My Pvp Me/N isnt so great... help please?

FaceEraser

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Apr 2006

Ok heres my build(PvP):
1.Power Spike
2.Power Leak
3.Backfire
4.Energy Burn
5.Faintheartedness
6.Whither {E}
7.Parasitic Bond
8.Rez sig


Fast casting: 9
dom magic: 12
Curses: 12

This mesmer doesnt do so well in random arenas, especially without a monk. Im in the process of getting a few of my buddies and playing RA, and i hope he will do better then, but as of now he is not so good. The biggest problem is staying alive. Parasitic bond is my only means of healing and its not too dependable. If a warrior chases me, my only defense is faintheartedness and running. Anyone have any suggestions? (be back to check in 10 minutes)

Murder In China

Murder In China

Banned

Join Date: Sep 2005

/B/Chan

Looking for one

W/

You lack some sort of way to get energy.

Ole Man Bourbon

Ole Man Bourbon

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2005

Atlanta

GONG

W/E

Need to focus your strategy. Mesmers are crappy at being jacks of all trades.

FaceEraser

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Apr 2006

well all my skills are anti caster except faintheartedness and parasitic bond (which i use to heal myself, although its pretty crappy). I guess i can get rid of them if i can replace them with something good.

How do you suppose i get more energy? i was thinking of changing from curses to blood magic, which would provide numerous ways to get more energy.

SnipiousMax

SnipiousMax

Perfectly Elocuted

Join Date: Sep 2005

I'd look into the inspiration line for energy management. Although I've used just Guilt or Shame with moderate success. They're both from the domination line.

Murder In China

Murder In China

Banned

Join Date: Sep 2005

/B/Chan

Looking for one

W/

Why not go Energy Denial? It works against both Casters, Warriors, and Rangers.

Hella Good

Hella Good

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

None, free and clear

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ole Man Bourbon
Need to focus your strategy. Mesmers are crappy at being jacks of all trades. QFT. When you play Mes you must choose what exactly you want to focus on. Questions like: Am I going to e-deny? Am I going to shutdown? Am I going to degen? Am I going to interrupt? Am I going to do a Warriors Hate/Bane build? It doesn't work to just pick a few skills from here, pick a few skills from there and leave the rest in the hands of fate. Not with Mes anyway.

Just try to be consistant in your skill choices and make sure you'll have enuf nrg- Mesmer is very nrg intensive. For example, if you going to do e-denial, make sure you have at least 4 nrg drain skills and don't forget to bring Wrack it's invaluable.

sarcasteak

sarcasteak

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2006

Kaineng Center

[Moe]

N/

In RA, your survival is dependent largely on two factors: the competence of your Monk (if you even have any) and whether the opposing party labels you as a priority target (or finds you the easiest squishy to kill).

So while anti-caster builds are extremely fun (e-denial, shutdown, interrupt) and effective in large-scale battles where multiple healers are present, STRONG warrior hate generally will allow you to survive much longer in 4v4 RA even if enemy warrior(s) wears HoD helmet AND considers you a priority target. For your nrg, at least bring a Drain Enchantment. Inspired Hex can help out, too, but Drain Enchant can almost always be used. If enemies have hex removal, be sure to slap on Conjure Phantasm (or Parasidic Bond) as cover hex when nrg permits. You might also want to bring Cry of Frustration (or Leech Sig if you really have nrg management issues) just to interrupt a crucial Res Sig or Healing Sig.

FaceEraser

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Apr 2006

sorry for late reply...just wokr up didnt check again last night

if i go e-denial do you suggest that i got pure mes and drop the necro part?

Also, what is a shutdown mes?

LouAl

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

for an e-denial you don't have to go pure mes...malaise, wither...necro will work well too.
Edit: I should point out that malaise and wither both end when the target's energy reaches 0 so they aren't useful at keeping someone at 0. IMO they are better at getting someone's energy lowered from max (plus malaise is very spammable if you can keep up with the hlth degen).

