The Dilemma

I'm buyin it. Damn right.

I hate the worlds at war thing much as anyone else. Not fair that my guildies have to hope that Rnub or someone else goes and kicks Euro butt just so that we can go slaughter some environment.

If you don't like the way the game is going, don't buy Factions. Its a dollar vote, and its yours to spend. Maybe chapter three or four will be more to your liking.

I personally do not see the huge issue with picking a side. Pick whichever one is doing worse and cap your guild a city!

Course, I'm a minmaxer, so what can I say.

This is like those "eles are broken" threads. Eles aren't broken, their players are.

So, in conclusion: either don't buy it (which is not a hostile comment), or do what the rest of your guild does.

Unfortunately, you are trying to Role-Play in a game that has absolutely nothing to do with role-playing. I completely understand where you are coming from, but you are not going to find any meaningful choices (the single most important element of role-playing) or a deep storyline in any of Guild Wars' incarnations. Guild Wars is about getting a group of people together and bashing the hell out of monsters or humans at picturesque locations. The concept of character customization that is typical of RPGs has been twisted around to meet the needs of the extreme powergamer via the ability to change your attributes and your skill set at will. The game is all about maximizing the killing power of a group of human-controlled bots. Any attempt on your part to provide any amount of individuality to these bots or role-play such individuals within the quest structure of the game will lead you to nothing but disappointment.

At it's core, Guild Wars is a Co-operative and Competitive Online Action/Adventure game, and a fabulous one at that. Treat it as one, and you'll be happy. There's no role-playing here to be found.

I think they're trying to find a way to fit in RPing though, since quite a few ppl have shown interest in it. Gaile mentioned something about it replying to a thread a while back. Basically she said...well...pretty much what my first sentence already said

As noble as the intention may be, you can't just "fit in" RP elements into a game that has been fundamentally designed as an action game. What Gaile was talking about was probably RP districts in which players desperate enough to RP in this game would be able to hang around and attempt to have in-character conversations. Just look at the "quest" structure of Guild Wars, and compare it against the quest structure of a real RPG like Baldur's Gate or KOTOR or Jade Empire. GW's "quests" are nothing more than a Table Of Contents for the player to find out the next set of monsters to kill.

Ok, I have a couple of questions..
#1. What happens when too many people or guilds favour a particular faction? Will there be some kind of balance or wont this matter?
#2. Can I choose different factions with different characters?

i think it will be interesting when people go:

Player1: Hey guys lets all go kill horse/lizard/kappa thingies!
Player2: Oh yeah lets go!!!
Player3: Hey im up for it man.
Player4-8: YEAH!!!
Player3: Wait this chump, player 2 is wearing Luxon 15k armor! TURTLEHUGGER!!!
Player2: I just want to get this mission done....
Player4-8: GO BACK TO YOUR JADE OCEAN LOSER!!!
Player2: .........
Player1: Lmao, Luxon are super gai.
Player2: I already did all of the quests for the Kurzick though...
Player: Player1, kick this Luxon chump....

Or in town

One: WTS This!
Two: Sure ill buy it.
One: How many?
Two: A Kajillion
One: Meet at storage.
Two: Okay
One: WTF Your a gai gothic loser!!! YOU KURZICK BICH!!!!
Two: I just want my stuff, im paying you!
One: #!$% YOU!!!!!
Trading Session Cancelled
Player One has Ignored you.
Two: .....
One: HEY EVERYONE TWO IS A KURZICK BICH!!!!
Everyone: OMFG GET THE #@$% OUT YOU KURZICK!!!

my reaction would be:
/sigh

I am also Pro-Kurzick.
what would you rate people like this lol...

LOL. thats jst funny. somehow i dont think thats gona happen TOO much, or to quite that extent

Solution: take your armor off in towns or go to cantha and buy the cheapest armor set (cantha is neutral no?)

I do understand the fact that those trying to role-play (myself) are inevitably going to be disappointed. Is that right and fair? In my opinion, no. I'm someone who actually reads the quest-logs, watches cutscenes (except when I've seen them 237 times), and actually follows the storyline. True, it's possible to go through the game clicking "Yes," "Accept Reward," and completely missing the details of the story. Even though Guild Wars is not your usual RPG, there's no reason to give up role-playing. Although I wish A-Net did cater to role-player's interests a bit more, I honestly have no complaints. The game still rocks, and is still an ingenious concept. Regarding the Luxon/Kurzick spat, notice this:

"In a land divided, unity is power." - on the back of the Pre-Order Package case.

So it is unity that we will strive to attain, whether or not it means unity between the two factions. So my point is that the game has a storyline, and if you choose to, you can indeed role-play. I'm currently working on a piece of creative writing that illustrates our stand in this "dilemma," and will put a link to it here when I'm finished.

