is also unrealistic to assume a 11-12 Strength; 9-10 is the standard.) So do the assumptions favor Evis or Final more? How about realistic conditions?

6. The only available spike options for Warriors are dependent on building up large amounts of adrenaline. Eviscerate, even at 8 strikes, is 2 strikes cheaper than Final Thrust or Backbreaker, and is only 1 more than Devastating or Gash. Not using other Adrenaline-based attack skills before the spike, or using them conservatively, is a problem with any Warrior.

sh4ft3d

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

A long time ago, in a galaxy far far away...

Frank Ought To Monk [FotM]

02 Apr 2006 at 04:20 - 24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

An Axe user with Battle Rage can't Spike, or rather, do a spike worth damage, and is therefore, less of a threat...

You want to do something worthwhile on the battlefield? You either Eviscerate or use another weapon lol... You can deal damage without spiking, and Battle Rage is an amzing increase in dps. It is possible to deal damage without Eviscerate. It is a great elite, but being able to crank out the amazing number of adrenal skill that Battle Rage can is VERY effective at pressuring. As Savio said, no IAS can crank out 50% more damage, but Battle Rage almost can if I am not mistaken.
EDIT: I am not claiming that BR is an IAS. Just clarifying.

lzlz

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

LA, CA

R/W

02 Apr 2006 at 04:33 - 25

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Originally Posted by Savio

1. Warriors do not "support" the other classes; aside from the occasional Charge they are there to do damage, pure and simple. They don't heal, they don't remove hexes, they don't buff, they don't run flags. Well, they could do the 4 things just listed, but they'd do a terrible job.

I think we may have different interpretation of the word "support". Being supportive in a team does NOT ONLY mean you have to heal others or remove hexes. Many players with Primary Warrior or Secondary Warrior profession will equip skills like "Charge", "Watch Yourself", and "Shield Up". If you have read all warrior skills carefully (especially the tactics section), you will realize that some skills are designed to be effective to both you and your allies. Anet did this on purpose so that it leaves a room for a warrior to be supportive in a group battle, but not only one single purpose as you assume -- just to spike but nothing else. Your assumption is that Warrior (esp Axe warrior) plays as an individual in PVP. They only aim to spike but nothing else. All other classes should "support" him so that he can be the "hero" of the match. I tell you what, watch how those top guilds utilize these skills to greatly improve their whole team's overall defense.

It is my first time to hear that Warriors will do a terrible job in capturing the flag tower. LOL. Alright, just stay in your own mind with everything you believe which is eternally right. Try to switch the observer's mode and see how those top guilds manage to get the flag tower with a warrior. And please tell me why a warrior will do a terrible job in capturing the flag tower? Maybe your guild will send a monk to do the flag job. LMAO. Take "The Last Pride" as example. their main flag capturer is "Last of Master" (a sword warrior W/E). EViL only has 8 members in their guild and "Last of Master" is mainly responsible for capturing the flag tower, especially in the 2 FINAL battles of the World Championship. Maybe you will say "oh, The Last Pride did a terrible job". Say this when you are the World Championship. I will wait for you. LOL

And excuse me, I only said three things for a warrior being a "supportive" role. They are: "take damage, assist other players, or even to capture the flag tower". I never said a Warrior can heal or remove hexes for other teammates. Again, please don't push what you've imagined into my mouth just because you have nothing to say.

Let us take a look on how you used the word "support" in Post #11:
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Originally Posted by Savio By the way, in the current RA situation you wouldn't bring a Warrior if you wanted to be most effective. No guaranteed support for the Warrior = sucky Warrior.

What do you mean by "support"? Oh, maybe it is another definition again. You always change your mind anyway.

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2. Spiking consists of doing a gross amount of damage in a short period of time. Bleeding and other forms of DPS are not spiking. (Also, 1 arrow of health regen/degen is 2 health a second, not 1.)

"Spiking consists of doing a gross amount of damage in a short period of time." Yes, so bleeding/poison/disease and other forms of conditions are NOT "damage"? And what does it mean by "short period of time"? Does the time you need to save up 8 adrenalines + using the two skills = short period of time? Is -8 degen (16 damage per second) considered as a "gross amount of damage in a short period of time"? ROFL

Thanks for correcting me that the health degen is -2 per second. So it means bleeding for 26 seconds will do a total of 26 x 4 x 2 = 208 damage if it is not removed instantly. Let's say you need 10 seconds to save up to 8 adrenalines and spike your two skills. For the 10 seconds of bleeding, the total damage is 10 x 4 x 2 = 80 damage, which is pretty decent. And do you actually know the essence for "conditions" in a battle? The constant degeneration is to give constant pressure and damage to your target foes. The target foes needs to use an extra skill (thus extra energy and extra time) to remove the condition away. And it is a good chance for the attacker to deliver even more damage to finish all the target. Also, degen conditions are effective in cancelling out any health regen skills or degrading the effectiveness of any healing skills.

