wammo's and FDS - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Silent Kitty

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2006

Netherlands

[TYW] "The Young World"

A/Me

09 Apr 2006 at 19:40 - 41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Permasiel

Only one reason to be a w/mo in pve : rebirth.

Of course you always end up in groups where people think it's the monk's job to rez.

I have no problem with that. The more reason they have to protect me.

Dead Monk = Failed mission

I can live with that.

lord of shadow

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2005

London

Currently looking

09 Apr 2006 at 19:59 - 42

everyone loves to hate wammos, until they need that droks ru because they have realised they are too lazy to actually play the game the first time.
then theres a w/e standing there runnign to droks.

ZOMG! not c00kie cutt3r n00b, only w/mo can run

i played through game with w/mo (among others) and now have every secondary for it. i still believe it to be one of the best character combinations for soloing, and the best for running (although w/e is a fun alternative)

w/mo does not make you a noob. calling other people one does

Q.E.D

Age

Hall Hero

Join Date: Jul 2005

California Canada/BC

STG Administrator

Mo/

09 Apr 2006 at 20:00 - 43

I am starting to see W/Mo being used agian in PvP as I do watch the Observer mode.This is in GvG as well and I even saw IQ use them.I use most of my warrior skills anyway the only /Mo I use are mend ailment and restorelife if PvPing I would use res sig.I use a sword as well something $exy about a sword Warrior and I don't use an FDS I am not sure what mine is.I don't think it is zealous cripple I think.I wouldn't critize the build only the person playing it.

Kyp Halcyon

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Sep 2005

USA

Vigil of the Forgotten Kings

Mo/Me

09 Apr 2006 at 20:09 - 44

I play warrior all the time, especially in the 8v8 atmosphere, w/? has its place, you set your role, and you choose the secondary to fit that role, if your team could use with you to be more self sustaining, usually heal sig does the job,

and FDS swords are great in pvp, if your going to kill that ugly monk on the other team, O NOES HE HAS JUDGES armor on, phyiscal resistance monks seem to be getting more common to since everyone knows most wars carry zealous mods

(youl'll note that it is not trivial to kill a boon-prot monk that knows what he is doing)

Pi_Numurian

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Numurian Vanguard

Me/R

09 Apr 2006 at 20:11 - 45

I'm not a huge fan of IDS or FDS due to there lack of uncustomed mods. They look cool but still. The IDS price has gone way down too

Overlord07

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2006

The Kingdom of Hell

W/E

09 Apr 2006 at 20:13 - 46

Quote:

Originally Posted by lord of shadow

everyone loves to hate wammos, until they need that droks ru because they have realised they are too lazy to actually play the game the first time.
then theres a w/e standing there runnign to droks.

ZOMG! not c00kie cutt3r n00b, only w/mo can run

i played through game with w/mo (among others) and now have every secondary for it. i still believe it to be one of the best character combinations for soloing, and the best for running (although w/e is a fun alternative)

w/mo does not make you a noob. calling other people one does

Q.E.D

While that makes sense to say that W/Mo are really good at running, it's wrong to say that W/E can't do the same job as a W/Mo. I mean, come on, hasen't anyone ever heard of using Earth or Water magic to avoid damage? So basicly, I agree. But W/E deserve their own bit of respect.

Evilsod

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2006

England

Lievs Death Squad [LDS]

09 Apr 2006 at 20:37 - 47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Permasiel

Only one reason to be a w/mo in pve : rebirth.

Of course you always end up in groups where people think it's the monk's job to rez.

Really i think its the monks job to keep you alive, once your dead your no longer their problem. Anyone with /Mo should have a res with them in areas with no ressurections shrines. A monk taking res is upto them.

W/Me are fun for running. Illusion of Weakness is basically a constant Endure Pain.

The only problem sometimes with Warrior runners (most been W/Mo of course) is that they don't seem to know there limits. Early game you can run anywhere and not take a point of damage (we all love Conjure Phantasm/Imagined Burden running around Ascalon). Later it becomes a bit trickier. Desert running however... i've been with a couple of runners through Elona who didn't seem to have the slightest bit of a tactic and just ran at things hoping the armour saw them through. Eventually i got bored and ran myself (2nd account) with my R/Mo. More strategy needed + more fun in general.