I have just finished writing it, and I took a few screenies to go along with it, too. Here's that link:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...72#post1221972

i think the three factions are the Kurzicks, Luxons, and Zaishen, Canthan is what they all are. unfortunately, the Kurzicks get the super ugly kids...... bald front, hair back.

The funny part is that, when anet first came out with the game. It stated on the pre-order box it foucas on rpg .

I personaly think anet has not taken the time to really work on the rpg. Hack and slash will only take you so far as a game. With out good rpg the game will only be grind. Grind is the worst part of any rpg game. RPG players don't call it grind we call it hack and slash. I mean you can only make the AI that much harder. But you find people soon getting bored even with the harder AI. Why because it is mindless hack and slash. You need to make the game have strong story. That is what rpg is all about. All the pretty graphics will only last so long.

Anet did say they are looking into ways to improve the rpg. I have yet to see it. The only thing I seen get better is the dialog box. But it was ony use for one quest and mossions.

I also think that GW will always behinde wow in the mmoprg market. I also think when sony and other game compies lunch their games. GW will have a hard time competing with the new games when they come. I think must or all rpg players will jump ship. I am sure of it.

You know what makes me feel old? I'll tell you... It's when I read a conversation like this, and I start to discuss roleplaying before "roleplaying games" meant computer games, and then I realize that most of the people that I'll be talking to don't remember a time before such things.

Okay. I'm old. I can accept that. Now, young'uns, get ready to hear one of those I-walked-fifty-miles-to-school-in-the-snow-with-no-shoes-stories.

Roleplaying isn't something that's done to you, it's something you do. Kids these days... they want everything handed to them.

What do you want A-net to hand you before you "can" RP? It's not up to them. It's up to you. The only thing that you need to roleplay is a setting that's evocative enough to spur the imagination. Does GW have that? I'd say yes.

I didn't say you had to have quests that gave you choices. I didn't even say you had to have a good story. Heck, sometimes a badly handled story makes people want to expand on it more than a good one does. GW gives you more tools than you even need to roleplay; You have a persona which you have enough control over to identify with. You have a world that's interesting to explore, both physically and otherwise. That's enough.

You people that learned "roleplaying" from computer games often don't actually know the meaning of the word. RPing doesn't require experience points, character advancement, quest rewards, monster variety, or any of that crap. If the people you're RPing with are good enough, and YOU'RE good enough, you can have an extremely satisfying time if your characters are all sitting in the same comfy room, not slaying anything or going anywhere.

So is GW an RPG? I'm not sure. That term, when applied to computer games, seems to mean a game that's based on acquiring loot and XP to constantly increase the little numbers on your character sheet. Maybe GW isn't an RPG by the standards of the genre, then, but you sure as Hell can roleplay in it. Anyone that says otherwise either doesn't understand what that means, doesn't like to roleplay anyway, or is just plain lazy.

Now that I've said all that... Here comes the interesting bit...

I don't thing GW is very easy to roleplay in.

Why? Well, I've thought about that a lot, but leave it to my loving spouse to easily come up with the reason; There's too much stuff to DO.

Some of the best online roleplaying I've ever experienced was in chat forums. There's nothing to do there but talk, so the roleplaying is intense.

In GW, however, there are plenty of things, both PvP and PvE, to keep you honestly busy. Are you going to roleplay (say "pretend") to be a merchant, when you're so busy actually selling wares in Lion's Arch? Nope.

Can you play a great and powerful mage, questing for ancient secret knowledge, when you know that Grawl will kick your pale butt and that spell you want can be found on a Minotaur corpse? Hmm.

Roleplaying... good roleplaying... comes from idle time, and GW is actually a good enough game that it doesn't really give you much of that.

Still, though, I know the background and motivations of my characters, and I'd rather hear about someone's hatred for Luxons than their hatred for Iraqis or Seinfeld, so, I guess I'm one of those folks who's always going to be disappointed in GW. But if you're going to tell me that I "can't" roleplay here, then you're probably the reason I turn off the local chat channel these days. ^_^

Man, an MMO with warring factions that you must choose between? What an awful idea. I'm glad no other MMOs force you onto a side in a war....

On top of that a war that is only fueled by hate and sence less killing! I will have no part in it. I also wonder what this teachies younger kids too.

many games have "factions" and you must pick one side or the other, nothing new

i think people who max faction with one side or the other should be KoS(Kill on Sight) in the other city(s), makeing the choice that much more important
and at the same time stoping the "flip flop"

if you killed ..... 500,000 dutch lets say, you think they would just let you say im sorry let me in?

