Mesmer or Elementalist?

jciardha

jciardha

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2005

International Districts

The Labyrinth of Night [LoN]

Me/

Quote:
Originally Posted by d4nowar
Uh oh, I envoked the mesmers wrath. Let me clear something up.

<Snippage.>
Say whatever soothing words you wish to attempt to salvage yourself, but I shan't believe you, so long as your location beneath your avatar remains unchanged.

Furthermore, Chaos Storm was crap before the AOE change, it was even more so after the AOE change. At least it's still effective in PVP, where I find most human players to be less intelligent than the AI when it comes to moving out of it.

Killmur

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Arizona - America

R/Mo

Just got through skimming\reading this article and wow... I love my Ele but my plan is to redo her under Factions. However since I plan on going Earth Ele I might just do a Me/E instead. From my playtime with the FPE I noticed that the enemy AI was tougher and quicker on the ball than the Core AI is. To be quite honest I would rather have the Fast Cast instead of 70-80 Energy in Factions. Plus I have the Galigord's Stone Staff which would give me around 45 Energy in total I think. However I am more into Illusion than the other Mesmer Attributes because imho I found Illusion skills to be quite powerful.

jules

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2005

Xen of Sigils [XoO]

Quote:
Originally Posted by d4nowar
Sorry, I meant main class mesmer is worthless in pve.
Runes anyone?

The mesmer is one of the most versatile and fun classes to play in the game. And the female mesmer is gorgeous.

Francis Demeules

Francis Demeules

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

Canada, Qc

[Holy]

Me/Mo

The thing with mesmer, you can do many builds in PvE. Mostly Ele (Sorry for those who feels targeted on what I will say) must do nuking like everyone else to get a group. I played mostly all professions (except primary monk) and I know how they work.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TruePlayer

Ele/Me (playing Mesmer) --> Lots of Mana(80+), not highest damage (runes!)

Me/Ele (playing Mesmer) --> Less Mana(40+), ideal damage (runes), Fast Cast

Choose Elementalist, Energy Storage makes him a good allrounder!
Yes, so what? Ele skills cost around 5-25 (most 15) and exhaust to get less benefit on the energy storage.

Mesmer is 5-15 and the highest is 25 with one skill: Panic (Without Exhaust).

Each have their own benefit around their skills when you know how to play it.

They're still good in both PvE and PvP. Players must know that. Fastcasting has its own place in PvE too.

If you go to mesmer, go for it. Same for Elemantalist.

In my experience, I get tired of Ele for one and only thing:"GLF NUKERZ!!!" .GW becomes a "non-original" with the same copy/paste builds these days

Killmur

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Arizona - America

R/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis Demeules
The thing with mesmer, you can do many builds in PvE. Mostly Ele (Sorry for those who feels targeted on what I will say) must do nuking like everyone else to get a group. I played mostly all professions (except primary monk) and I know how they work.

Yes, so what? Ele skills cost around 5-25 (most 15) and exhaust to get less benefit on the energy storage.

Mesmer is 5-15 and the highest is 25 with one skill: Panic (Without Exhaust).

Each have their own benefit around their skills when you know how to play it.

They're still good in both PvE and PvP. Players must know that. Fastcasting has its own place in PvE too.

If you go to mesmer, go for it. Same for Elemantalist.

In my experience, I get tired of Ele for one and only thing:"GLF NUKERZ!!!" .GW becomes a "non-original" with the same copy/paste builds these days
I agree whole heartedly. My problem with being a Ele is not the whole gotta nuke it all biz but the fact that Eles are weak as hell when it comes to armor and all the conditions and such like Distraction for example. I am tired of trying to nuke a group with Meteor Shower and getting my ass distracted or clumsied. I die way too much as a Ele. I would rather die as a Mesmer knowing I got to wipe out 2-3 groups with a few Meteor Showers via Echoing. With Ele the best you can hope for before dying is that one group goes down as you do. It is like playing the Russian Roulette with the Ele Profession.

