[GvG]
This character is built around the new mesmer elite, Psychic Distraction. This skill, alone, is suitable replacement for an entire bar of mesmer interrupts, with a mean side effect and a serious drawback. The skill recharges in 2 seconds, so it's almost constantly available, but it disables every other skill on your bar for 8 seconds when you use it. This, then, is the big gun of the build, and the rest of the bar is built to accomodate periodic skill blackouts.
You may wonder, why not just use a mesmer? Well, because assassins have four pips, critical hits energy bonus, autoattack damage, and a number of nice buffs. But most importantly, it's because Psychic Distraction is like being a dedicated interrupt mesmer, in a single skill, leaving the rest of the bar to be...anything. So without further ado, here it is.
Critical Hits 11+3
Dagger Mastery 10+1+1
Deadly Arts 6 + 1
Domination 8
Psychic Distraction, 10e 1/4 2s *elite
All of your other skills are disabled for 8 seconds. If target foe is using a skill, that skill is interrupted and disabled for 9 seconds.
Critical Eye, 5e - 30s
For 33 seconds, you have an additional 7% chance to land a critical hit when attacking. You gain 1 Energy whenever you score a critical hit.
Unsuspecting Strike, 10e - 10s
Lead Attack. If this attack hits, you strike for +29 damage. If your target was above 90% Health you deal an additional 38 damage.
Entangling Asp, 10e 1 20s
Spell. Entangling Asp must follow a lead attack. Target foe is knocked down and becomes Poisoned for 12 seconds.
Siphon Speed, 5e 1 5s
Hex Spell. For 10 seconds, target foe moves 15% slower and you move 15% faster.
Hex Breaker, 5e - 15s
For 55 seconds, the next time you are the target of a Hex, that Hex fails and the caster takes 29 damage.
Recall, 15e 2 10s -1m
Enchantment Spell. While you maintain Recall on target ally, nothing happens. When Recall ends, you Shadow Step to that ally's location.
Rez Signet, - 3 -
Resurrect target ally with 100% health and 25% energy.
This build has: an interrupt, a snare/runspeed boost, a conditionally high damage attack, a ranged knockdown, defense against hexes, an emergency escape button, and a rez sig. It would always be run with zealous daggers- autoattacking feeds it energy. It doesn't have much defensive ability, aside from being able to kite at 115% (much of the time), and shrugging off one hex every 15s.
Sharpen daggers got dropped because for it to be useful, the assassin would have to be running all through the enemy lines, giving everyone a little tap here and there. However, as a fairly high priority target, this would be probable suicide.
-edit: specified build for GvG, replaced sharpen daggers with recall for more defensive ability.
[C] [A/Me] Psychic Assassin
swordfisher
Sidra
If you're going for 12 v 12, you will not need the rez signet. Anything else that you want to fill it with? Btw, what is the point of the Psychic Distraction if you are disabling all of your other hexes? Is it like a last resort? and if your Dom Magic level is increased, does the ammount of time that your skills are disabled go down? because for 9/8 it's really not that much of an advantage for you if they have 7 other usefull skills and all you have are a pair of sharpened sticks without any attacks to back them up...
swordfisher
A) I was thinking GvG, actually...maybe I should put this build there.
B) Psychic Distraction is the point of this build. It disables all other skills for 8 seconds, but is an uber interrupt that recharges almost immediately. I don't care about the time disabled on the interrupted skill, really- bumping it from 8 dom to 12 only increases the disable time by 2 seconds. But Psychic Distraction is used as the primary tool, and the other parts of the build refreshed as needed (siphon speed and hexbreaker will be recast pretty much every time they're available).
C) I'm glad you asked if there was another skill I'd rather have instead of rez sig. I'd sub in Expunge Enchantments, stripping six enchantments from a single touched foe while disabling all my skills (except the one attack skill) for 8 seconds. Costs 10, recharges in 30, nice utility for spiking.
D) The build is not meant to do damage like a warrior. At no time would I suggest going to head to head with a warrior, because you will not win. However, it does have a great deal of utility, and the autoattack damage will add up on soft targets. Think of it as a mesmer with knives.
B) Psychic Distraction is the point of this build. It disables all other skills for 8 seconds, but is an uber interrupt that recharges almost immediately. I don't care about the time disabled on the interrupted skill, really- bumping it from 8 dom to 12 only increases the disable time by 2 seconds. But Psychic Distraction is used as the primary tool, and the other parts of the build refreshed as needed (siphon speed and hexbreaker will be recast pretty much every time they're available).
C) I'm glad you asked if there was another skill I'd rather have instead of rez sig. I'd sub in Expunge Enchantments, stripping six enchantments from a single touched foe while disabling all my skills (except the one attack skill) for 8 seconds. Costs 10, recharges in 30, nice utility for spiking.
D) The build is not meant to do damage like a warrior. At no time would I suggest going to head to head with a warrior, because you will not win. However, it does have a great deal of utility, and the autoattack damage will add up on soft targets. Think of it as a mesmer with knives.
LaserLight
Mesmer with knives would have to hit knife range to use those knives. Thus the dilemma.
