Diversion vs Interrupt
What if...
I've got a question to asks experienced Mesmer players. When playing as a domination mesmer with Diversion and at least two interrupts and you come across a player in the process of casting a fairly long, but formidable spell (2 seconds or longer) that you know you can hit with either diversion or an interupt, which do you choose? Let's assume you're working with a decent level in fast casting that actully cut cast time of diversion to below 2 seconds so you: cast diversion and take the hit, knowing that that skill will be locked for the next minute, or interrupt it and move on. Or do you do some kind of recharge time impact calculus mid-round and make a decision on that?
holden
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Originally Posted by What if...
I've got a question to asks experienced Mesmer players. When playing as a domination mesmer with Diversion and at least two interrupts and you come across a player in the process of casting a fairly long, but formidable spell (2 seconds or longer) that you know you can hit with either diversion or an interupt, which do you choose? Let's assume you're working with a decent level in fast casting that actully cut cast time of diversion to below 2 seconds so you: cast diversion and take the hit, knowing that that skill will be locked for the next minute, or interrupt it and move on. Or do you do some kind of recharge time impact calculus mid-round and make a decision on that?
diversion has a cooldown of 10 seconds so you want to spam the hell out of it. maxed out domination gives you a 59 second penelty to put on your foe for casting that spell. if the monk doesn't get his offering of blood for 59 seconds he's in a hurting way. any caster suffers when he has to wait for 1 minute to get his baby back. even if you get nailed with meteor, he wont cast his bread and butter spell for a while.
i take cry of frustration or leech sig into arena to interrupt skills and res sig. power drain to get back energy. the cool down on interrupts is high for the most part and you wont get as much use out of them in arena as you would in pve.
diversion has a cooldown of 10 seconds so you want to spam the hell out of it. maxed out domination gives you a 59 second penelty to put on your foe for casting that spell. if the monk doesn't get his offering of blood for 59 seconds he's in a hurting way. any caster suffers when he has to wait for 1 minute to get his baby back. even if you get nailed with meteor, he wont cast his bread and butter spell for a while.
i take cry of frustration or leech sig into arena to interrupt skills and res sig. power drain to get back energy. the cool down on interrupts is high for the most part and you wont get as much use out of them in arena as you would in pve.
Hella Good
Diversion/shutdown is in my opinion superior to interrupt. The short term benefit of inters is offset by their long term drawbacks. I'd much rather divert a skill for 1min than try to interrupt it every time it's being used. But like the person above me said, some sort of universal interrupt is good to have for certain situations. Cry/Leech Sig serve that purpose very well. On the flip side, I know a lot of people love playing Migraine inters.
twicky_kid
Players know not to cast through diversion. If you do catch some one with it blame it on luck not skill (well skill if they are complete noobs).
Otherwise its a 6 sec shutdown with a 4 sec cool down. Migrane interrupts is better because you can shut down a target for 15+ sec while draining their energy, gaining energy, and dealing dmg.
Diversion is a skills used for spiking. Cast diversion on a monk and spike the target. It forces him to cast through it if he wishes to attempt a save. Other than that there are better options. That 2+ sec cast time hurts in the long run.
Otherwise its a 6 sec shutdown with a 4 sec cool down. Migrane interrupts is better because you can shut down a target for 15+ sec while draining their energy, gaining energy, and dealing dmg.
Diversion is a skills used for spiking. Cast diversion on a monk and spike the target. It forces him to cast through it if he wishes to attempt a save. Other than that there are better options. That 2+ sec cast time hurts in the long run.
Hella Good
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Originally Posted by twicky_kid
Do you know what you are talking about btw?Quote: Originally Posted by twicky_kid Otherwise its a 6 sec shutdown with a 4 sec cool down.
Aparently not. I really suggest you double check with www.guildwiki.org next time you talk about a skill you have no experience with. At least will give you some credibility when talking. Quote:
You my friend are incorrect!!|
Originally Posted by twicky_kid
Diversion is a skills used for spiking. Cast diversion on a monk and spike the target. It forces him to cast through it if he wishes to attempt a save. Other than that there are better options. That 2+ sec cast time hurts in the long run.
Yea, Wiki is a good place to start. You need to play with the skill some to get the experience but Wiki is a start.
Banebow
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Valkyries
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Originally Posted by twicky_kid
Players know not to cast through diversion. If you do catch some one with it blame it on luck not skill (well skill if they are complete noobs).
