I have a Degen build for Necromancers primary that focuses more on stacking degen, thread can be found here: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ighlight=degen
Now I've decided to make a sequel degen build, if you will, for mesmers primary, and it won't involve as much degen stack as the N/Me Degen build did.
Illusion: 12+1+3=16
Inspiration: 14
Skillbar:
1.)Migraine {E}
2.)Conjure Phantasm
3.)Images of Remorse
4.)Accumulated Pain/Ether Feast
5.)Mantra of Persistence
6.)Energy Tap
7.)Plague Touch
8.)Rez Sig
Weapon: Illusion Staff with 1 +30 health mod, 1 +5 Energy mod
Good Degen, PvE or PvP. Mainly PvP, RA/TA. 3 simple good degen skills, then Accumulated Knowlegde to lay a Deep Wound then gain some energy and switch targets, or stack on one person, or spread your degens to put more pressure, you decide. Also, cast the Mantra before anything else as it increases your hex durations.
Note that Accumulated Knowledge and Images of Remorse are both from Factions.
Degen Me/N
Wretchman Drake
dgb
Ether lord gives you next to no energy at 9 inspiration. Eight seconds of two pips = 16 seconds of one pip = 5 1/3 energy points. You spend five energy to cast it, and you've gained 1/3 of a point of energy.
Wretchman Drake
I see. Perhaps Energy Tap then =/
It's hard for me to see the stats on Ether Lord because I'm not at the game atm
It's hard for me to see the stats on Ether Lord because I'm not at the game atm
Murder In China
Maybe use Inspired Hex, Inspired Enchantment, or Drain enchantment as an energy mangement skill. Ether Lord wouldn't help much.
Wretchman Drake
WHich is better?
Energy Tap
Inspired Hex
Inspired Enchantment
Drain Enchantment
Which one of these skills is more dependable on for energy in your opinion.
Energy Tap
Inspired Hex
Inspired Enchantment
Drain Enchantment
Which one of these skills is more dependable on for energy in your opinion.
Terra Xin
I'd use drain enchantment myself.
Images of remorse is a cool spell.. man I cant wait for factions.
I dont know why noone likes conjure nightmare... It works well against turtles and monks with regen skills.
Death to Luxons!!! /roar
~Iassar Du Haven
Images of remorse is a cool spell.. man I cant wait for factions.
I dont know why noone likes conjure nightmare... It works well against turtles and monks with regen skills.
Death to Luxons!!! /roar
~Iassar Du Haven
Murder In China
I believe Drain enchantments.
Wretchman Drake
Inspiration is only at 9... Drain Enchantment would either make me lose even more energy or make no change. Energy Tap it is.
Murder In China
Elementalist spamming Conjure Nightmare with Mantra of Persistance if you have great energy mangement.
dgb
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terra Xin
I dont know why noone likes conjure nightmare... It works well against turtles and monks with regen skills.
Because it's 8 degen for 25 energy.
Conjure Phantasm is 5 degen for 10 energy.
If you think an extra 3 pips of degen is worth 15 energy then go nuts - the rest of us will just use efficient skills.
Conjure Phantasm is 5 degen for 10 energy.
If you think an extra 3 pips of degen is worth 15 energy then go nuts - the rest of us will just use efficient skills.
Wretchman Drake
Conjure + Images of Remorse = 9 degen for 15 energy, plus dmg at the end of Images of Remorse. Pwnt
However don't underestimate Conjure Nightmare. Eles with good energy can throw Conjure+Images on one guy, and Nightmare on another, creating a big hassle of health loss for the enemy, but what I like about stacking degen is that you have to remove all the different hexes to stop the degen. Nightmare can be taken care of in no time.
However don't underestimate Conjure Nightmare. Eles with good energy can throw Conjure+Images on one guy, and Nightmare on another, creating a big hassle of health loss for the enemy, but what I like about stacking degen is that you have to remove all the different hexes to stop the degen. Nightmare can be taken care of in no time.
Terra Xin
Phantasm & images of remorse vs nightmare match out equally actually... life wise (both drain a total of 192 HP overall) but when faced with the conditional 44 damage, then the dual combo would win out. In fact it takes "2act + interval between castings" to cast both hexes... that doesnt make much of a diff tho.
Lets take an even look at Nightmare vs Phantasm. All stats following assume lvl12 illusion magic with hexes running until completion (12 seconds)
192 HP drained for Nightmare
120 HP drained for Phantasm (diff 72HP)
100/120*72=60 (ignore this unless you know what you're looking at... backtracking purposes)
...when cunjure phantasm is cast 1.6 times (I know you cant cast the spell 1.6 times, dont bring it up please...)
Drain 192HP
Energy 24
Casting time - 1.6
Recharge time - 8 + recasting
vs Nightmare
Drain 192HP
Energy 25
Casting time - 1
Recharge time - 5
So like there's a difference of 1 energy... big whoop. And 3 extra pips is worth an extra 10 energy, (3 energy per pip + 1) not 15.