Cade

Academy Page

Join Date: Mar 2006

Knights of The Scorched Earth

W/

09 Apr 2006 at 20:52 - 48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Zardeone

Opinions are crap, math and facts are all that matters.

Wammos... whatever

Fiery Dragon Swords?
An FDS does fire elemental damage by default. Lets compare a perfect FDS of of fortitude with a perfect sundering longsword of fortitude.

Imagine you're a warrior and you have both these weapons. You're fighting another warrior. The other warrior uses full gladiator armour which has:
- 80 armour
- +20 armour vs physical

You use your sundering longsword to fight this guy. One in every 10 hits (I think it's even less than 1 in every 10), you will have a hit that has 10% armor penetration.
Your longsword does slashing damage which is physical.
Your enemy has 100 armour vs physical.
(correct me if I'm wrong because I'm not sure here...)
If you do that 1/10 hit, you'll hit him as if he has 90 armour. You will probably do a little more damage.
As I said before, it only happens once in every ten or more hits. Chances are, you hit a guy 100 times and you only get the sundering hit in once but whatever...

Now lets do the same with a fiery dragon sword.

The guy has 80 armour vs everything and +20 vs physical.
You do elemental damage so your FDS will bypass the "vs physical damage" with every hit you do.
You don't care about the extra +20 AL and you'll be fighting the guys 80 armour.

This should theoretically mean that your FDS has a 20% armour penetration on this guy on every hit (compared to the other sword) and is therefore at least 200 times better than a sundering longsword of anything.

I don't see why an FDS should be considered noob.

Maybe it's because so many wars use it on the fire islands =P

(I am an idiot, my calculations may be incorrect O.o)

Sundering is 10% armor penetration only 10% of the time.
Which means it'd treat him as if he had 90 armor only 10% of the time.

Average that off, and all a sundering sword does is treat them as if they had 99 armor.

-1 Armor. Umm... woot?

However, I have never used a FDS, but also don't see much of whats wrong with them.

If someone wants to use one, let them. Don't be a hater.
Instead of saying "OMG WTF!!! WHAT A n00b USING A FDS!!!1111oneoneone"
Why dont you say, "Hey cool looking sword, you should make sure not to use it on fire enemies though! ^_^"

Everyone on this game doesn't have to be jackasses you know.

Also, what's wrong with a W/Mo?
My first and favorite character is one also. He started off as a W/Mo, and I tried all the other professions as secondaries, and today I switched him to W/Mo again.
And, i happened to invent a great build. Go figure.
I was PvPing in Random Arenas to test it, and won flawless every time until we got to one of the "unbeatable" teams with tons of healers, until my teammates left due to a 17 minute stalemate.

And one thing I'd like to clear up...

W/Mo's do NOT think they are self-sufficient. They can be if built to be for individual farming and such, but the ones that try to be that way when you have a nice team of 8 with 2 monks... THEY are the newbs. Don't stereotype all of us for the newbishness of others.

Besides, from what I've seen, most W/Mo's dont use many monk skills except monk revives.
Most go for pure warrior builds, and save their monk skills for individual farming and such.

Overlord07

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2006

The Kingdom of Hell

W/E

09 Apr 2006 at 21:07 - 49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maria The Princess

very good point, and i believe swords can also interrupt, so hummer is replacable. the "two handed" is a BIG down side

The point of a sword is none existant, compared to the power combination of a good hammer, good armor, and a set of hammer based attck skills. With those three things you don't have to worry about armor as much because, you take the enemy down before they can deal enough damage to kill you. The two handed side of the hammer's stats are just what makes it unique, not to mention cost effective when you don't have to worry about having a shield. Plus, when you throw in element abilities, such as what I do, you can do even more damage or on the otherside prevent almost any damage from getting through. I rest my case.

Evilsod

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2006

England

Lievs Death Squad [LDS]

09 Apr 2006 at 21:08 - 50

Most indeed, but sadly only most. I had a warrior in FoW yesterday that was using Healing Hands and Mending. I don't think he seemed to understand that 2 skills whos main use is for solo farming (when used by a war anyway). On paper i suppose it could work. Was always amusing to watch how he ran in first with Mending on (got it shattered) tried to recast it (got interrupted) went to use Healing Hands (again shattered). Only reason he survived was Endure Pain and a quick WoH + Other.

Swords can interrupt, Axes can disrupt, Hammers can knockdown and cause massive damage. The only problem is obviously that for the hammer combo you must use your elite slot for it to be truly effective.