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3. I don't only bring 2 attack skills, just like I don't bring only 6 skills total. Evis and Exe go hand in hand, but they don't go alone. Read again.

Yes, I did read very clearly. Of course I did not assume that you only bring 6 skills and then get slayed by others. lol I don't wanna recall all the spare skills you mentioned to put in the 2 blank slots. But all of them are NOT attack skills, or attack skills designed for spiking purpose.

Quoting YOUR definition again, "Spiking consists of doing a gross amount of damage in a short period of time." Which of the spare skills you have mentioned will fulfill this requirement? Plague Touch? Bull's Strike? or Wild Blow?? LOL

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4. Deep Wound is not meant to be a condition that stays on the target indefinitely. It's used to spike a target so he dies. If the spike fails and he's still alive, it doesn't matter much whether Deep Wound is still on him or not, as Deep Wound is a one-time effect, unlike Blind, Bleeding, or any other Condition. Even if it is removed, it just gets put back on the next time the Warrior spikes. WHEN did I say Deep wound is meant to be a condition that stays on the target indefinitely??? Please point it out. Again, don't push trash talk into my mouth.

You always saying things that favour my argument. Thank you.

Because SnipiousMax said Deep Wound is the "deadliest" condition ever in game, so I just tried to point out that it may not so. Many other conditions can be as "deadly" as Deep Wound, turning your favour for Eviscerate down.

If Deep Wound has been removed, then why it doesn't matter if it is still on the target foes or not?? When deep wound is removed, your max health is back to normal, same result to all other conditions when they are being removed.

By the way, Deep Wound will lower one's health by 20%, but it will not kill a player. Let's say when the target foe only has 75 health left, your deep wound condition can lower foe's max health by 96, but this condition will not kill the foe. The foe will stay as 1 health left until you deliver your last blow to finish it off (That's why you always see your target foes undead even their health bar shows as "empty"). Unlike other conditions such as bleeding/poison/disease/burning, the target foes will die instantly when their health is degenerated to 0.

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5. Any of the assumptions you make for Eviscerate-Executioner's Strike applies to Sever-Gash-Final or any other combo you make up. (It is also unrealistic to assume a 11-12 Strength; 9-10 is the standard.) So do the assumptions favor Evis or Final more? How about realistic conditions? I know it is unrealistic to assume a 11-12 strength build. Yes, 9-10 is generally accepted standard. It is what I use too. But you said you have HIGH strength. Did I read it wrong? So does HIGH mean something more than the average standard? Or in your own dictionary, HIGH = Standard?

And why is strength related to the Evis-Exec and the Sever-Gash-Final combos? Are they related?? Does Strength have anything to do with "Axe Mastery" and "Swordmanship"??? I doubt.

The Realistic condition is that your assumptions for delivering 300 damage by the two skills in a row is unrealistic. LOL

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6. The only available spike options for Warriors are dependent on building up large amounts of adrenaline. Eviscerate, even at 8 strikes, is 2 strikes cheaper than Final Thrust or Backbreaker, and is only 1 more than Devastating or Gash. Not using other Adrenaline-based attack skills before the spike, or using them conservatively, is a problem with any Warrior. Not really true. Many skills with high spiking potential actually consumes Energy, especially for Hammer skills.

I did not say any problem with the 8 adrenalines cost for Eviscerate. It is very reasonable for its damage and condition provided, especially it is an elite skill. Again, my argument is that Your build seems failing to achieve the purpose as to "spike".