I think this would be cool also. They could have given us several things like that in this little Canthan refugee saga we have now, but they just had us go "DURR KILL EM ALL" instead.

Imagine going up to Firstwatch Sergio, and saying, "hey, so-and-so's kid is missing, the refugees verge on violence, go out and do your job," or going to the son and daughter in LA and saying, "hey, you little brats, your parents are looking for you. Go home, or people are going to get killed because of you." (though did anyone notice that when you wipe out the other settlement, the leader says 'good job' and pats you on the back and seems to completely forget about their offspring? "Who? My daughter? What?")

I guess it's just a little extra add-in to hold us over until the release, but I wish they would have options like this in the actual factions release.

Didn't they say that a neutral faction would be available as well? Atleast I thought I read that a while back.

It wont be just a war between thse factions, it will inevitibly be a war between alliances as well, even within a chosen faction.

By this I mean there will be will Alliances trying their best to keep control of certain outposts, as Im sure it will come down to 3/4 BIG alliances who control certain out posts the most.

For the large part, I think getting the community passionate about something like this is a good thing, Its called Guild Wars, people expect a war..

However, apart from their looks there doesnt seem to be anything between them, so why get all worked up about it? just play one side till you done all the quests then play the other side! simple as that.

3/4 months down the line it wont even matter and you wont even care which side is winning or losing.. you wont feel permenantly attached to either side.

If you do permenantly attach yourself to one side, then the only loser will be yourself, as you will lose out on half the game.

Agreed!
I think most of the gamers probably don't even know what a good old-fashioned tabletop RPG is, let alone have played one.
Even games like Oblivion - slated to be at the top of the RPG genre, is not truly RPG.
And now as I am writing this I remember that I've had this conversation with someone on these boards already.

Most of the people who are missing the fun of "rping" are those who don't bother to read the quest log, skip the cut scenes, and leave their imagination completely to one side the moment they log on to the computer.
You need to be able to put your characters in context, you need to be able to really "respect" them to enjoy GW or indeed any other computerised RPG. It's like having to choose a weapon in TES, sure you can do all of them, but if you want to make one YOUR weapon, you have to really pick one. Many people no doubt simply say - hey I want to wack a sword around, that's what fantasy rping is about - and that is that, they wack the sword around and get it levelled up and don't really think about it. However RPGs are not about owning AI or even other players.

When I started playing Oblivion I thought I would start by giving the bow a go, simply because I thought my lovely little elf wasn't the sort to be getting blood splattered across her clothes. It was hard not to revert to the sword - that was what I had been using in Morrowind, but I stuck with it and I can truly say that I think my character, Raven, is thankful for it - she is a brilliant archer

Whether you wish to role-play or not, really is beside the question in the general enjoyment of this particular game, everything is there for you to help you define your character both in terms of play style and "personal" style. Mesmers look posh and snotty - my mesmer is very, very posh, and stylish I should mention. Her greatest achievement is her wardrobe. My elementalist could be Cynn's twin, and my monk is a very softly spoke, and generally nice girl. I actually watch the movies when my monk is team leader just to hear THAT voice - which so isn't her's - and laugh myself silly.

Enjoyment of the game shouldn't be measured by what Anet does and doesn't do, but by what you make of it by meeting new people, playing with your guild and your friends, and most of all trying to enjoy and appreciate what HAS been put into the game and thinking of how YOU can improve that FOR YOURSELF.

I agree that in terms of the storyline, GW is a little shallow, but honestly in an MMORPG how many "heros" can you have? Surely we can all be Chosen but we can't all be the "Nerevarrene".

EDIT: Edited to remove the length of the quote, apologies Rhedd.

Good discussion about the nature of role-playing, and why computer games can never replace your own imagination as the best source of stories...

But if the "Kill All _______", are any indication of the future, our choices will have dramatic and "real" effects on the game world. And that makes me very excited...

Back to the idea of rayne There should be alternative "peaceful" missions that also give XP, so those that don't want to take part in the Faction Wars still have alternatives to earn rewards.

I am eternally hopeful of this fact.

Here is my 2 cents:

IT IS JUST A GAME! Pick a side, play it, and if you don't like or get bored then just start playing for the other side. I plan on doing both sides. Will it take time to do? Sure it will. But that is the up side. I played Prophecies for just a few months before I finished just about everything. Hopefully Factions with its 2 sides will take much more time to complete, that would be a good thing.

"Just my opinion, I could be wrong"-Dennis Miller

that is what I am talking about, If I go to war give me a reason to go to war. let me choices to go to war or not. let my choice affect the out come. Let me learn from my mistakes that is what rpg is all about.