I agree that Psychic Distraction is a serious PITA, but I'm not sure if this is the best way to take advantage of it. Any build with Psychic Distraction is going to be centered on it with iron focus, and this one is trying to knife people as well as Distract them. I don't see it falling on its butt, but I don't see it working as well as Psychic Distraction could, either.
It's a funky skill, and I've got little clue how to best utilize it, but my gut says this isn't it. Still, props for a solid attempt and I'm certain it could drive mid-level casters and Guilds to distraction.
I agree that Psychic Distraction is a serious PITA, but I'm not sure if this is the best way to take advantage of it. Any build with Psychic Distraction is going to be centered on it with iron focus, and this one is trying to knife people as well as Distract them. I don't see it falling on its butt, but I don't see it working as well as Psychic Distraction could, either.
It's a funky skill, and I've got little clue how to best utilize it, but my gut says this isn't it. Still, props for a solid attempt and I'm certain it could drive mid-level casters and Guilds to distraction.
swordfisher
I do agree that as an offensive melee character that's going to draw a lot of hate, it does need some more self defense. However, you have to have some way of defending without having reliable access to your skills. I considered an alternate version using Shadow Arts defensive skills instead of Deadly Arts offensive powers, but most Shadow Arts skills are point-hungry- I wouldn't bother running most of that line with only 7 in it. Moreover, I'd lose out on the awesomeness that is Siphon Speed.
Anyway, down to brass tacks. Would running Recall (no attrib maintained enchant, teleport to target ally when recall ends) make this build significantly harder to kill? The advantage of Recall is that you can use it (ie, cancel and teleport) even when your skills are blacked out, which is often.
Anyway, down to brass tacks. Would running Recall (no attrib maintained enchant, teleport to target ally when recall ends) make this build significantly harder to kill? The advantage of Recall is that you can use it (ie, cancel and teleport) even when your skills are blacked out, which is often.
Myodato
I like the concept - sacrifice your skill bar to interrupt very often, and then use your attacks to still be useful in between. I have one problem with it though, and that's that it just seems to suit R/Me much better than A/Me.
Assassins are defensively weak by the current melee class standard. They have a number of skills and abilties to make up for that, but if you regularly disable your skill bar, you suddenly lose that advantage. A Ranger on the other hand, can perform a similar role to the assassin, but not have to wade into the front line to do it.
And I just realised, I'm really not looking forward to meeting somebody trying this in PvP.
Assassins are defensively weak by the current melee class standard. They have a number of skills and abilties to make up for that, but if you regularly disable your skill bar, you suddenly lose that advantage. A Ranger on the other hand, can perform a similar role to the assassin, but not have to wade into the front line to do it.
And I just realised, I'm really not looking forward to meeting somebody trying this in PvP.
Sidra
Also, the ranger could easily apply a stance like Dryder's or Whirling Defence to help him with any baddies going after him, which if you have Wilderness Survival high enough, can last out through the skill disable time. I would have to say that one way to stay safe would be to have someone else covering you while you do this, so that you can lay down your combos and they can interrupt repeatedly. You could also disable the caster's main skill when you see them casting it, and then move in with another assassin to help you take the hit while you wait for regen.
This biuld wouldn't really work for running around a battle field and just killing randomly...
This biuld wouldn't really work for running around a battle field and just killing randomly...
Siren
I'm not feeling Psychic Distraction, either. But my reason for it is different than others here. While skill bar disabling is pretty detrimental, I'm looking at that 10 energy cost.
Now, yes. Assassin e-management is breathtaking. I'd be one of the first people to praise the Assassin energy management. But I don't think it'll be an efficient use of your Elite slot, the Assassin e-management, and an interrupt-focused build in general to use Psychic Distraction. I mean, consider the following. The skill costs 10 energy. It has a recharge of 2 seconds. Depending on which kind of caster you're going after, basically spamming (because 2 seconds isn't that long of a recharge) a 10E skill every 3 seconds is going to hurt, even with Crits, the 4 pips of regen, etc.
Even if you were to interrupt every other spell, which sounds more likely, given a 2-second recharge, you'd still be spending 10 energy every 3 seconds. The Assassins have a max of 30-something. You'd burn through that pretty quickly, even with the Crits and such. You could use Zealous daggers I suppose, but I don't know. I just get the feeling that Disrupting Stab would be a better interrupt. Plus it would free up your Elite slot for something like...Temple Strike, hehe. Or Beguiling Haze. And both of those can be very painful interrupts.
Now, yes. Assassin e-management is breathtaking. I'd be one of the first people to praise the Assassin energy management. But I don't think it'll be an efficient use of your Elite slot, the Assassin e-management, and an interrupt-focused build in general to use Psychic Distraction. I mean, consider the following. The skill costs 10 energy. It has a recharge of 2 seconds. Depending on which kind of caster you're going after, basically spamming (because 2 seconds isn't that long of a recharge) a 10E skill every 3 seconds is going to hurt, even with Crits, the 4 pips of regen, etc.