Otherwise its a 6 sec shutdown with a 4 sec cool down. Migrane interrupts is better because you can shut down a target for 15+ sec while draining their energy, gaining energy, and dealing dmg. Diversion is a skills used for spiking. Cast diversion on a monk and spike the target. It forces him to cast through it if he wishes to attempt a save. Other than that there are better options. That 2+ sec cast time hurts in the long run. Huh? Why is Migrane interrupts better again? Migrane is alright, dont' get me wrong. But when talking about Diversion, this is MVP in so many builds. Its bloody sick against almost every class. Or maybe I didn't understand your statement.... Also, I have no problems at all hitting people with Diversion. I spam that every chance I get. Even if it does nothing it stops someone from using a spell they REALLY want to cast for 10 seconds. Thats the worst possible scenerio. Best is they loose that skill for a minute. To answer the OP's question, I really don't think Diversion can be used in the way you describe. Its still pretty slow (even at 1.5 seconds with FC) so I normally just run interupts. Power Drain or Power Leak are two of my favorites. So I interupt the skill, then I Diversion them right away incase they try to recast again without thinking about it. If your lucky you may get both the skill interupted AND have diversion kick in. Just to use it in the way you describe, you would have to be God like Trigger happy to almost predict what they are casting. By the time you click your button, and the spell casts, more than likely they'll already have it casts and on to their next spell. Thats why if you interupt first and then Diversion you could kill two birds with one stone.
What if...
I kind of agree with the general consensus that a successful diversion is not too difficult to land (especially on monks who have degenerated into ROF spamming frenzies), but I have noticed on diverting the occational SS or Meteor Shower, that a mesmer will skip the casting animation entirely and cast the spell as though it were interrupting it. This is probably the staff or weapon mod kicking in, but I've serendipidously diverted spells mid-cast on more than a few occasions.
twicky_kid
Hella Good you might want think about what is being said before you respond.
Diversion is a 6 sec duration with a 10 recharge that's a 4 second cool down time. If you count in casting that's 8+ seconds. At high end gvg you will see diversion replaced by blackout because its a clear superior option that completely locks their bar and erases any adrenaline. If you want to compare it to interrupts the interrupts are still better. Migrane covered by conjure is 18 dmg per second that ignores armor. If they cast you power leak, power drain, leech sig, or cry the target. Shutting them down completely instead of just snagging 1 skill by chance. If you catch a dumb player casting through diversion for no reason that's not a reliable way to look at diversion. Most players would wait that 6 seconds instead of waiting another minute. In the end interrupts are better due to the dmg from migrane and conjure. Diversion can disable a skill but the chances are very slim at high end gvg. Not to mention trying to cast it in the first place. FYI savage shot has faster recharge so you can expect to be interrupted every chance you get to cast it if they lock a ranger on you. There are simply better options in lockout and interrupting.
Demon Rebel
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Originally Posted by twicky_kid
At high end gvg you will see diversion replaced by blackout because its a clear superior option that completely locks their bar and erases any adrenaline.
FYI savage shot has faster recharge so you can expect to be interrupted every chance you get to cast it if they lock a ranger on you. I'd say that Blackout stands a better chance of doing more damage to yourself than to the other player. Yes a 2-6 second time of the Foe having their skill bar "blackedout" can be helpful, but you take yourself out of the loop for 5 seconds every time. Do you chain everything while walking up to your target just to touch them and run away? (I don't find that feasible) With a higher lvl of FC you can decrease the time used to cast Diversion. If you have a Savage Shot Ranger and time ... get in a position to drop Diversion on them - fast recharging spammable skill under Diversion is exact reason you have the skill. There are suggestions of using Wastrels Worry in combo with Diversion - this forces the Player (Caster/Tank/Ranger) into sacrificing a skill in order to miss the damage caused by WW. Now I have not yet used any of these skills in PvP (they will be used tonight) but they sound feasible and the outcome is better than both skill bars being locked for 5 and 2-6 seconds. Just my two cents. ~Demon
Valkyries
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Originally Posted by twicky_kid
At high end gvg you will see diversion replaced by blackout because its a clear superior option that completely locks their bar and erases any adrenaline. |
This is NOT true... pay attention in Observe mode. 99% of the TOP builds ARE indeed running Diversion. You want to know why they don't run Blackout? Because if you try to Blackout a Monk the Warriors will eat you before you get there. If you want to Black out a Warrior, you turn what I like to call insta-squishy and the Warrior is going to pound on your head repeatedly. If you think what Im saying is incorrect, you can always go ask in the GVG Forum (I've already done so).