Thanks for writing back, Savio. You made my day (April 1st - Fool's day) LOL

Savio

Teenager with attitude

Join Date: Jul 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

02 Apr 2006 at 04:38 - 26

Quote:

Originally Posted by sh4ft3d

As Savio said, no IAS can crank out 50% more damage, but Battle Rage almost can if I am not mistaken. The way the game mechanics work for swing time and IAS, 33% IAS is equal to 50% more attacks, which means 50% more damage and 50% more adrenaline. (4/3 second swing time * 2/3 = 8/9 second swing time) The main problems with Battle Rage is that it wipes Adrenaline every time you reuse it, you can't use it and an IAS at the same time, and you lose out on all the Elite attack skills. Who cares if you get adrenaline at twice the normal rate if all you're restricted to are Penetrating Blow, Executioner's Strike, and Dismember for spiking, and you can't even use them with an IAS? (Same with Hammer: what are you going to do without Devastating or Backbreaker?)

SnipiousMax

Perfectly Elocuted

Join Date: Sep 2005

02 Apr 2006 at 05:44 - 27

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Originally Posted by lzlz

I think you are not quite getting my points, SnipiousMax.

No I am, they're just weak points.

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Originally Posted by lzlz Then what is the issue? Mine is also a comment to Savio's build. Is there any conflict?

You should read what you were commenting on, you were just reaming Savio for the very thing you were doing.

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If you are using a Warrior for anything but killing stuff....you would be better off to play another class. How does 'taking damage' win? It doesn't. Dealing out more damage than dealt to you is winning. Spiking is what kills, not degen.

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Originally Posted by lzlz

YES, as you have said "Simple attacks will not be enough to kill a player". Did I say it is WRONG to bring Eviscerate+Executioner? Did I? Can you point it out? My comment to Savio's build is that I think two attack skills are not enough as a spiker. Did you actually get it? or even close?

You did. You've pointed out why you think eviscerate is a horrible skill many times. Even chuckling to yourself over our stupidity (I should count the number of lolz and roflz and lmao's to push this point but I won't). I did get it. Two skills leaves 6 blank slots. Two skills are spike based, the rest is your playground.

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Originally Posted by lzlz YES, of course without Eviscerate, Axe cannot really spike hard. But did you read properly what I've argued? I was asking why an Axe warrior must be a spiker, and hence choose Eviscerate but nothing else. Why there can't be any other build for Axe warrior?

An axe warrior cannot use Charge because his spike skill is Eviscerate which is an elite. Sure you can use charge as an axe warrior but that leaves you without the Evis+Exe combo, which makes you a subpar warrior. Sword Warriors CAN use charge because they don't require an elite to have an effective spike combo. That's been said more than once. If you don't have a way of dealing a huge amount of damage in a short time, you are not doing your job as a warrior.

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Oh really, so only those two skills can be an effective spike? How and Why? Any figures to support what you have said? How much damage you can possibly make before charging up to 8 adrenalines?

Alot, you're using frenzy, and other skills that don't require adrenaline. All warriors have to build up adrenaline, you keep bringing this up as proof why this combo sucks (even though you claim you're not saying that) and everytime we say the same thing. Having to build up adrenaline is something a warrior has to face, regardless of axe, sword or hammer.

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Oh, and sword users only need ONE skill to spike?? Are you kidding me? What is that? Final Thrust? LOL. Are you okay? Yes. Final thrust is the only 'Spike' skill they need. I didn't say its the only skill they're bringing. And yes, I'm fine.

Quote: It's unlikely they'll get a heal in between two attacks? Nice, now you have ONE EXTRA assumption to my original 6 assumptions (now there are 9). Funny thing about that list. It applies to the combo you posted as well. So I don't see why you keep posting it.

Quote: Did you read Savio's post carefully? He is assuming the damage as TWO critical hits in a row. That means the target foe must be fleeing away from you and you keep chasing it until you can hit it twice. That means you have to chase -> hit -> chase -> hit. How much time does it need to catch up a foe and deliver two skills in a row? With sprint, not much. You did notice he brought sprint didn't you. Did you think that was to run from another warrior?

Quote: 1/5 of health is gone. So? So that is the deadliest??? Sorry dude, deep wound is also a condition that can be removed. LMAO. Yes, conditions can be removed easily, IF you can do it by yourself, OR you have a promising monk in RA/TA, AND IF your monk can do the healing + remove condition at the same time. Normally, the monk will be the highest priority of target in PVP, right? (I hope you won't deny this). Then while your monk is being pressured, who will remove condition for you? Many conditions can be STACKED together. That means you can have poison + bleeding + disease + weakness at the same time. (it can be done easily by "Virulence"). I cannot see why these other conditions are not as "deadly" as deep wound. One single Burning condition will have 7 degeneration PER second. I cannot see why it is not "deadly". Degen is easily undone, without having to remove it. A simple heal will make up for degen, no condition removal is needed.