Even if you were to interrupt every other spell, which sounds more likely, given a 2-second recharge, you'd still be spending 10 energy every 3 seconds. The Assassins have a max of 30-something. You'd burn through that pretty quickly, even with the Crits and such. You could use Zealous daggers I suppose, but I don't know. I just get the feeling that Disrupting Stab would be a better interrupt. Plus it would free up your Elite slot for something like...Temple Strike, hehe. Or Beguiling Haze. And both of those can be very painful interrupts.
swordfisher
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Myodato sez:A Ranger on the other hand, can perform a similar role to the assassin, but not have to wade into the front line to do it.
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This build wouldn't really work for running around a battle field and just killing randomly...
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Even if you were to interrupt every other spell, which sounds more likely, given a 2-second recharge, you'd still be spending 10 energy every 3 seconds. The Assassins have a max of 30-something. You'd burn through that pretty quickly, even with the Crits and such. Ideally, I'd want to empty my energy pool by chaining interrupts together. Why? Because the more downtime there is between one interrupt and the next, the longer my skills are disabled overall. If I toss off three interrupts as soon as they recharge then run into melee and hit some criticals, I ought to be have something in my energy bar by the time the rest of my skills have recovered from the 8 second disable.
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By including Recall, you're now down by 15E and down to three pips of energy regen. It's a skill that absolutely positively must be pre-cast before doing anything, because when you run into trouble, you need to get out immediately usually. Consider Return instead.|
Siren also sez: I just get the feeling that Disrupting Stab would be a better interrupt. Plus it would free up your Elite slot for something like...Temple Strike, hehe. Or Beguiling Haze. All touch range interrupts. While I'm keeping myself in touch range of someone to gain energy, I don't intend to limit myself to only interrupting that one person.
Siren
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Originally Posted by swordfisher
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Generally, what you're describing doesn't sound like a sound battle strategy. You're emptying your energy in under...9 seconds, to interrupt/disable three skills. Then you're running in, or you're there already. You've got an initial 8 seconds of being disabled after using Psy.Dis. Then roughly 2 seconds into that, you're adding another 8 seconds. Another 2 seconds, then you add another 8 seconds.
There's your 30E right there, and if my math doesn't suck (I'm an English major), that means your skill are disabled for at least 12 seconds, provided the disable doesn't stack, which I'm pretty sure it doesn't. So you're in the clear there at least, as it relates to disability stacking...or something like that.
After you blow your energy, you'll have to wait before doing anything, pretty much. You'll be running on 3 pips of regen, which works out to be something like 3 energy every 3 seconds. So to even get back to a level where you can use Critical Eye, provided you haven't activated it before the Psy.Dis. spam, you've got a wait of 6 seconds. That's essentially another 6 seconds of your skills being disabled.
Your total skills disabled time is at 18 seconds now.
Oh, and since Recall costs 15E, in addition to dropping you down to the 3 pips of regen, you're down to roughly half energy, even before you start spamming the 10E Psy.Dis. Bad idea.
Let's say you bring Return in place of Recall. You're back up at 4 pips now, which would give you some leeway regarding skill usage. Let's see how the energy performs when you run up first.
You use Critical Eye (5E). From 30E, you're now down to 25. Energy regen begins.
You start spamming Psy.Dis after that.
One Psy.Dis and you're at 15E, able to pick-up another 4E in 3 seconds. Psy.Dis recharges in 2.
You'd use the 2nd one immediately when it's available (another 10E), leaving 1 more second to get the next regen, essentially. You're down to 5E, plus regen, which brings you up to 9E. You wait another 2 seconds for Psy.Dis to recharge, but need an additional 1 second to gain another 4E from regen.
You can't use it a third time, unless you wait for another 3 seconds.
Total time there is...2+3+3, which totals to 8 seconds. The first Psy.Dis. disable lasts for 8 seconds. Without Crits, you're pretty much screwed in that scenario.
Now using Crits, you'd probably have enough E coming in to make it work. With Zealous daggers, even better. But my question is...Why? It's so much trouble just for an Elite slot that could be better used by one of your primary's Elites.
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So in just the set-up for this one skill, you've already blown through most of your energy.|
All touch range interrupts. While I'm keeping myself in touch range of someone to gain energy, I don't intend to limit myself to only interrupting that one person.
If it could barely work just targeting one person (which is what my above portion focused on), how is it going to work against multiple targets? I don't think it will, because even if you're fast and accurate with Tab/Shift+Tab, that's still adding at least another second to each use. And even more if you need to Tab/Shift+Tab more than once to get a proper target. Further, you desperately still need to be attacking to have enough E coming back to you, which means to be safe, after the Tab/Shift, you should really be hitting C to re-target. So...I like the idea of this build...but the implementation will be a complete bitch I think. I don't think multi-targeting will be feasible; you'd really need to pick-on a single target for this to work. And if you have to pick on a single target...why not use a Temple Strike-based set-up? swordfisher
My order of operations.