You are right about the interupt part though. But I never said to ever use Diversion for an Interupt. IT SHOULD NOT be used in this manner. Yes you can pull something off, and get a good spell locked out for a minute. But that isn't the point of Diversion. The point is to repeatedly cast it on a spellcaster to really annoy them to no end and lock out some of their skills. Its a safe bet to say they bring 7 skills + res into combat for a reason. So they either wait 6 seconds OR they loose one of those skills for 60 seconds. Either way, its a win win situation. In addition, it has a pretty fast recharge time... so you can keep using it. This is its purpose, not for interupting. If you want to use interupts use Power Drain, Power Leak, Leech Signet, etc. You may think 6 seconds isn't long, but I assure you when someone needs healing or is doing something in a chain or a spike 6 seconds is quite long to cast NONE of your skills.
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Otherwise its a 6 sec shutdown with a 4 sec cool down. And I am SURE you meant 60 seconds shutdown and not 6 seconds. Unless again you mean 6 second duration for Diversion which I explained above. As Hella Good said, you can chain this and use it with a lot of other good Dom Mesmer skills. Glyph Mesmers use this as a very good base and they make life extremely difficult.
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are you saying you'll cast res sig to counter diversion?
Migrane covered by conjure is 18 dmg per second that ignores armor. If they cast you power leak, power drain, leech sig, or cry the target. Shutting them down completely instead of just snagging 1 skill by chance. If you catch a dumb player casting through diversion for no reason that's not a reliable way to look at diversion.
Are you saying use Migrane so you can easily interupt them? Ill take a very nice quote from Vindexus who is very regularly on this forum. i hope he doesn't mind....  "People who use Migraine for easy interupts are scrubs." ^^ Agree Not saying Migrane is a bad skill because it isn't. But that isn't the point of it. Why people think the only good mesmers are Migrane and ESurger Ill never know.
holden
migraine is an ok spell. a great spell maybe but just an ok elite. it's nice that at high illusion you can keep it on a target at all times but the 3 degen doesnt mean anything to me. arcane conundrum is a better choice because it leaves your elite free.
i agree with vindexus, if you need dazed, migraine or arcane C to get off an interrupt you're a scrub. 'Most players would wait that 6 seconds instead of waiting another minute. In the end interrupts are better due to the dmg from migrane and conjure. Diversion can disable a skill but the chances are very slim at high end gvg. Not to mention trying to cast it in the first place. FYI savage shot has faster recharge so you can expect to be interrupted every chance you get to cast it if they lock a ranger on you.' you can't sit on a caster waiting to interrupt him forever. the cooldowns for interrupt skills are 15, 20, 20, 25 and 45.
What if...
The annoyingly long recharge times on said interrupts are, I guess, are another reason why diversion maybe the better option, situational as it may be. But, your opinions have led me to conclude that a mesmer will divert that which they can and interrupt those which he cannot. Is this a sufficient conclusion, or am I oversimplifying the matter?
Valkyries
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Originally Posted by What if...
The annoyingly long recharge times on said interrupts are, I guess, are another reason why diversion maybe the better option, situational as it may be. But, your opinions have led me to conclude that a mesmer will divert that which they can and interrupt those which he cannot. Is this a sufficient conclusion, or am I oversimplifying the matter?
Sigh.....
Say this with me. Diversion is not situational You are using it completely wrong if you think its situation. Its not meant to interupt, you have other skills that interupt. I think you should just give this a try and see how it works. Problem is to be a very good mesmer, you need to practice and not give up on skills or a certain build which is why most ppl do not become good mesmers. They quit and become a Warrior or an Elementalist. Nothing against these skills at all, but this is what happens. So my best advise, try it, along with a lot of other good mesmer skills put together. If you are new, ESurger is a decent choice (Add Diversion, trust me it wont hurt you) and see how you go from there.
holden
cast diversion every 10 seconds until that foe is dead. or echo it, arcane echo it. glyph of renewal it. put in on the casting foe continuously. it doesn't matter what else your build does, diversion stands on it's own.
Hella Good
I happen to play a Monk, in fact I used to play Boon Prot exclusively for awhile. Migraine is meh... It's always a RoF/CoP away from being done and out of the door (including the Conjure cover). Heck I can PS on top of it, too, if you are going to go hex heavy on me... If you think you can interrupt any of these: RoF, CoP, PS... you are, in fact, smoking some reeeeeeeeal good stuff. Don't get me wrong: hexes do work on Boon Prots but you have to stack A whole lot of them and in a very, very, rapid succession.