Quaker

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Aug 2005

Canada

Brothers Disgruntled

09 Apr 2006 at 21:11 - 51

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Leprechaun

why dont people like wammo's i dont se th piont is it because there are loads of them?

also why do people say a FDS is the noobs weapon of chioce has it got some fatal flaw with it or is it just not very rare?

There are lots of people, particularly kids less than 20, who need to make themselves feel better and "kewler" by calling others "noob" or whatever. However, since this isn't Jr.High, and you don't ever have to have anything to do with those children, you can just ignore them - or you can have some fun with them by yanking their chain (real easy to do

).

If you like playing a Warrior (if that is, indeed, what a "wammo" is supposed to be) go for it!.

If you want a sword that does Fiery or Icy damage, why not use an FDS or an IDS? I use a Sundering sword and Victo's Blade mainly, but in some instances, I use my FDS - I like the "swoosh" sound it makes.

X Firestorm

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2006

Gold

W/

10 Apr 2006 at 00:30 - 52

things are even worse in pvp.iv seen lots of w/mo spaming "tank LFG" in HA.
i told one of them there was no such thing as a tank in pvp beacuse people are not as stupid as bots and he said you must have never seen a good warrior

The Purple Pants Guy

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2005

10 Apr 2006 at 00:39 - 53

Today a W/Mo told me "OMFG fds ftl".

I didn't even have one.

Str0b0

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

North Carolina

N/Me

10 Apr 2006 at 00:40 - 54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Overlord07

Hahaha Why is there all this fuss over freakin swords???!!! Why use a lame sword when you can use an awsome HAMMER!!! As Don Zardeone said, look at the stats... 15-22dmg (sword) v. 28-35dmg (hammer). Sure theres a difference in attack times, 1.22sec (sword) v. 1.75sec (hammer). But whats a lousy .53 sec between attacks when theres such a difference in dmg done? Come on! Look at the FACTS!!!

Because dps on swords is better. That .53 seconds compounds over time. Swords put out more dps than hammers simply because you can hit more times. Considering that the low end damage on hammers is only 4 more than swords and you can't hit for max damage every time the swords will always win even if you do get a few massive hits in. Also it's 19-35 for hammer damage not 28-35 and I believe that swords are 1.33 seconds. Also considering that a sword allows you to carry a shield for extra AL and more stat boosting mods you end up with a considerable advantage over hammer warriors. Not to say hammers are useless just that they limit you too much.

Overlord07

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2006

The Kingdom of Hell

W/E

10 Apr 2006 at 03:27 - 55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

Because dps on swords is better. That .53 seconds compounds over time. Swords put out more dps than hammers simply because you can hit more times. Considering that the low end damage on hammers is only 4 more than swords and you can't hit for max damage every time the swords will always win even if you do get a few massive hits in. Also it's 19-35 for hammer damage not 28-35 and I believe that swords are 1.33 seconds. Also considering that a sword allows you to carry a shield for extra AL and more stat boosting mods you end up with a considerable advantage over hammer warriors. Not to say hammers are useless just that they limit you too much.

As you just said,"compounds over time." There is no point if it adds up over time, because in a fight, time is of the esence. I thought you would know that. I mean, there is no point if a sword ends up being better over time. The hammer will kill you before that time comes. HAHA

Besides, the dmg will add up faster then the .xx time will catch up. Haha

Not to mention the exception to every rule. "It all depends on who is wielding it." Basicly, if I were to use a hammer, I would most likely do better then you, if you were to use a hammer that is. And the same would go if we were both useing swords, you would most likely do better then I. But my hammer v. your sword. No question, the hammer would prevail.

Cade

Academy Page

Join Date: Mar 2006

Knights of The Scorched Earth

W/

10 Apr 2006 at 03:51 - 56

Well, since we are straying from the topic... I just did some calculations.

A sword attacking for 20 seconds with average damage of 18.5 will do about 278 damage.

A hammer attacking for 20 seconds with average damage of 27 will do about 308 damage.

Though it appears that a hammer will kill quicker, I personally think sword skills are designed to kill enemies quicker, while hammer skills are designed to kill them slower.

I think a hammers knockdown neutralizes enemy attacks long enough to make up for the 16 defense boost, but not the shield mods.

I dont know. I consider them even, but I hate weak little axes.