Critical Eye is always up. It can't be stripped, costs 5e every 30 seconds. No sweat. It's the first thing I do in the morning, last thing I do at night. Hex breaker comes next, another 5e skill. Both of these are automatic skills- if they're available, no reason not to use them. (Recall gets cast here, if I'm using it- it's not a necessity, just an escape button that can get me out of a tough situation- even if all my skills are disabled.) Siphon speed goes onto someone, either my first target or an opposing warrior, and that's when I go to work with melee. We're currently at 15e spent, or 30 if I've got the safety net that is recall. Again, recall is not mandatory, just helpful. I'm not enormously pleased by having to lose a pip to maintain it. Ok, assuming that recall is up and the assassin is using zealous daggers against a stationary target (kiting is hard to calculate), the 'sin will have 2 pips of regen, ie 2 energy every 3 seconds. A single hit, delivered every 1.33 seconds (chance of doublestriking, 24%, aside) yields 1 additional energy and has, according to my understanding, something like a 40% chance to land as a critical (20% natural crit rate at 12 weaponmastery, 14% from Critical Strike attribute, 7% from Critical Eye). These should yield 4 energy each, to a total of five with the zealous bonus. An assassin attacking for 12 seconds has a chance to hit nine times. Using the 40% crit rate, we can call four of these nine attempts criticals. If they all hit, that would be a total of 25 energy in 12 seconds, through autoattacking. The two pips of the assassin provide 8 energy in this same timeframe. But that's a very idealized situation. Assuming a skilled enemy, you can cut that number in half, to 20 energy (with pip regen) every 12 seconds. This is the equivalent of five pips, and remember that recall is running in the background. But remember too, that the enemy has spent time, energy, and effort casting melee hate on you, instead of a nasty spiky warrior. Quote:
Now using Crits, you'd probably have enough E coming in to make it work. With Zealous daggers, even better. But my question is...Why? It's so much trouble just for an Elite slot that could be better used by one of your primary's Elites.
That's the beauty of the situation- even though you're not a serious damage threat, the enemy still has to expend hate on you to keep the interrupts from flowing. And if you can interrupt a significant amount of hate, you and your warriors should be able to work almost unhindered. |
As for disrupting stab, temple strike, and beguiling haze- each has a drawback, in addition to being touch range. Disrupting stab is not a precision tool- like skull crack or disrupting chop, it hits when your weapon does. Temple strike is expensive and an offhand strike- to use it once is going to cost at least 20e. Also, I'm just not overwhelmed by dazed, as it is in the end, just another condition. This goes double for beguiling haze, as it has double the recharge time. One interrupt, even if it dazes, every 20 seconds does not rock my world.
Siren
Something still doesn't make sense...heh.
Originally Posted by swordfisher
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From the moment you reach your target, you're very likely completely empty. You can't do anything for roughly 12 seconds until you can hit and regen enough energy to start the Psy.Dis spam. Within those 12 seconds, your target will either defend himself, or his allies will defend him.
The success of this build depends on the failure to defend.
So if there is a successful defense, you don't get energy at all, apart from 2 pips of regen. That successful defense is largely dependent upon your target...and if you don't have energy within those 12 seconds or after those 12 seconds...you can't interrupt...which begs the question...
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Why not just bring Expunge Enchantments then? Instead of switching targets after you draw the prot out, which would probably be more trouble than it's worth, considering that'll impede your energy return even more, because you have to take the time to get another target, get to them (unless they're right next to you), and start swinging.|
And if you can interrupt a significant amount of hate, you and your warriors should be able to work almost unhindered.
...what character are you targeting? You're basically a lame duck within those 12 seconds. You can't interrupt in that timeframe, because you need that time to regain energy after using it all (provided you use Recall, obviously) in setting-up for Psy.Dis spam. But if you can't interrupt within those 12 seconds due to lack of energy, that means your target can cast just fine. And if your target isn't the one throwing some WarHate on you, then his allies have a window of 12 seconds to do just that. Which then means you will never, ever be interrupting any WarHate at all...because you lack the means to do so. Necros are basically the kings of WarHate, so I'd expect you to target a Necro. What happens if they hit you with something like Price of Failure and Shadow of Fear? Or Faintheartedness? Call for the removal, obviously, but some anti-Warrior Curses have very fast recharges. But if that Necro staggers the use, like using Shadow of Fear first, then having Faintheartedness ready should he need it, then Price of Failure if necessary...he can pretty much extend that 12 seconds out for a while. Now, granted, you'll also have two pips of natural regen. But your big energy machine here is hitting with your auto-attacks. If they take out your auto-attacks, you have no energy for all intents and purposes. The natural regen won't provide you with enough to churn out the interrupt. It's like in Terminator. John Connor doesn't live if Judgment Day doesn't happen, and Judgment Day doesn't happen if John Connor doesn't live. You've got a vicious cycle of...cyclical dependency? So, the biggest problem with this idea, I think, is going in with close to zero energy and limited natural regen and having to wait to interrupt. Quote:
Autoattacks go on pretty much anyone, and switch to someone else the second they lay down some prot. In this way, your biggest objective is to draw that prot out, not to seriously damage the player.
I will rarely be throwing interrupts at the character I'm hitting with the daggers, though. Most likely, I'll babysit one character with the interrupts (but others will know more about the art of interruption, my reflexes suck too much for me to be experienced in that game). Quote:
I just think it's a lousy choice to run in with zero energy. There are so many variables that doom this strategy, and running in with zero energy doesn't help. If any little thing goes wrong, you're really screwed, even with Hex Breaker and such.