But yeah Drake's 5-less energy combo would win out. Still...
Lets take an even look at Nightmare vs Phantasm. All stats following assume lvl12 illusion magic with hexes running until completion (12 seconds)
192 HP drained for Nightmare
120 HP drained for Phantasm (diff 72HP)
100/120*72=60 (ignore this unless you know what you're looking at... backtracking purposes)
...when cunjure phantasm is cast 1.6 times (I know you cant cast the spell 1.6 times, dont bring it up please...)
Drain 192HP
Energy 24
Casting time - 1.6
Recharge time - 8 + recasting
vs Nightmare
Drain 192HP
Energy 25
Casting time - 1
Recharge time - 5
So like there's a difference of 1 energy... big whoop. And 3 extra pips is worth an extra 10 energy, (3 energy per pip + 1) not 15.
But yeah Drake's 5-less energy combo would win out. Still...
Hella Good
^^^^
I have no idea what you said.
But I kinda get the feeling you're not liking Conjure Nightmare, so that's all I need to know. 
Yea, the skill is horrible. IoR does 5 degen at like 14 Illusion, I know he wants a Necro primary but just pointing out that CPhantasm + IoR = max degen. Both have 5 sec cooldown, so... that's about all I need for my degen needs, dunno bout you guys.
I have no idea what you said.
But I kinda get the feeling you're not liking Conjure Nightmare, so that's all I need to know. Yea, the skill is horrible. IoR does 5 degen at like 14 Illusion, I know he wants a Necro primary but just pointing out that CPhantasm + IoR = max degen. Both have 5 sec cooldown, so... that's about all I need for my degen needs, dunno bout you guys.
Wretchman Drake
Anyways, back to topic... /=)
Terra Xin
Posting about back to topic is still off topic, lol... your hat is crooked |=)... j/k^^
Degen builds are tough... Factions will make up for it by giving mesmers some more hex removals. Expel hexes ftw!
Err (hates energy tap) it's like a 3 second "oh no" before a split second "horrah!" before you waste it in a single spell... and then it's like "oh man" for 4 seconds.
Degen builds are tough... Factions will make up for it by giving mesmers some more hex removals. Expel hexes ftw!
Err (hates energy tap) it's like a 3 second "oh no" before a split second "horrah!" before you waste it in a single spell... and then it's like "oh man" for 4 seconds.
NatalieD
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wretchman Drake
Inspiration is only at 9... Drain Enchantment would either make me lose even more energy or make no change. Energy Tap it is.
Unless Guildwiki is lying to me, Drain Enchantment provides the same net energy as Energy Tap at Inspiration 9. Plus it cycles slightly faster, and removing an enchantment is generally lot more useful than denying 6 energy.
Terra Xin
Quote:
Originally Posted by NatalieD
Unless Guildwiki is lying to me, Drain Enchantment provides the same net energy as Energy Tap at Inspiration 9. Plus it cycles slightly faster, and removing an enchantment is generally lot more useful than denying 6 energy.
yes you are right. In addition, energy tap takes 3 secs to cast, in comparison to 1 sec drain.
when you go through all of the energy gains, they still come out even.
Energy tap... now in 3 seconds you could have self regenerated 3.3 energy
good thing about ether tap, it only has one condition to use it.
when you go through all of the energy gains, they still come out even.
Energy tap... now in 3 seconds you could have self regenerated 3.3 energy
good thing about ether tap, it only has one condition to use it.
Gregos Nielsen
Why not use Migraine instead of Crippling Anguish since both have same duration at 16. Is it because of the casting time?
Avarre
Waaaait, you can't get 5 degen on remorse with max illu? :/
I don't like degen, but this is ok because you can toss snares and faintheart on wars and degen on casters, providing some decent pressure.
For energy maintaining... I'd go with power drain, net 14 (double the net of drain enchant or energy tap) and provides a minor counter to casters (since wars and rangers are hampered by faint and crippling).
I don't like degen, but this is ok because you can toss snares and faintheart on wars and degen on casters, providing some decent pressure.
For energy maintaining... I'd go with power drain, net 14 (double the net of drain enchant or energy tap) and provides a minor counter to casters (since wars and rangers are hampered by faint and crippling).
Terra Xin
noone in this thread said you 'could' degen -5... what are you talking about?
Power drain is a good spell... but you need a bit of skill... if you miss your target then thats a long recharge time you get penalised for.
Power drain is a good spell... but you need a bit of skill... if you miss your target then thats a long recharge time you get penalised for.
Avarre
Quote:
Um... power drain is good but you need skill? That is kinda the point of bringing it, no? Condering it gives anti-caster capabilities beyond straight degen, I don't see why you wouldn't bring it in favor of drain enchant, especially as the build is one you have time to watch targets for spells.
What if...