Cherno

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

Stars of Destiny

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by LifeInfusion
Elementalist have Zero damage potnetial with fire magic once you get to higher level areas like Ring of Fire Islands
This is true...only in Hell's Precipice...unless the ele or someone else brings winter (which is usually done) then the pyro is great. Pryo is also good in RoF and Abaddon's


Quote:
Originally Posted by LifeInfusion
, Sorrow's Furnace, and Fissure of Woe. All they are good for is the knockdown.
This is false.


I am not trying to get into these mesmers/eles do/don't suck that we have had multiple times, but the OP is asking for opinions and I don't think it is fair to give him blanket statements without any support to help him make up his mind.

The only other thing for d4 is your comment about rangers and other classes doing better shutdown. Rangers are better interrupters. Sad but true, but interrupt <> shutdown. Mesmers are the master of shutdown in various forms.

d4nowar

d4nowar

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2005

Mo/

Meant shutting down via interrupts. Shutting down is simply stopping your enemy from using skills, and ranger interrupts are damn good at that.

But yeah... no doubt a mesmer can Shut down a monk or other casters for an entire match, but we're talking about pve, where there are endless amounts of units. Not just one you follow around.

MMSDome

MMSDome

Raged Out

Join Date: Sep 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by d4nowar
Sorry, I meant main class mesmer is worthless in pve.
are you serious? They create some of the most damage in FoW.

Dr Strangelove

Dr Strangelove

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Dec 2005

Wasting away again in Margaritaville

[HOTR]

Mesmers are certainly harder to play than Ele's. However, they can also be much, much more powerful. With a mez, there really is no single good build that can carry you throught the game. Each and every time you go outside you need to stop and think which skills to use, which can be fun if you're into that sort of thing, but can also be a giant pain when it takes you a couple minutes to reset skills every time you do anything.

People who insist that mesmers are impotent or are only doing things that other classes can do better clearly have only used the skills that give mesmers a bad name - phantasm and backfire. I've been flamed from here to next chapter for not bringing backfire as a mesmer despite the fact that it's horrible. Anyone who's doing nothing but spamming degens by the end of the game clearly doesn't quite get how to play a mesmer, or hasn't heard of a necro. And like the above guy, anyone who ever even thinks of putting chaos storm on their bar should really just go play an ele and spam firestorm until kingdom come.

Ele's can be a lot of fun too, but their weaknesses are large and glaring. Yes, elementalists can do a lot of damage, but only if the enemy bunches up nicely, and only if you're not interrupted, and only if you can muster up the massive energy costs, and only if you're not dying thanks to the worst armor in the game... and so on. On the plus side, many groups seem to want a nuker with them most of the time, which is often not true for mesmers.

However, PvE players in general believe an elementalist is little more than the fire line. I guess take ele if you want to get into groups easily or take mesmer for more flexibility and challenge in playing, albeit challenge that is paid off by superior firepower

Killmur

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Arizona - America

R/Mo

I applaud Dr Strangelove many times over. He makes some damn good points in his post.

Thallandor

Thallandor

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Singapore

Seers of Serpents [SoS]

R/

hmmm mesmer or Elementalist....

ZOOooo Mesmer of course oooooommmm *replies/cast faster than the blink of an eye*

Infact i am waiting for the GWF link to use a slot to play a Tyria born mesmer primary.