P.S. Do I need to go into Holy Veil? I hope not... EDIT: Diversion destroys Boon Prots. Diversion and Blackout are the 2 Mesmer skills that I have always hated the most when playing Monk.
Evilsod
Diversion and Blackout are spells designed to make you shout at the computer
 If your not looking around enough to see whats going on a lucky fast cast or quick reaction from the mesmer and you won't be seeing Aegis for a while. Plus what would your bonder hate more? Distracting Shot into his Blessed Signet (30second recharge) or a lvl16 Diversion onto it (69second recharge). It really depends who your targetting. You can't interrupt RoF but you sure as hell can can get it for 59seconds. Sometimes it can be more useful than interrupting SS too, if they're gonna cover it with Parasitic Bond (which they should do) they'll lose that spell instead. Eaimirth Etaivella
Diversion at the moment is the only counter to CoP; it does not under any conditions shut down the boon prot (thank you holy veil)
*sighs* Migraine is better because diversion has a long cast, is energy intensive, has too short a duration, lastly I will bring to the arguement the "fodder" skills which can be used to "plow" through diversion with little or no trouble. Classic fodder skills are "Res Signet" "Long duration:short downtime stances" and "Situational Skills that fail to meet their niche" and "skill that only need to be cast once" (an example is I'm cast the obsidian flame that is going to kill you; it doesn't matter if it is delayed if you die- I accomplished my job, you as the mesmer may have disabled me temporarly but I have disabled you) Blackout is truly the better skill, it is non-situational, shuts down all their skills, can be coordinated with knockdown, and stacks perfectly with the one of the best stances in the game to shut the hell out of enamy warriors: distortion. Fine; for all you Ra/Me out there; use dodge, escape, whatever perfectly good skills in the expertise line since distortion nerf for you guys. At best, diversion will lock-down your target for 6 seconds. You lose 10 energy for disabling them for those 6 seconds, in those 6 seconds you gain 8 energy, likly they will as well. In short, they gain 8, you lose 2 but have a "possable" 6 second period where they will not be using skills. Questions you should be asking yourself -Is it worth it? -Are they running veil? --Will someone else remove it? ---Should I use a cover hex; or do I use it as a cover hex? -Is it worth a spot in my skill bar? Conclusion-no Illusion magic has migraine Inspiration magic has interrupts and MoPersistence -these two are a classic combo that many people use. Domination magic has power block; a skill that plows through diversion in every way. You cannot interrupt RoF, or SP, but you can interrupt WoH with it (unassisted even), and like BO it cannot be removed. Diversion dies to HolyVeil Hella Good, glad you brought that up. In my belief; diversion is not worth using since its nerf long ago. It needs its old power, we need a counter for BoonProts as at the time there is no class in the game that can take one down unassissted.
Hella Good
I just played a few matches versus Boon Prots using Arcane Thevery, Diversion, Blackout, and Sig of Humility... I clearly have no idea what you are talking about, since I dealt with the Boon Prots in seconds... I used Echo as elite... Was easy as hell...
holden
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Originally Posted by Eaimirth Etaivella
*sighs* Migraine is better because diversion has a long cast, is energy intensive, has too short a duration, lastly I will bring to the arguement the "fodder" skills which can be used to "plow" through diversion with little or no trouble. Classic fodder skills are "Res Signet" "Long duration:short downtime stances" and "Situational Skills that fail to meet their niche" and "skill that only need to be cast once" (an example is I'm cast the obsidian flame that is going to kill you; it doesn't matter if it is delayed if you die- I accomplished my job, you as the mesmer may have disabled me temporarly but I have disabled you) |
a boon prot has NO 'fodder skills'. every skill is important. if your build has 'fodder skills' it's not a very well thought out build.
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Questions you should be asking yourself
-Is it worth it?
-Are they running veil?
--Will someone else remove it?
---Should I use a cover hex; or do I use it as a cover hex?
-Is it worth a spot in my skill bar?
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Originally Posted by Eaimirth Etaivella
Domination magic has power block; a skill that plows through diversion in every way. You cannot interrupt RoF, or SP, but you can interrupt WoH with it (unassisted even), and like BO it cannot be removed. Diversion dies to HolyVeil Hella Good, glad you brought that up.
this is laughable. what boonprot monk uses word of healing.
wastrels worry is a fine cover hex for diversion. unless you plan on keeping up holy veil the whole fight.