My definition of a shutdown mes is one that actively stops their opponents from acting, as opposed to passively stopping them with e-denial. Sutdown will generally use interrupts, diversion, migraine, cunundrum, blackout, etc. Anything that keeps the opponent 'shutdown'...That is my definition anyway, anyone can feel free to correct/clarify this.

Hella Good

Hella Good

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

None, free and clear

No 1) E-denial is NOT a purely anti-caster strategy. E-denial works on anything that has energy... that would be everything... Mindwrack e-denial is probably the only universal strategy that Mesmers can employ. And yes, it does hurt warriors and rangers... in fact, mindwrack e-denial is much more damaging versus those classes than versus a spellcaster with a large nrg pool and high regen. Also classic e-denial doesn't involve non-Mesmer skills. The use of such skills is mostly a function of survivability. (For example, I often use Parasitic Bond spam or Heal Sig for their superior healing power to Ether Feast/Illusion of Weakness)

No 2) Shutdown isn't the same as interrupt. Shutdown implies that what you are doing is disabling the skills of your target. Skills include Arcane Thevery, Diversion, Guilt/Shame, Blackout, etc. Shutdown is sometimes hard to play because its actual worth is kind of hard to see but it's nevertheless highly effective versus spellcasters. Diversion and Blackout are probably the two most dispised Mesmer skills by Monks and other casters.

EDIT: On a side note, if you want to use both Mesmer and Necro skills I would highly recommend either the Curse/Illusion approach (Soul Barbs hex spiking, Max degen, Warrior Hate, or a combination of the three), or the Domi/Blood approach (most often Soul Leech/Backfire combo)

FaceEraser

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Apr 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hella Good
No 1) E-denial is NOT a purely anti-caster strategy. E-denial works on anything that has energy... that would be everything... Mindwrack e-denial is probably the only universal strategy that Mesmers can employ. And yes, it does hurt warriors and rangers... in fact, mindwrack e-denial is much more damaging versus those classes than versus a spellcaster with a large nrg pool and high regen. Also classic e-denial doesn't involve non-Mesmer skills. The use of such skills is mostly a function of survivability. (For example, I often use Parasitic Bond spam or Heal Sig for their superior healing power to Ether Feast/Illusion of Weakness)

No 2) Shutdown isn't the same as interrupt. Shutdown implies that what you are doing is disabling the skills of your target. Skills include Arcane Thevery, Diversion, Guilt/Shame, Blackout, etc. Shutdown is sometimes hard to play because its actual worth is kind of hard to see but it's nevertheless highly effective versus spellcasters. Diversion and Blackout are probably the two most dispised Mesmer skills by Monks and other casters.

EDIT: On a side note, if you want to use both Mesmer and Necro skills I would highly recommend either the Curse/Illusion approach (Soul Barbs hex spiking, Max degen, Warrior Hate, or a combination of the three), or the Domi/Blood approach (most often Soul Leech/Backfire combo) Thanks, I think im gonna go for the warrior hate cause i have a hard time with teamwork in random arenas (hence the word "random") and e-denial for team arenas where I can get my friends to watch my back. Your advice and everyone elses really helped.

FaceEraser

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Apr 2006

So...how do I get started on this warrior hate buisness?

Run Red Run

Run Red Run

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2006

Colorado

Rally Opposing Fears [ROFL]

There are quite a few Warrior-hate options for Mesmers. Most skills are in the Illusion line, such as Clumsiness, Sympathetic Visage, Imagined Burden, etc.

For Damage: things like Empathy or using Spirit Shackles + Mind Wrack will help out with the damage dealing.

Personally, I go Me/N, using Signet of Midnight and Plague Touch as the basis of my anti-warrior build...with Spirit of Failure helping with energy management (Team Arenas).

It's all about personal preference, but definately read through the Illusion line and see what you can put together.