Song Rui

Banned

Join Date: Aug 2005

We are all pretty [ugly]

W/

omg you nubz. How can you not like mesmers? They're leet haxxorz and look pretty.yer

Cartoonhero

Cartoonhero

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

Sooner Nation

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Song Rui
omg you nubz. How can you not like mesmers? They're leet haxxorz and look pretty.yer
lols song.

i prefer eles though, but thats because i understand the class much more than the mesmer. and mesmers just never appealed to me. >_>

Song Rui

Banned

Join Date: Aug 2005

We are all pretty [ugly]

W/

eles look ugly, except mine. mesmers are leet and look ubar.

eileena

eileena

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Apr 2006

Rebels on Tour

Me/

mesmers rock..especialy when u get 2 the end....i pve maybe it can be hard for some cos mesmers dont have direct high dmg dealing...but they are by far the funest class ever...in PvP there is no classs that can stand against a good mesmer...(btw i'm a mesmer fan :P)

Nikki Moonlight

Nikki Moonlight

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2005

Brighton, England

Ice Cold Elements [ICE]

Mo/

i played my ele through the game. Being known as a "nuker" got dull after just a few missions...but since no-one's found a build that every single mesmer uses, my mesmer has more freedom to do whatever i want to with her skillwise. Also likely to have more reliable damage later on in the game as fire damage is kinda..halved..if not, less, while mesmers still have their lovely armour ignoring damage

Rayne Nightfyre

Rayne Nightfyre

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

Acolytes of Lyssa [AL]

Me/A

D4nowar, you might as well give your "argument" a rest. It's based on a biased opinion, not facts. The facts easily show that Mesmers are invaluable in PvE, and nothing will prove otherwise. Sure, it's possible to efficiently complete a quest or mission without a Mesmer, but having one in your party can only speed up the process. If there's an annoying Shadow Warrior chasing in on your Monk, put Ineptitude, Clumsiness and Empathy on it, and watch half of his health instantly disappear. You can't do that damage with an Elementalist, they don't ignore armor. If it's a Priest of Sorrow that you're having difficulty killing, slap it with Arcane Conundrum and use Power Leak, Power Spike, or CoF. The point is that a skilled Mesmer will save your butt in spots that would otherwise be difficult.

It's pathetic and extremely redundant that every thread with the word "Mesmer" in it eventually turns into an argument about whether or not they are useful in PvE. The ones who argue and say they are not are close-minded, and unwilling to think outside the cookie-cutter builds such as Nuker, SS, MM, Healer, and Boon Prot. So those who don't enjoy playing the class need to keep their comments to themselves.

Mouse at Large

Mouse at Large

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Dec 2005

Scotland

Fuzzy Physics Institute

E/

As was mentioned earlier in this thread, it's perfectly feasable to go E/Me and use mainly mesmer skills. Just accept that you are not going to be particularly good at fastcasting interrupts and concentrate on other mesmer skills like degens, WW, Ineptitude/Clumsiness etc. With this sort of setup and Aura of Restoration you will be an asset to any group and also take a little bit of pressure off the healer classes

Chanbara

Chanbara

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2006

Indiana

Infection X

E/N

I see a lot of your points... too bad both ele and mes armor sucks though.
Mesmers could really use good armor too.

Francis Demeules

Francis Demeules

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

Canada, Qc

[Holy]

Me/Mo

d4nowar, not to troll, flame you or something like that, by your description in the location below your avatar, you say all what you think.

Avarre

Avarre

Bubblegum Patrol

Join Date: Dec 2005

Singapore Armed Forces

Quote:
Originally Posted by d4nowar
Arcane echo storm storm surge burn + smite hex on a warrior if i'm in a hex heavy area spelled destruction to basically everything I was fighting.
Regardless of AoE capabilities, this build is horrible. You were trying to play your mesmer as a pure direct damage dealer, and then wonder why an ele serves better in that role?

I don't see why anyone with a strong character cares about energy storage in PvE (unless they use the skills involving it), all characters should be balanced to be completely sufficient energy wise. When your energy is low, your primary attribute becomes aboslutely nothing, you regen just the same. Dropping ES completely for energy management would take you a long way...

I think you just defeated yourself. Nothing more to add. Though I don't consider d4nowar to be trolling as he backs up his statements... even though said back-ups are nonsensical.