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wastrels worry is a fine cover hex for diversion. unless you plan on keeping up holy veil the whole fight.
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You are taking migrane in the context of a migrane mesmer with interrupts and taking diversion all by it self assuming no support skills. And what is this about fodder skills? Why do you need to use that res signet, have you let an ally die? That stance of yours is about to have a bloody long recharge time. Killing the mesmer is not using a fodder skill. The only skills that actually fit as fodder skills are things like anti-warrior skills when fighting a group without warriors.|
Originally Posted by Eaimirth Etaivella
In my belief; diversion is not worth using since its nerf long ago. It needs its old power, we need a counter for BoonProts as at the time there is no class in the game that can take one down unassissted.
that's a ridiculous thing to say and totally false. though i agree your migraine build won't take him down.
NatalieD
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Originally Posted by holden
what's your point here? diversion causes the skill essentially to cooldown for 59 seconds. where do you get 6? are you confusing diversion with ether lord?
He means the 6 second duration of Diversion - the time during which the target will not use any skills.
Banebow
Holy veil counters diversion only if veil is up before diversion lands on the target. Last I knew, monks don't run around maintaining this skill, they use it like they would smite hex. That means it is no better than normal hex removal at countering diversion.
Originally Posted by Eaimirth Etaivella
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Originally Posted by twicky_kid
Migrane covered by conjure is 18 dmg per second that ignores armor. If they cast you power leak, power drain, leech sig, or cry the target. Shutting them down completely instead of just snagging 1 skill by chance
I am curious about how these migrane mesmers are getting 100% interrupt hits on 0.5 second RoF's. Do you get a higher overall shutdown? Sure, over any 20 second period of time it is probably true that a migrane mesmer will get more shutdown than a mesmer with diversion and nothing else on his bar. Funnily enough however, most mesmers have more than one skill dedicated to shutdown if they plan on running it. Yet you only include those other skills for the migrane mesmer, probably because no current FoTM build is going around that uses diversion, so we have no base case. Still, any comparison that has one side using 3+ skills and the other using 1 is not going to prove anything.
twicky_kid
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Originally Posted by Banebow
I am curious about how these migrane mesmers are getting 100% interrupt hits on 0.5 second RoF's. Do you get a higher overall shutdown? Sure, over any 20 second period of time it is probably true that a migrane mesmer will get more shutdown than a mesmer with diversion and nothing else on his bar. Funnily enough however, most mesmers have more than one skill dedicated to shutdown if they plan on running it. Yet you only include those other skills for the migrane mesmer, probably because no current FoTM build is going around that uses diversion, so we have no base case. Still, any comparison that has one side using 3+ skills and the other using 1 is not going to prove anything.
Who says you use it on a boon prot? Find a healer, emo, or e surger to interrupt. Plenty of other targets then a boon prot.
Nothing to do with a FoTM build. Diversion and Migrane have both been equally used since the beginning of the game. Diversion used to dominate with its 2 second cast before FC. The way I look at diversion is its a chance skill. You have a chance to disable a skill. Blackout there is no chance. Migrane there is no chance. I'm not going to use a skill that "might" work. It does have its place in some builds. With the current meta game I believe its cast time is too slow. If you do spam it that's all you'll be doing. If not you'll be interrupted majority of the time at high end gvg. 1 Ranger will own you trying to spam this all the time. I'd use diversion the same way you use shame. Force them into a situation where they have to cast through it or react before they notice the diversion. By no means is diversion a useless skill but its very easy to get around.
Valkyries
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At best, diversion will lock-down your target for 6 seconds. You lose 10 energy for disabling them for those 6 seconds, in those 6 seconds you gain 8 energy, likely they will as well.