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And the problem there is...it's highly unlikely you'll see another enemy caster next to you for that tactic. The casters will see you approach and very likely move. So if there is another enemy there, it's going to be a Warrior beating down on you, and targeting a Warrior won't be a good idea.
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The point is that the assassin is carrying a ranged mesmer interrupt. It can be beating on the ele, while babysitting the necro. Then beat on the mesmer...and still be babysitting the necro. In fact, because there's no possibility of obstacle collision, arrow-juking, or catching the skill too late because of flight time, the assassin is slightly more capale of pulling off ranged interrupts.|
I will rarely be throwing interrupts at the character I'm hitting with the daggers, though. Most likely, I'll babysit one character with the interrupts (but others will know more about the art of interruption, my reflexes suck too much for me to be experienced in that game).
That's one thing you'll come to understand about doing interrupts. If you want complete and utter shutdown, or major pressure like you're looking to do with Psy.Dis, you need to completely focus your attention, both with regular attacks and whatever interrupt skills you're bringing. I'll use my Ranger as an example. If I want to run a Choking Gas build versus a caster, I need to babysit that caster to be effective. I'd have Savage and Distracting Shot for those times when my regular auto-attack isn't going to get there in time, but regardless, I have to zero in on that one target. But if I'm just needing to interrupt Heal Sigs, Res Sigs, Troll Unguents, however, I can Tab/Shift+Tab around just fine when I can anticipate it. There's something wonderful about anticipating a Res Sig from the Warrior to the right, then Tabbing over to Distracting Shot it, then waiting another second, Shift+Tab back and Savage Shot your original target's Res Sig. ^_^ That's do-able in that type of scenario because Rangers have that luxury. A character like your build doesn't have the luxury to Tab/Shift+Tab around. The Ranger has the distance to do stuff like that...but you're locked into melee range. That's why I think you'd be required to both auto-attack and interrupt the same target. You said how your reflexes aren't precise enough to do interrupts. Based on that, I can say with confidence that the likelihood of you being able to Tab/Shift+Tab around to interrupt even the most important spells is very slim. And that's not even considering that you could only interrupt 3 of the most important spells in a best-case scenario, then you'd have blown your energy reserves completely. Quote:
Rangers have the built in energy management of expertise...which will do nothing for Psychic Distraction. I chose assassin for their passive energy management, and for the fact that they require melee-hate to prevent that energy management from going through (spreading the enemy's resources that much thinner in this warrior-dominant metagame).
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And that's not even considering that you could only interrupt 3 of the most important spells in a best-case scenario, then you'd have blown your energy reserves completely.
Most interrupt builds are limited by the number of interrupts they have on their bar, and the time it takes for them to recharge (25 seconds is a fairly standard value). It's much easier to gain some more energy to interrupt again than it is to speed up the recharge on your spells so you can interrupt again. In this case, I think the build comes out about even with the old standard interrupt mesmer in terms of sheer presence of interruptions, and likely beats them in flexibility (ie, being able to interrupt any skill, not just spells). Quote:
There's never a possibility of obstacle collision, arrow-juking, or catching the skill too late because of flight time when you're playing Interrupt Ranger and looking to interrupt the important stuff only. And really, in any interrupt build, skill discrimination is an absolute necessity.
Regarding your target choices and "game of resources," I seriously doubt your enemies will be the ones wasting the most resources in that type of scenario. I mean, consider the following: You target the Ele. Enemy Monk sees it and casts Guardian in, oh, a few seconds. You switch targets to the Mesmer. Guardian recharges in 2 seconds. There goes another Guardian on the Mesmer. You've now switched targets twice, because after the Mesmer is a no-go, you need to find another energy engine, and you're nowhere near the energy you'd need for the 10E triple interrupt spam. If anything, the opposing team forced you to waste resources by having to switch targets because of one or two enchantments. But if you need to hit the enemy to maintain energy regen, and if you're switching targets constantly (and it's very likely), however, you have no energy coming in...which means you're just wasting time when another, more discriminatory interrupt build just blocked 2-4 skills. Quote: |
Not necessarily. The Choking Gas build is one such example. My previous versions of the build depended on Practiced Stance {E}, but I recently adapted the build for Serpent's Quickness, with Oath Shot as the Elite in the bar. It works extremely, extremely well.
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In this case, I think the build comes out about even with the old standard interrupt mesmer in terms of sheer presence of interruptions, and likely beats them in flexibility (ie, being able to interrupt any skill, not just spells).
Whereas other more discriminatory and strategic builds can stagger their interrupts for the really important stuff (Res Sig, Heal Sig, even Troll Unguent), you are damn near required to interrupt 3 skills in quick succession roughly every 15 seconds. If you don't spam Psy.Dis, you have no threat potential at all. So you desperately need to spam and hope that you catch the important skills. If you manage to catch anything meaningful, that's in a best-case scenario, where the opposing Monks aren't carrying something like Aegis (and Aegis will really kill your build) or Guardian. And your skill bar has zero stance/enchantment killers. You don't even have anything to bypass evasion and blocking. So yeah. Back to the drawing board, mate. swordfisher
If you're interested in a second, more standard Psychic Distraction* build, it can be found here. Personally, I still think this Assassin would be successful, but it's all Theory Wars right now.