Lint

Lint

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2006

In a house....

bleh

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloody Death
I deleted my monk because I was just basically tired of healing. Now, I wanna make an ele or mes, but I dont know which ones better. I like ele's because of all the things they can do, But I also have an interest in mesmers. What one is better for PvE?
Well i did the same thing, I was dead boared of my 55 monk, so i deleted him. I had the choice of ele or mes. I choice Elementalist. The reason why is bc a long time ago i thought of a build to solo SF. So when my elementalist gets to lvl 20 (currently lvl 9) i'll have the giulde up and running to explore the riches of SF . Anad when i say solo SF, I mean allmost everything in SF, besides the forest, to big of an aggro with the spike traps....

jackie

jackie

/retired

Join Date: Dec 2005

On the Beach

All Professions in Guild Wars are beautiful and deadly when they are used by skilled player.

If you have heard of All-Profession Events like All-Mesmer etc., you know it. After AoE update so many have turned away from Eles but I've kept mine and it is still very very versatile & effective class. Ele propably has the most combos in the game ranging from tank to nuker. Only imagination is limit there.

To give an example of mesmers powers, she/he can solo Glint with henchies for example very easily.

Both professions are very good and fun to play and the discrimination what goes on in Guild Wars about Eles & Mesmers is nonsense and very ignorant talk.

boxterduke

boxterduke

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

Walking the ruins of Ascalon

DVDF

Me/

To OP and anyone who says Mesmers run out of energy when nuking:
Use this and let me know if you run out, if you use it correctly then you will never run out.
I added Incendiary Bonds instead of rez and been playing with it and still no energy problems.

felinette

felinette

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2006

Girl Power [GP]

Me/

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackie
After AoE update so many have turned away from Eles but I've kept mine and it is still very very versatile & effective class. Ele propably has the most combos in the game ranging from tank to nuker. Only imagination is limit there.
I've got an ele on the go, and she rocks! I posted in another thread that she's one of the most powerful characters I've ever played. I wasn't around before they nerfed AoE so I never experienced an ele that could nuke enemies who didn't run. They must have been god-like.

The other night, my ele grouped to do The Wilds (I think it was The Wilds--the one where you have to save the Chosen from spiders at the end). The group turned out to be 1 monk, 1 necro, and 4 elementalists. My god, it made the mission easy.

I've played both a mesmer and an ele. They both rock in their own way. Choose whatever you think will be the most fun. Nothing else really matters.

Alleji

Alleji

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by boxterduke
Another useless person saying that Mesmers and Eles are useless in PvE.
HMMMM when were you when no one wanted Necros in their groups.
You are just one of the mainstream people that jump on current builds.

You think SS would kill a monk with Mark of Protection.

Think again.
Quote:
Mesmer. Eles are nearly useless in PvE, since SS single-handedly owns every ele nuke... and when was the last time you've seen a non-nuker ele in PvE?
Another useless person who clearly haven't learned punctuation in elementary school. Where have I said that they are useless?

Please take care to read what you're attempting to reply to and you'll have less chance of sounding like an idiot next time.

And yes, I think SS could solo a monk with MoP, provided the monk is clumped with a couple other things because:
a) Mark lasts 10 seconds and recharges in 45
b) The AI is too damn stupid to use it half the time

Empirism

Empirism

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2005

what I think, why try to be a nuker with mesmer anyway?, why try to be a mesmer with ele? ok fast cast nuker had its own usage, but all classess are best when they go for their own skills, mesmer is mesmer, nuker is nuker. just my 2 cents...and both classess are definately not useless.

hf

Naxohs Seralna

Naxohs Seralna

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2005

Norway

House of the Silver Phoenix (HSP)

E/R

Call my mesmer useless when I shatter that mark of protection and you watch the mesmer mobs take 147 damage from backfire while they're spamming conjure phantasm and crippling anguish...

Slightly off topic: Ascending my Me/N was the funniest thing ever...
Step one: Cast Backfire on dopple
Step two: Watch dopple use the necro sacrifise spells you put on your skill bar.

