Sundering Mods - That's Got To Change - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Spoony

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2006

Just chillin', Playing Gw

Rurik Is A Suicidal Maniac [ftw] - Recruiting people for HA

07 Apr 2006 at 11:17 - 1

Well, they say the first sentence is always the hardest. Ok i got it behind me. Well the thing is, i was interested in the thread by Sixty.
Linky - http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...d.php?t=118344

With not commenting no further, as just saying that what Sixty says is right, and i think it should be changed. My suggestion is to change 10% sundering mod into at LEAST 15% one. Hope u do agree with me

stickyballs

Banned

Join Date: Feb 2006

American Servers

Sin Squad [SIN]

W/

07 Apr 2006 at 13:11 - 2

I don't know if they should make it better as then people would complain that maybe other mods might need a boost. But yes, Sundering SUCKS and it wouldn't hurt it to be a little better...

Spoony

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2006

Just chillin', Playing Gw

Rurik Is A Suicidal Maniac [ftw] - Recruiting people for HA

07 Apr 2006 at 15:23 - 3

Glad people know what i mean. Everyone else wanna sign in

?

Plague

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

N/E

07 Apr 2006 at 15:29 - 4

Personally, I think 30% is going overboard.

Both sundering and Axe Mastery do need a boost, though.

I'd say, personally, make Sundering's maximum be (Chance: 12%) and have Axe Mastery's be (Chance: 16%).

Sundering is basically on all the time, as is Axe Mastery, but it's slightly more beneficial (at some att levels at least) to be getting that extra few % points of armor penetration rather than just raising your axe's possible damage a point or two.

Axe Mastery, you would think, would be more beneficial as a random chance boost for skills, like most other wands or staffs or what have you. But, Warriors don't use their skills as much as a caster, obviously, so having a measely 10% chance for that skill to gain any benefit isn't cutting it, IMO.

Spoony

Krytan Explorer

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Just chillin', Playing Gw

Rurik Is A Suicidal Maniac [ftw] - Recruiting people for HA

07 Apr 2006 at 15:34 - 5

Yeah , well Id say max both for axe mastery and sundering - 15%. That should do the trick *edits post from 30% to 15* , sry about that but i felt like it was kind of an absurd that sundering is so weak, while other upgrades (ex. vampiric , zealous) take the lead.

Vilaptca

Pre-Searing Vanquisher

Join Date: Jun 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

07 Apr 2006 at 16:46 - 6

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plague

I'd say, personally, make Sundering's maximum be (Chance: 12%) and have Axe Mastery's be (Chance: 16%).

Sundering is basically on all the time, as is Axe Mastery, but it's slightly more beneficial (at some att levels at least) to be getting that extra few % points of armor penetration rather than just raising your axe's possible damage a point or two.

Axe Mastery, you would think, would be more beneficial as a random chance boost for skills, like most other wands or staffs or what have you. But, Warriors don't use their skills as much as a caster, obviously, so having a measely 10% chance for that skill to gain any benefit isn't cutting it, IMO.

Axe Mastery's chance already goes up to 20% just like every other attribute raising mod on weapons.

Raxxman

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2005

TEOC

W/N

07 Apr 2006 at 16:56 - 7

If sundering was permi 10% AP it still wouldn't be over powered

When fighting a caster you'd be effectively taking 6 armour off them, ranger 7 and warriors 10-12 depending on sheild.

Firey/icy/shocking/ebon hilts still offer better armour pen vs warriors (-20 armour as almost every warrior uses glads), while life stealing offers a flat 3 point life steal per hit.

Sidra

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Mar 2006

CT

NITE

R/

07 Apr 2006 at 19:53 - 8

Vampiric can go up to 5... and sundering only does 10% more armor penetration if you hit them, and even then, 1/10 tries will get you sundering, idealy. Your post doesn't make much sense to me, Raxx.

btw, /signed. Sundering to me is one of the coolest mods... just needs to be un-screwed a bit, hehe.

Mandy Memory

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2005

USA

Xen of Sigils [XoO]

W/

07 Apr 2006 at 20:34 - 9

A constant 10% penetraition would not be overpowering as shown by the hornbow. (I still wouldn't use it)

Ensign

Just Plain Fluffy

Join Date: Dec 2004

Berkeley, CA

Idiot Savants

07 Apr 2006 at 20:35 - 10

20/20 Sundering and 20% Furious would be attractive.

Eet GnomeSmasher

Banned

Join Date: Apr 2005

In my head

07 Apr 2006 at 20:49 - 11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raxxman

If sundering was permi 10% AP it still wouldn't be over powered

When fighting a caster you'd be effectively taking 6 armour off them, ranger 7 and warriors 10-12 depending on sheild.

Firey/icy/shocking/ebon hilts still offer better armour pen vs warriors (-20 armour as almost every warrior uses glads), while life stealing offers a flat 3 point life steal per hit.