You just destroyed your entire argument right here. | Read what you wrote. AT BEST Diversion will lock down your target for 6 seconds. Which correct me if Im wrong, thats the same thing Blackout does is it not? So lets look at the differences. Blackout -> Touch spell. So you have to get CLOSE to the Monk/Spellcaster/Whichever. You obviously have never done any HA/GVG because you would know that these guys are usually on the back line. And if you go and try to Black them out you are probably going to loose at least half your life in the process, or even die. So if you think dying is worth a monk not having skills for 7 seconds, then by all means go for it. Diversion -> MINUMIM they don't cast anything for 6 seconds (basically the same as blackout yes? Except they don't cast willingly because they are "scared" to loose a skill for an entire minute). Not to meantion your skills are still all well and good so you can Sure, Glyph, Power Drain, whatever your heart desires. Next, Diversion is a spell that can be cast from far away. So no dying just to TRY and get to a Monk. You may use the argument, "yes but you use Blackout on a Warrior"... yes this is true. It kills their Adrienline. But do you realize what he is going to do to you when you have this 1.5 or so second "pause" in front of your enemy warrior and all his skills are disabled? Its not like he isn't going to know where it came from. Like it has any surprise factor. He is going to turn, and proceed to smash your face with his (Insert fav Warrior weapon of choice here). So I really don't see how Blackout is better in any high lvl GVG. In RA/TA, it can be debated. In HA/GVG, its no comparion. Seriously, go into Observer mode and WATCH what EVERY HIGH LVL GUILD IS RUNNING. Blackout will be in about 5% while Diversion will be 95%. Yes those stats are made up but Im probably not that far off.
Valkyries
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Originally Posted by twicky_kid
I'd use diversion the same way you use shame. Force them into a situation where they have to cast through it or react before they notice the diversion. By no means is diversion a useless skill but its very easy to get around.
Ouch!
I Don't even know how to comment on this.....
Hella Good
Blackout + Distortion is how it works. You can put Dist on while casting Blackout. Works fine for me. I get the evasion and I get the shutdown. I was just Echoing B/o earlier with Dist. There is something evil about keeping some1 in the dark till the cows come home.
 And you actually have the time to use a skill inbetween your chain B/o-s. Got side-tracked... On topic, all the shutdown skills you can chain so whatever it is your target is doing, it's either diverted, or shut down, or take massive damage for spells, or they lose nrg.
twicky_kid
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Originally Posted by Valkyries
You may use the argument, "yes but you use Blackout on a Warrior"... yes this is true. It kills their Adrienline. But do you realize what he is going to do to you when you have this 1.5 or so second "pause" in front of your enemy warrior and all his skills are disabled? Its not like he isn't going to know where it came from. Like it has any surprise factor. He is going to turn, and proceed to smash your face with his (Insert fav Warrior weapon of choice here).
So I really don't see how Blackout is better in any high lvl GVG. In RA/TA, it can be debated. In HA/GVG, its no comparion. Seriously, go into Observer mode and WATCH what EVERY HIGH LVL GUILD IS RUNNING. Blackout will be in about 5% while Diversion will be 95%. Yes those stats are made up but Im probably not that far off. Blackout is ran on rangers majority of the time. Some mes run it as well. If you blackout a war the most he can do to you is normal dmg since his attack skills are locked. 5-7 seconds is plenty of time to kite away. Besides you should have enough war hate to survive no problem. Blind, faint, blackout, ect is enough to shut down any war. If he turns on you and chases that's fine. I don't mind killing over extended wars. The trick with blackout is few can use it well. You don't want to run to their back lines to blackout a monk. That is just dumb in the first place.
Valkyries
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Originally Posted by twicky_kid
Blackout is ran on rangers majority of the time. Some mes run it as well. If you blackout a war the most he can do to you is normal dmg since his attack skills are locked. 5-7 seconds is plenty of time to kite away. Besides you should have enough war hate to survive no problem. Blind, faint, blackout, ect is enough to shut down any war. If he turns on you and chases that's fine. I don't mind killing over extended wars.
The trick with blackout is few can use it well. You don't want to run to their back lines to blackout a monk. That is just dumb in the first place. Really?? So how are you going to "kite away" when all of your skills are disabled as well? What Warrior Hate?? If you are running a Dom Mesmer, then you are probably not heavy illusion. Meaning you are not running REAL Warrior hate like Ineptitude, Clumsy, etc. Besides, your skills are locked. So if by Kite you mean Run then I really do not see the purpose of your argument what so ever. You can either a) Cast blackout and run away which results in a lot more time wasted because there is really no point or b) Cast Diversion, not run away, and cast other spells on other targets as they come up. Power Draining Elementals, Cry of Frustation on the Warriors, etc, etc... As for Rangers, why would you ever blackout a ranger??? If they are trapped based, that makes NO sense to me at all... if they are interupted based, they are probably in the back lines close to/protecting the Monk. Interupting from afar. So you would have to run to the back lines to get to them. Lets face it, Blackout is best used on a spellcaster, because then they are squishy with no way to defend themselves. It works well with a spike. Blackout Target, the rest of the team spike him/her, move on to next target. Im sorry but that argument makes no sense to me. EDIT: Oh perhaps you meant Ran AS a Ranger. IE Ranger/Mesmer build? Is that what you meant? If so, not related to this mesmer discussion. Since this is what we are talking about. I won't even get into other classes because there are definitely pros/cons for that. And just for the record, I would consider running Blackout as a Ranger for shutdown, that would be viable.... Much much more than running Blackout as a Mesmer.
twicky_kid
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Originally Posted by Valkyries
What Warrior Hate?? If you are running a Dom Mesmer, then you are probably not heavy illusion. Meaning you are not running REAL Warrior hate like Ineptitude, Clumsy, etc. Besides, your skills are locked. So if by Kite you mean Run then I really do not see the purpose of your argument what so ever.