Quote: Unforunately, they are not facts. How is it generally accepted? By a group of friends? How has the "theory" been proven? How did you experiment your "hypothesis" being getting a "theory", and how does it got proven? Show me how. Not just SUBJECTIVE comment and whining "It is fact. No opinion". This is totally ignorant and immature. You need to pay more attention to the PvP metagame. That is where it has been proved. That is where it is accepted.

Quote: Both cost 8 adrenalines each means both require 8 adrenalines charged up at the same time before you can USE ANY attack skill. Adrenalines are accumulated individually for each skill. By the time you have adrenalines, you can use one skill, and after that skill hit the foe successfully, you will be recharged instantly for the second skill. You truly think I am a noob? Huh? Again, using two slots for the combo leaves 6 free slots. And the idea behind a spike is that you time your attack, so it really doesn't matter if you use any skill till your combo is charged. You unlesh it all at once and then go back to pressuring with IAS damage.

Quote: Again, what I'm arguing is that the spike potential of Savio's build is low because you cannot use ANY attack skills before you have your first 8 adrenalines saved. YOU DON'T NEED TO. Frenzy deals a mean amount of damage, and lets you charge your attacks faster.

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When I said "you guys", it is a general comment to people who replied my message, including you. Check Yutiko's previous posts in other threads. There are many comments like "Axe rocks" or similar comment. His comment in this thread said that if you don't want to use Eviscerate, then you'd be better off switching weapons. That has nothing to do with 'Sword-Hate' or whatever you are trying to increase public awareness of.

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Sorry, but we are NOT arguing that "Axe build w/Eviscerate > Axe build w/o Eviscerate for PvP". I guess you truly have a problem in reading + understanding + even listening. You better re-read all the posts + other threads that Savio and Yutiko have argued with me about Axe/Sword/Hammer. Do some research before shouting for non-sense, dude. None of Savio's or Yutiko's posts in this thread have said that. And from your reaction to simple comments in this thread, I'm sure you twisted what they have said in other threads as well.

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So this is not a discussion forum? Did I go to a wrong place? Maybe they should add an option that "no replies required"? Or simply change this section to "Warrior's build Showcase"? LOL I was refering to the fact that you're accusing people of things that they didn't say or infer. A few of your points that you've been arguing, have been points no one else has even refered to.

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So are you sure you can kill a tank build with your TWO attack skills? The ultimate-true-fact-no-opinion-proven-theory "Evis+Exec" combo can surely outrage a Warrior with Glad Defense + Riposte + Healing Hands + Healing Breeze + some other "tanking" skills? Never said two attack skills, two spike skills. Here I'll post what I said again:

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Originally Posted by SnipiousMax

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Man, I tell you what, by the time you have saved up 8 adrenalines, you are already dead. Don't LMAO. Again your attacking the combo, despite saying that you're not. And no you won't be. Cause they'll be busy attacking another target. The times you are attacked first are few and far between, and are most likely the result of you sprinting out ahead of everyone. When you play wisely, you will not be the first target. So you might add that little snipit to the list of assumptions. That you are under attack!

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DID YOU READ PROPERLY? Did you? Or you actually have a problem in reading? I'm reading fine. I do however appreciate your concern.

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Savio has the same point as you did -- that is -- "Warrior will not attack other warrior when other target is available". But is it really TRUE for the RA/TA scenario? Log in the game and bring your warrior to RA. Tell me the probability that your warrior is not getting hit by another warrior. Warrior will not get hit first, unless he does something stupid. Like leave his team in the dust. Attacking a warrior is wasting your damage on heavy armor. You do not attack a warrior unless you have to. That's just common sense.

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I quote my post for the THIRD TIME:
"In RA, it is most likely a warrior will attack another warrior. It is because sometimes maybe the whole opponent team are warriors. Or sometimes, there are always players who are not as "pro" as you do and they won't care anything but attack warriors first just to prove that they are "stronger". Some will just chase a monk or mesmer all around the map until they realize their whole team is dead already "rez please!!". There are all other new players who did stupid things in RA, EVEN in GVG. So I cannot see the point that a warrior will not be attacked by another warrior. This is just a stupid and unrealistic assumption, especially for RA." Again, if a warrior is being attacked, It's cause he's the last target left. If people are attacking me, while my team is alive, then they are not going to be much of a threat. I'd rather they attack me than my monk anyday. But even if they were attacking me, they're not gonna kill me with tanking skills!