I can't quite stop arguing it, though. While Guardian and Aegis will certainly prevent me from hitting, Guardian and (especially) Aegis are long casts which are vulnerable to interrupt. But more fundamentally, the fact that there is a monk spending 5-7 energy a pop to Guardian against me means that I've drawn hate away from the very threatening warriors on my team. By forcing the enemy to counter what is essentially a caster build with melee hate, I've futher strained their entire anti-melee capability, while bringing more to the table than the usual 'hit things hard' function of a melee fighter.
Spoony
If u want to do psy distraction, im more after ur mesmer build than this one.
Siren
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Originally Posted by swordfisher
Guardian only takes 1 second to cast. That's barely vulnerable to interrupt. I've done it before, but it requires a solid interrupt character to watch for it. You're greatly overestimating how much pressure you can put on "Monk resources." They can counter you with something that costs 5 energy, casts in 1 second, and recharges in 2 seconds. For all the laborious preparation time required for your build, and the overly bizarre execution of it, and the fact that you'd probably have zero energy going in...being countered by a 5-energy Guardian is...bad. It's very bad in fact, and I think it's indicative of how weak the build is.
SparhawkJC
I think that while this build is interesting, its purpose is better performed by hammer wielders and actual mesmers.
Spoony
Hell yeah, takes practice to interrupt a guardian spell just like that. Ever tried interupting prot spirit ?
MSecorsky
One thing I noticed... you only disable a skill if you catch them using it. If you use it when they're not using a skill, you're down 10e/8 secs and you haven't disabled anything. You catch someone in a period of time when they're not using skills it blows your rythym out of the water.
DieInBasra
Siren, you really missed the point in your last paragraph. He's not out there to do damage attacking, he's out there to force enemy monks to drop a guardian on someone who isn't really getting hurt, to force their eles to drop a blinding flash on someone who can still function blinded, to force their warriors to get that assasin out of their backline when he can just teleport away as they come for him. And if you don't think that the monk useing something that costs 5-7 energy and achieves nothing is bad, then...um...you're wrong.
I really like this build. It's pretty creative. However, makeing it for 8v8 is tricky, because you need to be very specific about the build and it's purpose on a larger scale. You can't just take a build into a GvG senerio, good as it is, without any information as to what the other 7 characters are. Like, what would this replace in the standard dual surge build? Too many warriors and you run into problems with AoE snares, wards, traps, and AoE hexes, just keeping them clean. Too few and it's turned into a VoD game, or a spike. What would you consider running this with, and do you really think it's better then other disruption options(aka denial/hex spam)? To me this guy needs the ability to assist a spike, or the build needs to be a pressure-spike sort of thing like ScV did. I really couldn't consider useing more then 2 melee characters, and if one is purely disruptive, then the build couldn't be pure pressure.
Siren
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Originally Posted by DieInBasra
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Quote: he's out there to force enemy monks to drop a guardian on someone who isn't really getting hurt And this is a solid strategy how? A Monk casted a spammable 5E spell on his target. 5 energy. 5 second duration. 2 second recharge. Whooptee-freakin-doo. That Monk wasn't the one forced to do anything. In fact, the Monk screwed over his entire build.
That Monk spent 5 energy to make his investment of roughly 60 energy (and if we add losing 2 pips of regen to that, it probably hits 75-80)...completely and utterly useless.
Who got the better deal out of that? The Monk.
Quote: to force their eles to drop a blinding flash on someone who can still function blinded Think about this for a second. His character CANNOT function while blinded. Do you see any anti-evasion skills in his build? No. You don't. This is a build that depletes nearly all of his energy before he even gets in range. He needs that energy for an interrupt that disables all of his own skills. And he can only get that energy by hitting his target.
Blinding Flash being ineffective against this character? A character who cut his natural regen in half, and depends on hitting his target to supplement the lost regen? The Ele just screwed over his entire build. 15E used to negate a build of roughly 75E. Winner here: the Ele.
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Think about who is making an investment of 60-80 energy with a build like the one swordfisher posted. If you want to say my post was implying that Monks have 80 energy, then you are not reading my posts with basic comprehension. I'll simplify it:|
to force their warriors to get that assasin out of their backline when he can just teleport away as they come for him.
The Warriors won't give two shits about him because he's not causing enough damage, doing minimal and barely effective interrupts (Using an Elite from his secondary profession? What the hell is that?) due to piss-poor e-management, and on top of all of this...he's admitted his reflexes suck for interrupts? I think I just suffered an aneurysm. lol Why, then, if someone knows their interrupt reflexes suck, would they even consider wasting their Elite slot on an interrupt from their secondary profession that's going to disable all of their skills and drain their entire energy reserves after three uses? It makes zero sense regardless of how one tries to rationalize it. Quote:
Oh, you mean the following?