Overlord07

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2006

The Kingdom of Hell

W/E

10 Apr 2006 at 05:29 - 57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cade

Well, since we are straying from the topic... I just did some calculations.

A sword attacking for 20 seconds with average damage of 18.5 will do about 278 damage.

A hammer attacking for 20 seconds with average damage of 27 will do about 308 damage.

Though it appears that a hammer will kill quicker, I personally think sword skills are designed to kill enemies quicker, while hammer skills are designed to kill them slower.

I think a hammers knockdown neutralizes enemy attacks long enough to make up for the 16 defense boost, but not the shield mods.

I dont know. I consider them even, but I hate weak little axes.

What you said makes sense. Except for the hammer skills part. Hammer skills are designed to knock down your enemy while inflicting damage or to knock them down to do some sort of specialized attack that would cause Weakness, Crippled, etc. I believe it is the sword that is designed to kill your enemy slowly. [Example: Bleeding]

Cherno

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

Stars of Destiny

E/

10 Apr 2006 at 07:02 - 58

Quote:

Originally Posted by LittleBull

Oh!! Jeez! Cherno... it says right there in the quote... "As warriors. they're mediocre".

And I also stated why they make poor tanks too... because they usually go after the casters
rather than drawing the aggro of the heavy hitters like they should.
It's not that thay can't be good tanks... it's that they "aren't" good tanks.

Oh... and the last thing I would want from a warrior in PvE is the ability
to rez.

There is a differance between a "warrior" and a "tank" right?
Maybe that's part of the problem. When I say I'm looking for
a tank, I'm looking for something different than when I say I'm
looking for a warrior. I guess that not everyone sees a them
as two kinds of builds.
Be that as it may... W/Mo's still aren't very good as either.

Ah I see the miscommunication. When you say warrior, you mean damage dealer. When I say warrior, I mean the profession. There are subsets.
So no there isn't a difference between a warrior and a tank. There is a difference between a damage-dealing warrior and a tanking warrior.

Sure you may not want your warrior to be ressing, but IMO there should never be a member in a party without a res, and if you can use monk for a reusable res, the better. Sometimes things just go bad, no matter how good you are, better to be prepared than sorry.

For those saying the disadvantage of not being able to remove the prefix on an FDS as a drawback, I hate to think of all the money you have to waste to keep changing the mod on a sword to meet the situation. You aren't supposed to change the mod, you are supposed to have a different sword to switch to.

byteme!

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

On Earth

W/P

10 Apr 2006 at 08:03 - 59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Overlord07

What you said makes sense. Except for the hammer skills part. Hammer skills are designed to knock down your enemy while inflicting damage or to knock them down to do some sort of specialized attack that would cause Weakness, Crippled, etc. I believe it is the sword that is designed to kill your enemy slowly. [Example: Bleeding]

Sever Artery, Gash, Riposte, Deadly Riposte = Swords kill faster

NinjaKai

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

UK

Duality Of The Dragon

10 Apr 2006 at 08:28 - 60

I'm very fortunate to have a friend who's a wammo. He's the only reason the FoW group I joined didn't die. As far as warriors go, my preference is warrior /ranger.

makosi

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

"Pre-nerf" is incorrect. It's pre-buff.

Requirement Begins With R [notQ]

Me/

10 Apr 2006 at 08:42 - 61

A friend of mine tanked in FoW (with the book) and used Armour of Earth, Ward Against Melee and Aftershock (for extra dmg after nukes). Despite the fact that 2 monks, a mesmer and the SS necro left after Defend The Temple of War, we got to the forgemaster to craft. Just goes to show that a wamo need not be the best stance tank. It annoys me to go to outposts and see "W/Mo W/Mo W/Mo W/Mo W/Mo" above most peoples' head. The icing on the cake is when a wamo has droks or 15k armour and the FoW helm - it looks so damn retarded. Furthermore, it makes them look like they scraped every gold coin together to craft it. If you don't like the other helms, hide it via your inventoy. >_>

Effendi Westland

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

Isle of the dead

[DVDF][LDS]

P/W

10 Apr 2006 at 12:45 - 62

I can hardly wait for the fix on ritualist ashes that will break the booktrick. I will be glad to see the warriors released from holding a thingy and tanking.

Overlord07

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2006

The Kingdom of Hell

W/E

10 Apr 2006 at 16:34 - 63

Quote:

Originally Posted by byteme!