And I'm not going to attack them till last, so their defensive skills are just wasted space. Once I finish off their softies, then my team will just focus fire on the warrior(s)

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WHO SAID I am talking about Spike? DID YOU READ properly? My argument is that "Why axe must be a spiker?" "Why axe cannot be a utility build just like sword?". If you can have other build rather than the Evis-Exec combo, you can actually bring "Charge" just like sword warriors. Sword warriors give up their Weaponry Elite "Hundred Blades" simply because they think it may not be as useful as "Charge" do. So can a non-spike axe warrior bring "Charge" too? An axe warrior cannot use Charge because his spike skill is Eviscerate which is an elite. Sure you can use charge as an axe warrior but that leaves you without the Evis+Exe combo, which makes you a subpar warrior. Sword Warriors CAN use charge because they don't require an elite to have an effective spike combo. Again.

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Your stupidity makes me burst to laugh.

The irony is priceless.

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Byron said it seems silly to him to structure a warrior around RA. It is because he thinks RA is so random that not a specific build will really work. That's true. So you agree with it, and you said his comment was trash.

lzlz

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

LA, CA

R/W

02 Apr 2006 at 07:10 - 28

Alright, it seems I have made somebody mad. No problem, dude, I will reply as much as I can to satisfy your eagerness in argument. I noticed that you've tried to avoid some of the points I've mentioned, as you have NO WAY to argue back. LOL. See how weak you are at debating. When I reply somebody's message, I will reply as a whole, but not picking on several points that you can "squeeze" something to talk about.

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Originally Posted by SnipiousMax

No I am, they're just weak points.

So it is your weakest sentence you can ever make?? It has no difference from your infamous immature sentence ever found in this forum --- "No opinion. Fact". OMG, I really wanna quote it in my signature if I can. Too bad

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You should read what you were commenting on, you were just reaming Savio for the very thing you were doing.

How did I "ream" Savio? Can you name any examples please?

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Did I say Warrior will NOT do killings? I just say Warrior can sometimes play a supportive role in a team battle, and it actually greatly helps the whole team in PVP. Skills like "Charge!", "Shield up", "Watch yourself" will greatly help your teammates, especially those with low AL. Did I say that a supportive Warrior will not bring any attack or offensive skills? What is your logic behind? Did I say that you can win a match just by "taking damage"? Either you have hullucination or you have rich imagination?

As Savio said, "Spiking consists of doing a gross amount of damage in a short period of time." Conditions with health degernation will also do massive damage. Did you see my point? And what is your point?

Stop replying by just saying "No, you are wrong." without giving a reason. Is it all you can ever do to not losing faces? Or simply you find no way to counter my argument?

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Quote the sentence that I said "eviscerate is a horrible skill". I really couldn't stop laughing because of a fool like you. Do you have anything else to say? You are simply whining and crying like a baby by saying something like "You like Red Color. That sucks! I win!" Excuse me, but how old are you?

"Two skills are spike based, the rest is your playground"?? I get what you mean but may I ask where are you from?

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Listen and Read, unless you can't. My question is if an Axe warrior can do other build rather than "Spiking"?

Oh, so if I am not dealing a huge amount of damage in a short time, then I am not doing a job as a warrior??? Why does this game allows you to combine different professions together? So you are implying that Warriors are for spiking but nothing else? Same as your friend, Savio? And you implying that all other jobs are not designed to deliver damage???

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Did I say this combo "sucks"? Did I? You have poor interpretation skill. From the very beginning, my argument is that "Savio's build with merely two attack skills is not effective/efficient to achieve the "spiking" purpose.

Yes, most warriors need to build up adrenaline to use their skills. Then how is it related to your accusation on me that I said "Evis+Exec = sucks"??

Geez...

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Yes. Final thrust is the only 'Spike' skill they need. I didn't say its the only skill they're bringing. And yes, I'm fine.

LOL. Alright, dude, whatever you say = right. Is it ok? You can even say that you can spike by only bringing the skill "Wild Blow". Good for you.

Oh yea, can you please stop making yourself like a fool?

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Funny thing about that list. It applies to the combo you posted as well. So I don't see why you keep posting it.

I point out the assumptions Savio made just to show that the chance to achieve the damage he mentioned (300 damage by two skills in a row) is very low. And by refering to the assumptions he made, I pointed out how other weapon can do similar or even higher damage. You are indeed funny.