I agree, similarly I dont feel like fighting a war for Kurzicks just because they're being invaded by a bunch of pirates, or the Luxons just because their ego is so big they have to rub it on other people's face, frankly I just don't give a crap about their agendas.

But if either the Luxons or Kurzicks invade my gold storage... Then it gets personal... I will definitely be going to WAR. There WILL be HELL ...to pay!

I don't really like the story line as I saw it, but it was just a preview. It can only get better in my opinion. So I took a different approach... that approach being, I like pirates, Maddox likes pirates, and with that said: Turtle Clan, MOVE OUT!

Ahh, the old it's-just-a-game-eyerolling argument. Surely the most enlightened argument against roleplaying ever devised by man! It's also great justification for abandoning parties mid-quest, and griefing of all sorts. And, on top of that, the soothing blue of the eye-rolly face is good for curing headaches! Genius. ^_^

I find this an interesting thread. I especially like Diablo's (tm) opinion that he'll only go to war if someone hurts him personally. Neat! Interesting the way it's harder to get people to support a war in a video game than it is to get them to support one in real life. ^_^

Like I, and many others, have said before; You haven't been given a good reason to fight yet, so if you feel like you don't have a reason, you DON'T... yet. I'm sure that when the game is actually released and you start playing it, there will be more motivation than whether or not you like the color black.

And yeah, Mordakai, I'd noticed that even in the tiny "Advertiquests", Factions quests have offered us more ability to actually change the world (the thing angshuman says is essential for "RPing") than anything in Prophesies. Good trend!


Lady Lozza; I thought we all WERE the Nerevarine... I know I am! heheh. So do you use my faces for Morrowind? Do you?! ^_^ Oh, and if you don't mind, I added you to my friends list in-game. Maybe I'll remember to say hi sometime.

LOL! You know what I'm talking about. In Morrowind you were THE hero because it was a single player game. In an MMO you can't be THE hero, you can be a hero but not THE hero. My Nerevarine was a dark elf female and that combo made for some amusement throughout the playing of the game

Np, I'll do the same, nice to talk to like minded people every now and then.

Well, this is exactly the point, neither side have the moral high ground!

Your role in Factions, as the story line goes, is to BRING THEM BOTH TOGETHER!

in the mean time your PERSONAL agenda is to gain access to these special extra content in each of the different areas to get the best armour to make the most gold to unlock all the skills..or whatever it is you want from the game.

and Because neither side you fight for is any better than the other you SWAP SIDES as often as often as you please to experience the game-play content on both sides of the line.

You need to Change your attitude from one of..

"I must pour my heart and soul into one side"...

To an attitude of..

"how can I use these to waring factions to my personal advantage, my Guilds advantage AND my alliance advantage"

Once you look at it in this way suddenly it doesn't matter a damn which side your fighting for... because your fighting for yourself, for your guild and for your alliance!! to hell with the rest of them!

You miss understand. My 'Its just a game" stance is not griefing, leaving or anything else you decribed. I am just saying that people take the story line waaaaay to serious. These people that are complaining about the "war" between factions are probably the same ones who play games like GTA:San Andreas and found nothing wrong with killing cops, picking up prostitutes, stealing cars and the other countless crimes you do in that game.

Don't you realize that when you played through GW:Prophecies you were at 'war' with the White Mantle, the Stone Summit, and the Undead? YOu didn't get to choose sides in Prophecies. You fought for the "good" side. But who's to say the Stone Summit or the White Mantle didn't have their reasons for fighting against you?The only difference that Factions presents is that this time, YOU GET TO CHOOSE who to fight for. Is that so bad and horrible and morally wrong?

Those are my reasons for saying that ITS JUST A GAME. Don't take it so damned serious. I am not trying to be an ass or anything but my advice is that if you really, truly have a problem with the storyline of Factions then don't buy it or play it.

No dilema here, kurzicks own anyway

It's not, I think the more choices we have, the better!

That's why I hope their are real choices for those who don't want to take sides, ie, neutral quests that can only be taken if you have no faction or something.

Agreed. the more choices the better. However I doubt that there will be neutral quests based on the nature and even the name "Factions". Maybe Chapter 3 will be more open-ended with even more and more choices.

Well, there is the "third" side: the Canthans. They have their own armor, so I suspect there will be some neutral content, although to what extent...

I hope Chapter 3 is more PvE focused.

Why pick only one side? Accumulate faction for the side your guild chooses. Sink all earned faction into favor for your alliance so you are at 0 faction for each side. Go back and accumulate faction for the opposite side. Sink all earned faction into yourself (armor pieces or whatever). Go back and forth as you maximize your faction for one side. Essentially, every time to spend all your faction, you get a choice of which side you want to earn faction for again.