(Time it takes to cast backfire with fast casting) + (a few quick necro sac spells) = a quick ascension & fun for the whole family

IMO, make a mesmer.

Cherno

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

Stars of Destiny

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alleji
Another useless person who clearly hasn't learned punctuation in elementary school. Where have I said that they are useless?
This really isn't the tactic you want to take is it? BTW, fixed your error in grammar there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alleji
Please take care to read what you're attempting to reply to and you'll have less chance of sounding like an idiot next time.

And yes, I think SS could solo a monk with MoP, provided the monk is clumped with a couple other things because:
a) Mark lasts 10 seconds and recharges in 45
b) The AI is too damn stupid to use it half the time
This is the problem with SS, the conditional "if things are clumped." SS is very good, no doubt, but loses much effectiveness when you don't have a clump. Eles don't have that problem (not every nuker is a echo meteor you know.) An SS build tends to revolve around that one skill, and eles have the variety in their build to take on nicely grouped mobs, or single targets depending on situation. Tell me you can kill that creature that is chasing the monk around and not attacking with SS.

I am not going to say (unlike you) that eles can always outdamge an SS necro, because there are situations when they can't, and more situations when they can.

Rayne Nightfyre

Rayne Nightfyre

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

Acolytes of Lyssa [AL]

Me/A

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chanbara
I see a lot of your points... too bad both ele and mes armor sucks though.
Mesmers could really use good armor too.
Mesmers and Ele's have 60 Armor, the same as Monk and Necro(excluding Tormentor's etc). Their armor is less than Warrior's and Ranger's true, but it doesn't suck like everyone says it does. Try out Rogue's armor and Noble's/Virtuoso for Mesmer if you're in need of extra armor. Mesmers and Eles, just like Monks and Necros, aren't even intended to be taking excessive hits anyway, so armor shouldn't be a complaint against caster-types. So armor rating shouldn't be that big of a deal.

Mavrik

Mavrik

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2005

Alaska

only complication with rogue armor is the fact that sure it has a lot of energy regain but overall has low energy. I play a Mesmer/Ele myself and have a lot of fun with that build.

Arcanis the Omnipotent

Arcanis the Omnipotent

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2005

Nova Alliance

Me/

*shakes head at his class, goes to find a post less flame filled*

Theos

Theos

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

River Dancing

Eternal Treachery [TimE]

Me/E

Again with this over glorification of mesmers, my god. People have their opinions and again a soon as one bad thing is said about mesmers, a THRONG of people flok like morons to argue and start another war.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rayne2550
D4nowar, you might as well give your "argument" a rest. It's based on a biased opinion, not facts. The facts easily show that Mesmers are invaluable in PvE, and nothing will prove otherwise.
Opinion, purely opinion. I agree that we are useful but not invaluable. Wrong word choice, invaluable means we make or break a team everytime, which is not true. No single profession is invaluable, as that would be stupid and all you would see is that one profession.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rayne2550
Sure, it's possible to efficiently complete a quest or mission without a Mesmer, but having one in your party can only speed up the process. If there's an annoying Shadow Warrior chasing in on your Monk, put Ineptitude, Clumsiness and Empathy on it, and watch half of his health instantly disappear. You can't do that damage with an Elementalist, they don't ignore armor. If it's a Priest of Sorrow that you're having difficulty killing, slap it with Arcane Conundrum and use Power Leak, Power Spike, or CoF. The point is that a skilled Mesmer will save your butt in spots that would otherwise be difficult.
An elementalist can more effectively shut down multiple warriors, a mesmer can destroy one. Which is more valuable? The correct answer, neither. Both are equal. A mesmer can blow up one warrior, sure. An ele can condition five and create a literal circle of protection. An ele CAN easily deal the same damage (Obsidian anyone?) but they suffer for it. Then again so does a mesmer when it blows up half its energy on one target.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rayne2550
It's pathetic and extremely redundant that every thread with the word "Mesmer" in it eventually turns into an argument about whether or not they are useful in PvE. The ones who argue and say they are not are close-minded, and unwilling to think outside the cookie-cutter builds such as Nuker, SS, MM, Healer, and Boon Prot. So those who don't enjoy playing the class need to keep their comments to themselves.
You are partly guilty of turning this into an argument, this could have died on Page one but no. It just goes on and on as if someone came up to you with a gun and said "Mesmers suck, believe it or die!" No one did this, one person saying "That is your opinion, one that we don't have to agree with" would have been enough, there are countless threads with this argument recurring over and over, and here it is again.