Why would 10% AP take off 6 AR off a caster and then 10-12 AR off a warrior?!
10% AP would take off 10 AR just as advertised no matter what the armor is.

But the damage done will be different. 10% AP on a caster with 60 AR will do 118.9% more damage. That's way too good.

EDIT: Also, a constant 10% AP will make you even better than a 10 strength warrior since not only will you do 10% AP on attack skills but on your regular attacks as well. Definately would be overpowered if it was a constant 10 AP.

Rhuobhe

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

Less Crying is Key [kThx]

07 Apr 2006 at 20:54 - 12

I would like to see sundering's max % increased to a 20% chance or 15/20% AP

I would also like to see Furious increased to 20%

If this is done, all current mods should double (ie a 10% furious should turn into a 20% at the time of an update) just to avoid a market upset.

LifeInfusion

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

in the midline

E/Mo

07 Apr 2006 at 20:56 - 13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

20/20 Sundering and 20% Furious would be attractive.

I'd take furious over sundering ANY day of the week ... because it is more flexible.
================================================== ======================

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mandy Memory

A constant 10% penetraition would not be overpowering as shown by the hornbow. (I still wouldn't use it)

10% Armor penetration sucks EVEN if it is 15 or 20% chance. That is only one in five hits. Vampiric is a consistent 5 damage aginst any armor, even those high armor bosses that seem to take 1's and 3's form every attack you do even with strength at 10 or 12.

To see how much armor penetration counts, you just have to use 10 strength. 10% armor penetration is overated. The only reason to use 10 strength instead of 8 or 9 is to boost skills as Endure pain, Battle rage, dolyak signet, and other PvE useful skills. For PvP, it is just for the consistent added damage, because tactics doesnt cut it for PvP as riposte and defense stances aren't the most useful in pvP.

Eet GnomeSmasher

Banned

Join Date: Apr 2005

In my head

07 Apr 2006 at 21:14 - 14

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

Vampiric is a consistent 5 damage aginst any armor, even those high armor bosses that seem to take 1's and 3's form every attack you do even with strength at 10 or 12.

You forget that strength doesnt apply to regular attacks, so the 1's and 3's arent the result of armor penetration factored in.

But I totally agree that Vampiric is much better than a sundering mod...even if it was 20% chance.

Mandy Memory

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2005

USA

Xen of Sigils [XoO]

W/

07 Apr 2006 at 21:31 - 15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher

Why would 10% AP take off 6 AR off a caster and then 10-12 AR off a warrior?!
10% AP would take off 10 AR just as advertised no matter what the armor is.

But the damage done will be different. 10% AP on a caster with 60 AR will do 118.9% more damage. That's way too good.

EDIT: Also, a constant 10% AP will make you even better than a 10 strength warrior since not only will you do 10% AP on attack skills but on your regular attacks as well. Definately would be overpowered if it was a constant 10 AP.

No it wouldnt, it would take off 10% as advertised. 10% of 60 is 6. 10% of 100 is 10.
Also hornbows alraedy have a constant 10%AP and they are not overpowered.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

20/20 Sundering and 20% Furious would be attractive.

/signed

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

10% Armor penetration sucks EVEN if it is 15 or 20% chance. That is only one in five hits. Vampiric is a consistent 5 damage aginst any armor, even those high armor bosses that seem to take 1's and 3's form every attack you do even with strength at 10 or 12.

Thats because strength only applies to the natural damage part of your attack skills[because the +dmg part ignores armor]. All those normal attacks gain no benifit from strength.

I would agree with either 10%(50-100% chance) or 20/20. While we are at it
fix furious, of <attribute>, and zealous[on hammers].

Then again, perhaps multiple sunderings would be nice.
5/80
10/40
20/20
40/10
80/5
[All average out to 4%AP]
This way you wouldnt sound stupid by saying buying 10/10 sundering mod (Since all of the sundering mods are 10/x)

Spoony

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2006

Just chillin', Playing Gw

Rurik Is A Suicidal Maniac [ftw] - Recruiting people for HA

07 Apr 2006 at 21:55 - 16

Ok guys, enough of this debate:P. Ill just do a new thread, and ill welcome "/signed" in that

, this ones starting to be much of a debate of what percent would be best, and what upgardes suck and which dont.

Eet GnomeSmasher

Banned

Join Date: Apr 2005

In my head

07 Apr 2006 at 21:59 - 17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mandy Memory

No it wouldnt, it would take off 10% as advertised. 10% of 60 is 6. 10% of 100 is 10.
Also hornbows alraedy have a constant 10%AP and they are not overpowered.

Hmm you're right about the armor penetration and I was wrong.

But I still think a constant 10% AP would be overpowered. As I said before it would be like having 10 strength except even better since it affects regular attacks too.