If were considering improving the build using factions skills, why not use mantra of persistance and Illusion of Pain? I realize the healing at the end of the duration is a pain, but I read somewhere that a target can only last a short while with max degen (20 seconds?). So, you could apply PP and wait for the deep wound to kick in an then drop Illusion of Pain to add pressure. Combine it, perhaps, with Feast of Corruption or Soul Barbs to finish the job before the end of IOP's duration and its GG. This might be kind of fragile and more a spike than degen, though.
Hella Good
Problem is some1 can remove the IoP. It is better to focus on fairly spammable relatively low cost hexes (Conjure/IoR) that will still give max degen, can be spread around, can be reapplied if needed, don't have any negative drawbacks. Mantra of Persistance makes IoR last quite awhile and makes it extremely cost efficient and effective.
Eaimirth Etaivella
At the moment; ignoring retriggering hexes (ss, empathy, backfire) images of remorse is the most energy efficient spell in the game. It would be a shame not to abuse it.
Wretchman Drake
After finally playtesting this build, I've made it more effective with the Additions of Migraine and Mantra of Persistence and stacking Migraine and Conjure Phantasm on a target will really make them wither away with no hex removal. Plus with Migraine it adds some pressure to your target.
I've playtested and it works great in RA especially, and could be useful in TA. It's good to put Migraine on a tired out monk later in battle along with Conjure Phantasm that each well last longer than 20 seconds.
I've playtested and it works great in RA especially, and could be useful in TA. It's good to put Migraine on a tired out monk later in battle along with Conjure Phantasm that each well last longer than 20 seconds.
Gregos Nielsen
Hmm, have you tried this build in PvE? If you did, how well does it perform?
Wretchman Drake
I haven't but I use a Degen N/Me with LT and Conjure and it works fine. This build should work fine as well but not as good since my Degen N/Me has Life Transfer and Life Siphon for healing, in this build only Ether Feast will help. So unless you don't have a monk, this build should work great in PvE.
Cymboric Treewalker
Energy Tap -- requires only that they target has energy...
Drain Enchant -- requires the target to have an enchantment...
most reliable energy management of those two is Tap.
Drain Enchant -- requires the target to have an enchantment...
most reliable energy management of those two is Tap.
Valkyries
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cymboric Treewalker
Energy Tap -- requires only that they target has energy...
Drain Enchant -- requires the target to have an enchantment...
most reliable energy management of those two is Tap. I can't say I really agree. I mean, for sure I see your point. However, how often in PVP do someone NOT have an enchantment? Its much more useful to strip someone's enchant than to make them loose just a couple of energy.
I play with Drain Enchantment a ton, and I have played with Energy tap quite a bit as well. I prefer the DE, because I always find someone to use it on, especially in HA/GVG. Energy Tap maybe a preference in RA/TA but even then I find DE still really powerful. The overall skill of what it does is just simply better. The best part about energy tap is the 5 E cost. The 3 second cast though really is a bit of a pain and a lot of times it can just get intrupted and be a burden where as DE Is lightning fast and no one is stopping that from happening.
Drain Enchant -- requires the target to have an enchantment...
most reliable energy management of those two is Tap. I can't say I really agree. I mean, for sure I see your point. However, how often in PVP do someone NOT have an enchantment? Its much more useful to strip someone's enchant than to make them loose just a couple of energy.
I play with Drain Enchantment a ton, and I have played with Energy tap quite a bit as well. I prefer the DE, because I always find someone to use it on, especially in HA/GVG. Energy Tap maybe a preference in RA/TA but even then I find DE still really powerful. The overall skill of what it does is just simply better. The best part about energy tap is the 5 E cost. The 3 second cast though really is a bit of a pain and a lot of times it can just get intrupted and be a burden where as DE Is lightning fast and no one is stopping that from happening.
Wretchman Drake
Finaly I was able to update this build. This build should work quite well, and give you a reason to do Primary Mesmers. Good luck and have fun with it.
Dragannia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wretchman Drake
After finally playtesting this build, I've made it more effective with the Additions of Migraine and Mantra of Persistence and stacking Migraine and Conjure Phantasm on a target will really make them wither away with no hex removal. Plus with Migraine it adds some pressure to your target.
I've playtested and it works great in RA especially, and could be useful in TA. It's good to put Migraine on a tired out monk later in battle along with Conjure Phantasm that each well last longer than 20 seconds. Crippling Anguish would be better for Degen purposes; slowdown is a very powerful effect.
I've playtested and it works great in RA especially, and could be useful in TA. It's good to put Migraine on a tired out monk later in battle along with Conjure Phantasm that each well last longer than 20 seconds. Crippling Anguish would be better for Degen purposes; slowdown is a very powerful effect.
Wretchman Drake
Yes but Migraine just simply puts more pressure on the caster and you will most likely be casting it on a caster, a cripple is no big deal if you have no melee guys...