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With sprint, not much. You did notice he brought sprint didn't you. Did you think that was to run from another warrior?

You mean you can easily catch up with your target foes when you're using sprint, right? Did you read my assumptions carefully? What if the target foes use other moving speed skill (Mesmer, Ranger, Elementalist all have +25% or +33% moving speed)? Or what if they use skill to slow you down (from -50% to -90% moving speed)? What if you are being crippled? Can you catch up with them? What if they are using an evade/block skill? Are you sure you have 8 adrenalines ready when you start chasing? There are so many uncertainties, which supports my argument that the Chance to achieve 300 damage by two skills in a row is low.

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Degen is easily undone, without having to remove it. A simple heal will make up for degen, no condition removal is needed.

You mean degeneration will only last a very short period of time or you mean degeneration can be removed easily? "A simple heal" = using healing signet? Are you sure you can make up the difference? Either you have never experienced -8 or higher degen or simply you are using "Heal Party" or "Word of Healing"? It doesn't even count other hexes you may encounter at the same time.

And you know we are talking about RA/TA, right?

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You need to pay more attention to the PvP metagame. That is where it has been proved. That is where it is accepted.

You haven't explained how they are proven? Simply because your comments are based on your personal experience so they are proven as eternal Fact of the universe? Excuse me, who are you? Don't LMAO. You seem like a spoiled kid who just refused to accept any other opinions apart from yours.

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Again, using two slots for the combo leaves 6 free slots. And the idea behind a spike is that you time your attack, so it really doesn't matter if you use any skill till your combo is charged. You unlesh it all at once and then go back to pressuring with IAS damage.

How to time your attack by those two attack skills which both require 8 adrenalines? You have to wait until you have adrenaline charged anyway, right? Oh, so what you mean by good timing is that you may have to choose the right timing to attack, even you have your skills charged up? So will there be further more delay in order to achieve high spiking purpose?

Unleash what all at once?? Eviscerate + Executioner's Chop? Oh, giving pressure by IAS? What if you are being attacked at that time? Are you assuming that your target foe and its allies will just run around and not attack you while you are attacking their monks/casters? Gimme a break, dude.

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YOU DON'T NEED TO. Frenzy deals a mean amount of damage, and lets you charge your attacks faster. The average damage of Axe normal attack is very close or even lower than Sword normal attack. So why do you "deal a mean amount of damage" with Frenzy? And simple point -- are you free of attacks at that time? This doesn't always happen in RA. It may be so in GVG, but not in RA/TA. Cuz it is a tight 4 vs 4 battle within a small map. You are very likely being attacked most of the time, especially warriors are the highest threat to the opponent team. They won't let you to kill their monks/teammates without attacking you/casting hexes and conditions on you/slow you down/interupt you...etc. Be realistic.

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His comment in this thread said that if you don't want to use Eviscerate, then you'd be better off switching weapons. That has nothing to do with 'Sword-Hate' or whatever you are trying to increase public awareness of. Did I ever try to increase public awareness? I joined this forum since May 2005 and I didn't have more than 100 posts. I am always a silent reader until I read some threads that I'd like to reply.

So back to my argument again --- is it that Axe Warrior can only use Eviscerate but nothing else? Is it that Axe warrior can only be a spiker but nothing else?

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None of Savio's or Yutiko's posts in this thread have said that. And from your reaction to simple comments in this thread, I'm sure you twisted what they have said in other threads as well. Check their post records. I did read forum everyday.

I only said "Savio and Yutiko have argued with me about Axe/Sword/Hammer", just like right now.

Are you okay?

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I was refering to the fact that you're accusing people of things that they didn't say or infer. A few of your points that you've been arguing, have been points no one else has even refered to. It seems you are accusing me for things that I haven't said. Name the sentences that I falsely accused them, if you can.

They didn't refer to my point maybe because they found no reasons to deny it, same to your situation when you are avoiding some of my points.

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Never said two attack skills, two spike skills. Here I'll post what I said again:

Two skills to spike, not 'only two attack skills.' Your making assumptions. So "Spike skills" are something NEW and they are NOT "Attack skills"?? WoW! Can you explain more for me please? I am a noob!

What is your logic? I didn't even assume anything. Are we speaking in the same language?