Align

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2005

Protectors of Awesome[AWE]

W/

07 Apr 2006 at 22:16 - 18

Vamp deals 3(5) damage and heals you for the same amount, with 1 degen, whereas a constant sundering would give you a 2-3 damage boost, end of story. Doesn't sound very overpowered...

Eet GnomeSmasher

Banned

Join Date: Apr 2005

In my head

07 Apr 2006 at 23:07 - 19

As long as sundering doesnt affect attack skills (does it?) then I'll agree.

Raxxman

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2005

TEOC

W/N

08 Apr 2006 at 10:00 - 20

Even if it did, increased dammage for attack skills it is not significant in contrast to other mods. Vampiric does a flat dammage (max 3 for swords and axes, 5 for hammers and bows) which is lifesteal and unavoidable.

Elemental is a bit more varied as certain armours protect vs elements better, but generally elemental gives a huge 20 armour point penetration vs warrior armours.

10% sundering at all times would give you a minor amount of bonus dammage vs all types, what you'd have would be a weapon that is a little bit more effective than the norm on all targets, but inferior at specific times to other mods.

The way I'd like sundering to work is instead of a % chance for sundering you have a % value of sundering, going up to 10%.

Personally I'd still not use sundering over my fav mod, zealous, as the energy management from the mod is way too useful for me.

Spoony

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2006

Just chillin', Playing Gw

Rurik Is A Suicidal Maniac [ftw] - Recruiting people for HA

08 Apr 2006 at 10:15 - 21

Perhaps, it would be a good idea , as raxxman said, to make sundering(and maybe furious on the way) a Value of %, instead of chance to do % +.

What do you guys think?

Align

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2005

Protectors of Awesome[AWE]

W/

08 Apr 2006 at 11:01 - 22

Same thing as constant effect, isn't it?

Hunter Sharparrow

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2006

Jeepers Kreepers

R/Mo

08 Apr 2006 at 12:19 - 23

I think a constant 10% would be fine and not overpowered. The Horn bow has a constant 10% AP and it only gives 2-3 more pts damage versus enemies with high end armor. On a sword, wand, rod and staff it would probably be 1-2 since they only do up to 22 instead of the 28 a bow does. An axe would range from 1 or even 0 up to 3 since they have such a wide damage range. Hammers, of course, would do the most at about 3-5 but at the cost of slow attack speed and loss of benefits from not having a shield. As for balance, everyone can use it so noone gets any kind of unfair advantage. This includes the enemies using the effects as well.

zoozoc

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Beaverton/OR

Disciples of Birkler [BIR]

10 Apr 2006 at 04:52 - 24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hunter Sharparrow

I think a constant 10% would be fine and not overpowered. The Horn bow has a constant 10% AP and it only gives 2-3 more pts damage versus enemies with high end armor. On a sword, wand, rod and staff it would probably be 1-2 since they only do up to 22 instead of the 28 a bow does. An axe would range from 1 or even 0 up to 3 since they have such a wide damage range. Hammers, of course, would do the most at about 3-5 but at the cost of slow attack speed and loss of benefits from not having a shield. As for balance, everyone can use it so noone gets any kind of unfair advantage. This includes the enemies using the effects as well.

I believe 10% AP all the time owuld be quite overpowered. The horn bow isnt because other drawbacks limit it and make the added 10% AP balanced, but on a warrior, it would be an added 2-4 dmg each hit, essentialy a vampiric without the health degen.

Wretchman Drake

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2005

Charr Carvings and [BeeR]

10 Apr 2006 at 05:05 - 25

LoL that GWG mod that has the Sundering Sux thing under his name would love this thread =p

Murder In China

Banned

Join Date: Sep 2005

/B/Chan

Looking for one

W/

10 Apr 2006 at 05:26 - 26

You mean Savio?

fallot

I'm the king

Join Date: Nov 2005

Aussie Trolling Crew: Grand Phallus and Chairman Pro Tempore

10 Apr 2006 at 05:38 - 27

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

I'd take furious over sundering ANY day of the week ... because it is more flexible.

I've been trying to figure out why people keep saying that. 10% chance for double adrenaline gain sounds just as shitty as 10% chance for 10% AP. I'd use it if I didnt want a vampric, zealous or elemental damage component but that never happens.

Hunter Sharparrow

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2006

Jeepers Kreepers

R/Mo

10 Apr 2006 at 10:04 - 28

It still wouldn't be "quite overpowering". The vampirc does more than take additional points away, it takes those points and add them to your health plus ignores armor so the -1 hp regen is justified. Now take the -1 hp degen away and that would make an overpowering mod. The 10% more damage is depended on the damage you do before it. If you only do 10 damage then you would do 11 where with a vampiric you would to 13 or 15 and get healed for 3 to 5. Currently if you want to do the 13 or 15 damage and don't care to get healed, use a weapon with the elemental damage the enemy is weak against. It adds more damage than a mod of 10% AP always would.