You can either a) Cast blackout and run away which results in a lot more time wasted because there is really no point or b) Cast Diversion, not run away, and cast other spells on other targets as they come up. Power Draining Elementals, Cry of Frustation on the Warriors, etc, etc... Yes kite means running away. You want to try to cross other players so the war gets stuck on them while he pounds the space bar chasing you. War hate coming from your team mates not just yourself. Blackout a war = no spike. Backbreaker, evisc, and final take a while to gain enough adrenaline. Blackout erases that adrenaline. Diversion will just make his pound on you for another 6 sec before spiking you down. Like it or not warriors are the meta game. No other class can output as much dmg. If you do not prepare for wars in ways of shutting them down you are not going to last long. There are the occasional spike teams but they simply do not last. The longer the battle goes on the worse it gets for spike teams. As for the argument here diversion is better in the context of the arguement. That's because interrupts are never good alone no matter how you look at it. Interrupts synergy with other skills is what makes them so powerful. Diversion really doesn't have any synergy with anything its just something that is thrown in there because what else would you take from the dom line. You already have your dmg from surge, burn, ect.... If you try to look at this without including other skills this debate is really nothing. I have more than 1 skill on my bar. Its they synergy between those skills that make them affective. I don't think any skill is that great alone.
The Real Roy Keane
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eaimirth Etaivella
In my belief; diversion is not worth using since its nerf long ago. It needs its old power, we need a counter for BoonProts as at the time there is no class in the game that can take one down unassissted.
No, it doesn't. When you can almost completely shutdown an opponent using one skill it's broken, plain and simple.
What if...
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Real Roy Keane
No, it doesn't. When you can almost completely shutdown an opponent using one skill it's broken, plain and simple.
I'm curious, what were the conditions of the pre-nerf diversion?
twicky_kid
Quote:
Originally Posted by What if...
I'm curious, what were the conditions of the pre-nerf diversion?
Increased casting time to 3; Increased recharge to 10 seconds.
Used to be 2 sec cast and 5? recharge might have been 8
JR
Barring skills such as Distracting Shot which give the interrupted skill a 20 second cool down, there is a fairly simple and logical rule.
Regards to the skill you are interrupting: If it's recharge is longer than the duration of your diversion (30s, 60s etc) then an interrupt is fine. If it is a very short recharge (2s, 5s etc) then diversion will be a lot more effective. qwe4rty
Quote:
Originally Posted by twicky_kid
Players know not to cast through diversion. If you do catch some one with it blame it on luck not skill (well skill if they are complete noobs).
Otherwise its a 6 sec shutdown with a 4 sec cool down. Migrane interrupts is better because you can shut down a target for 15+ sec while draining their energy, gaining energy, and dealing dmg. Diversion is a skills used for spiking. Cast diversion on a monk and spike the target. It forces him to cast through it if he wishes to attempt a save. Other than that there are better options. That 2+ sec cast time hurts in the long run. You misread. The caster was already in the process of casting a longer than 2 minute spell. Therefore, if Diversion gets on him fast enough, he's screwed.
Mouse at Large
Just out of interest, why is Clumsiness never mentioned in the context of interrupts. As far as I can see, the description is "For 4-7 seconds, the next time target foe attempts to attack, the attack is interrupted and target foe suffers 10-76 damage."
As far as I'm aware "attack" covers both melee and casting (possibly sigs as well?) 10 energy, 1 sec cast, 10 recharge. Sure, it does not actually steal energy, so it's shutdown value is minimal, but combined with E-Surge on casters or Ineptitude on melees, I find it to be very useful
Theos
Quote:
Originally Posted by qwe4rty
You misread. The caster was already in the process of casting a longer than 2 minute spell. Therefore, if Diversion gets on him fast enough, he's screwed.
Two minute spell? Wow...