Oddly were you not the one who wanted these stopped :P

CKaz

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2005

To the OPs post my answer is simple -
PvE I'd probably go Ele, you have time for spells, fast cast usually isnt as critical, meanwhile I'd rather have the big bang
PvP I'd probably go Mes, the fast cast and lineup are quite powerful and flexible, mes spike more than eles lately lol

Evilsod

Evilsod

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2006

England

Lievs Death Squad [LDS]

PvE Eles are much more needed. I see 'LF Mesmer to xx' about once every week in ToA. Even though nuking is utterly useless, lvl16 fire lvl13 ES with a couple of of spells + meteor shower still lays waste to a group of enemies.

Its just some groups dont seem to understand that rather than trying to blast through the superhealers defences you can simply bring as mesmer along and screw them over something bad

Seriously i go mesmer > ele anytime i get the opportunity. Shatter Hex is a nice damage dealer and WW + Empathy + Power Block = Dead Priest of Menzies solo style (and WW = dead wurm anyday )

Lord Iowerth

Lord Iowerth

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2005

Atlanta, GA (#guildwarsguru FTW!)

Biscuit Of Dewm [MEEP]

R/Mo

Here, i'll make it easy for you. An Ele and a Mesmer are fighting a warrior ...

An Elementalist says: "OMG I just hit you for like, 100 damage!"

A Mesmer says: "Why are you hitting yourself?"

Now be honest ... which one sounds like more fun? Ok, I thought so

draxynnic

draxynnic

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2005

[CRFH]

Quote:
Originally Posted by boxterduke
To OP and anyone who says Mesmers run out of energy when nuking:
Use this and let me know if you run out, if you use it correctly then you will never run out.
I added Incendiary Bonds instead of rez and been playing with it and still no energy problems.

[IMG snipped]
Nice build. I might have to give it a try sometime - I'll just have to check which slot I put my Inspiration rune. If you use it the way I imagine you use it, you'd still be getting about 10 exhaustion a minute*, but that's not a serious issue (as opposed to, say, trying to spam Chain Lightning ).

(Tried an ele during the preview event. Casting time is just sooo slooooow...)

EDIT: Just ran an independant test of the build, and it works as advertised, even without the equipment boxterduke appeared to be using. In fact, you're more likely to run into problems related to waiting for recharge than waiting for energy with the build, especially without the Inciendary Bonds...

tuperwho

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

Tenacious Knights of Doom [TKD]

Easy decision. Mesmers have the best /dance emotes in the game!

That should be enough, but if not, mesmers are just simply great. You can fill many roles, and it really lends to a better understanding of the game. You learn the many ways to counter certain enemies/skills, and how multiple roles can accomplish the same goal. Granted, you prob. won't get much respect, as others won't see you draining energy, interupting multiple targets, throwing down good amounts of damage... heck, they prob. won't even notice when you remove hexes if you don't call it. But you will always have the satisfaction of how much butt you kicked and everything you did.

Don't get me wrong, I loved my elementalist. But it's no comparison to the fun of a mesmer. There's just something about throwing down the gauntlet and then repeating to yourself "stop hitting yourself, stop hitting yourself", as your enemies minds melt. You can just simply dominate the baddies