Sever Artery, Gash, Riposte, Deadly Riposte = Swords kill faster

Haha! All those skills end up makeing your enemy's health drain away. Thus, causing him or her to die slowly. Unlike the hammer which will just knock you down and smash you to bits.

Overlord07

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2006

The Kingdom of Hell

W/E

10 Apr 2006 at 16:38 - 64

Quote:

Originally Posted by makosi

A friend of mine tanked in FoW (with the book) and used Armour of Earth, Ward Against Melee and Aftershock (for extra dmg after nukes). Despite the fact that 2 monks, a mesmer and the SS necro left after Defend The Temple of War, we got to the forgemaster to craft. Just goes to show that a wamo need not be the best stance tank. It annoys me to go to outposts and see "W/Mo W/Mo W/Mo W/Mo W/Mo" above most peoples' head. The icing on the cake is when a wamo has droks or 15k armour and the FoW helm - it looks so damn retarded. Furthermore, it makes them look like they scraped every gold coin together to craft it. If you don't like the other helms, hide it via your inventoy. >_>

HAHA!!! O so very true! Nice one Makosi! I totally agree!

Tufty

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2006

UK

CUTE

10 Apr 2006 at 17:39 - 65

Ah the old wammo hate thing. Its getting old now and Im seeing more of a trend for utterly useless other proffesions now. I did learn a thing or two from this thread though which is a nice change for a wammo hate thread. Unfortunately there are alot of idiots playing wammo and there are alot of elitest wan()rs who are gonna flame you at the first opportunity. This will never end unfortunately although I am trying to help by doing my bit. Funniest thing Ive seen recently was in a pug when both monks proclaimed 'were 55hp so we can complete this section easy' They changed there armour and ran straight into a mesmer and died. Oh yeah but then there are 55hp hate threads as well! Funny I have a warrior (monk secondary for the moment) and a 55hp monk! God I'm a sock monkey

A Leprechaun

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

10 Apr 2006 at 19:44 - 66

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tufty

I did learn a thing or two from this thread though which is a nice change for a wammo hate thread.

sry but this is not a " wammo hate thread" my original question was "why do people think wammos are noobs" or something like that

A Leprachaun

Sirkaze

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2006

London/Uk

The Lost Saracens

E/Mo

10 Apr 2006 at 21:36 - 67

Sundering is crap 10% is 1 armor pen Does's very little Extra dmg.... i go for Zealos or a Vamp mod

Sol Deathgard

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2005

Shadows of the Dragon

W/N

11 Apr 2006 at 09:57 - 68

I had to respond to this thread due to all the FDS bashing.

1st off, I have a Sundering Fellblade or Fortitude, a Furious Shadow Blade of Defence, an IDS of Warding, & a FDS of Shelter.
2nd off I have used each weapon against every type of monster in the game and and found this... Casters or Ranger monsters, use Fellblade or Shadow Blade, ice monsters, or Warriors use FDS, Fire monsters or Warriors use IDS. btw all swords are 15^50 so that is not an issue.

FDS as noob weapon? if so then some noobs that don't experiment haven't seen what this weapon can do to Minitors, Griffons, IWay warriors and the such.

As far as Axe being better than sword...

Matter of opinion. I have used Axe also, and found myself doing 6 dmg more than that 60 dmg that people seem to love axes for, where as with swords I do 20-50 dmg each swing. plus I can do more conditons to foes such as bleeding & deep wound.

As far as W/Mos

I'm only ever a W/Mo when farming, only way I can take hoards of Scarabs (I can solo all those scarabs but the queen) Hydras, Ettins, undead, and what have you. If I am questing or pvping I prefer W/N for the conditions (virulence is a great skill)

Cherno

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

Stars of Destiny

E/

11 Apr 2006 at 12:21 - 69

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sol Deathgard

FDS as noob weapon? if so then some noobs that don't experiment haven't seen what this weapon can do to Minitors, Griffons, IWay warriors and the such.

You are getting caught in the same problem as the haters are, just from the other end. There is absolutely nothing special about an FDS compared to another Fiery modded sword apart from the skin. It isn't what An FDS can do to minotaurs, griffons, etc, it is in your opinion what a fiery sword of any kind with good stats/mods can do.

I love that the person some posts back talked about how awesome the IDS looks when it is exactly the same as the FDS, just a different color.