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Again your attacking the combo, despite saying that you're not. And no you won't be. Cause they'll be busy attacking another target. The times you are attacked first are few and far between, and are most likely the result of you sprinting out ahead of everyone. When you play wisely, you will not be the first target. So you might add that little snipit to the list of assumptions. That you are under attack!

I didn't quite understand what you were talking about. They seem kinda pointless to me. Savio said his build with "Evis + Exec" can theoretically take off a tank build warrior with "Glad Defense + riposte + healing breeze + other tank skills". So I just point out that it doesn't seem possible.

It's simple. Glad and Riposte are blocking skills. When you are attack that warrior, you are the only one who takes damages. With Healing Breeze + other tank skills, that tank warrior merely take any damage from you even "you unleashed your two skills". By the time you charge up 8 adrenalines, you've already taken a huge load of damage. If you choose not to attack the tank warrior, your adrenaline will be charged up extremely slow. So? You see how clear my argument is now?

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I'm reading fine. I do however appreciate your concern. Thank you. You are welcome. I hope you are really fine.

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Warrior will not get hit first, unless he does something stupid. Like leave his team in the dust. Attacking a warrior is wasting your damage on heavy armor. You do not attack a warrior unless you have to. That's just common sense. Yes, and did you read my posts? Many people just don't have this common sense in RA. I'm so sorry that you are still sticking with this old point that Savio and Me have already finished discussing.

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Again, if a warrior is being attacked, It's cause he's the last target left. If people are attacking me, while my team is alive, then they are not going to be much of a threat. I'd rather they attack me than my monk anyday. But even if they were attacking me, they're not gonna kill me with tanking skills!

And I'm not going to attack them till last, so their defensive skills are just wasted space. Once I finish off their softies, then my team will just focus fire on the warrior(s) You are assuming that:
1) Your opponents play the SAME WAY as you do -- which is that "their warriors will not attack you until you are the last one left"
2) Your team is alive and they don't
The first assumption is possible, if they are experienced players. But it may not be frequent in RA/TA. And what if your team are mainly warriors or melee players? Those warriors have no choice but to attack you. It always happens since warrior is one of the most popular professions in game.

The second assumption is just stupid. If your team is alive and they don't, your team will won anyway, except you guys are pathetic (but it doesn't seem so cuz you have killed all other 3 enemies already)

Oh, and now you prefer them to attack you instead of your monk? Oh, and you are using tanking skills? Did you just say in the previous paragraph that the Evis-Exec combo can kill the Tank warrior build? Contradicted???

By the way, what are softies? You mean soft targets?

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An axe warrior cannot use Charge because his spike skill is Eviscerate which is an elite. Sure you can use charge as an axe warrior but that leaves you without the Evis+Exe combo, which makes you a subpar warrior. Sword Warriors CAN use charge because they don't require an elite to have an effective spike combo. Again. As I have said, Axe warrior must have Eviscerate IF THEY WANT TO BE A SPIKER. I am asking if there can be any other AXE build that you can use other elite skill rather than Evis IF YOU ARE NOT PLAYING AS A SPIKER.

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The irony is priceless. The free jokes are truly entertaining. Thanks for being a Fool to make up my day.

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So you agree with it, and you said his comment was trash. Wow! Did I say Savio's comment was "trash"?
Savio is an experienced player who has solid points in his argument. It's just I don't agree with some of his points in terms of the build he posted.
Never say other's comment as "trash". It will just make what others think you are. Respect others. And please stop crying/whining...

SnipiousMax

Perfectly Elocuted

Join Date: Sep 2005

02 Apr 2006 at 07:37 - 29

To point out what you've been doing the whole time you've been posting. I'll do this one last time. Then to avoid contribuiting more to a redundant and repetative thread, I'm done.

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Originally Posted by lzlz

Wow! Did I say Savio's comment was "trash"?
Savio is an experienced player who has solid points in his argument. It's just I don't agree with some of his points in terms of the build he posted.
Never say other's comment as "trash". It will just make what others think you are. Respect others. And please stop crying/whining... You didn't. You said Byron's Statement was trash. Well you called it Bull**** not trash, but I don't resort to swearing. Within two posts, you've already forgot what you were talking about. You've been doing that with everything everyone else has posted. You make a statement, then when someone calls you on it, you've already forgotten what you said to begin with. So call names, laugh all you want. I don't feel the fool.

Savio

Teenager with attitude

Join Date: Jul 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

02 Apr 2006 at 07:59 - 30

Yep, it's redundant and repetitive. Closed.