Francis Demeules

Francis Demeules

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

Canada, Qc

[Holy]

Me/Mo

Ineptitude(E)+Clumsiness for a one swing high dmg and blind for 10 sec

Hella Good

Hella Good

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

None, free and clear

Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis Demeules
Ineptitude(E)+Clumsiness for a one swing high dmg and blind for 10 sec
That's what I use. Inepti/Clumsi then stuff like Distortion and/or SV. A few other hexes like Conjure (for fast degen), PhantomP (for the DWound), Faintheartedness (for the degen and slow attack- works nicely on Rangers btw), Spirit of Failure (to get some nrg from blinded foes or foes attacking you while Dist is on), and some general survival stuff. If it's randoms I'd take a Backfire or a Diversion so that you don't feel dumb vs casters. So yea, balance Inepti + Clumsi + few other hexes + survival and nrg management.

Quote: I don't think this is true.

My understanding is that if you are in negative energy, you have to wait until you hit 0 (usually by going up to +0 then back to 0 again). Im 99% positive this is how it works (I saw a thread here, big discussion on how it was working).

Aside from that as everyone has pretty much mentioned... Warrior hate should consist of Ineptitude + Clumsy... thats what I use in RA/TA. Because your right. Frankly as nice as ESurgers or Dom Mesmers really are in TA they will not keep you alive for a minute. Reason being there is no teamwork, you have no idea if you'll get a Monk and even if you do you have no idea if he's even going to do his job at all. So frankly, go with Anti Warrior for those environments. That being said, when you move you way up to HA and GvG, then its a different story. Dom Mesmers and ESurgers are both excellent choices and very good.

Heres my Ineptitude build, just for reference

1. Ineptitude {E}
2. Clumsy
3. Spirit of Failure
4. Drain Enchantment
5. Conjure Phantom/Phantom Pain (I prefer the lader because of the deep wound but the other is faster as a cover hex. Both are good)
6. Distortion (this is an absolute MUST)
7. Open slot (can use basically whatever you want, Inspired Hex is a good choice if you are stuck. Really depends on personal choice here)
8. Res Signet

Thats how mine looks and it works very well for TA.

As hella Good stated:
Quote:
Originally Posted by FaceEraser
Thanks, I think im gonna go for the warrior hate cause i have a hard time with teamwork in random arenas (hence the word "random") and e-denial for team arenas where I can get my friends to watch my back. Your advice and everyone elses really helped. You're very welcome.

Francis Demeules

Francis Demeules

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

Canada, Qc

[Holy]

Me/Mo

Well, in another way for Warrior Hate combo: Faint+Shadow of Fear. They stack and they do like 75% slower (1 swing/ 7-6 seconds). That make you the time to attack him. Just watch out for Hex remover that's all.

Arcanis the Omnipotent

Arcanis the Omnipotent

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2005

Nova Alliance

Me/

Anti-casting for a Mesmer comes down to two Elites. Pick which ever you want, you're gonna be doing the same thing. Slowing them down, and stopping them dead.

The more popular choice is Migraine. A Migraine Build usually looks something like this:

Migraine {E}
Backfire
Power Drain
Power Spike
Leech Signet Or Power Leak
Shatter, Drain, or Strip Enchantment (up to you)
Shame/Guilt
Rez

You may also want to put in some Necro heals, like the Blood Magic Vampiric line.

The other Anti-Caster style is Power Block

Arcane Conundrum (Slow down for using Block)
Power Block{E}
Arcane Echo (Echo the Power Block to take out two people)
Blackout (and take out a third)
Power Drain
Power Leak
Cry of Fustration
Rez.

Obviously, if you'd rather take the Necro route, you'd be looking at an Spiteful Spirit build.

dgb

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2005

Mo/Me

Wither is a waste of an elite. Any half decent monk, necromancer or mesmer will focus swap it off in about a second. GG, you've spent 10 energy and your elite for something that does nothing. It's more effective on an elementalist , ranger or warrior but really it's an extremely weak elite.

Malaise is ok. Just. Because it's spammable it can perform well depending on what you run against - but it's got all the vulnerabilities of Wither. At least it doesn't burn your elite and cost reasonable energy though.