Quote: Who got the better deal out of that? The Monk. |
The Monk is only wasting resources if his resource consumption is greater than the resource consumption of the "Psychic Assassin" build.
As it stands now, however, the Monk only needs to spend 5 energy to counter the entire Psychic Assassin build.
Compare that 5 energy (the Monk resources required to counter the build) to the energy required to get the Psychic Assassin build up and running, including the loss of two pips of energy regen:
The player running Psychic Assassin spends an initial 15-30E just to prep for the build. If he activates Recall, he's completely empty on energy, and also down by one pip. If he's using Zealous daggers, that's another pip of regen gone. Total E loss: 30E+2E per 3 seconds
Now let's consider how long this combination would normally go for. I believe the estimate has been roughly 12-15 seconds.
In the span of 12 seconds, the player would normally have regained 8E (12 divided by 3, multiplied by 2).
In the span of 15 seconds, the energy regained becomes 10E (15 divided by 3, multiplied by 2).
Total E loss from losing two pips of energy regen: 8-10E
The Interrupt skill itself, Psychic Distraction, costs 10E a pop. Since the player would need to spam the thing to be mildly effective, that's another 30E right there. Total E loss: 30E.
Add up the two 30s there and you get what? An investment of 60 Energy, excluding the loss of two pips of energy regen (one from maintaining Recall, and the second because he needs Zealous daggers).
If we add the lost energy regen to that? The total investment runs from 68E to 70E.
Monk counters Psychic Assassin with Guardian. Guardian costs 5 energy. Psychic Assassin costs upwards of 70E.
The Monk makes out like a bandit in that trade-off.
Monk wastes resources? No.
Psychic Assassin wastes resources.
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What are you trying to get at here? His build does get destroyed by Guardian, because he needs energy for Psy.Dis. And he can only get energy by connecting with attacks.|
The one that mystified me was This build was meant for the good interrupters. That's obvious to anyone I should hope. But almost like you're saying that the build sucks because he's a bad interupter. Oh wait...you are. And herein lies a critical flaw with the build: no good interrupter would dare use it. You'd get more mileage out of a Choking Gas Ranger, or a Temple Strike/Exhausting Failure Assassin. Or hell, even an E/Me running Psychic Distraction...because they've got the energy reserves to do it. EDIT: I'm not trying to be an a-hole here. swordfisher knows that I have nothing against him personally. He's created some fantastic-looking Assassin builds recently (Appointment in Damascus for example), but Psychic Assassin is just not one of them. DieInBasra
Recall is of course being cast at the starting gate, so leave that out of your calculations in the begining. He doesn't have zealous daggers on while he's not attacking either. But nice try.
The assassin needs to be hindered or esle he's going to be pissing someone off. The monk has to guardian useing it on the person the assassin is attacking vs someone getting raged in the face by a axe warrior. The assasin then presses "tab", and then "space" and continues on his merry way. The assasin doesn't care who he's attacking because he can be auto attacking and still interupting someone esle, unlike a Choking Gas or TS/EF assassin, so guardian doesn't even effect him. If he's blind he drops back and switches out of Zealous while interupting at discretion, so the blind doesn't do much and his monks don't have to remove it. You completely overesimate Temple Strike outside of random arena. Draw condition WILL be run by everyone and thier mothers, so the dazed won't be as awesome as it was when you were rocking Mo/E's in the random arena. You speak of this guy getting destroyed by gaurdian when his interrupts go through it and he can switch targets at will, and then name one example that will get destroyed by it, and then another that get destoyed Draw Conditions and can only interupt every 12 seconds. Yeah, I misunderstood you with the energy, but you still don't make sense.
Siren
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Originally Posted by DieInBasra
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He can't use a 10E spell when he can't connect through Guardian.
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Yes, because Tab+Space always works to find a new target and the A.I. path-finding always performs promptly and accurately, especially in the middle of the battlefield.|
Yeah, I misunderstood you with the energy, but you still don't make sense.
I spelled it out for you. It makes perfect sense. People here are talking about Monks wasting resources on countering his build, but what people don't realize is that the Monk is only wasting resources if the build he's countering uses less energy, less time, less set-up, etc., than the Monk's counter. And look at how the energy consumption (i.e., the resource consumption) of both builds breaks down: Psychic Assassin uses 70E. Monk counters with 5E. I'm proving my argument through high-school level math (hell, you'd probably find this comparison crap in middle school). Who is using more resources there? Who is using their energy more efficiently? Who is wasting resources? It sure as hell isn't the Monk. Oh, you mean the Monk used Guardian to counter a target that didn't pose a threat? So that's why the Monk is wasting resources? He's using 5E to shutdown a character. That's not much of a waste. And I'd love for the Psychic Assassin to have to switch targets. It just means he's not having any energy coming back in while he's finding a new target and getting in range, which further castrates his interrupt potential. DieInBasra
TAB SPACE. He doesn't give a shit who is new target is, so all he has to do is hit two buttons. Or, if not that, the closest target button and space. It's not like it'll take more then two seconds to make it there, and he's already going 15% faster. The monk is WASTEING a guardian on someone who less then a second later won't be attacked anymore.