Anyway, I have to agree with Twicky. Diversion is too luck dependant... its also a hex. If we are comparing to Blackout, there is really no contest. Blackout is a far better skill that just works, it doesn't require an immense degree of luck or a long casting time spell... or some idiot hitting buttons. As for Migrane, well to each his own. I'd take Migrane and the degen over Diversion though. In GvG Diversion becomes pointless, it may get someone the first time its used but thats going to be it. Just a "oh wow didn't see that coming" deal. Next time you land it, or try to land it that cast time is easy to interupt, it will get removed or waited out. If people can survive Blackout shutting down their skills for 7 seconds, I am sure they can bare 6 seconds of an easily removable hex. Now if you build a build that is designed to plow Diversion under many cover hexes then sure it won't get removed but it will get waited out. Its too conditional and luck based to have any realistic value in PvP where monkey mashers are not involved. Diversion mesmers are also prime targets for Distracting Shot rangers, "Hey look diversion... slowly being cast... pow... oop no more diversion." LouAl
@ theos
I think qwe4rty meant a 2 sec cast, not 2 minute... (maybe you knew that and were being sarcastic) @ mouse at large Clumsiness is an interrupt-ish spell in the same way that shame or guilt is an interrupt-ish spell, it only works IF they try to attack (in the case of clumsy) or cast (in the case of the guilt/shame). To answer your question on clumsiness triggers, it only triggers on an attack, not a spell/non-attack skill (ie vamp touch) My opinion is that clumsiness is there to catch a warrior before s/he can stopp attacking so in that sense it is a create pressure/catch them off gaurd type spell, and the interrupt is just there as a bonus.
Mouse at Large
@ LouAl - it's not that I doubt you, but is there a second opinion on the clumsiness trigger. I thought that "attack" covered melee/physical and spell/signet attacks. The only things left out would be stuff that targets allies/self e.g heals, hex removals etc.
holden
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theos
Now if you build a build that is designed to plow Diversion under many cover hexes then sure it won't get removed but it will get waited out. Its too conditional and luck based to have any realistic value in PvP where monkey mashers are not involved.
Diversion mesmers are also prime targets for Distracting Shot rangers, "Hey look diversion... slowly being cast... pow... oop no more diversion." i dont think you've ever played with diversion. you said some goofy things. In gvg diversion becomes pointless? i don't know how you can justify that. i dont know how this became a debate between diversion and blackout. many mesmers take both. mesmers have fastcasting. this allows a lot of freedom. is the ranger just going to sit on me and wait for diversion? if so i'm doing a great job. i'd rather him sit on me than the monk. degen is for chumps. noobs. and degen spells are all hexes as well. removed just as easily as diversion. cover hexes are a great idea.
Valkyries
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theos
Two minute spell? Wow...
Anyway, I have to agree with Twicky. Diversion is too luck dependant... its also a hex. If we are comparing to Blackout, there is really no contest. Blackout is a far better skill that just works, it doesn't require an immense degree of luck or a long casting time spell... or some idiot hitting buttons. As for Migrane, well to each his own. I'd take Migrane and the degen over Diversion though. In GvG Diversion becomes pointless, it may get someone the first time its used but thats going to be it. Just a "oh wow didn't see that coming" deal. Next time you land it, or try to land it that cast time is easy to interupt, it will get removed or waited out. If people can survive Blackout shutting down their skills for 7 seconds, I am sure they can bare 6 seconds of an easily removable hex. Now if you build a build that is designed to plow Diversion under many cover hexes then sure it won't get removed but it will get waited out. Its too conditional and luck based to have any realistic value in PvP where monkey mashers are not involved. Diversion mesmers are also prime targets for Distracting Shot rangers, "Hey look diversion... slowly being cast... pow... oop no more diversion." This is really not meant to be rude at all but its going to sound it. You seriously have no idea what you are talking about. Diversion is pointless in GVG? Are you kidding me? Diversion is AWESOME in PVP.... AWESOME! Learn to play a bit in high lvl PVP. Before you make judgement calls on things you know little about. Im sorry, Im not trying to be rude but your comments erk me. Holden said it best. Most mesmers take both blackout and Diversion. Why this turned into a huge debate on which to take Im not really sure. I made the argument that if you were to take one, in HA/GVG Diversion is superior and I know this is true because Ive tested it, Ive read the forums, I've looked at the top guilds and I've talked about it wtih people in game and on this site. I highly doubt that EVERYONE is wrong. As said, its good to take both in some situations but if I had the choice of one or the other its Diversion hands down. |