Murder In China

Murder In China

Banned

Join Date: Sep 2005

/B/Chan

Looking for one

W/

Mind Wrack triggers even if your target has negative energy right? If it doesn then you could add Wither with Mind Wrack to punish them for focus swapping.

Hella Good

Hella Good

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

None, free and clear

Mindwrack triggers at target hitting 0. It doesn't trigger simply because target is at 0.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanis the Omnipotent
Anti-casting for a Mesmer comes down to two Elites. I think the 2 elites you are suggesting are actually the more rarely used once. Surge or Echo/Glyph of Renewal is much more common. For anti-caster anyway.

dgb

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2005

Mo/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Murder In China
Mind Wrack triggers even if your target has negative energy right? If it doesn then you could add Wither with Mind Wrack to punish them for focus swapping. Yes it does, but I still think there are better uses for your elite than as something to trigger mindwrack in that way.

Valkyries

Valkyries

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Mar 2006

AoM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dgb
Yes it does, but I still think there are better uses for your elite than as something to trigger mindwrack in that way.
I think the 2 elites you are suggesting are actually the more rarely used once. Surge or Echo/Glyph of Renewal is much more common. For anti-caster anyway. These definitely are the common ones, along with Migrane for Elites. So watch out for these.

Good Luck.

dgb

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2005

Mo/Me

You're right - sorry I read the initial post as "does mindwrack trigger if your energy goes from a positive number straight to a negative number"

Actually to get two mindwracks energy needs to go 0->1->0.

Arcanis the Omnipotent

Arcanis the Omnipotent

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2005

Nova Alliance

Me/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hella Good
Mindwrack triggers at target hitting 0. It doesn't trigger simply because target is at 0.


I think the 2 elites you are suggesting are actually the more rarely used once. Surge or Echo/Glyph of Renewal is much more common. For anti-caster anyway. Commonly used doesnt always equal correct. Try to remember that in the future. The common Surger/Wrack combo is just a basic build. It can be directed at either Melee or Casters, just depending on how you set up the support skills around it. I was talking about for straight Anti-Casting, those two are the way to go.

Demon Rebel

Demon Rebel

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

Phoenix, Az

Kings of Chaos Knights (KoCK)

W/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by dgb
You're right - sorry I read the initial post as "does mindwrack trigger if your energy goes from a positive number straight to a negative number"

Actually to get two mindwracks energy needs to go 0->1->0. Not trying to be picky but I don't think thats the case, though I could very well be wrong.

With all of my low level warriors and my ranger I would go and kill the Skale and Mergoyles out of Kryta. The farther north you go you run into the Mergoyles that use the Mindwrack + Spirit Shakles combo on you. (This is also right out of Bettletun)

I quickly found out that with Mind Wrack and Spirit Shakles that I would attack until I have 0 or - energy and take the initial hit from Mind Wrack then the speed that the warrior naturally attacks meant that I continued to stay in the negative energy or at 0 to avoid taking damage from Mind Wrack until I've moved to my next target.

This is my experience - and its only been with the Warrior and Ranger class.

I also have to laugh every time I see this combo just because I ran into so often in PvE and that it really does work.

Something to kill Adrenal skills if your going after W/ is important too - if I can't gain Energy doesn't mean I can't cut you with an axe or sword. Soothing Images is brutal about the adrenal and I think there is another.

~Demon

Hella Good

Hella Good

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

None, free and clear

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanis the Omnipotent
Commonly used doesnt always equal correct. Try to remember that in the future. The common Surger/Wrack combo is just a basic build. It can be directed at either Melee or Casters, just depending on how you set up the support skills around it. I was talking about for straight Anti-Casting, those two are the way to go. I'll have to disagree. Power Block is simply meh. Migraine is only good on non-monks (Veil, CoP, etc.). But the wonderful thing about this game and the bottom line is: Play it as you like it; many ways to achieve same goal.