And I already explained to you, the assasin doesn't use as much energy as you're trying to make out he does. It takes him 15e to prepare while maintaining ONE enchantment. The 15e for recall was at the begining,so his energy pool is full by the time you meet the enemy so you don't count that, nor do you count the loss from zealous daggers while not attacking. The energy loss from Recall is worth the ability to return to your backline instantly. But really, As well as that, you're not spamming the skill, you're interupting key skills. This example is retarded anyway, a gaurdian has never stopped a warrior from training his adren, it won't stop an assassin from gaining energy. The only way you can hinder the assassin is by not hindering the axe anyway, which is a fair trade because the assassin can still work from range while the axe can't.
Siren
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Originally Posted by DieInBasra
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Or hitting C+Space? What makes you think the casters will be grouped together enough for that to work?
Even those two seconds will be critical in a build of this nature, because those are two extra seconds (on top of roughly 15 seconds of reduced regen) he's not getting energy back.
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Natalie, you're really stretching for rebuttals now, aren't you? I'm fully aware of the stats for Guardian. You can see my previous replies when I actually listed the stats:|
This example is retarded anyway, a gaurdian has never stopped a warrior from training his adren, it won't stop an assassin from gaining energy. The only way you can hinder the assassin is by not hindering the axe anyway, which is a fair trade because the assassin can still work from range while the axe can't.
Retarded? Hardly. Block enchants are one of a Warrior's worst nightmares. It's why debuffs are so important to support melee fighters. Hell, if you want a really fast and easy example, activate Bonetti's and see how many times Griffons can hit you, versus how many times you're getting +5 energy. You may argue that a character can just debuff the Assassin's target? If the Assassin isn't looking for anything but energy regen, it'd be a waste for the teammate to use a debuff. Hell, with team support, why even bother getting up close and personal? Why not just have a Necro Blood Rit him? And for that matter, since you can do this from range...why not just go primary Mesmer (like swordfisher's Psy.Dis build in the Mesmer sub-forum here) so you can use runes for the skill? And how can the Assassin work from range (using Psy.Dis) if he has no energy in reserve, and very little energy coming in through regen/attacking?
NatalieD
It may astonish you to learn this, Siren, but Guardian has a 5-6 second duration and - when cast by a boon protector as it likely will be - costs 7e and blocks about 40% of attacks.
Your "high-school math" arguments apparently assume that Guardian has a 100% block rate and infinite duration, and are therefore laughable garbage.
Siren
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Originally Posted by NatalieD
Your "high-school math" arguments apparently assume that Guardian has a 100% block rate and infinite duration, and are therefore laughable garbage. |
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Originally Posted by Siren previously in the thread
A Monk casted a spammable 5E spell on his target. 5 energy. 5 second duration. 2 second recharge.
By the way, I still stand by what I'm saying, because even costing 7E means absolutely nothing.
A Monk needs to maintain Divine Boon to reach 1/10 of the energy cost of this entire build. Just think about that for a second, then try to tell me this build is energy efficient. Or that it strains Monk resources. Guardian gives a 40-50% block rate. That's all you'd need to gimp the Psychic Assassin energy return. The 5-6 second duration is nothing new. Guardian recharges in 2 seconds. Yes, a Monk casting Guardian, a skill whose duration is 3x as long as its recharge, is really wasting resources, especially when that Guardian can gimp or damn near shutdown the entire Psychic Assassin build. lol And let's not forget how a Monk Support Necro can provide that Boon-Prot with something as simple as Blood Rit to effectively double the Boon-Prot's energy regen. 7E being an issue? No. And it's not some outlandish idea to have a Monk Support Necro running Blood Rit, considering that Monk Support Necro is usually specced with some WarHate anyway, which usually entails keeping tabs on his own Monk(s). Keep trying, Natalie. Please, keep trying. I'm having a blast here. You're making it way too easy. lol
Hella Good
I don't think Psychic Distraction should be used by non-Mes primaries. In fact, a Ranger with a poison prep and some spirits is the only alternative I can think of. Again, the use of Assassin interrupts while your target is under Migraine or Conundrum makes much more sense to me than using Mesmer interrupts while shutting down your attacks.
DieInBasra
Alright Siren, here ya go- if you don't cast recall at the begining, you intterupt every skill you can, and the enemy is spread out beyond agrro bubbles of each other, and if you truly think a boon prot can throw around a gaurdian like it's nothing when there are other significant threats around, then yes, this build does suck. Happy?
Siren
You had a day and some odd hours to reply and all you give me is this? If you can't reply with an actual counter to my points, don't bother replying. Or reply and just concede the points. Right now you've done neither.
Originally Posted by DieInBasra
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Quote: you intterupt every skill you can ...you don't spam Psy.Dis to interrupt every skill you can. You spam Psy.Dis to minimize the amount of time your other skills are disabled, because if you don't...
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and the enemy is spread out beyond agrro bubbles of each other
...your mobility and by extension, energy return, is going to be gimped even further because multiple targets very likely will not be standing right next to you, as per the typical flow of combat, which enables... Quote:
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